Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

For the discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released before 1980.
Post Reply
mikelcho
EDF Instructor
Posts: 2594
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:23 pm

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by mikelcho »

GojiDog wrote:Weird thing about the two Showa Mechagodzilla movies was casting Goro Mutsumi as the lead villain in both films. This is more of an issue for Terror since it came 2nd, but it kind of confused me as a kid. When I saw Terror at age 6, I recognized him from the previous film (might be the first time I ever recognized a Godzilla cast member in a different film), and I thought "Wait...didn't he die last time?".

Do all black hole alien leaders assume the exact same Earth disguise? (Which is my head canon explanation. New leader, same suit/skin/shell/whatever, lol)
Mutsumi was two different aliens in each film. I can't remember what the first alien's name is, but I know he had one (can anyone help me out here?). The second alien's name, I know, was Mugar.

I personally think that the two of them were twin brothers on the Third Planet of the Black Hole and thus assumed a similar look for their human disguises. And yes, I know the appearance of the aliens in Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla did not match the one in Terror of Mechagodzilla (one of the storyline's few major flaws). I don't know why Toho let that happen.

User avatar
G-Matt
Futurian
Posts: 3898
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:10 am
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Contact:

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by G-Matt »

mikelcho wrote:Mutsumi was two different aliens in each film. I can't remember what the first alien's name is, but I know he had one (can anyone help me out here?). The second alien's name, I know, was Mugar.
Mutsumi's character in MG74 was Kuronuma.
G2000 wrote:Rebuild of Evangelion 3.0 + 1.0: You Did (Not) Expect Godzilla, Did You

mikelcho
EDF Instructor
Posts: 2594
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:23 pm

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by mikelcho »

G-Matt wrote:
mikelcho wrote:Mutsumi was two different aliens in each film. I can't remember what the first alien's name is, but I know he had one (can anyone help me out here?). The second alien's name, I know, was Mugar.
Mutsumi's character in MG74 was Kuronuma.
Thank you!

User avatar
Omegazilla
Interpol Agent
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:30 am

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by Omegazilla »

This is another favorite of mine alongside it's sequel. The iconic villain MG was introduced and the movie is full of nice special effects scenes. There are definitely some bad parts that languish too long like the Planet of the Apes ripoff scenes but they don't mess the film up too much. The surprising return of graphic on screen brutality was also a nice touch as it helped to dispel the stigma that Godzilla was only for kids.

User avatar
JAGzilla
Sazer
Posts: 11817
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:45 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by JAGzilla »

Omegazilla wrote:The surprising return of graphic on screen brutality was also a nice touch as it helped to dispel the stigma that Godzilla was only for kids.
?

The previous three movies contained plenty of violence. People being melted by Hedorah, for example, and all the spraying blood as a result of Gigan's saw.
"Stop wars and no more accidents. I guess that's all I can ask." -Akio

User avatar
eabaker
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13758
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by eabaker »

JAGzilla wrote:
Omegazilla wrote:The surprising return of graphic on screen brutality was also a nice touch as it helped to dispel the stigma that Godzilla was only for kids.
?

The previous three movies contained plenty of violence. People being melted by Hedorah, for example, and all the spraying blood as a result of Gigan's saw.
Whereas I wouldn't say the 50s or 60s Toho kaiju films were ever particularly notable for their graphic on screen brutality. This was less a return than a continuation of a contemporary trend.
Last edited by eabaker on Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
Terasawa
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 5841
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by Terasawa »

And anyway, all the Godzilla movies made from 1969 to 1975 were specifically made for a children's film festival, so Godzilla at this point was pretty much exclusively for kids.
寺沢. He/him/his, etc.

User avatar
Omegazilla
Interpol Agent
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:30 am

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by Omegazilla »

Well you guys are all right. The last movies were fairly violent for sure, but felt kid friendly in some areas, especially with GvH. The weird cartoon skits, the silly music. It's like it couldn't decide if it wasn't to be kid friendly or not. One moment we see a silly cartoon and then next scene we see relatively graphic violence. That movie is a mess. GvG was definitely darker and more serious but the amusement park setting just gave me the impression of trying to keep the kids interested. GvMG did not have any of that stuff. The angry simian aliens (I remember childhood friends freaking out at that LOL), the constant graphic violence, and overall serious tone doesn't look like it tried to appeal to kids like the previous movies. Only thing I could see remotely being made with kids in mind was that overly long King Caesar song. I'm not saying you guys are wrong, I am just saying what vibes I got from those movies.

