Official News topic

[Chrispy_G]

It's complex. For sure.

But in the vast majority of situations, nobody is 'forcing' anyone to willingly engage in sex acts. The ultimate contraceptive is abstinence. If you don't engage, you cannot get pregnant. However, that would sort of force a more moral society, a less 'free sex' society, and a more discerning and careful judge of character and the company you decide to get into bed with and even be around.

Yes, in cases of the R word, absolutely that is a DIFFERENT conversation, but I'm quite sure statistics prove that typically wasn't the vast majority of cases. I'm not out here advocating for every victim of the R word to always have to be forced to go through with the pregnancy. I'm never going to be in the 'they were asking for it' crowd either.

I just don't think we should be superficially considering the life of an unborn child...and treating abortion as if it is just "very late decision birth control".

I've known women where the decision to get an abortion once still haunts her, I also know a woman who, very casually revealed she had over a dozen, and she would absolutely tell you it was because she liked to sleep around. When this came to light, it definitely lowered my opinion of her.

The sad thing is that this gets used by manipulative men as well. If they can just talk a girl into having an abortion, then men can also just go out and engage in as much sex with as many people as possible and be free of all consequence, because if one of them gets pregnant, you can just pressure them into 'getting rid of it'. No thinking about a good woman to start a family, no consideration over whether you are ready to be a father. Just hook-up culture free and clear of any consequences.

Again, it is a complex topic. There are a lot of levels and angles to it. A society that just prioritizes pure personal pleasure and gratification and no consequence or responsibility over ALL other things is, in my opinion, not going to be a very healthy society. I don't think the 'free love' movement and the trickle down from it have been very good.

This stuff used to have meaning, you would get married to start a family and sex was a part of that. Twisting everything into being ultra-casual, ultra-superficial, free of consequence...that is a much bigger and macro discussion that goes beyond just the abortion debate, but 100% free and clear open access to abortions at any point in the pregnancy is certainly a useful tool in crafting a degraded society that doesn't put much weight or value on sex and being selective and careful about when and with whom you engage in sex. Just endlessly pursue desire and pleasure and physical gratification and never think more than 5 minutes in front of your face.

Laws do help shape society. Murder NOT being okay is a very good thing, and it having life-ruining consequences is important. If murder were legal, or not severely punished....then there would be a lot more murder, and society would be taken back to a very uncivilized state.

I'm not here to stand on some moral high horse and talk about how we need to save society from its own degeneracy or anything, but there are potentially long-term negative consequences when it comes to going down certain paths with what is permissible and what is accepted.

I also didn't care for the fact that it felt like abortion clinics were sometimes strategically aimed at and around minority communities.

But THAT going down an entirely different rabbit hole now.

I respect everyone's opinion on the matter, and there is room for every opinion, but I think I'll leave the conversation as things run the risk of getting a little too intense and wide reaching.

But with it being taken out of the hands of the federal government and put back to the states...the people will now be encouraged, perhaps forced, to have these conversations, to bring every aspect of the conversation to the table, and to collectively decide what the most responsible decision is.

[Spirit Ghidorah 2010]

So are we just gonna ignore the fact that promoting abstinence DOESN'T work?

And are we gonna ignore the fact that even outside of "free sex" (which, as we all know, totally wasn't happening before Roe v Wade was a thing), we're just gonna ignore how abortions are a medically necessary procedure in many cases, regardless of our "degeneracy" as a society?

And are we gonna ignore the fact that the states that will have the power to ban abortion have shitty sex education that still draws principles from the 1940's?

Oversimplifying the concept of reproductive right down to an argument of "free sex without consequence" is hilariously myopic. Not to mention it introduces a slippery slope of using the same argument to ban contraceptives, planned parenthood, etc. Hell, if we're gonna play the "abortion restrictions will reduce free sex" card, we might as well just ban any article of clothing that so much as reveals our ankles. Give everyone long red robes and white bonnets! Can't have hookup culture if we can't show any skin! Our new Gileadean society will be one of morals and strong family values!

[eabaker]

And are we going to let the Republican party keep ignoring the existence of the 9th amendment?

"Put it in the hands of the states" should not apply to bodily autonomy, and the fact that such freedom is not outlined in the Constitution is, according to the Constitution itself, irrelevant.

[Major sssspielberg!]

it looks like Zack Snyder was more involved in the #restorethesnyderverse campaign than he let on.
This Rolling Stone article spins a pretty interesting account of their investigation into the legitimacy of the movement, and I only posted it here in news since the implications are pretty creepy. The tl:dr is that it doesn't take too many bots to rile up a whole lot of real people.

