Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

[AllosaurHell]

I'm lucky to have finally found out what the fried food eaten in the movie is, it isn't rice balls, it's actually Japanese potato croquettes AKA korokke (think chunkier McDonald's hashbrowns) which are a common street food in Japan.
https://japan.recipetineats.com/korokke ... roquettes/

[Amp87]

Well we all know that was a response from Toho after the madness from the 1998 film, which to this day I love I have gotten over the hate it still receives. This was the first time we see Godzilla in messy CGI, but it was the late 90s and early 2000s when technology was being developed and not like it is today, obviously. The overall story was a bit bland honestly but Godzilla himself the new design was the best part, this was the first time we see him in color before then he was just gray. Orga was the last original enemy Toho has created since then, and he learned the hard way when he attempted to consume MireGoji.

• Pros:
  • Godzilla's design was excellent, looked more animal like.
    Orga he was original, but he was not really effective in battle.

• Cons: The overall story was bland and the CGI was suspicious, but it's understandable considering the time period.

[UltramanGoji]

Well we all know that was a response from Toho after the madness from the 1998 film

No, it wasn't. It was to bridge the gap between the 1998 film and its sequel which was delayed until 2004 and eventually cancelled in the early 00's. It was never intended as a push back to the Sony film, especially when Toho themselves knew what the film was gonna be like before release.

[Amp87]

Well we all know that was a response from Toho after the madness from the 1998 film

No, it wasn't. It was to bridge the gap between the 1998 film and its sequel which was delayed until 2004 and eventually cancelled in the early 00's. It was never intended as a push back to the Sony film, especially when Toho themselves knew what the film was gonna be like before release.

Yes it was the fan base was divided at that time and most people were upset, so Toho response and made the Millennium era films with the Godzilla we all know and love. This is Toho's fault anyway they were the ones who approved the film in the first place, and they also approved the design from Patrick Totopoulus when they meet with Toho executives in the mid 90s when they got the rights from them at this time with Emmerich. So Toho was in a bind and had to respond a couple of years later and so hence the Millennium era.

[InfiniteHollywood]

Eh, we're splitting hairs here, but Toho isn't "to blame" for any issues with the Tristar film. They may have signed off on some stuff, but they did not have complete control and did not oversee much of the film and were reportedly quite shocked at the final film. They expected something a bit better than they got. The issues with G98 weren't the designs.

As for Godzilla 2000, it absolutely was made as a response to G98 and this is well documented. But "response" could be interpreted a few ways. It wasn't necessarily done to flip off the US Godzilla film, because as mentioned, there was still loose plans for that partnership to continue. Toho would have happily played nice with more G98 sequels (though they may have pushed for more changes in subsequent films) if it meant more exposure for Godzilla and money for them. But Toho definitely knew there was a huge appetite for a "real" Godzilla film after the great marketing of the 98 film left fans globally, disappointed. And with Tristar unsure of what it wanted to do, Toho saw an opportunity. They also wanted to somewhat wash the taste of that Godzilla out of people's mouths in case Tristar never made another film and when the film did so good in Japan, Sony actually distributed it here to do some of the same and presumably get some goodwill back to the brand.

That said, Toho didn't have the rights to use "Zilla" in their own movie then. Even though they technically owned the character/designs, the creature was exclusive to Tristar for a few more years. And one does wonder had they had the rights, would they have immediately done a Godzilla versus Zilla movie and actually made a film that more or less existed to crush the American Godzilla? Certainly very likely. I suspect the only reason we never actually got one of those is because Zilla faded from fan's conscience pretty quickly, in part because of the Millennium series. By the time Toho could use Zilla in a film, it didn't really make sense to base a film around him because people had largely forgotten about him and he eventually just ended up in a brief bit in Final Wars.

[Legion1979]

The issues with G98 weren't the designs.

We're you alive in 1997 when the design of Godzilla was revealed and the insane uproar it caused? The design ABSOLUTELY was one of the issues with that film. I think too many people look at the 98 film from a TODAY perspective where Godzilla has changed a lot. In 1998 there was only one basic Godzilla design, and the negative reaction to GINO in the fandom was mindblowing.

[StardustGenius]

I was alive for the reaction to Godzilla 98. The design was absolutely the problem. But the combo wasn't JUST the design, but Godzilla being taken out so easily pissed off an upset fanbase even further.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

But Toho definitely knew there was a huge appetite for a "real" Godzilla film after the great marketing of the 98 film left fans globally, disappointed.

