Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

For the discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released from 1999 to 2015.
Post Reply
User avatar
Zarm
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 4973
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: USA, East Coast
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Zarm »

I think a lot of the cuts were honestly just for pacing. I agree that the expanded information in the Japanese cut of the film adds a lot of depth- but the story doesn't really flow. I feel like a lot of the cuts were honestly to give energy and flow to the film; in my experience, the Japanese version was lethargic, and a bit more of a chore to get through, despite the added interest of exapnded worldbuilding.
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight. :ninja:
The grace of God is a greater gift than we can truly fathom; undeserved mercy is a kindness humbling in its sheer scope.

The Zone Fighter campaign is complete, with all episodes subtitled! PM me if you need a link location.

Maranatha!

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 14254
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Zarm wrote:I think a lot of the cuts were honestly just for pacing. I agree that the expanded information in the Japanese cut of the film adds a lot of depth- but the story doesn't really flow. I feel like a lot of the cuts were honestly to give energy and flow to the film; in my experience, the Japanese version was lethargic, and a bit more of a chore to get through, despite the added interest of exapnded worldbuilding.
the film, both versions, really doesn't have a pacing issue in terms of exposition or dialogue, especially anything aforementioned. The issue was the decision to make the UFO "re-stagnate" and land after it first appears, and the whole tower sequence.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

User avatar
Terasawa
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 5841
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Terasawa »

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
Terasawa wrote:I understand the removal of the Millennium subplot. That stuff was instantly dated on 1/1/2000. I wonder if the other simplifications were done to tailor the film to an American audience that expects a very basic monster vs. monster story from a Godzilla film.
I disagree as overeliance on technology and the risk of cyber circuity is still a big issue. The film definitely could have done more with that though.
I'm actually referring to the "Millennium Kingdom" stuff that comes up when the aliens announce their intent with the takeover of Tokyo's computer systems. In the audio commentary, Schlesinger actually points out that they removed that stuff because by the time the U.S. version was released, the mystique of the new millennium had already long since passed.

In other words, it was basically just the word "millennium" on its own that the U.S. producers felt would immediately date the film. I think that was probably the right decision in August, 2000; if the film were Americanized today I bet they'd leave that in.
寺沢. He/him/his, etc.

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 14254
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Terasawa wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:
Terasawa wrote:I understand the removal of the Millennium subplot. That stuff was instantly dated on 1/1/2000. I wonder if the other simplifications were done to tailor the film to an American audience that expects a very basic monster vs. monster story from a Godzilla film.
I disagree as overeliance on technology and the risk of cyber circuity is still a big issue. The film definitely could have done more with that though.
I'm actually referring to the "Millennium Kingdom" stuff that comes up when the aliens announce their intent with the takeover of Tokyo's computer systems. In the audio commentary, Schlesinger actually points out that they removed that stuff because by the time the U.S. version was released, the mystique of the new millennium had already long since passed.

In other words, it was basically just the word "millennium" on its own that the U.S. producers felt would immediately date the film. I think that was probably the right decision in August, 2000; if the film were Americanized today I bet they'd leave that in.
Yes the word "Millennium" certainly would date the film...unlike the word 2000. :lol:
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

User avatar
Gojira9310
Monsterland Worker
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:02 pm
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Gojira9310 »

I wonder if anyone's tried to make a fan edit of the Japanese version that gives it the pace and energy of the US Cut, but without the dubbing? It'd certainly be interesting to see.

User avatar
SoggyNoodles2016
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6133
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 7:37 am
Location: My parents' basement

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by SoggyNoodles2016 »

Film officially turns 20 today, so decided to share my thoughts

I fucking love 2000 so much.

Is it the most powerful Godzilla film, a genre defying classic like Shin or 54? No.

However, 2000 to me is just perfect for what it is: a classic Godzilla story done exceedingly well. It is formula but it's one of the best executions of the formula, innovating new ideas for every one it brings back. The characters are all amazing. The human ones shine as people in a world of monsters, a refreshingly down to earth portrayal compared to the agents of super organizations and military men that would come before and since. The kaiju are also incredibly well done. The Millenians are by and far the best execution of an alien antagonist in the series. They excude a silence, unknowable menace in the UFO before becoming a tragic terror once they become Orga. And finally, as for the "dreaded god" himself, this Godzilla is the standard for all Godzillas for me. A mysterious creature of unknown origins and alignment, both a creature science can understand and a mysterious god acting on whims we can't understand.

