Western Kaiju Canon

[Jetty_Jags]

I know this post will be controversial just as is but screw it. As I've made known elsewhere on the forum, I just watched Gorgo for the first time, and while it's got some highs and lows, it certainly feels like many of the Japanese kaiju flicks. So, what other flicks would we put in a hypothetical western Kaiju canon. Would that just be any western giant creature feature, I'm not so convinced, even if I can't fully articulate my personal distinction between Kaiju and non-kaiju (although I have certainly tried). Some popular contenders usually include Beast from 20k, Reptillicus, some even suggest the giant claw fits. So if you could make a western Kaiju canon, what would yours include and why?

[Vakanai]

Technically by the Japanese definition of kaiju all the giant monster movies of the west would fit and I'd think most Japanese would count them as such. It's a lot like how anime fans here in the West go on and on about how only animation from Japan is anime and blah blah blah when Japanese people have never really cared and the word just means cartoons to them and The Simpsons and Spongebob is considered anime by most Japanese because again just a word for cartoon there traditionally.

Going by our western fan too serious debate over silly things mind set however, most giant monster movies don't fit the kaiju umbrella by our arbitrary made up beliefs. Certainly most of them don't *feel* like kaiju movies. Assuming one doesn't go by the belief that only the Japanese can make kaiju films, then I'd list the usual suspects of King Kong, Beast from 20k, Behemoth, Reptillicus, Gorgo, and probably 20 Million to Earth. But I'd also list one most tend to dismiss - The Deadly Mantis. Of all the giant insect movies like THEM! and Black Scorpion that might be more loved (especially THEM), The Deadly Mantis to me is the one giant insect film that most feels like and plays out like a kaiju movie in my opinion.

[SpiderZilla]

Assuming one doesn't go by the belief that only the Japanese can make kaiju films, then I'd list the usual suspects of King Kong, Beast from 20k, Behemoth, Reptillicus, Gorgo, and probably 20 Million to Earth. But I'd also list one most tend to dismiss - The Deadly Mantis. Of all the giant insect movies like THEM! and Black Scorpion that might be more loved (especially THEM), The Deadly Mantis to me is the one giant insect film that most feels like and plays out like a kaiju movie in my opinion.

Can you elaborate on why you consider The Deadly Mantis to be closer to a kaiju film than The Black Scorpion? In my opinion, the final battle against the Black Scorpion requires more ingenuity than the Deadly Mantis which I think is typical (but not a requirement) of kaiju films.

[edgaguirus]

I watched The Black Scorpion last night, and I would consider it in the kaiju umbrella if we can also put the big mantis there. The scorpion is not only giant but was also tanking everything being fired at it. It also took a specially made weapon and a lucky shot to kill it. It seems like a kaiju to me.

Might we also include the two giant humans- Colossal Man and 5o ft woman?

[SpiderZilla]

Might we also include the two giant humans- Colossal Man and 5o ft woman?

If Toho’s Frankenstein and the Gargantua brothers — who contain human DNA if you believe they arose from Frankenstein’s cells — are considered kaiju then I can’t think of any reason to exclude giant humans in general.

[Jomei]

TeIt's a lot like how anime fans here in the West go on and on about how only animation from Japan is anime and blah blah blah when Japanese people have never really cared and the word just means cartoons to them and The Simpsons and Spongebob is considered anime by most Japanese because again just a word for cartoon there traditionally.

Loan words can change meaning depending on their linguistic context.

For example, even if Japanese still use the word "anime" in a Japanese context to refer to any animation (I'm not sure this is true, and I think they do differentiate between Japanese works and others a lot of the time), the meaning is different in an English context where we already have the words "animation" and "cartoon." In other words, if you're speaking English and say "anime," it has a different and more specific meaning because of the existence of other words in the lexicon (people eventually adopted the Japanese loanword over the neologism "Japanimation"). If someone in the states says they like "anime" and you ask about their favorite Simpsons episode, you're being willfully dense. (Or you don't speak English well.)

Similarly, in an English-speaking context, "kaiju" typically refers to Japanese giant monster works rooted in tokusatsu works from the '50s and '60s. (But "tokusatsu" just mean special effects, so Transformers is a tokusatsu movie, too!!!!! <- says the guy not paying attention)

So while it's not an objective definition, for me, a western work that is clearly heavily influenced by and employing some of the conventions and aesthetics of Japanese kaiju works can be considered at least a cousin of kaiju. Gorgo works for me because it's so clearly drawing from that tradition, and Pacific Rim is another obvious one for both its use of the term, its obvious and explicit inspirations, and its inclusion of Japanese settings and characters.