[Chrispy_G]

And are we going to let the Republican party keep ignoring the existence of the 9th amendment?

"Put it in the hands of the states" should not apply to bodily autonomy, and the fact that such freedom is not outlined in the Constitution is, according to the Constitution itself, irrelevant.

And what of the bodily autonomy of an unborn child? What of a baby's right to have an opportunity at life?

Maybe life doesn't start at conception, but I think it sure as heck starts much sooner than delivery. Babies are born more and more premature every year. My niece was twice as premature as her father, my brother. He almost didnt make it when he was born, and she lived after only an initial scare. She is living a happy and healthy life.

Also....I like how it was worded that "promoting abstinence doesn't work"...okay, but actual abstinence does. If you don't have sex, you cannot get pregnant and that is a fact. Choices have consequences. As with most things in life, if you make poor, uneducated choices you will suffer the consequences. Hence that is why raising and educating children correctly is so important.

I was clear in saying that cases involving the R word or cases where there were medical concerns obviously change the picture.

Like I said. I am not in the "Never ever no matter what" crowd but I am also not in the "always and whenever for any reason" crowd.

And yes...society is on a degenerative path and in as many ways as we can, our culture and society needs to try and maintain a certain level of standards and morality. We're not mindless animals.

The complexity and severity of the issue has never been lost on me. I fear it is lost on others.

[eabaker]

And are we going to let the Republican party keep ignoring the existence of the 9th amendment?

"Put it in the hands of the states" should not apply to bodily autonomy, and the fact that such freedom is not outlined in the Constitution is, according to the Constitution itself, irrelevant.

And what of the bodily autonomy of an unborn child? What of a baby's right to have an opportunity at life?

Maybe life doesn't start at conception, but I think it sure as heck starts much sooner than delivery. Babies are born more and more premature every year. My niece was twice as premature as her father, my brother. He almost didnt make it when he was born, and she lived after only an initial scare. She is living a happy and healthy life.

Also....I like how it was worded that "promoting abstinence doesn't work"...okay, but actual abstinence does. If you don't have sex, you cannot get pregnant and that is a fact. Choices have consequences. As with most things in life, if you make poor, uneducated choices you will suffer the consequences. Hence that is why raising and educating children correctly is so important.

I was clear in saying that cases involving the R word or cases where there were medical concerns obviously change the picture.

Like I said. I am not in the "Never ever no matter what" crowd but I am also not in the "always and whenever for any reason" crowd.

And yes...society is on a degenerative path and in as many ways as we can, our culture and society needs to try and maintain a certain level of standards and morality. We're not mindless animals.

The complexity and severity of the issue has never been lost on me. I fear it is lost on others.

I like how my post was about people ignoring the 9th amendment, and your reply completely skipped over addressing the 9th amendment.

[Mac Daddy MM]

Hold on. I'ma derail this topic.

Also....I like how it was worded that "promoting abstinence doesn't work"...okay, but actual abstinence does.

I want to hear more of your pro-abstinence arguments, please. I'm curious.

[Chrispy_G]

Look I know I'm in the minority opinion here.

There is nothing to say. I'm absolutely in the camp of "be extremely careful and wait before you start having sex" I'm not saying force people to wait until marriage.

But..if everyone waited until marriage there would be no pregnancies outside of wedlock. Simple as that.

Just because an ideal isn't super realistic or 100% attainable does not mean we shouldn't espouse the benefits and virtues of it.

I'm not the moral police, but there are some clear "cause" and "effect" decisions that people could be a lot more careful in making.

I know I'm in the minority here. I found my faith and Conservatism as an adult. Not looking to start a flame war.

[Mac Daddy MM]

Look I know I'm in the minority opinion here.

There is nothing to say. I'm absolutely in the camp of "be extremely careful and wait before you start having sex" I'm not saying force people to wait until marriage.

But..if everyone waited until marriage there would be no pregnancies outside of wedlock. Simple as that.

Just because an ideal isn't super realistic or 100% attainable does not mean we shouldn't espouse the benefits and virtues of it.

I'm not the moral police, but there are some clear "cause" and "effect" decisions that people could be a lot more careful in making.

I know I'm in the minority here. I found my faith and Conservatism as an adult. Not looking to start a flame war.

You know how I've also never had to worry about it? I don't play with fate and finish up the deed down there when going bare. Some guys wouldn't even have kids if they weren't two pump chumps.

[miguelnuva]

Look I know I'm in the minority opinion here.