2000 not only shows what a Godzilla film can be, it reminds us in that iconic finale, as Godzilla saves mankind and then instantly burns down it's works, what Godzilla is.

2000 was the second film I saw and the one that truly made me love this series, and think about it as more then just the monster battles younger me associated it with.

So, for that, I wish it a fond anniversary
Last edited by SoggyNoodles2016 on Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image

RIP Evan.

User avatar
eabaker
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13758
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by eabaker »

SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:The characters are all amazing. The human ones shine as people in a world of monsters, a refreshingly down to earth portrayal compared to the agents of super organizations and military men that would come before and since.
This is the only Godzilla movie where I've ever walked away wishing that the central characters had been given more movies to interact in together. The dynamics among Shinoda, Miyasaka and Katagiri are really interesting, and I'd have loved to see a trilogy that really explored the motives of all three, and the way that Miysaka is torn between the other two's perspectives.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
KingKaiju
Futurian
Posts: 3013
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:31 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by KingKaiju »

I've been wondering what was so weird about the Japanese version that throws me off vs. the american version. I think it's the sound. there are some scenes where Godzilla's stomping around and you hear music and then... nothing... It's awkward. Still love this movie. Still looks and feels like a much bigger film than the other millenium, and Heisei, films.
Image

BlankAccount
Sazer
Posts: 12648
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:49 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by BlankAccount »

It's my first theater Godzilla film.

GINO doesn't count.

User avatar
Chrispy_G
Gotengo Officer
Posts: 1830
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 11:02 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Chrispy_G »

eabaker wrote:
SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:The characters are all amazing. The human ones shine as people in a world of monsters, a refreshingly down to earth portrayal compared to the agents of super organizations and military men that would come before and since.
This is the only Godzilla movie where I've ever walked away wishing that the central characters had been given more movies to interact in together. The dynamics among Shinoda, Miyasaka and Katagiri are really interesting, and I'd have loved to see a trilogy that really explored the motives of all three, and the way that Miysaka is torn between the other two's perspectives.
Absolutely, I've always felt that the character dynamics in this film were the most strongly drawn. To me, it feels so much like what could have been a BEGINNING....like, to see Shinoda, Io, Yuki, and Miyasaka develop over 2 more films would have been interesting. Even to do a Gamera-Trilogy-esque thing where maybe they played co-starring, or even supporting roles to new characters that came in.

With or without the enhanced US Sound Design...something about G2K always feels a bit more cinematic than anything from the 90s or 00s. Anything since Biollante. I always pretend the film is a ghost-sequel to Biollante ANYWAYS.

I saw G98 in a theater, and G2K was the first Toho movie I saw in theaters....maybe seeing it in that way is what makes it feel so grand in my memory.

I always wanted more of this one though. I would have loved to see the G2K design be used for a trilogy of films and become as distinct and known as the Heisei Design.
"I'm saying a prayer, George. A prayer for the whole world."

User avatar
Terasawa
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 5841
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Terasawa »

This movie is a real snoozer after that first Godzilla/UFO battle. :/ I also really don't like Takayuki Hattori's score at all. I hate the weak instrumentation most of all but the compositions don't fit anything on the screen.

I hate to say it but I like G2K less every time I watch it.
Last edited by Terasawa on Sat May 02, 2020 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
寺沢. He/him/his, etc.

User avatar
HedorahIsBestGirl
Gotengo Officer
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:17 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by HedorahIsBestGirl »

Terasawa wrote:This movie is a real snoozer after that first Godzilla/UFO battle. :/ I also really don't like Takayuki Hattori's score at all. I hate the weak instrumentation most of all but the compositions don't fit anything on the screen.

I hate to say it but I like G2K less every time I watch it.
That's too bad. The same thing happens to me every time I watch Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, but I still enjoy G2K.