[Vakanai]

Assuming one doesn't go by the belief that only the Japanese can make kaiju films, then I'd list the usual suspects of King Kong, Beast from 20k, Behemoth, Reptillicus, Gorgo, and probably 20 Million to Earth. But I'd also list one most tend to dismiss - The Deadly Mantis. Of all the giant insect movies like THEM! and Black Scorpion that might be more loved (especially THEM), The Deadly Mantis to me is the one giant insect film that most feels like and plays out like a kaiju movie in my opinion.

Can you elaborate on why you consider The Deadly Mantis to be closer to a kaiju film than The Black Scorpion? In my opinion, the final battle against the Black Scorpion requires more ingenuity than the Deadly Mantis which I think is typical (but not a requirement) of kaiju films.

Because the final battle in The Black Scorpion is about the only kaiju feeling moment in that film to me personally. I know we tend to focus on the battle stuff in this fandom, but that's not all to the kaiju genre. Watching the early kaiju films like Gojira or Gamera there's more of a build up to the creature's reveal, hints and clues and teases before we get to the monster - The Deadly Mantis has this. It also shares more of a scientific discussion and debate and dialog aspect to it vs Black Scorpion that's more common in the earlier kaiju films. There's more effort it feels in trying to get across just how big this thing is cinematically while Scorpion mostly lets the final scene wrecking tanks and stuff get over the fact as opposed to the more camera framing and narrative approach. And there's probably more, but frankly I'd need to rewatch The Black Scorpion again to note other ways why it feels less kaiju-y to me than The Deadly Mantis. I've seen Mantis a few times, Scorpion only once, so that's the best argument my memory can make for right now.

For what it's worth this is in no way a dissing of The Black Scorpion in any way or some knock on the quality of it, it's really just about what catches that "kaiju film" feeling more for me personally, and honestly that's probably more a subjective thing than anything. But while inferior to Gojira, The Deadly Mantis captures a bit more of the feel of it and the first Gamera movie to me in some ways, with the tone and certain other aspects. The way the monster dies is a bit of a letdown in comparison sure, but overall the movie has more of those early solo kaiju rampage film elements to me than a lot of the other big bug movies that are its contemporaries. THEM is probably the objectively better film, The Black Scorpion has the better action/combat scenes, but The Deadly Mantis gives more of that strange ancient terrible beast vibe of Gojira, Rodan, and Gamera films to me.

Added in 3 minutes 18 seconds:

I watched The Black Scorpion last night, and I would consider it in the kaiju umbrella if we can also put the big mantis there. The scorpion is not only giant but was also tanking everything being fired at it. It also took a specially made weapon and a lucky shot to kill it. It seems like a kaiju to me.

Like I said, I was basing my personal feeling more on what the film did and felt like than on the actual monsters. If I'm going by just monster metrics The Black Scorpion is definitely a kaiju, but so is Ghostbuster's Stay Puft Man and I wouldn't call Ghostbusters a kaiju movie. But that is just me and my feelings, I'm no arbiter of what is or isn't a kaiju or kaiju film.

Added in 6 minutes 24 seconds:

TeIt's a lot like how anime fans here in the West go on and on about how only animation from Japan is anime and blah blah blah when Japanese people have never really cared and the word just means cartoons to them and The Simpsons and Spongebob is considered anime by most Japanese because again just a word for cartoon there traditionally.

Loan words can change meaning depending on their linguistic context.

For example, even if Japanese still use the word "anime" in a Japanese context to refer to any animation (I'm not sure this is true, and I think they do differentiate between Japanese works and others a lot of the time), the meaning is different in an English context where we already have the words "animation" and "cartoon." In other words, if you're speaking English and say "anime," it has a different and more specific meaning because of the existence of other words in the lexicon (people eventually adopted the Japanese loanword over the neologism "Japanimation"). If someone in the states says they like "anime" and you ask about their favorite Simpsons episode, you're being willfully dense. (Or you don't speak English well.)

