Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
And then you have Titanosaurus dancing on Godzilla's "grave."
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
In another thread someone said this film has a triumphant ending. Here's the plot in a nutshell...
Terror of Mechagodzilla is the story of a professionally disgraced, widowed old man and his young, innocent daughter who fall in with a bunch of manipulative aliens that couldn't give a shit about either of them. They trick the man into using a dinosaur that he discovered as part of their conquest mission, caring little about what happens to it. Then they turn the daughter into a cyborg (after possibly being the one's to electrocute her in the first place) and use the fact that they saved her to manipulate the man into sticking with them. Then, when she shows weakness after falling in love, they put a killer, unstoppable robot's controls inside of her and warp her further. When shit hits the fan the alien leader uses the man as a human shield and he dies right in front of his crying daughter, who then has to kill herself while being cradled in the arms of the man who loves her. The protagonists carry her body outside and sadly watch a big lizard swim away.
To me nothing about this ending is triumphant. Hell, Ichinose is probably going to have emotional scars for the rest of his life.
Terror of Mechagodzilla is the story of a professionally disgraced, widowed old man and his young, innocent daughter who fall in with a bunch of manipulative aliens that couldn't give a shit about either of them. They trick the man into using a dinosaur that he discovered as part of their conquest mission, caring little about what happens to it. Then they turn the daughter into a cyborg (after possibly being the one's to electrocute her in the first place) and use the fact that they saved her to manipulate the man into sticking with them. Then, when she shows weakness after falling in love, they put a killer, unstoppable robot's controls inside of her and warp her further. When shit hits the fan the alien leader uses the man as a human shield and he dies right in front of his crying daughter, who then has to kill herself while being cradled in the arms of the man who loves her. The protagonists carry her body outside and sadly watch a big lizard swim away.
To me nothing about this ending is triumphant. Hell, Ichinose is probably going to have emotional scars for the rest of his life.
Last edited by Legion1979 on Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
You’re forgetting the mechanical engineers who managed to build a sonic weapon and integrate it to a helicopter in time for it to be used in the climactic battle. I bet they were pretty pleased with themselves!
But I agree with your points. I would add that Ichinose was the only person who could have physically stopped Katsura’s suicide attempt. He said he wouldn’t destroy her, but did that mean he didn’t want her to die? Perhaps he was only refusing to be the one to pull the trigger.
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
The staging is rough but I don't think he even realized she was she reaching for the gun and was going to shoot herself.
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
In the US version it was a bitter-sweet ending even if the editing was janky.
I don't think Ichose could see Katsura taking up the gun.
I don't think Ichose could see Katsura taking up the gun.
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
The US version completely KILLS the ending of the movie.
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
Killed ending or not it was the version I grew up with for over twenty years or so. So it was certainly a shocker when I learned what was cut out but certainly suddenly made sense.
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
I think the scene can be interpreted either way. Look at the dialog (per the English subtitles):Legion1979 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:49 pm The staging is rough but I don't think he even realized she was she reaching for the gun and was going to shoot herself.
“Please destroy me! They planted MechaGodzilla’s controller inside me! So if you destroy me --”
“Are you crazy? I can’t do that!”
Consider his response. He doesn’t say SHE can’t do that. He doesn’t beg her to find another way. His only objection is that HE can’t do that.
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
Perhaps he thought she couldn't self-terminate?
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
In the heat of the moment, would he really have thought through all the possibilities, and be extra precise about his syntax?
No, I suppose there's nothing in the movie that explicitly rules out the possibility of his considering that she might immediately kill herself, but there's nothing to suggest he does consider it, and I don't see how "he knowingly allows her to kill herself" suits the story or the characterization.
No, I suppose there's nothing in the movie that explicitly rules out the possibility of his considering that she might immediately kill herself, but there's nothing to suggest he does consider it, and I don't see how "he knowingly allows her to kill herself" suits the story or the characterization.