I really enjoy Shinoda's character and his father/daughter dynamic with Io. I also enjoy his rivalry with Katagiri. That's enough to hold my attention. I agree that the movie drags a bit after the Godzilla/UFO battle, but it picks back up before I get really bored. To be honest, I find G2K more consistently engaging than all but two of the Heisei films, those being Biollante and MG2, and I still favor it over both of those films.

I have to admit, the score is one of the series' weakest. Personally, I prefer it to the scores for the Kiryu duology, but I'm aware that's a very unpopular opinion. Otherwise, it's pretty much bottom of the barrel for the series' music.
The wisest words ever spoken on TK: "When I Saw The Showa Movie's white My Friend's They seid WTF is This Your showing Me to Men Fighting In suit's they found At party city Butt when I Showed Them The Heisei film's they thoght They where pritty fun To Watch"

:Godzilla68: and :Anguirus: were never really friends.

:Hedorah: is best girl, :Baragon: is best boy

User avatar
Terasawa
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 5841
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Terasawa »

HedorahIsBestGirl wrote:
Terasawa wrote:This movie is a real snoozer after that first Godzilla/UFO battle. :/ I also really don't like Takayuki Hattori's score at all. I hate the weak instrumentation most of all but the compositions don't fit anything on the screen.

I hate to say it but I like G2K less every time I watch it.
That's too bad. The same thing happens to me every time I watch Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, but I still enjoy G2K.

I really enjoy Shinoda's character and his father/daughter dynamic with Io. I also enjoy his rivalry with Katagiri. That's enough to hold my attention. I agree that the movie drags a bit after the Godzilla/UFO battle, but it picks back up before I get really bored. To be honest, I find G2K more consistently engaging than all but two of the Heisei films, those being Biollante and MG2, and I still favor it over both of those films.
Lately I've found that I really prefer the concept of those characters and relationships to what we get in the movie. For example, movie Katagiri has virtually no humanizing characteristics: he's just a colossal jerk. Any positive or even ambiguous elements of his character are basically limited to lip service. I do like Hiroshi Abe a lot and I think he does the best he can with what he was given...

Speaking of Shinoda and Io, the father/daughter track is Hattori's best for the film. Some of the compositions (Godzilla's theme, the Full Metal Missile strike) are cool but I don't think they work well with the accompanying visuals.
I have to admit, the score is one of the series' weakest. Personally, I prefer it to the scores for the Kiryu duology, but I'm aware that's a very unpopular opinion. Otherwise, it's pretty much bottom of the barrel for the series' music.
I'm not too high on Oshima's Godzilla scores either but I think the one that was recorded with the Moscow Symphonic Orchestra (GXMG) has incredible power. I don't play that soundtrack or movie very often but it always impresses me. IMO the GFW score is the series' worst. Godzilla Raids Again is down there, too.
寺沢. He/him/his, etc.

User avatar
eabaker
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 13758
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by eabaker »

Terasawa wrote:Lately I've found that I really prefer the concept of those characters and relationships to what we get in the movie. For example, movie Katagiri has virtually no humanizing characteristics: he's just a colossal jerk. Any positive or even ambiguous elements of his character are basically limited to lip service. I do like Hiroshi Abe a lot and I think he does the best he can with what he was given...
Yeah, at the time, I was really drawn to the Shinoda/Miyasaka/Katagiri dynamic, but I walked out of the theater thinking those character relationships could have played out across a trilogy. They represent my favorite aspect of the movie, which I do overall enjoy a fair amoung, but there's definitely a missed opportunity there.
HedorahIsBestGirl wrote:
I have to admit, the score is one of the series' weakest. Personally, I prefer it to the scores for the Kiryu duology, but I'm aware that's a very unpopular opinion. Otherwise, it's pretty much bottom of the barrel for the series' music.
I'm not too high on Oshima's Godzilla scores either but I think the one that was recorded with the Moscow Symphonic Orchestra (GXMG) has incredible power. I don't play that soundtrack or movie very often but it always impresses me. IMO the GFW score is the series' worst. Godzilla Raids Again is down there, too.
Agreed on pretty much all of these points. I find Hattori's score for G2K to be passable, functional, but thoroughly unremarkable (I'd say the same about the GRA score). I like Oshima's work, but it's all very generic, never feeling specific to the scenes/story; you could take her Godzilla scores and apply them to pretty much any action/adventure movie, and they'd fit equally well.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
The One and Only
Futurian
Posts: 3450
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:58 pm
Location: Jamestown, PA

