Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
I think a lot of the cuts were honestly just for pacing. I agree that the expanded information in the Japanese cut of the film adds a lot of depth- but the story doesn't really flow. I feel like a lot of the cuts were honestly to give energy and flow to the film; in my experience, the Japanese version was lethargic, and a bit more of a chore to get through, despite the added interest of exapnded worldbuilding.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
the film, both versions, really doesn't have a pacing issue in terms of exposition or dialogue, especially anything aforementioned. The issue was the decision to make the UFO "re-stagnate" and land after it first appears, and the whole tower sequence.Zarm wrote:I think a lot of the cuts were honestly just for pacing. I agree that the expanded information in the Japanese cut of the film adds a lot of depth- but the story doesn't really flow. I feel like a lot of the cuts were honestly to give energy and flow to the film; in my experience, the Japanese version was lethargic, and a bit more of a chore to get through, despite the added interest of exapnded worldbuilding.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
I'm actually referring to the "Millennium Kingdom" stuff that comes up when the aliens announce their intent with the takeover of Tokyo's computer systems. In the audio commentary, Schlesinger actually points out that they removed that stuff because by the time the U.S. version was released, the mystique of the new millennium had already long since passed.LSD Jellyfish wrote:I disagree as overeliance on technology and the risk of cyber circuity is still a big issue. The film definitely could have done more with that though.Terasawa wrote:I understand the removal of the Millennium subplot. That stuff was instantly dated on 1/1/2000. I wonder if the other simplifications were done to tailor the film to an American audience that expects a very basic monster vs. monster story from a Godzilla film.
In other words, it was basically just the word "millennium" on its own that the U.S. producers felt would immediately date the film. I think that was probably the right decision in August, 2000; if the film were Americanized today I bet they'd leave that in.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
Yes the word "Millennium" certainly would date the film...unlike the word 2000.Terasawa wrote:I'm actually referring to the "Millennium Kingdom" stuff that comes up when the aliens announce their intent with the takeover of Tokyo's computer systems. In the audio commentary, Schlesinger actually points out that they removed that stuff because by the time the U.S. version was released, the mystique of the new millennium had already long since passed.LSD Jellyfish wrote:I disagree as overeliance on technology and the risk of cyber circuity is still a big issue. The film definitely could have done more with that though.Terasawa wrote:I understand the removal of the Millennium subplot. That stuff was instantly dated on 1/1/2000. I wonder if the other simplifications were done to tailor the film to an American audience that expects a very basic monster vs. monster story from a Godzilla film.
In other words, it was basically just the word "millennium" on its own that the U.S. producers felt would immediately date the film. I think that was probably the right decision in August, 2000; if the film were Americanized today I bet they'd leave that in.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
I wonder if anyone's tried to make a fan edit of the Japanese version that gives it the pace and energy of the US Cut, but without the dubbing? It'd certainly be interesting to see.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
Film officially turns 20 today, so decided to share my thoughts
I fucking love 2000 so much.
Is it the most powerful Godzilla film, a genre defying classic like Shin or 54? No.
However, 2000 to me is just perfect for what it is: a classic Godzilla story done exceedingly well. It is formula but it's one of the best executions of the formula, innovating new ideas for every one it brings back. The characters are all amazing. The human ones shine as people in a world of monsters, a refreshingly down to earth portrayal compared to the agents of super organizations and military men that would come before and since. The kaiju are also incredibly well done. The Millenians are by and far the best execution of an alien antagonist in the series. They excude a silence, unknowable menace in the UFO before becoming a tragic terror once they become Orga. And finally, as for the "dreaded god" himself, this Godzilla is the standard for all Godzillas for me. A mysterious creature of unknown origins and alignment, both a creature science can understand and a mysterious god acting on whims we can't understand.
2000 not only shows what a Godzilla film can be, it reminds us in that iconic finale, as Godzilla saves mankind and then instantly burns down it's works, what Godzilla is.