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
I’m not saying it must have been written this way, but in terms of fitting my possible interpretation of the scene into the existing story and characterization I see it going something like this (pardon my penchant for story-telling):eabaker wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:39 am No, I suppose there's nothing in the movie that explicitly rules out the possibility of his considering that she might immediately kill herself, but there's nothing to suggest he does consider it, and I don't see how "he knowingly allows her to kill herself" suits the story or the characterization.
Godzilla knows that MG is a tough opponent. Godzilla has tried everything but MG seems unstoppable. So he goes for the only remaining attack that worked in the past – ripping off MG’s head. But it turns out that MG has a second head! Godzilla stares in disbelief. He is out of options.
Katsura reveals the only remaining option to stop MG and the alien invaders – destroy her and MG will be defenseless. Ichinose realizes in that moment that her plan is the only hope that humanity has left but he loves her too much to go through with it. Even if he does sense her reaching for the gun, he knows that she is doing the right thing. Having served her father and the alien invaders up until now, this final selfless act will redeem her. He buries his head because he can’t bear to watch what is about to come.
As Katsura lies dying in Ichinose’s arms he doesn’t cry out “why” or “no” because he knew there was no other way. Instead he only calls out her name in grief.
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
Nah.
It's ridiculously clear that it's not something he wants to happen, by anyone's hands. It's also clear Ichinose is in denial. "Even if you're a cyborg, Katsura I still love you!", "You aren't to blame, none of this is your fault" and "You shed tears, you're human." all read as Ichinose trying to rationalize everything away so the two of them can be together. He is vehemently against the idea of killing her, but by the way he's holding her tightly it's clear once again his intent is for the two of them to walk away from this. The music and the way her hand painfully reaches for the gun again makes it clear this is a truly tragic decision that Ichinose isn't prepared for. He calls out her name in shock when she does it.
It's a perfect parallel to the first Godzilla movie. No one wants Serizawa to commit suicide but he does it because he knows it's the only way. It would be far less tragic if it was a decision Ogata acknowledged and agreed with.
I know Godzilla fans love to interpret things and feel they have free reign to do so, but I don't think for a second this scene is open to interpretation.
It's ridiculously clear that it's not something he wants to happen, by anyone's hands. It's also clear Ichinose is in denial. "Even if you're a cyborg, Katsura I still love you!", "You aren't to blame, none of this is your fault" and "You shed tears, you're human." all read as Ichinose trying to rationalize everything away so the two of them can be together. He is vehemently against the idea of killing her, but by the way he's holding her tightly it's clear once again his intent is for the two of them to walk away from this. The music and the way her hand painfully reaches for the gun again makes it clear this is a truly tragic decision that Ichinose isn't prepared for. He calls out her name in shock when she does it.
It's a perfect parallel to the first Godzilla movie. No one wants Serizawa to commit suicide but he does it because he knows it's the only way. It would be far less tragic if it was a decision Ogata acknowledged and agreed with.
I know Godzilla fans love to interpret things and feel they have free reign to do so, but I don't think for a second this scene is open to interpretation.
Last edited by Legion1979 on Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
I agree that it’s a parallel but it’s not a perfect parallel. If Ogata had agreed with Serizawa‘s plan it would seem self-serving since it eliminates his romantic rival. Ichinose allowing the woman he loves to take her own life to save the world would be in my opinion a far more tragic ending than if he was caught unawares.Legion1979 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:05 am It's a perfect parallel to the first Godzilla movie. No one wants Serizawa to commit suicide but he does it because he knows it's the only way. It would be far less tragic if it was a decision Ogata acknowledged and agreed with.
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
Watching the scene, I see Ichinose as never expecting it. He's aware of what she is but doesn't care. All he can see is the woman he loves, and that makes Katsura's brave choice a shock to him.
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
I would say, if we have to parse degrees of tragedy, that his being unprepared for it hits incrementally harder.SpiderZilla wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:48 amI agree that it’s a parallel but it’s not a perfect parallel. If Ogata had agreed with Serizawa‘s plan it would seem self-serving since it eliminates his romantic rival. Ichinose allowing the woman he loves to take her own life to save the world would be in my opinion a far more tragic ending than if he was caught unawares.Legion1979 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:05 am It's a perfect parallel to the first Godzilla movie. No one wants Serizawa to commit suicide but he does it because he knows it's the only way. It would be far less tragic if it was a decision Ogata acknowledged and agreed with.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
And at least in Godzilla, Ogata and Emiko can at least be together. What does Ichinose have when this movie ends?