Not sure how true this is but I've heard that there are actually parts of the world where Godzilla '98 was the first Godzilla film released and it remains the most popular interpretation of the characters. Shocking to us Western fans, I know, but that's what I've heard.

That said, Toho didn't have the rights to use "Zilla" in their own movie then. Even though they technically owned the character/designs, the creature was exclusive to Tristar for a few more years. And one does wonder had they had the rights, would they have immediately done a Godzilla versus Zilla movie and actually made a film that more or less existed to crush the American Godzilla? Certainly very likely. I suspect the only reason we never actually got one of those is because Zilla faded from fan's conscience pretty quickly, in part because of the Millennium series.

The amount of fans who act as though Roland Emmerich personally ruined their lives makes me strongly disagree with the highlighted statement. I also doubt Toho would've made a whole movie about Godzilla vs. GINO, as enjoyably ridiculous as that would be.

[InfiniteHollywood]

The issues with G98 weren't the designs.

We're you alive in 1997 when the design of Godzilla was revealed and the insane uproar it caused? The design ABSOLUTELY was one of the issues with that film. I think too many people look at the 98 film from a TODAY perspective where Godzilla has changed a lot. In 1998 there was only one basic Godzilla design, and the negative reaction to GINO in the fandom was mindblowing.

I was. This has nothing to do with a modern day perspective. I've wrote extensively on this. The design caused an uproar, but it's wasn't even close to the main the issue with the film, which was my point.

And while there was a fair amount of uproar over the design, it wasn't that big of a deal. In fact, almost everyone was willing to give it a chance despite the general consensus that the design sucked. Saying that the design was the issue with the movie is just wrong. Had the movie been great or the monster been presented in a way that people liked, the gripes about the design would have dissipated. More of the complaints about the design surfaced after the movie came out and wasn't well received.

[StardustGenius]

HAHA you should have seen the reaction to Godzilla Final Wars when Godzilla fought Zilla. It was absolutely fresh in the minds of many fans!

[InfiniteHollywood]

The amount of fans who act as though Roland Emmerich personally ruined their lives makes me strongly disagree with the highlighted statement. I also doubt Toho would've made a whole movie about Godzilla vs. GINO, as enjoyably ridiculous as that would be.

Eh, again, I'm talking about the larger fanbase, not the overzealous people shouting from the back of the room desperate for attention. G98 came and went to the general populace and the larger fanbase moved on rather quickly, even if there were still a bunch of weirdos upset about "GINO" or whatever.

As for the proposed scenario, Toho absolutely would have. There's zero doubt in that. Because the 98 film was a gargantuan blockbuster the likes of which Toho had never had before. They would have loved to have used that design to put over the "real" Godzilla had they had the opportunity. But again, by the time they got the ability to do so, no one cared or thought about G98 anymore. Again beyond the aforementioned weirdos.

[InfiniteHollywood]

HAHA you should have seen the reaction to Godzilla Final Wars when Godzilla fought Zilla. It was absolutely fresh in the minds of many fans!

Not really. The hardcore fringe, certainly.

Most people were like "whatever" about it and there was far more talk about how it was a wasted opportunity than there were goofy fanboys jumping up and down with the "SEE I TOLD YOU HE WAS GINO!", though again, yes there WAS some of that, but it was the loud minority, not the majority.

[Legion1979]

I was alive for the reaction to Godzilla 98. The design was absolutely the problem. But the combo wasn't JUST the design, but Godzilla being taken out so easily pissed off an upset fanbase even further.

G-Fan's very first reaction to the leaked G98 design was "OUR WORST NIGHTMARE!" and the collective fandom seriously lost their shit.

[StardustGenius]

I was not a reader of G-Fan during that period, but I was in middle school or maybe highschool, and any of the friends I had who watched Godzilla movies, absolutely hated it.

By the time Godzilla 2000 came out, it was a relief, seeing it in the theaters. Having seen it again recently, I still say it holds up pretty well. Its the kind of movie the Heisei movies could have looked like if they were consistent in their production values. The composite shots are kinda bad in a several places, but the miniature work and cinematography are great. Godzilla's still Godzilla, despite being a pretty radical departure in design influence. Its clear this Godzilla is more anime influenced with all the jagged edges, colors, and head shape and eyes. But its still recognizable as Godzilla!

[Legion1979]

I was a HUGE Heisei fan as a teenager. Watched those films like crazy, had all the Bandais. They were literally my favorite films for a long time. But G2K...just didn't do it for me. I remember being bored out of my mind by it when it was released here. I don't revisit it much. There's just something about it that never clicked for me. It's just a Godzilla movie that exists.