2000 was the second film I saw and the one that truly made me love this series, and think about it as more then just the monster battles younger me associated it with.
So, for that, I wish it a fond anniversary
I fucking love 2000 so much.
Is it the most powerful Godzilla film, a genre defying classic like Shin or 54? No.
However, 2000 to me is just perfect for what it is: a classic Godzilla story done exceedingly well. It is formula but it's one of the best executions of the formula, innovating new ideas for every one it brings back. The characters are all amazing. The human ones shine as people in a world of monsters, a refreshingly down to earth portrayal compared to the agents of super organizations and military men that would come before and since. The kaiju are also incredibly well done. The Millenians are by and far the best execution of an alien antagonist in the series. They excude a silence, unknowable menace in the UFO before becoming a tragic terror once they become Orga. And finally, as for the "dreaded god" himself, this Godzilla is the standard for all Godzillas for me. A mysterious creature of unknown origins and alignment, both a creature science can understand and a mysterious god acting on whims we can't understand.
2000 not only shows what a Godzilla film can be, it reminds us in that iconic finale, as Godzilla saves mankind and then instantly burns down it's works, what Godzilla is.
2000 was the second film I saw and the one that truly made me love this series, and think about it as more then just the monster battles younger me associated it with.
So, for that, I wish it a fond anniversary
Last edited by SoggyNoodles2016 on Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
This is the only Godzilla movie where I've ever walked away wishing that the central characters had been given more movies to interact in together. The dynamics among Shinoda, Miyasaka and Katagiri are really interesting, and I'd have loved to see a trilogy that really explored the motives of all three, and the way that Miysaka is torn between the other two's perspectives.SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:The characters are all amazing. The human ones shine as people in a world of monsters, a refreshingly down to earth portrayal compared to the agents of super organizations and military men that would come before and since.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
I've been wondering what was so weird about the Japanese version that throws me off vs. the american version. I think it's the sound. there are some scenes where Godzilla's stomping around and you hear music and then... nothing... It's awkward. Still love this movie. Still looks and feels like a much bigger film than the other millenium, and Heisei, films.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
It's my first theater Godzilla film.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
Absolutely, I've always felt that the character dynamics in this film were the most strongly drawn. To me, it feels so much like what could have been a BEGINNING....like, to see Shinoda, Io, Yuki, and Miyasaka develop over 2 more films would have been interesting. Even to do a Gamera-Trilogy-esque thing where maybe they played co-starring, or even supporting roles to new characters that came in.eabaker wrote:This is the only Godzilla movie where I've ever walked away wishing that the central characters had been given more movies to interact in together. The dynamics among Shinoda, Miyasaka and Katagiri are really interesting, and I'd have loved to see a trilogy that really explored the motives of all three, and the way that Miysaka is torn between the other two's perspectives.SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:The characters are all amazing. The human ones shine as people in a world of monsters, a refreshingly down to earth portrayal compared to the agents of super organizations and military men that would come before and since.
With or without the enhanced US Sound Design...something about G2K always feels a bit more cinematic than anything from the 90s or 00s. Anything since Biollante. I always pretend the film is a ghost-sequel to Biollante ANYWAYS.
I saw G98 in a theater, and G2K was the first Toho movie I saw in theaters....maybe seeing it in that way is what makes it feel so grand in my memory.
I always wanted more of this one though. I would have loved to see the G2K design be used for a trilogy of films and become as distinct and known as the Heisei Design.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
This movie is a real snoozer after that first Godzilla/UFO battle. :/ I also really don't like Takayuki Hattori's score at all. I hate the weak instrumentation most of all but the compositions don't fit anything on the screen.
I hate to say it but I like G2K less every time I watch it.
I hate to say it but I like G2K less every time I watch it.