Similarly, in an English-speaking context, "kaiju" typically refers to Japanese giant monster works rooted in tokusatsu works from the '50s and '60s. (But "tokusatsu" just mean special effects, so Transformers is a tokusatsu movie, too!!!!! <- says the guy not paying attention)

So while it's not an objective definition, for me, a western work that is clearly heavily influenced by and employing some of the conventions and aesthetics of Japanese kaiju works can be considered at least a cousin of kaiju. Gorgo works for me because it's so clearly drawing from that tradition, and Pacific Rim is another obvious one for both its use of the term, its obvious and explicit inspirations, and its inclusion of Japanese settings and characters.

While that's true, people are torn on the English context of anime between "made only in Japan" versus "anime style" - hence many arguments over the years on whether or not The Last Airbender is an anime. Similarly in an English speaking context we're still arguing if it's "made only in Japan" or with Legendary "made only with Japanese monsters" or "all giant monsters" and it's one of those fan debates that has non-fans shaking their heads at us for being silly. If anything the definition of anime as a loanword is more settled than kaiju is, so it isn't really that similar a comparison to make at all.

But I take it you're in the camp that if it isn't inspired by the Japanese monsters then it isn't kaiju, hence none of the films discussed in this thread would qualify for you personally?

[mikelcho]

I'd probably do the usual suspects like The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms, Them!, Tarantula, It Came from Beneath the Sea, 20 Million Miles to Earth, etc. But here's one film none of you have probably ever thought of: The Monster that Challenged the World.

And all of us obviously know this fact: in a Western kaiju canon the kaiju are easily killed off by the military (this is especially true in the "monster on the loose" and the "big bug" films of the 1950s, which I'm guessing is being mostly dealt with here when it comes to this thread's subject), while in an Eastern kaiju canon (such as Japan) the military killing off the kaiju is easier said than done after all is said and done.

[Jomei]

Ok, brace for super nerdy, semantic discussion.

While that's true, people are torn on the English context of anime between "made only in Japan" versus "anime style" - hence many arguments over the years on whether or not The Last Airbender is an anime.

You've already answered this argument here, though. Avatar might be in a type of "anime style," but it is not anime. (I would even say there's a better argument that it's a "western shounen" animated series than that it's anime. That may sound silly, but really, that's what it's imitating much more than "anime" style or conventions--it's lifting the setting/story/characterization of shounen manga/anime. Though I could be wrong as I haven't actually watched it!)

Similarly in an English speaking context we're still arguing if it's "made only in Japan" or with Legendary "made only with Japanese monsters" or "all giant monsters" and it's one of those fan debates that has non-fans shaking their heads at us for being silly. If anything the definition of anime as a loanword is more settled than kaiju is, so it isn't really that similar a comparison to make at all.

But I take it you're in the camp that if it isn't inspired by the Japanese monsters then it isn't kaiju, hence none of the films discussed in this thread would qualify for you personally?

Comparisons mean things are similar, not exactly the same. That's... the meaning of the word compare--to note similarity and dissimilarity. And I disagree. The kaiju and anime cases are quite similar--with a couple distinctions.

I agree "anime" is much more settled, so I'm glad we're on the same page there. Avatar is not anime, and in fact we have a category you already mentioned--"anime style." (Questionable IMO since anime isn't one style, but I think there's reason to note its influence.)

The thing is with kaiju, we have more perplexing cases like the Legendary films which are explicitly Godzilla, who is a kaiju, and supported by Toho, and of course 100% inspired by the Japanese original. So do we not call that kaiju because it's not Japanese? (Same predicament with Pacific Rim) This is why I think it's ok to call the monsters in these movies kaiju and discuss these films within a western "kaiju canon" if we're going to do that. The question is about how closely descended they are and connected to the Japanese tradition. This is just my personal definition, of course, but I think it's a reasonable one.

To return to anime, the tougher test case would be if, for example, a western animation studio got the rights to do, let's say, a Cowboy Bebop animated film endorsed by Shinichiro Watanabe. That's essentially the situation with Legendary and to a degree Pacific Rim. They push the boundaries of the definitions. So people might then ask, well, why isn't NOPE a kaiju movie? Or isn't Alien kind of one in the way Matango is?!