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
Um um um Ichose has other woman!
I honestly never got an impression of her pining for him. When she was sneaking up on Ichose and Katsura at the restaurant it seemed a bit gossipy, maybe even sisterly in a way. 'Ooooh he's got a girlfriend?'
I honestly never got an impression of her pining for him. When she was sneaking up on Ichose and Katsura at the restaurant it seemed a bit gossipy, maybe even sisterly in a way. 'Ooooh he's got a girlfriend?'
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
I agree. What’s her character’s name? Yuri? Yuri seemed quite pleased to see Ichinose on a lunch date with another woman so whatever her motivation was for approaching their table she did not show any indication of being romantically interested in him. Her facial expression changed as she got close to the table but that seemed to be more about Ichinose divulging sensitive information about the ultrasonic weapon than the identity of who he was sitting with.daveblackeye15 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:19 am Um um um Ichose has other woman!
I honestly never got an impression of her pining for him. When she was sneaking up on Ichose and Katsura at the restaurant it seemed a bit gossipy, maybe even sisterly in a way. 'Ooooh he's got a girlfriend?'
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
All right, launching a rewatch of this movie now, subbed, courtesy of the Criterion Blu-ray. My last viewing was in 2015, and under imperfect circumstances. I was babysitting a puppy with a small bladder and kept getting interrupted. I also was seeing it subbed for the first time, and had very little experience with subbed kaiju movies, so the awkward unfamiliarity factor distracted me and I walked away underwhelmed. I also hadn't seen GvMG in forever; I watched it again semi-recently and it's still fresh in my mind, so I'll be able to compare them a little bit this time. Looking forward to doing an informed reassessment...
EDIT: Man, Ifukube killed it with that opening theme. Paying attention this time, I can definitely pick up on the grim, fearful, foreboding tone everyone talks about with this movie. The horror elements are also fascinating. The organ music during Mafune's backstory, his house being supposedly haunted, crows calling as our heroes investigate. That's a different aesthetic for a Godzilla movie. I like it.
EDIT: The script is definitely a lot more conservative and polished than the sloppy GvMG. Our cast is small and focused. The leads are bringing very solid, engaging performances. Tomoko Ai, especially, strikes a great balance between coldly graceful, precise cyborg and vulnerable, emotional, conflicted young woman. Her character comes across very effectively as eerie and sad. Honda brought his A-game here, too, as always. This is a very nice looking movie, full of interesting shots and great use of color and light to make everything pop.
EDIT: The budget limitations were sadly apparent in Titanosaurus's initial attack on Tokyo. Just about all of the military equipment footage was stock, and there wasn't much destruction. I do appreciate that they took the opportunity to focus on fleeing civilians, though; it makes this attack feel more dangerous and serious than some of the others. Godzilla's entrance was one of the all time best, and in our post-G14 world, the cutaway as soon as the fight starts was amusing. Guess the movie was ruined right there, huh? Seriously, though, that scene very obviously inspired the one in G14, which is just interesting to see. I love Godzilla's confused, disappointed reaction when Titanosaurus suddenly gives up and leaves.
EDIT: Done. The attack on Tokyo was outstanding, of course. Mechagodzilla blasting away at the buildings with his eye lasers made for some of the coolest shots in the whole franchise, and then the missile/hurricane wind tag-team destruction was very unique. The scene with the two kids in danger was an interesting question mark. Did they live? They called for Godzilla to save them and he appeared on cue, but then there's nothing at all to indicate that he actually saved them. Logically, in fact, there's a good chance he killed them himself, stomping right through the spot where they'd been standing and all. I kind of... don't think the writer intended those kids to have survived. That decision would fit into the movie overall, grim and unforgiving as it was. This is much more of an honest war movie than most in this genre, full of the miserable shades of grey you get in actual conflicts. Godzilla saves the day, but Honda didn't forget where the character came from. He's still a monster.
