Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

[eabaker]

it makes it seem like Ichiro becomes a bully/delinquent.

I've never remotely understood this take. At no point does he "bully" anyone - he only ever strikes out at people more powerful than himself - and his subsequent atrocious crime of honking a horn - something a kid in his position would quite likely do under those circumstances - is something he promptly regrets.

[godjacob]

it makes it seem like Ichiro becomes a bully/delinquent.

I've never remotely understood this take. At no point does he "bully" anyone - he only ever strikes out at people more powerful than himself - and his subsequent atrocious crime of honking a horn - something a kid in his position would quite likely do under those circumstances - is something he promptly regrets.

That one random guy he dicks around for no reason at the end and did nothing to him is someone "more powerful" than him? I really don't get people defending this ending, it makes him look as bad as the people who picked on him to begin with. And it's not like it is some cautionary warning of Japanese children or something, it's treated as a happy ending.

[miguelnuva]

I see both sides of the ending, Ichiro does feel bad at the hooking the horn and he does stand up for himself but at the same time if somone took that scene as Ichiro taking over as the new gang leader and starting down the wrong path I could see thay as well.

It honestly looks like he beats up his bully them immediately gives in to peer pressure.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I've never remotely understood this take. At no point does he "bully" anyone - he only ever strikes out at people more powerful than himself - and his subsequent atrocious crime of honking a horn - something a kid in his position would quite likely do under those circumstances - is something he promptly regrets.

I've never seen this interpretation of the "horn scene" before, but you make a good point. Ichiro's action there is a childish thing to do, and nothing is particularly sinister. What follows it is obnoxious, and I feel bad for the painter, but it also is used to solidify that Ichiro is still cheeky and that his father will still stand up/be responsible in some ways. While we're on the topic, it's also a great callback. A lot of the Icihiro scenes earlier on aren't random filler, they have payoff. The guy painting the sign is set up early in the film.

In regards to the bullying, I agree. A lot of people have taken to heart that this film endorses bullying. At worst, it endorses physical retaliation against bullies and that befriending bullies is a good thing. I personally think that's a questionable morale even then, but it's not something that is so clear-cut or universally taboo. I knew tons of people growing up who were taught the exact same thing by their parents. However, what it does do is continue the theme and solidify that Ichiro needs to fight his own battles/be independent. Perhaps the film shouldn't have taken that message so literally, but it ties nicely together.

Added in 1 minute 12 seconds:

...immediately gives in to peer pressure.

I think this is the main issue for me, and despite what I wrote, I agree. It does look like Ichiro gave into peer pressure and that's a bit disheartening.

[JAGzilla]

Physical retaliation against bullies seems to have been the accepted norm back then. Hell, there was a Berenstein Bears book teaching kids that lesson. Sister Bear gets beat up by the local playground bully, and Brother teaches her to fight back, which she successfully does, and then they get the bully help from the school counselor. It was just a different time.

[Spuro]

At worst, it endorses physical retaliation against bullies... I personally think that's a questionable morale even then

Questionable my ass. That’s EXACTLY the moral that I took from this film as a little kid. “Be like Godzilla and fight back against your bullies!”

[darthzilla99]

I would like to bring up the fact that I'm not against Ichiro defending himself with physical retaliation. Up until after his fight with Gabara, he was completely in the right to defend himself, especially since he was attacked before. I think he was even justified in going on an active defense at the beginning of his last movie fight. I'm also someone that doesn't like the normal school policy of punishing the defender as well as the bully and I fully support the US state of Georgia now making it a state law that prohibits public schools from punishing students defending themselves from physical harm on school grounds.

What I am criticizing is when Ichiro pranks the painter by honking the horn for fun, him seeming to not get consequences, and now his former bullies want to be friends with him for pulling the prank.

[Terasawa]

4. Why did the robbers even kidnap Ichiro in the first place? I understand they came to get their wallet that he found but how exactly was he supposed to be their passport by kidnapping him? It's obvious they woke Ichiro up. They could have just sneak off to get their wallet without waking him.

He saw the licence and could have possibly identified one of them. They couldn't take that chance.

[Legion1979]

At worst, it endorses physical retaliation against bullies... I personally think that's a questionable morale even then

Questionable my ass. That’s EXACTLY the moral that I took from this film as a little kid. “Be like Godzilla and fight back against your bullies!”

I mean, this IS a film series featuring a hero monster beating the everloving shit out of his enemies.