But to use the "reductio ad absurdum" argument against the broader application, as some have pointed out, by that framework Clifford the Big Red Dog could arguably be a "kaiju." So, by seeing the absurdity of that conclusion, we can note that the reasoning leading up to that is flawed (we've gotten a definition wrong or something) and trace it back to a more reasonable compromise point, which is what I'm arguing for. [/rant]

[Vakanai]

Ok, brace for super nerdy, semantic discussion.

While that's true, people are torn on the English context of anime between "made only in Japan" versus "anime style" - hence many arguments over the years on whether or not The Last Airbender is an anime.

You've already answered this argument here, though. Avatar might be in a type of "anime style," but it is not anime. (I would even say there's a better argument that it's a "western shounen" animated series than that it's anime. That may sound silly, but really, that's what it's imitating much more than "anime" style or conventions--it's lifting the setting/story/characterization of shounen manga/anime. Though I could be wrong as I haven't actually watched it!)

Similarly in an English speaking context we're still arguing if it's "made only in Japan" or with Legendary "made only with Japanese monsters" or "all giant monsters" and it's one of those fan debates that has non-fans shaking their heads at us for being silly. If anything the definition of anime as a loanword is more settled than kaiju is, so it isn't really that similar a comparison to make at all.

But I take it you're in the camp that if it isn't inspired by the Japanese monsters then it isn't kaiju, hence none of the films discussed in this thread would qualify for you personally?

Comparisons mean things are similar, not exactly the same. That's... the meaning of the word compare--to note similarity and dissimilarity. And I disagree. The kaiju and anime cases are quite similar--with a couple distinctions.

I agree "anime" is much more settled, so I'm glad we're on the same page there. Avatar is not anime, and in fact we have a category you already mentioned--"anime style." (Questionable IMO since anime isn't one style, but I think there's reason to note its influence.)

The thing is with kaiju, we have more perplexing cases like the Legendary films which are explicitly Godzilla, who is a kaiju, and supported by Toho, and of course 100% inspired by the Japanese original. So do we not call that kaiju because it's not Japanese? (Same predicament with Pacific Rim) This is why I think it's ok to call the monsters in these movies kaiju and discuss these films within a western "kaiju canon" if we're going to do that. The question is about how closely descended they are and connected to the Japanese tradition. This is just my personal definition, of course, but I think it's a reasonable one.

To return to anime, the tougher test case would be if, for example, a western animation studio got the rights to do, let's say, a Cowboy Bebop animated film endorsed by Shinichiro Watanabe. That's essentially the situation with Legendary and to a degree Pacific Rim. They push the boundaries of the definitions. So people might then ask, well, why isn't NOPE a kaiju movie? Or isn't Alien kind of one in the way Matango is?!

But to use the "reductio ad absurdum" argument against the broader application, as some have pointed out, by that framework Clifford the Big Red Dog could arguably be a "kaiju." So, by seeing the absurdity of that conclusion, we can note that the reasoning leading up to that is flawed (we've gotten a definition wrong or something) and trace it back to a more reasonable compromise point, which is what I'm arguing for. [/rant]

I'm going to stop you there - I hate arguments and debates over semantics above all other things. It's really just the most annoying, unenjoyable, pain in the ass thing to discuss and I loathe it deep down, and people who engage deeply over it baffle me and we tend to just not get along in most things, and the more I try to engage in these semantics arguments the more I hate those kinds of people who seem big into it. So if it's about words and definitions I'm gonna duck the heck out.

[Jomei]

So if it's about words and definitions I'm gonna duck the heck out.

Technically by the Japanese definition of kaiju...

But I totally understand not wanting to get into a long back-and-forth, and I think I've said it all at length already, so peace.

[Vakanai]

So if it's about words and definitions I'm gonna duck the heck out.

Technically by the Japanese definition of kaiju...

But I totally understand not wanting to get into a long back-and-forth, and I think I've said it all at length already, so peace.