GojiDog
G-Grasper
Posts: 1223
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by GojiDog »

I think it might be a cultural difference.

I could be wrong, but maybe violence wasn't as much of a moral concern for Japanese children. A lot of Animated shows and the Tokusatsu shows from over there regularly feature death and violence, and that doesn't stop them from being children's entertainment. It was just an accepted thing over here.

That's possibly why the Godzilla movies of the 70s were still seen as kids movies despite their more violent approach...nobody over there really cared. And heck, at that point, going violent was probably a move to keep up with everything else. I don't really know if that's true as I am not well versed in Japanese societal reactions towards entertainment beyond simply consuming it myself, but that's the impression I get.

In the US, we collectively have it in our minds that we need to helicopter over our kids and make sure everything they watch is good and wholesome and they aren't exposed to something harmful. It goes even further beyond that where a lot of adults here feel like if a show/movie doesn't match their sensibilities, then it needs to be banned entirely. I mean even something as simple as an R Rated movie like Terminator or Robocop having toys was seen as controversial. And heck, these days, simply saying something deemed harmful can get episodes dropped from streaming services. It is what it is.
White Male Genocide is necessary.

Kill all white men.

User avatar
eabaker
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13758
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by eabaker »

Omegazilla wrote:One moment we see a silly cartoon and then next scene we see relatively graphic violence. That movie is a mess.
That's intentional juxtaposition, and I'd say it's easily one of the boldest and most effective storytelling choices made in the series' 70s entries.
Last edited by eabaker on Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 14252
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Silly thing to say, but the blood is black and they're "ape-men aliens". Even in the United States I'm sure that distinction made Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla get past a lot censors and still aimed at kids.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Mechagodzilla duo-logy was certainly more geared towards adults.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

User avatar
Voyager
Keizer
Posts: 7828
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:34 pm
Location: On a boat

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by Voyager »

^ I concur. I mean ToMG is much darker in tone to say Megalon or Gigan, and GvMG is still pretty violent.
Image
For Emperor and Empire!

User avatar
Terasawa
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 5841
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by Terasawa »

LSD Jellyfish wrote:Silly thing to say, but the blood is black and they're "ape-men aliens". Even in the United States I'm sure that distinction made Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla get past a lot censors and still aimed at kids.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Mechagodzilla duo-logy was certainly more geared towards adults.
It'd be nice to get the insight of someone with a more voluminous knowledge of TV tokusatsu of the '60s and '70s. It seems to me the two Mechagodzilla movies are in keeping with the young boys' entertainment on TV and in manga in Japan.

And practically all of the human bloodshed in Mechagodzilla was removed to get the film a G rating in the States. The same is true of ToMG, which was even more savagely edited, but that film was also released on TV with all but Katsura's chest intact.
寺沢. He/him/his, etc.

User avatar
HedorahIsBestGirl
Gotengo Officer
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:17 am

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by HedorahIsBestGirl »

Omegazilla wrote:Well you guys are all right. The last movies were fairly violent for sure, but felt kid friendly in some areas, especially with GvH. The weird cartoon skits, the silly music. It's like it couldn't decide if it wasn't to be kid friendly or not. One moment we see a silly cartoon and then next scene we see relatively graphic violence. That movie is a mess. GvG was definitely darker and more serious but the amusement park setting just gave me the impression of trying to keep the kids interested.
I would hardly call the "weird cartoon skits" kid friendly, they're actually rather disturbing. Godzilla vs. Hedorah isn't a mess at all, it's style and tone are consistent throughout. The fact that it has a child protagonist does not make it a "kiddie" movie. In fact, many have theorized that the surreality of the movie stems from it being viewed from the perspective of a child who does not fully understand the horrors he is witnessing.

I don't know how you think Godzilla vs. Gigan is a darker film. I really don't. To me, it's one of the lightest films in the series. Don't get me wrong, I love it, I love both these movies but I've never seen GvG as a remotely dark film unless it's being contrasted to Godzilla vs. Megalon. For that matter, I don't see Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla as dark, either. The only Champion Festival films I might call "dark" are Hedorah and Terror of Mechagodzilla.
The wisest words ever spoken on TK: "When I Saw The Showa Movie's white My Friend's They seid WTF is This Your showing Me to Men Fighting In suit's they found At party city Butt when I Showed Them The Heisei film's they thoght They where pritty fun To Watch"

:Godzilla68: and :Anguirus: were never really friends.