[godjacob]

Again the issue isn't the kid fights back against the bullies, while this is a questionable moral what other advice could you draw from Godzilla to deal with your problems? The issue is Ichiro develops into the same type of bully as the kids, picking on people who don't deserve it. It isn't him being cheeky or "just a kid" it's him being the same kind of jerk the bullies were to him.

[eabaker]

His honking that horn cannot be classified as "bullying," because he has no power over the adult sign painter. And he is immediately remorseful for the (non-bullying, at frankly pretty tepidly "rebellious") act.

Also, the film is speaking honestly to children, and under the circumstances that is an honest representation of what a kid would likely do under the circumstances. You don't get anywhere with kids by pandering to them or sugar-coating the truth.

[godjacob]

His honking that horn cannot be classified as "bullying," because he has no power over the adult sign painter. And he is immediately remorseful for the (non-bullying, at frankly pretty tepidly "rebellious") act.

Also, the film is speaking honestly to children, and under the circumstances that is an honest representation of what a kid would likely do under the circumstances. You don't get anywhere with kids by pandering to them or sugar-coating the truth.

It becomes that and worse when the innocent guy was on a ladder doing paint work. Think you undersell how dickish this comes across and also his "remorse" is undersold by the jubilation he feels with the other bullies who accept him now as one of their own for standing up for himself.

I don't see it as an honest representation, I see it as a messy application of a moral that already was questionable even for the time.

[eabaker]

But you're working backwards, defining what you think the moral is and from there interpreting whether or not the movie succeeded at delivering it, rather than looking at what the movie actually did to determine whether or not it was meant to deliver that simplistic a moral statement in the first place (which I obviously don't believe it was).

And, come on, the painter's slapstick fall in response to the sound of a horn honking along a stretch of road? That's not a reasonably foreseeable consequence.

[godjacob]

I mean, randomly honking a horn while someone is balancing on a ladder who did nothing to you would at best be an annoyance to them for no good reason, at worst it can make them lose focus and slip for a moment which is what ended up happening. Operating ladders is not the safest, most stable platform to pull that kind of stunt on.

The movie clearly is trying to show in that seen that Ichiro had grown from the beginning of the film, just what he grew into is not the now braver young man the film wants to sell but rather a jerk who acts no different than the people who picked on him.

[eabaker]

Until we see him act against someone less powerful than himself, we absolutely cannot assert that he "acts no different than the people who picked on him."

He has matured to the point that he takes risks; now he must begin to learn the consequences of his actions. That's how growing up works; kids make mistakes.

[godjacob]

But it is not presented as a mistake, it is presented as him being "one of the boys" and treated like a happy ending. Any guilt he felt over it fades as soon as it rises once the other kids accept his needlessly dickish act.

Doesn't make him more endearing or honest a character, it just gives people less reason to like him which given his story is the backbone of this film is not a good thing if that is what people come away with.

[eabaker]

No, it's absolutely presented as being a mistake, while also as a tactic that makes him "one of the boys" (and in real life, it would be both). The movie is not as simplistic as you're insisting it is.

[godjacob]

Whether it is simplistic or not was never my point, if it is presented as a "mistake" it is incredibly glossed over as the film more focuses on him getting the respect of the kids who previously picked on him. That is the movie saying he grew, just what he grew into isn't likeable and defiantly isn't worth sitting through this movie to see as a payoff.

Also this is a film where child kidnappers are written similarly to the bumbling thieves from Home Alone. The movie is not nearly as deep as you think it is either, which given this is a film exclusively aimed at kids and a younger demographic isn't shocking. Nor the source of any of my issues with it.

[eabaker]

I never called the movie deep, or said anything suggesting that it was. I said it was honest about children's experiences.

[Terasawa]

He hasn't grown, though, and the movie isn't trying to say he has. He's just learned that he doesn't have to run away from his bullies. His world otherwise hasn't changed at all: he's still just as likely to die in a traffic accident or develop cancer from the industrial smog that envelopes his town. He's going to be scolded or punished by his father the next time dad is home.

The movie doesn't treat his independence as a victory, either: he leaves for school telling his mother "it would be nice if you and dad were around, but I can manage on my own," followed by his mother crying. The only triumphant aspect of the ending is the music.

Ichiro's world is complex because Honda and Sekizawa wanted it to reflect the real world of the target audience. They correctly don't grant Ichiro a solution to the societal problems he and his family have to face.