It's the long back-and-forth yes. I'm fine using words and definitions to clarify my point, but F doing these debates about it, have had far too many of them and they're always the worst. Thanks for understanding.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Here's somnething that is semi-related but thinking about often:

How do we feel/think about Japanese/Godzilla films that are dubiously American. I may sound crazy, and of course I'm not interested in removing Godzilla's Japanese identity, but it's interesting to consider various interesting production factors in a few of the Godzilla films. It'll make sense what I'm getting at when I list them out:

Invasion of the Astro Monster, Frankenstien vs. Baragon, and War of the Gargauntuas were all partially produced and funded by Henry G. Saperstien. Based on a few specific things that were cut and added, like the Giant Octopus ending in Frankenstien vs Baragon, it can be assumed that Saperstien had some sway. According to various sources, he's the one that approached Toho and also helped introduce Nick Adams and Russ Tamblyn to work on these films. The latter two films feature Frankenstien, a pre-existing non-Japanese monster. Yet, many people, myself included, would include these films as some of the best and genre defining productions.

Similar circumstances occur with King Kong vs. Godzilla, King Kong Escapes, and other projects Rank/Bass had some influence on. In other words, the Saperstien stuff isn't an isolated incident, it happened with another company.

As recently revealed, Son of Godzilla had sections of it filmed in Guam. At the time it was filmed, Guam was a US territory. This due to a technicality makes it a Godzilla film with substantial filming outside of Japan, although where the film actually takes place, other than Solgell, is actually ambigious.

It's not just Godzilla and Toho stuff though. There's a few other "weird" examples, with the same weird production things. For example:
-The Green Slime, filmed in japan with a japanese director, but primarily had non-Japanese actors and was written by American writers.
-Last Dinosaur, while more of an SF film, it's a Rankin/Bass Tsubaraya Co-Production that features monsters and action.
-While the deal/aspects fell through, originally Mothra 1961 was supposed to have some more involvement by Columbia pictures. Likewise, Mothra vs. Godzilla had scenes filmed for American distribution that were cut/absent from final Japanese movies.

What I'm getting at with all this is:

The Saperstien stuff is more important than the SoG thing, but the point I'm trying to make is that if you consider Legendary's Godzilla films not kaiju/Japanese related/adjacent, than ask yourself if the Saperstien involved kaiju films are Japanese kaiju flicks.

[edgaguirus]

I'd probably do the usual suspects like The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms, Them!, Tarantula, It Came from Beneath the Sea, 20 Million Miles to Earth, etc. But here's one film none of you have probably ever thought of: The Monster that Challenged the World.

Ultra Q had episodes featuring huge mollusks, so the American version would certainly qualify.

[Jetty_Jags]

To throw my few cents in I’ve never been partial to geography being a legitimate definition of genre. So for me, either anime can be described by some inherent qualities to the medium, or it’s not a distinct genre/style/ or medium. So while I’d be ok that kaiju flicks are defined by some influence of Japanese media (I’d also accept unintentional replicated similarities), I would not say Japanese or eastern origin is important.

[Jomei]

To throw my few cents in I’ve never been partial to geography being a legitimate definition of genre.

Geography is a defining element of many things, though. Scotch to Scotland, Bourbon to Kentucky, etc. That's why, for example, Japanese whiskey is highly influenced by Scotch but strictly speaking isn't Scotch--either in name or flavor profile, though the influence is apparent (see: Avatar TLAB). It's when you remove the geographical meaning that you wind up with highly confused concepts like "wagyu" that really isn't.

Plus, artistic movements have often been both historically and regionally defined. French New Wave cinema, for example. American transcendentalism. "Korean drama," which is an idea parallel to "anime." There's nothing definitionally distinct about Korean live action TV, but because of the development of a regional scene with some stylistic conventions and commonalities, it emerges as something of its own genre. Like anime, it's diverse enough to push at any attempts to bound this by specific conventions (and maybe even geography, as you're saying), but nevertheless the social perception that there's something there there persists. And I don't think it's imaginary: that Japanese anime is produced in a specific context for a specific subset of Japanese people is what gives it a distinct character.

So while I’d be ok that kaiju flicks are defined by some influence of Japanese media (I’d also accept unintentional replicated similarities), I would not say Japanese or eastern origin is important.

We're close to the same page, but I'd just reverse these points. Japanese origin (not just eastern) is defining to be true "kaiju eiga," but I think it makes sense to have a branch of that (maybe as this thread poses, "western kaiju" works, specifically using the modifier there to differentiate) for things clearly descended from the Japanese context.

One important difference is that between anime and "kaiju" works, anime is a much broader category. So if an American movie imitates Japanese "kaiju," the range of tropes and monster types to draw from is much narrower, resulting in something that more effectively mirrors the genre. Anime, being much broader, actually encompasses a lot more various sub-genres and aesthetics, so there really one clear "anime style." That's why I said earlier that Avatar TLAB might be better classed as a Shonen Jump-inspired western cartoon rather than calling it "anime style."

