Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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MechaGoji Bro7503
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by MechaGoji Bro7503 »

Legion1979 wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:35 am
Spuro wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:08 am
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:50 pm Godzilla himself is wonderful. I believe he was the first to start the trend of Godzilla's dorsal plates being seen above the waves when he's charging towards shore.
I’d hate to break it to you… but that now classic trope was actually invented by G98 of all things.
Yeah, I hate to break it to both of you but I'm pretty sure Son of Godzilla did that first.
Let's go with SoG being the first :lol:

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:58 am
Legion1979 wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:35 am
Spuro wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:08 am

I’d hate to break it to you… but that now classic trope was actually invented by G98 of all things.
Yeah, I hate to break it to both of you but I'm pretty sure Son of Godzilla did that first.
Let's go with SoG being the first :lol:

Damn nice find gottatalktothefake!
The original claim was not about what movie invented it, though, but which movie started the trend. SoG did it, but the movies that followed didn't pick up on it.

It'd say '98 is the trend-setter here.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by edgaguirus »

I think that the Millenium aliens could work in their own movie. They clearly have the tech and intelligence to use their resources in a way that would pose a challenge for any heroes. Let's say the plot involves them going around kidnapping humans in order to engineer the perfect genome so they can adapt and conquer our planet. I know the kidnapping plot sounds similar to the Mysterians, but the motive adds a more scientific and sinister approach.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by VOID GHIDORAH »

Legion1979 wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:35 am
Spuro wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:08 am
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:50 pm Godzilla himself is wonderful. I believe he was the first to start the trend of Godzilla's dorsal plates being seen above the waves when he's charging towards shore.
I’d hate to break it to you… but that now classic trope was actually invented by G98 of all things.
Yeah, I hate to break it to both of you but I'm pretty sure Son of Godzilla did that first.
I hate to break it to you fellas, but Godzilla Raids Again did it first.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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Godzilla 2000 also features some of the greatest camera work from any Godzilla film made in either Japan or America. The opening attack has visuals that still haunt me. The shot where Godzilla is framed in the middle of the city with the public panicking in the foreground as the power to the whole city cuts out leaving Godzilla backlight by the fires he started is so powerful. Also love the scene where the G Prediction network van drives down the road with the massive Godzilla framed behind them in the background is great. GMK aside none of the following G films ever had the same sense of life, energy, and pure weight to their camerawork that Godzilla 2000 does and its a damn shame.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by MechaGoji Bro7503 »

VOID GHIDORAH wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:28 am
Legion1979 wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:35 am
Spuro wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:08 am

I’d hate to break it to you… but that now classic trope was actually invented by G98 of all things.
Yeah, I hate to break it to both of you but I'm pretty sure Son of Godzilla did that first.
I hate to break it to you fellas, but Godzilla Raids Again did it first.
At the rate we're going, someone better have concept art from pre-production of 1954 of that Godzilla swimming like that first :lol:
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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I love the English dub on this one. "What is this, the imbecile rate!?"

Added in 27 minutes 2 seconds:
Does anyone else feel like the Ship handled Godzilla better than Orga? I'm rewatching the flm right now, only half way though. Perhaps Godzilla learned a lot during their first encoutner.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by edgaguirus »

The ship was harder for Godzilla. It was faster, had more fire power, and made smart use of the cables in the fight.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by LegendZilla »

I’ve just noticed that his is the only film in the Millennium era that does not reference or allude to the events of G54 whatsoever.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by ShinGojira14 »

Spuro wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:08 am
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:50 pm Godzilla himself is wonderful. I believe he was the first to start the trend of Godzilla's dorsal plates being seen above the waves when he's charging towards shore.
I’d hate to break it to you… but that now classic trope was actually invented by G98 of all things.
G84 did it first, actually. And so did vs Destoroyah. Both before 98.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Al Diplodocus »

So i'm part of a larger project on Alternatehistory.com, specifically the Hippie in the House of Mouse project, and for it I'm currently writing an entry relating to Godzilla, and for the purpose of research, I ask is it true Godzilla 2000 came about because of '98 have a delay in production? Because its been planned by the lead writer for its American Godzilla film to debut in 1997 instead.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Omegamorph »

Punk-skreonk great movie, pure 90s anime style
Platypus Prime wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:21 pm I realized today that thanks to a few animations and manga she's appeared in, Biollante is an anime girl.
miguelnuva wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:47 pm With this being an Oscar for best visual effects you can also joke and say Godzilla really did win the oscar.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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Anime style?

That's a new one.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Omegamorph »

Legion1979 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:18 am Anime style?