There is nothing to say. I'm absolutely in the camp of "be extremely careful and wait before you start having sex" I'm not saying force people to wait until marriage.

But..if everyone waited until marriage there would be no pregnancies outside of wedlock. Simple as that.

Just because an ideal isn't super realistic or 100% attainable does not mean we shouldn't espouse the benefits and virtues of it.

I'm not the moral police, but there are some clear "cause" and "effect" decisions that people could be a lot more careful in making.

I know I'm in the minority here. I found my faith and Conservatism as an adult. Not looking to start a flame war.

Crispy another reason people are so mad is because the GOP are the ones who are trying to get rid of abortions and at the same time they are the ones who have the money to fly to a state where it is legal and have theirs done.

I'd put decent money that the senators and representatives that are in support of making abortions illegal that Also have secret affairs are going to be the first ones to send their mistress out of state if need be.

There's a lot going on then just have sex or not.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Yeah, I'd rather not have this imagery in my mind. Let's dial it down.

[Chrispy_G]

I also don't like that it seems like some corporations would rather pay expenses for a female employee to travel to a state that allows abortion instead of paying for something like maternity leave.

It is callous and greedy to me. "We'll pay for you to not be a mother and make sure you devote as much time as possible to working for us!"

[LSD Jellyfish]

I also don't like that it seems like some corporations would rather pay expenses for a female employee to travel to a state that allows abortion instead of paying for something like maternity leave.

It is callous and greedy to me. "We'll pay for you to not be a mother and make sure you devote as much time as possible to working for us!"

Well, I mean that's sort of a strawman. Most people would agree that corporations and places should be given maternity leave as well. Maternity leave is typically a lot longer and costly than what I'm assuming is at most a week leave. I would be curious to see the overlap between businesses offering paid leave for abortions versus maternity leave.

[Spirit Ghidorah 2010]

Of all the hot takes I've seen on TK, "pro-choice businesses are against maternity leave" is one of the spicier ones.

[Mac Daddy MM]

Of all the hot takes I've seen on TK, "pro-choice businesses are against maternity leave" is one of the spicier ones.

I mean, it's not 100% wrong. And you and I agree with like 95% of everything.

[shadowgigan]

I find the abstinence arguments strange as well. I don't see the harm in telling students what amounts to...a biological truth? It doesn't mean you have to have one or the other, either. You can tell kids that the best way to avoid having children or getting STDs is to abstain from having sex, but also inform them of ways to reduce their risk exposure to such things should they choose to have sex. Idk, I find the whole discussion strange. In my view, both should be taught.

But I really came here to post about China threatening the United States over Pelosi's potential visit to Taiwan.

Now, as more of a right wing person, I've always kind of viewed Pelosi as a rival of sorts. However, a rival I respect, a worthy adversary if you will. I trust Pelosi won't back down from this. I suspect she doesn't enjoy being told what to do.

[Spirit Ghidorah 2010]

You can tell kids that the best way to avoid having children or getting STDs is to abstain from having sex, but also inform them of ways to reduce their risk exposure to such things should they choose to have sex. Idk, I find the whole discussion strange. In my view, both should be taught.

Aka, actual sex education. The problem is that many of the states that strongly restrict abortion, also stress abstinence-only education.

[eabaker]

You can tell kids that the best way to avoid having children or getting STDs is to abstain from having sex, but also inform them of ways to reduce their risk exposure to such things should they choose to have sex. Idk, I find the whole discussion strange. In my view, both should be taught.

Aka, actual sex education. The problem is that many of the states that strongly restrict abortion, also stress abstinence-only education.

Right, there's no debate around whether or not to inform kids that abstinence is an option (though I'm pretty sure most folks can put that together by themselves). There's nobody out there opposed to abstinence being taught as the best way to avoid pregnancy and STDs. The debate is only around whether or not that alone constitutes a complete and responsible sexual health education.

[_JNavs_]

What’s the chances the Taiwan trip with Pelosi results in a catastrophic response from China?

I know the Super Powers love talking big game but are usually all bark and no bite. However, it seems China’s government has been quite the uh, party lately.

[miguelnuva]

What’s the chances the Taiwan trip with Pelosi results in a catastrophic response from China?

I know the Super Powers love talking big game but are usually all bark and no bite. However, it seems China’s government has been quite the uh, party lately.

China might do something just because Putin has already done something crazy and N Korea is always threatening somebody so that's three countries right there that will back each other.

Hopefully Biden can convince Winnie Pooh that Polesi going to Takwan is harmles to him.