Anyway, language is tricky. My tl;dr version is just to reiterate that I think the best soft line to draw would be, "Is it clearly a descendant of Japanese kaiju works?" With Pacific Rim, Legendary Monsterverse, Gorgo, etc. the answer to me is obviously yes. Some others are more grey area, but they merit consideration. (And of course, I'd also be open to the idea of including the western works that themselves influenced the beginning of the kaiju genre, such as King Kong and The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms.)

[mikelcho]

I'd probably do the usual suspects like The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms, Them!, Tarantula, It Came from Beneath the Sea, 20 Million Miles to Earth, etc. But here's one film none of you have probably ever thought of: The Monster that Challenged the World.

Ultra Q had episodes featuring huge mollusks, so the American version would certainly qualify.

What do you guys and gals think about this film: Monster from Green Hell? Would that possibly fit in?

[UltramanGoji]

For me, the two big attributes of the kaiju genre are:

• Kaiju productions are of Japanese origin or take some degree of influence from Japanese productions.

• Kaiju have unique identities and/or personalities that make them stand out from other large-sized menaces.

Like Jomei's discussion says, there's a reason we use a Japanese loan word to describe the genre. Filmmakers from Japan have a distinct approach and style to making giant monster movies, usually seen in the depiction of the kaiju and their relationships to humanity. Humanity in kaiju films is exponentially more cooperative and unified, with the kaiju nearly always act as a sort of...punishment, I guess is the best word to describe? Kaiju in Japanese productions tend to be treated like old gods, huge beings of nature's wrath that are nigh-impossible to defeat without significant cooperation in either developing unique countermeasure technology or through a battle with another that can match their prowess, i.e. another kaiju.

The second point also takes into consideration kaiju whose media of origin may not really depict them in the most "kaiju-like" light, but their design attributes and visual personality can probably see them slot in with others. For example, I would say that Reptilicus is a kaiju, but Reptilicus (1961) may not qualify as a kaiju film.

But to answer the initial question, what would be a quantifiable Western kaiju canon, my picks would be:

- King Kong '33 (by definition, not particularly a kaiju film, but undeniable important to the genre's history and Kong himself is a "legacy" kaiju)
- The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms (see above)
- Gorgo
- Godzilla '98
- Kraa! The Sea Monster
- Zarkorr! The Invader
- Cloverfield
- Pacific Rim
- MonsterVerse films
- Colossal
- Rampage

[edgaguirus]

Much of what we'd call a western kaiju comes down to personal opinion, but let's put that aside for the moment. Western film has its own style and standards, so what monsters would fit a kaiju by western standards? If we look at Kong, Beast, Rampage, and others, there are some similarities.
- Size: Jaws is a big fish, but not much that much bigger than a normal Great White. Kong's size changes film to film, but in his first film, and probably his smallest size, he's at least 6 times larger than a normal gorilla. This would also make the big bugs kaiju as well. The ants in THEM were 9 ft (if I remember right) at most, while the huge Tarantula was advertised at 100 ft. The same would go big humans like the Colossal Man.
- Danger level: Some monsters are more dangerous than others. The Giant Claw is a nearly indestructible bird that preys on everything that moves. The Behemoth projects waves of radiation that kills anyone nearby. Reptilicus has poison spit. These monsters, like Eastern kaiju, possess weapons capable of killing beyond tooth and claw.
- Hardness to kill: The Black Scorpion has already been mentioned in this aspect. Its exoskeleton stopped tank shells. We could also look at Kronos, which was hit by an atomic bomb and walked away stronger than ever. Some of these beasts required specialized and highly inventive weapons, or shots that were very lucky.

You might not agree with these, but these are some of the Western attributes I would say mark a Western kaiju film.

[Follinollante]

Like Jomei's discussion says, there's a reason we use a Japanese loan word to describe the genre.

But but but, don't the Japanese use English loanwords as umbrella terms? As mentioned somewhere above, they call any cartoon "anime." To them, if it's an animation, it's an animation.

Not that I would call any monster a kaiju; my instinct is to call it a kaiju if it's very big but not just a big animal.