That's a new one.
Indeed, the concept art for G2K and the final look seem to suggest an "anime-fied" G62. This is later enhanced in the GxM version (which faces an Evangelion-like MG)
Platypus Prime wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:21 pm I realized today that thanks to a few animations and manga she's appeared in, Biollante is an anime girl.
miguelnuva wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:47 pm With this being an Oscar for best visual effects you can also joke and say Godzilla really did win the oscar.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by canofhumdingers »

ShinGojira14 wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:59 am
Spuro wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:08 am
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:50 pm Godzilla himself is wonderful. I believe he was the first to start the trend of Godzilla's dorsal plates being seen above the waves when he's charging towards shore.
I’d hate to break it to you… but that now classic trope was actually invented by G98 of all things.
G84 did it first, actually. And so did vs Destoroyah. Both before 98.
Didn’t Godzilla Raids Again feature a shot or two of Godzilla swimming with his dorsal fins poking out? And Son of Godzilla? And maybe a few other Showa films. I know Gigan features Godzilla and Anguirus swimming with their heads above the water but can’t remember any shots of just the fins.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by JAGzilla »

I'm rewatching this right now, currently fourteen minutes in. Last viewing was in 2014, and I could barely see it thanks to the sun glaring on the TV. This time I don't have that problem, so I could appreciate how cool the whole Nemuro attack sequence was. Godzilla silhouetted against the orange background of smoke and fog, just towering imposingly over the small buildings and fleeing civilians in the foreground. All those great shots following the car as it drives alongside and then away from him. It's short, but probably a top ten Godzilla city rampage scene.

I decided to try the Japanese version this time. We'll see how that goes. I know some of my favorite scenes won't hit the same without Ifukube's score, but I guess I'll deal. I'm curious to see how Hattori handles them.

EDIT: I wonder what ever happened to that little homemade GPN sign. That would be an awesome collectors item.

EDIT: I will definitely say that Hattori does a fantastic job building a sense of awe and wonder around the UFO. He totally makes every scene that thing is in.

The military battle was better than I'd remembered. The Full Metal Missiles feel powerful and vicious, and you do feel like Godzilla is standing up to an honestly intense attack. The purple sunset sky makes a really nice backdrop for this scene, too.

I love the random, stupid approach this movie takes to comic relief. The guy who gives reporter lady directions hitting his coworker over the head, the people arguing on the train. The general using the UFO to excuse his failure got a good laugh out of me. "If that thing hadn't shown up, we could have -" :lol:

EDIT: Done. In terms of polished, competent filmmaking, this is one of the best Godzilla entries of its day, better than anything else between 1991 and 2014, with only GMK on a similar or higher level. It has hiccups; visual quality was all over the place, though some of that was probably the Blu-ray transfer's fault. The sound and music do falter during the final battle, and I can see why the US edit punched things up; more on that below. The CGI is very dated, of course. But overall, it works. Godzilla is a total badass, Orga was a unique and memorable new enemy, and the human characters were leaps and bounds more interesting and charismatic than the '90s Heisei standard.

The climax of the human action, the skyscraper demolition/escape scene, was uncommonly good for the kaiju genre. Miyasaka, wracked with guilt, tries to atone for his mistake by saving his friend. Katagiri doesn't. I actually felt something as Shinoda bravely risked his life to save the data and escape, and Io worries about him. Even annoying, selfish Yuki gets her little redemption moment by going back for Shinoda. It's a high point of human drama in this franchise, for sure. It's kind of let down afterwards by the data being ultimately unnecessary, though. It would have been nice if our heroes could've done something with it to sabotage the UFO and help Godzilla, but I can respect the decision to go with the Honda tradition and leave the humans as ineffectual observers on a rooftop while the gods duke it out for the fate of the world.

I was surprised to hear the Ifukube track start up when Godzilla entered Tokyo. I'd been under the impression that Hattori scored the whole movie. It's a little frustrating that he didn't get to, but that is my favorite rendition of the Godzilla March, so I'm not going to complain, exactly. And yeah, as stated, the battle plays pretty differently compared to the US version. Some scenes are lacking oomph, like the UFO dropping the skyscraper on Godzilla's head, or the opening blows of G vs. Orga. Orga himself feels very different, much less threatening. His weak little roar and the lack of intimidating music make him feel kind of pitiful, actually. There's a line of dialogue that was omitted from the US version, something about the alien's body not accepting the Organizer G-1. He ends up acquiring this tragic, desperate feeling, and you even feel sorry for him at times as Godzilla beats on him. It sort of works interestingly in its own right, but doesn't fit the overall context very well. Orga was a cocky bastard throughout the rest of the movie, and we see that he has no qualms about killing us all and conquering Earth. We should be cheering when Godzilla kills him, not feeling conflicted. Well... I guess it sounds bad when I say it like that. I definitely approve of grey-area morality and complex villains in media, but this instance could have been executed better.
Last edited by JAGzilla on Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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JAGzilla wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:27 pm I was surprised to hear the Ifukube track start up when Godzilla entered Tokyo. I'd been under the impression that Hattori scored the whole movie. It's a little frustrating that he didn't get to, but that is my favorite rendition of the Godzilla March, so I'm not going to complain, exactly.
Both G2K and GxM have a stock Ifukube track score Godzilla's third act entrance, which is so uniform that I think it must have been Shogo Tomiyama's doing. On the other hand, Kensho Yamashita (Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla) said it was his own idea to use Ifukube music for Godzilla's Baas Island arrival in that film, so maybe Okawara and Tezuka chose to use Ifukube music in G2K and GxM, respectively. (But then GxM is the only Tezuka film with Ifukube music, so perhaps it wasn't his idea after all. Who knows.)
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