:Hedorah: is best girl, :Baragon: is best boy

User avatar
MaxRebo320
EDF Instructor
Posts: 2893
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:56 pm
Location: albaquarky
Contact:

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by MaxRebo320 »

Terasawa wrote:It'd be nice to get the insight of someone with a more voluminous knowledge of TV tokusatsu of the '60s and '70s. It seems to me the two Mechagodzilla movies are in keeping with the young boys' entertainment on TV and in manga in Japan.
You rang? But yeah, just about every episode of a Kamen Rider show has people being disintegrated by monsters. One episode of the original series has a monster being jabbed straight into the eye by Hongo. And practically every episode of Goranger features soldiers being massacred by the monster of the week, which isn't too far removed from the gunplay in the Mechagodzilla movies. Granted, there maybe isn't as much bloodshed in those than in the films, but the concept of people being killed through gruesome means was commonplace. I suppose there's an argument to be made about the movies, certainly Terror, being written for a more general, "family" audience (Which was the case with the earlier Ultraman shows I feel most of the original Kamen Rider) as opposed to purely kids (Like most Toei shows), but in terms of violent content, they're about the same.

EDIT: I should have specified human/humanoid bloodshed - there was plenty of monster gore to go around.
Image
Last edited by MaxRebo320 on Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Beta Capsule Reviews - Your Guide to Ultraman & other Tokusatsu episode-by-episode!
https://betacapsulereviews.wordpress.com
three wrote:leave me be maxrebo! damn you and your ability to play the game here....

mikelcho
EDF Instructor
Posts: 2594
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:23 pm

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by mikelcho »

GojiDog wrote:I think it might be a cultural difference.

I could be wrong, but maybe violence wasn't as much of a moral concern for Japanese children. A lot of Animated shows and the Tokusatsu shows from over there regularly feature death and violence, and that doesn't stop them from being children's entertainment. It was just an accepted thing over here.

That's possibly why the Godzilla movies of the 70s were still seen as kids movies despite their more violent approach...nobody over there really cared. And heck, at that point, going violent was probably a move to keep up with everything else. I don't really know if that's true as I am not well versed in Japanese societal reactions towards entertainment beyond simply consuming it myself, but that's the impression I get.

In the US, we collectively have it in our minds that we need to helicopter over our kids and make sure everything they watch is good and wholesome and they aren't exposed to something harmful. It goes even further beyond that where a lot of adults here feel like if a show/movie doesn't match their sensibilities, then it needs to be banned entirely. I mean even something as simple as an R Rated movie like Terminator or Robocop having toys was seen as controversial. And heck, these days, simply saying something deemed harmful can get episodes dropped from streaming services. It is what it is.
Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration is that Daiei's Gamera series, which was an imitation of Toho's Godzilla series and was aimed at kids right from the start, were also violent - and yet they were popular. So, in order to keep the Godzilla series going, Toho started imitating the Gamera series in many ways (including bloody scenes, making Godzilla a hero, etc.). In other words, it became a case of who was imitating whom.

And I know what you mean about the U.S.'s attitude toward violence in kids' shows. Standards and Practices was created to address that fact and by the 1990s, it effectively destroyed Saturday morning cartoons as a genre, mainly by imposing educational and informational restrictions on the shows that, in the end, no one really wanted in the first place, if they were honest (this was the reason Super Friends did the Justice League of America no favors and turned Aquaman into a joke for many years). Kids, when it really got down to it, wanted to have fun on Saturday mornings, not be reminded of school.

GojiDog
G-Grasper
Posts: 1223
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by GojiDog »

mikelcho wrote:
GojiDog wrote:I think it might be a cultural difference.

I could be wrong, but maybe violence wasn't as much of a moral concern for Japanese children. A lot of Animated shows and the Tokusatsu shows from over there regularly feature death and violence, and that doesn't stop them from being children's entertainment. It was just an accepted thing over here.

That's possibly why the Godzilla movies of the 70s were still seen as kids movies despite their more violent approach...nobody over there really cared. And heck, at that point, going violent was probably a move to keep up with everything else. I don't really know if that's true as I am not well versed in Japanese societal reactions towards entertainment beyond simply consuming it myself, but that's the impression I get.

In the US, we collectively have it in our minds that we need to helicopter over our kids and make sure everything they watch is good and wholesome and they aren't exposed to something harmful. It goes even further beyond that where a lot of adults here feel like if a show/movie doesn't match their sensibilities, then it needs to be banned entirely. I mean even something as simple as an R Rated movie like Terminator or Robocop having toys was seen as controversial. And heck, these days, simply saying something deemed harmful can get episodes dropped from streaming services. It is what it is.
Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration is that Daiei's Gamera series, which was an imitation of Toho's Godzilla series and was aimed at kids right from the start, were also violent - and yet they were popular. So, in order to keep the Godzilla series going, Toho started imitating the Gamera series in many ways (including bloody scenes, making Godzilla a hero, etc.). In other words, it became a case of who was imitating whom.