[ebirahsmeg1]

The issues with G98 weren't the designs.

The hell it wasn't....

Added in 1 minute 55 seconds:

HAHA you should have seen the reaction to Godzilla Final Wars when Godzilla fought Zilla. It was absolutely fresh in the minds of many fans!

Not really. The hardcore fringe, certainly.

Most people were like "whatever" about it and there was far more talk about how it was a wasted opportunity than there were goofy fanboys jumping up and down with the "SEE I TOLD YOU HE WAS GINO!", though again, yes there WAS some of that, but it was the loud minority, not the majority.

Wow, this is beyond "Gas-lighting"

[Fropston]

I gotta say, I kind of hate how the vast majority of the discussion about this movie on the few occasions that it is brought up online (that I've seen, at least) ends up revolving around it as a response to '98. I rarely see people talk about the film on its own, which I mostly find disappointing because I really quite like the movie.
So, here's one thing that I enjoy about this film that I rarely see mentioned:

The color palette. The daytime scenes are obviously nothing too special, but I really like the colors in the destruction scenes. It might be a bit more generic to make Godzilla's beam more similar in color to fire, but the glow of the flames on Godzilla as he strolls through Nemuro and of course during the final scenes in Tokyo make for some of my favorite shots in the series. For some reason, I also just tend to find that G2k just looks more like how I envision a professional-made film to look compared to most of the films surrounding it chronologically. I'm not sure why that is, but it just clicks with me aesthetically in a way that GvD or even Megaguirus never did, though the latter was much closer than the former in that regard.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I gotta say, I kind of hate how the vast majority of the discussion about this movie on the few occasions that it is brought up online (that I've seen, at least) ends up revolving around it as a response to '98. I rarely see people talk about the film on its own, which I mostly find disappointing because I really quite like the movie.
So, here's one thing that I enjoy about this film that I rarely see mentioned:

The color palette. The daytime scenes are obviously nothing too special, but I really like the colors in the destruction scenes. It might be a bit more generic to make Godzilla's beam more similar in color to fire, but the glow of the flames on Godzilla as he strolls through Nemuro and of course during the final scenes in Tokyo make for some of my favorite shots in the series. For some reason, I also just tend to find that G2k just looks more like how I envision a professional-made film to look compared to most of the films surrounding it chronologically. I'm not sure why that is, but it just clicks with me aesthetically in a way that GvD or even Megaguirus never did, though the latter was much closer than the former in that regard.

Agreed with the commentary on its tedious seeing 1998 always brought up.

I think the opening scene with Godzilla in Nemuro is one of the strongest scenes in the millennium series, and a successor to the heights of the Showa and Heisei series. The film unfortunately is uneven at points after that with its destruction scenes and even how it scales Godzilla.

One thing I really appreciate about G2000 is how it’s a first film in its “cycle”/series, but despite throwing in a new monster manages to really focus on Godzilla.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

One thing I really appreciate about G2000 is how it’s a first film in its “cycle”/series, but despite throwing in a new monster manages to really focus on Godzilla.

Godzilla 2000 is one of the four Godzilla films that I consider to be almost a solo Godzilla film despite throwing another kaiju into the mix. The others are Godzilla Raids Again, vs. Biollante and vs. Megaguirus.

In GRA, Godzilla is clearly seen as the bigger threat and Anguirus gets killed off before the third act, allowing for a battle between Godzilla and humanity in the climax.

In GvB, the main focus of the film, especially the second half, is the JSDF's efforts to stop Godzilla. Biollante is just a weird consequence of research into Godzilla's DNA, who really only shows up for the two short fight scenes.

In G2K, while the UFO gets a decent amount of focus, the motivations of both the humans and the Millennian mainly revolve around Godzilla, and Orga only appears at the very end.

In GvM, like in Biollante, the main focus is on Japan's efforts to get rid of Godzilla with the Meganura merely being a side effect of research with the Dimension Tide. Megaguirus herself shows up just before the final battle and only gets slightly more screentime than Orga.

Having another kaiju for Godzilla to fight but making him the primary focus is a nice example of having your cake and eating it too. Solo Godzilla stories tend to be some of the strongest in these movies but having at least one kaiju fight makes it all that much more exciting.

[InfiniteHollywood]

Wow, this is beyond "Gas-lighting"

Nah, it's just the reality. It's easier to have perspective on these things if you don't feel G98 personally hurt you.

I'll never convince the wackadoos who are still butthurt over G98, but the vast majority of people aren't like that.

But the others are right, hard to have an actual intelligent conversation about the topic when a couple of crazies will derail it.