He's also a total freaking badass. Charging through the All-Out Assault, on fire and still going for it, going apeshit on Mechagodzilla once he gets in close. Epic. Just plain epic. People complain that Mechagodzilla 2 was a downgrade from the original in terms of fighting ability, and he was. MG1 was way more impressive in his own final battle. It really shouldn't be ignored, though, that Godzilla '75 was just on another level than anything we'd seen from him before.
Heck of a movie. It's critically superior to its predecessor all day. I don't know which I enjoyed more, though. GvMG brings a very different vibe, more fun and zany in a lot of ways. They both have a lot to offer, and it's hard to pick between them.
EDIT: Man, Ifukube killed it with that opening theme. Paying attention this time, I can definitely pick up on the grim, fearful, foreboding tone everyone talks about with this movie. The horror elements are also fascinating. The organ music during Mafune's backstory, his house being supposedly haunted, crows calling as our heroes investigate. That's a different aesthetic for a Godzilla movie. I like it.
EDIT: The script is definitely a lot more conservative and polished than the sloppy GvMG. Our cast is small and focused. The leads are bringing very solid, engaging performances. Tomoko Ai, especially, strikes a great balance between coldly graceful, precise cyborg and vulnerable, emotional, conflicted young woman. Her character comes across very effectively as eerie and sad. Honda brought his A-game here, too, as always. This is a very nice looking movie, full of interesting shots and great use of color and light to make everything pop.
EDIT: The budget limitations were sadly apparent in Titanosaurus's initial attack on Tokyo. Just about all of the military equipment footage was stock, and there wasn't much destruction. I do appreciate that they took the opportunity to focus on fleeing civilians, though; it makes this attack feel more dangerous and serious than some of the others. Godzilla's entrance was one of the all time best, and in our post-G14 world, the cutaway as soon as the fight starts was amusing. Guess the movie was ruined right there, huh? Seriously, though, that scene very obviously inspired the one in G14, which is just interesting to see. I love Godzilla's confused, disappointed reaction when Titanosaurus suddenly gives up and leaves.
EDIT: Done. The attack on Tokyo was outstanding, of course. Mechagodzilla blasting away at the buildings with his eye lasers made for some of the coolest shots in the whole franchise, and then the missile/hurricane wind tag-team destruction was very unique. The scene with the two kids in danger was an interesting question mark. Did they live? They called for Godzilla to save them and he appeared on cue, but then there's nothing at all to indicate that he actually saved them. Logically, in fact, there's a good chance he killed them himself, stomping right through the spot where they'd been standing and all. I kind of... don't think the writer intended those kids to have survived. That decision would fit into the movie overall, grim and unforgiving as it was. This is much more of an honest war movie than most in this genre, full of the miserable shades of grey you get in actual conflicts. Godzilla saves the day, but Honda didn't forget where the character came from. He's still a monster.
He's also a total freaking badass. Charging through the All-Out Assault, on fire and still going for it, going apeshit on Mechagodzilla once he gets in close. Epic. Just plain epic. People complain that Mechagodzilla 2 was a downgrade from the original in terms of fighting ability, and he was. MG1 was way more impressive in his own final battle. It really shouldn't be ignored, though, that Godzilla '75 was just on another level than anything we'd seen from him before.
Heck of a movie. It's critically superior to its predecessor all day. I don't know which I enjoyed more, though. GvMG brings a very different vibe, more fun and zany in a lot of ways. They both have a lot to offer, and it's hard to pick between them.
Last edited by JAGzilla on Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:30 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
Speaking of horror elements in this movie, can we talk about Mafune's creepy mute gardener? Of all the random minor characters in the Godzilla series, I think he stands out to me the most. Always gave me the heebie jeebies as a kid.
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and were never really friends.
is best girl, is best boy
and were never really friends.
is best girl, is best boy