Last edited by Terasawa on Sat May 02, 2020 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
That's too bad. The same thing happens to me every time I watch Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, but I still enjoy G2K.Terasawa wrote:This movie is a real snoozer after that first Godzilla/UFO battle. :/ I also really don't like Takayuki Hattori's score at all. I hate the weak instrumentation most of all but the compositions don't fit anything on the screen.
I hate to say it but I like G2K less every time I watch it.
I really enjoy Shinoda's character and his father/daughter dynamic with Io. I also enjoy his rivalry with Katagiri. That's enough to hold my attention. I agree that the movie drags a bit after the Godzilla/UFO battle, but it picks back up before I get really bored. To be honest, I find G2K more consistently engaging than all but two of the Heisei films, those being Biollante and MG2, and I still favor it over both of those films.
I have to admit, the score is one of the series' weakest. Personally, I prefer it to the scores for the Kiryu duology, but I'm aware that's a very unpopular opinion. Otherwise, it's pretty much bottom of the barrel for the series' music.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
Lately I've found that I really prefer the concept of those characters and relationships to what we get in the movie. For example, movie Katagiri has virtually no humanizing characteristics: he's just a colossal jerk. Any positive or even ambiguous elements of his character are basically limited to lip service. I do like Hiroshi Abe a lot and I think he does the best he can with what he was given...HedorahIsBestGirl wrote:That's too bad. The same thing happens to me every time I watch Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, but I still enjoy G2K.Terasawa wrote:This movie is a real snoozer after that first Godzilla/UFO battle. :/ I also really don't like Takayuki Hattori's score at all. I hate the weak instrumentation most of all but the compositions don't fit anything on the screen.
I hate to say it but I like G2K less every time I watch it.
I really enjoy Shinoda's character and his father/daughter dynamic with Io. I also enjoy his rivalry with Katagiri. That's enough to hold my attention. I agree that the movie drags a bit after the Godzilla/UFO battle, but it picks back up before I get really bored. To be honest, I find G2K more consistently engaging than all but two of the Heisei films, those being Biollante and MG2, and I still favor it over both of those films.
Speaking of Shinoda and Io, the father/daughter track is Hattori's best for the film. Some of the compositions (Godzilla's theme, the Full Metal Missile strike) are cool but I don't think they work well with the accompanying visuals.
I'm not too high on Oshima's Godzilla scores either but I think the one that was recorded with the Moscow Symphonic Orchestra (GXMG) has incredible power. I don't play that soundtrack or movie very often but it always impresses me. IMO the GFW score is the series' worst. Godzilla Raids Again is down there, too.I have to admit, the score is one of the series' weakest. Personally, I prefer it to the scores for the Kiryu duology, but I'm aware that's a very unpopular opinion. Otherwise, it's pretty much bottom of the barrel for the series' music.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
Yeah, at the time, I was really drawn to the Shinoda/Miyasaka/Katagiri dynamic, but I walked out of the theater thinking those character relationships could have played out across a trilogy. They represent my favorite aspect of the movie, which I do overall enjoy a fair amoung, but there's definitely a missed opportunity there.Terasawa wrote:Lately I've found that I really prefer the concept of those characters and relationships to what we get in the movie. For example, movie Katagiri has virtually no humanizing characteristics: he's just a colossal jerk. Any positive or even ambiguous elements of his character are basically limited to lip service. I do like Hiroshi Abe a lot and I think he does the best he can with what he was given...