And I know what you mean about the U.S.'s attitude toward violence in kids' shows. Standards and Practices was created to address that fact and by the 1990s, it effectively destroyed Saturday morning cartoons as a genre, mainly by imposing educational and informational restrictions on the shows that, in the end, no one really wanted in the first place, if they were honest (this was the reason Super Friends did the Justice League of America no favors and turned Aquaman into a joke for many years). Kids, when it really got down to it, wanted to have fun on Saturday mornings, not be reminded of school.
Oh God, yeah the Gamera movies were violent as all get out.

I remember watching them as a kid, and they got so bloody, every time we'd get a Gamera film on tape that we had never seen before, we'd make predictions on what color the new monster's blood was going to be.

"I think it'll be green" "Nah, this one looks like more of a purple to me". Actual exchange I had at 6 years old with my bro, lol.
White Male Genocide is necessary.

Kill all white men.

User avatar
Omegazilla
Interpol Agent
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:30 am

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by Omegazilla »

I would hardly call the "weird cartoon skits" kid friendly, they're actually rather disturbing.
For you perhaps. I did not get the same vibes. Some of them felt more childish and others felt more like drug trips.[/quote]
Yeah... we don't agree on this and never will. Saying anything more than that is just gonna go off-topic.
In fact, many have theorized that the surreality of the movie stems from it being viewed from the perspective of a child who does not fully understand the horrors he is witnessing.
I'm not buying that it is a movie that is deeper than it seems. As far as I am concerned Banno was banned from directing Godzilla movies rightfully so.
[quote[I don't know how you think Godzilla vs. Gigan is a darker film. I really don't. To me, it's one of the lightest films in the series. Don't get me wrong, I love it, I love both these movies but I've never seen GvG as a remotely dark film unless it's being contrasted to Godzilla vs. Megalon. [/quote]
There was no silly psychedelic music playing or awkward cartoons. The violence is also much more overt. Godzilla's hand doesn't look anywhere near as jarring as seeing him hemorrhage blood. Unless you are conceding about the kid elements I saw. A cartoonist in an amusement park definitely would appeal to children. I'm not saying that's what the director intended, but I am saying those are the vibes I got.
For that matter, I don't see Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla as dark, either. The only Champion Festival films I might call "dark" are Hedorah and Terror of Mechagodzilla.
I never said GvG or GvM were dark, I said darker. Darker than GvH specifically and that was my point. GvMG was much more straightforward and more violent than it's predecessor, probably the most violent Showa movie period. So much blood for a Godzilla movie and that is why I say it is was far less kid friendly and comparatively darker than a considerable amount of previous films.

User avatar
eabaker
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13758
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by eabaker »

Omegazilla wrote:
In fact, many have theorized that the surreality of the movie stems from it being viewed from the perspective of a child who does not fully understand the horrors he is witnessing.
I'm not buying that it is a movie that is deeper than it seems.
"Deeper than it seems"? But if it seems to be the way that HedorahIsBestGirl indicates (and to somes of us, it seems that it does seem that way), then that's not "deeper than it seems," it's just exactly as deep as it seems.

Anyway, we're way off topic at this point. So I'll just add in that, whether intentional or not, at least Hedroah invites layered interpretation. I'm curious, what particular themes or metaphors has anyone in this thread ever gotten a sense of in Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla?
Last edited by eabaker on Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
Omegazilla
Interpol Agent
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:30 am

Re: Talkback Thread #14: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Post by Omegazilla »

"Deeper than it seems"? But if it seems to be the way that HedorahIsBestGirl indicates (and to somes of us, it seems that it does seem that way), then that's not "deeper than it seems," it's just exactly as deep as it seems.
I was speaking in second person. Unfortunately unlike my native tongue English has no easy way to make it obvious I am speaking in second person without using the word "you."
Anyway, we're way off topic at this point. So I'll just add in that, whether intentional or not, at least Hedroah invites layered interpretation. I'm curious, what particular themes or metaphors has anyone in this thread ever gotten a sense of in Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla?
Good question. I don't think GvM really has any real theme other than the Planet of the Apes ripoff vibes I got. Seems pretty straightforward which is why I like it. It made a lot despite having very little to work with. Does anyone agree with this or did you get a feeling for some themes or allegories from your viewpoint?

Post Reply