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by The One and Only »

On the subject of Hatorri's score. I quite enjoyed it. Much better than what he put together in 1994 for GODZILLA Vs. SPACE GODZILLA. In that flick it always came off weird ,and misplaced like it just didn't fit in. It had some good spots. Like at the beginning with Space G going through space towards Earth, and the building of Moguera. But honestly it just didn't work. I can't help but be reminded of Christopher Stone's score from A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 2:Freddy's Revenge ! when thinking of Space G. But his music just seems to fit 2000 better all around. At least for me.

Also, I watched G-2000 last night ,and noticed when Shindo and Io are getting dinner ready in one scene. There's some thing playing in the background. Never really noticed it before ,just thought it was a news report playing, or a documentary. I guess in the American version Michael Schlesinger, the writer, editor charged with dubbing it for an American audience decided to add another nod to American sci-fi classics by having played in the background the Ray Harryhausen classic, EARTH Vs. THE FLYING SAUCERS !, If you have a decent sound system you can hear the characters from the flick when they're talking to aliens in the film. Just thought I should share that with you.
"All literature is one of three stories: a man goes on a journey, a stranger comes to town, and Godzilla Vs. Megashark. "-Leo Tolstoy.

edgaguirus
Keizer
Posts: 8563
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:25 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by edgaguirus »

Interesting. I'll try to see if I can hear that.
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made.

The strength of the vampire is that people will not believe in him.

User avatar
shadowgigan
Futurian
Posts: 3090
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:11 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by shadowgigan »

So I watched Wakasa's interview last night and am a bit confused, hoping someone can clarify. So Wakasa, Sakai, and Nishikawa all had a hand in creating this design? Does anyone know who created the first version? I know Sakai's version was tweaked for the film.

User avatar
GigaBowserG
Vice President
Vice President
Posts: 5622
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:25 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by GigaBowserG »

shadowgigan wrote:So I watched Wakasa's interview last night and am a bit confused, hoping someone can clarify. So Wakasa, Sakai, and Nishikawa all had a hand in creating this design? Does anyone know who created the first version? I know Sakai's version was tweaked for the film.
I always thought Nishikawa drew the initial concept, Sakai made a maquette based off of it, but the suit took some serious liberties with the maquette design and turned into how it appears in the movie.
Mecha M wrote:[after seeing Shin Godzilla's design] Looks like partially cooked carne asada
/crawls back under rock

User avatar
Terasawa
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 5841
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Terasawa »

Wikizilla has some concept art of the Godzilla design, credited to Yuji Sakai. One of these is a silhouette of (approximately) the final design. Wakasa is a suit builder but I don't know if he was involved in the early concept design phase, and I'm not sure how Nishikawa fits in, either.
寺沢. He/him/his, etc.

User avatar
GigaBowserG
Vice President
Vice President
Posts: 5622
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:25 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by GigaBowserG »

Terasawa wrote:Wikizilla has some concept art of the Godzilla design, credited to Yuji Sakai. One of these is a silhouette of (approximately) the final design. Wakasa is a suit builder but I don't know if he was involved in the early concept design phase, and I'm not sure how Nishikawa fits in, either.
If you're referring to this one...
https://wikizilla.org/wiki/Godzilla_200 ... illa_2.png

That's Nishikawa. Looks like their notations are a bit outdated. Y'all really making me take out my Nishikawa drawing book?! :)

Image

According to Nishikawa, the three designs on the left (A, B, C descending) are what he drew up first. The ones on the right are various combinations of the three on the left. I think the decided design here was the one on the upper right, which primarily mixed the spines of A and the body of B, and also appears on the Japanese poster.
https://wikizilla.org/w/images/2/24/God ... Poster.jpg

Here's Sakai's sculpt based on the silhouette.
Image

Couldn't tell you how early on Wakasa may've gotten involved, though.
Mecha M wrote:[after seeing Shin Godzilla's design] Looks like partially cooked carne asada
/crawls back under rock

Post Reply