I just rewatched this. Great, but also a little uneven at this point. I definitely like how it works (and looks) overall than any of the post 1991 Heisei films, and it’s definitely my second favorite Millenium entry after GMK.
JAGzilla wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:27 pmI'm rewatching this right now, currently fourteen minutes in. Last viewing was in 2014, and I could barely see it thanks to the sun glaring on the TV. This time I don't have that problem, so I could appreciate how cool the whole Nemuro attack sequence was. Godzilla silhouetted against the orange background of smoke and fog, just towering imposingly over the small buildings and fleeing civilians in the foreground. All those great shots following the car as it drives alongside and then away from him. It's short, but probably a top ten Godzilla city rampage scene.
Yeah. Not to mention it had some of the best compositing in the series. It’s a shame that some of the later compositing isn’t so great, but there’s some amazing moments during that sequence that make it seem like Godzilla is really there.

I agree about the fantastic lighting as well. I used to not like it so much, but I love the idea of Godzilla being lit up by his own fire he creates.

As an aside, Nemuro is a pretty interesting location to focus on in a Godzilla film. It’s sort of in the super sticks of the Hokkaido region, an already rare location in the genre.
The military battle was better than I'd remembered. The Full Metal Missiles feel powerful and vicious, and you do feel like Godzilla is standing up to an honestly intense attack. The purple sunset sky makes a really nice backdrop for this scene, too.
Yeah. What I also like are the full metal missiles. If you’ve seen other Godzilla films this military scene can feel underwhelming. But in the context of the film, it’s set up as a tense and effective moment. The military is successfully luring Godzilla into a trap, one with a new super weapon, that does actually blow chunks out of Godzilla. While who knows if the operation would have killed Godzilla (probably not), it is interesting seeing them actually damage Godzilla like that. It provides tension, and I like how the UFO shows up to finish off Godzilla.

I like how the Millenian(s) are a total mystery and truly alien (unlike let’s say showa aliens that are in human disguises). We get ideas of what it’s thinking of, but it’s never substantial. Sure it wants to take over earth, but there’s also a lot to say that it is pathetic and a little desperate just to survive. A lot of people have complained how Orgas hands don’t do much, but I now interpret it as it’s just a horribly deformed creature. The battle isn’t the most enticing, but I love how the threat of Orga isn’t it overpowering Godzilla, but just continually regenerating. It’s still not super intimidating, but I love that moment where Orga fakes Godzilla out with its beam (charges), and jumps away from Godzilla while holding its attention, before the burnt UFO slams into Godzilla. It’s a great moment of strategic planning that is a bit rare.

Orga fits the film well because it’s a monster that doesn’t take away the spotlight from Godzilla. For being a film with another monster, I like how much of the focus is on Godzilla being a rare and majestic creature rather than just a monster appears and Godzilla is thrown in.

It’s been mentioned, but I like the characters and light comedy throughout. A lot of it reminds me of the Showa humor; nothing too distracting or offensive, but a little cheery and light hearted.

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Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by cloverfan98 »

I maintain to this day the Millenniums (is that a Toho sanctioned name or just fan created title?) are the scariest invader species from any Godzilla film. Their absolute lack of communication with the human cast and never bothering to explain their own actions is terrifying. The pest controller dosen't explain to the ants why he's removing their ant hill and wiping them out he just does it and thats how far above humanity the Millenniums are portrayed.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

cloverfan98 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 8:05 am I maintain to this day the Millenniums (is that a Toho sanctioned name or just fan created title?) are the scariest invader species from any Godzilla film. Their absolute lack of communication with the human cast and never bothering to explain their own actions is terrifying. The pest controller dosen't explain to the ants why he's removing their ant hill and wiping them out he just does it and thats how far above humanity the Millenniums are portrayed.
I don’t think they’re the scariest alien race I’ve ever encountered in a SF movie, but they’re definitely up there in creepiness factor for a Godzilla film. Most of the other aliens in Godzilla are assuming humanoid forms and relish in camp+easy to understand goals.

One thing I thought about G2000 is how Orga sort of steals the spotlight in the worst way possible. Orga is a weird monster, as it’s not really the antagonist of the film (sort of). The UFO/Millenians are, and Orga shows up in the last few minutes. It’s one of the very few monsters in the series to exclusively show up in the climax (the other being Monster X/Keizer Ghidorah) and it makes itself short lived. The rest of the narrative is focused on the UFO, which actually “fights” Godzilla twice. Orga is the Millenian/s, but it’s a shame the UFO doesn’t appear more in Godzilla popular culture, as it has more screen time and significance than the monster it spawns. It also has a decent amount of “moves” to use on opponents.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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