Agreed on pretty much all of these points. I find Hattori's score for G2K to be passable, functional, but thoroughly unremarkable (I'd say the same about the GRA score). I like Oshima's work, but it's all very generic, never feeling specific to the scenes/story; you could take her Godzilla scores and apply them to pretty much any action/adventure movie, and they'd fit equally well.HedorahIsBestGirl wrote:I'm not too high on Oshima's Godzilla scores either but I think the one that was recorded with the Moscow Symphonic Orchestra (GXMG) has incredible power. I don't play that soundtrack or movie very often but it always impresses me. IMO the GFW score is the series' worst. Godzilla Raids Again is down there, too.I have to admit, the score is one of the series' weakest. Personally, I prefer it to the scores for the Kiryu duology, but I'm aware that's a very unpopular opinion. Otherwise, it's pretty much bottom of the barrel for the series' music.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
On the subject of Hatorri's score. I quite enjoyed it. Much better than what he put together in 1994 for GODZILLA Vs. SPACE GODZILLA. In that flick it always came off weird ,and misplaced like it just didn't fit in. It had some good spots. Like at the beginning with Space G going through space towards Earth, and the building of Moguera. But honestly it just didn't work. I can't help but be reminded of Christopher Stone's score from A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 2:Freddy's Revenge ! when thinking of Space G. But his music just seems to fit 2000 better all around. At least for me.
Also, I watched G-2000 last night ,and noticed when Shindo and Io are getting dinner ready in one scene. There's some thing playing in the background. Never really noticed it before ,just thought it was a news report playing, or a documentary. I guess in the American version Michael Schlesinger, the writer, editor charged with dubbing it for an American audience decided to add another nod to American sci-fi classics by having played in the background the Ray Harryhausen classic, EARTH Vs. THE FLYING SAUCERS !, If you have a decent sound system you can hear the characters from the flick when they're talking to aliens in the film. Just thought I should share that with you.
Also, I watched G-2000 last night ,and noticed when Shindo and Io are getting dinner ready in one scene. There's some thing playing in the background. Never really noticed it before ,just thought it was a news report playing, or a documentary. I guess in the American version Michael Schlesinger, the writer, editor charged with dubbing it for an American audience decided to add another nod to American sci-fi classics by having played in the background the Ray Harryhausen classic, EARTH Vs. THE FLYING SAUCERS !, If you have a decent sound system you can hear the characters from the flick when they're talking to aliens in the film. Just thought I should share that with you.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
Interesting. I'll try to see if I can hear that.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
So I watched Wakasa's interview last night and am a bit confused, hoping someone can clarify. So Wakasa, Sakai, and Nishikawa all had a hand in creating this design? Does anyone know who created the first version? I know Sakai's version was tweaked for the film.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
I always thought Nishikawa drew the initial concept, Sakai made a maquette based off of it, but the suit took some serious liberties with the maquette design and turned into how it appears in the movie.shadowgigan wrote:So I watched Wakasa's interview last night and am a bit confused, hoping someone can clarify. So Wakasa, Sakai, and Nishikawa all had a hand in creating this design? Does anyone know who created the first version? I know Sakai's version was tweaked for the film.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
Wikizilla has some concept art of the Godzilla design, credited to Yuji Sakai. One of these is a silhouette of (approximately) the final design. Wakasa is a suit builder but I don't know if he was involved in the early concept design phase, and I'm not sure how Nishikawa fits in, either.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)
If you're referring to this one...Terasawa wrote:Wikizilla has some concept art of the Godzilla design, credited to Yuji Sakai. One of these is a silhouette of (approximately) the final design. Wakasa is a suit builder but I don't know if he was involved in the early concept design phase, and I'm not sure how Nishikawa fits in, either.
https://wikizilla.org/wiki/Godzilla_200 ... illa_2.png
That's Nishikawa. Looks like their notations are a bit outdated. Y'all really making me take out my Nishikawa drawing book?!
According to Nishikawa, the three designs on the left (A, B, C descending) are what he drew up first. The ones on the right are various combinations of the three on the left. I think the decided design here was the one on the upper right, which primarily mixed the spines of A and the body of B, and also appears on the Japanese poster.
https://wikizilla.org/w/images/2/24/God ... Poster.jpg
Here's Sakai's sculpt based on the silhouette.
Couldn't tell you how early on Wakasa may've gotten involved, though.
/crawls back under rockMecha M wrote:[after seeing Shin Godzilla's design] Looks like partially cooked carne asada