Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
Wait, you have PTSD from people disliking things you like?
Since we all have varying opinions, there's always going to be complaints about *all* of the films. To suggest that we don't enjoy Godzilla because of this, or that this makes us a bunch of self-absorbed asshats, is just ridiculous. Get a grip.
Since we all have varying opinions, there's always going to be complaints about *all* of the films. To suggest that we don't enjoy Godzilla because of this, or that this makes us a bunch of self-absorbed asshats, is just ridiculous. Get a grip.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
I do not understand why you think that an interest in critiquing the films necessarily indicates any lack of enjoyment. Part of the enjoyment for a lot of us comes from that analysis.GodzillaDude wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:06 am It’s just bewildering as a lifelong Godzilla fan since I was a baby that other fans wouldn’t at least get half that satisfaction or enjoyment out of it that makes it easier for me to look over some written inconsistencies throughout.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
PTSD was meant to be a little joke, an exaggeration from my said minor headache. Sorry you missed that. So I’ll throw your line back at ya…get a grip?Rando Yaguchi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:24 am Wait, you have PTSD from people disliking things you like?
Since we all have varying opinions, there's always going to be complaints about *all* of the films. To suggest that we don't enjoy Godzilla because of this, or that this makes us a bunch of self-absorbed asshats, is just ridiculous. Get a grip.
And still the majority of posts and replies I see aren’t talking about positive things except in passing. It’s just ironic. There’s still some I see having good discussions and analyzing things they enjoy about them though.
As I’ve been having to clarify I just think it’s ironic that more times spent on here digging into things we don’t like rather than the things we do.eabaker wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:30 amI do not understand why you think that an interest in critiquing the films necessarily indicates any lack of enjoyment. Part of the enjoyment for a lot of us comes from that analysis.GodzillaDude wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:06 am It’s just bewildering as a lifelong Godzilla fan since I was a baby that other fans wouldn’t at least get half that satisfaction or enjoyment out of it that makes it easier for me to look over some written inconsistencies throughout.
Added in 2 minutes 57 seconds:
By the way I enjoy talking about problems I have with them too but it’s not the center of what I say about them. And I made this a new reply because there was an error of not letting another edit go t through.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
I figured as much, just thought I'd ask. Doesn't make what your saying any less nonsensical.GodzillaDude wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:35 amPTSD was meant to be a little joke, an exaggeration from my said minor headache. Sorry you missed that. So I’ll throw your line back at ya…get a grip?
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
Please see what else I said to the other dude just below what I said to you. Just all seems weird that more time’s spent talking about issues which can be fun to a point rather than digging into the things we actually like or love about them.Rando Yaguchi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:47 amI figured as much, just thought I'd ask. Doesn't make what your saying any less nonsensical.GodzillaDude wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:35 amPTSD was meant to be a little joke, an exaggeration from my said minor headache. Sorry you missed that. So I’ll throw your line back at ya…get a grip?
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
You do raise an interesting point here. I don't want to spend too much time on it, because this thread has gotten a little derailed, but when it coms right down to it I think there are a couple of factors as play here.GodzillaDude wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:35 am As I’ve been having to clarify I just think it’s ironic that more times spent on here digging into things we don’t like rather than the things we do.
1.) Criticism stimulates more conversation than praise does. You say you like an element of a movie, and even if you go into some depth about how and why it works, you tend to be met with a lot of "me, too" replies. Point out something that didn't work for you, though, and you give others the opportunity to come back with why that aspect did work for them, or what other strengths they see in the movie that correct for that failing. I've had my appreciation for movies heightened by reading responses to my criticisms, and ultimately I think we all want to like every one of these movies.
2.) You don't always notice what works. It's the "Classic Coke" phenomenon (something my first screenwriting teacher used to talk about a lot): When something gets a formula exactly right, the market isn't aware of the formula at all. You don't taste the ingredients, you just taste Coke. When an imitator gets the formula a little wrong, though, suddenly you taste a combination of unpleasant chemical flavors. Likewise, when a Godzilla movie is right up a given fan's alley, that fan might not be looking at all the component pieces - when a story works just right, the typical audience member should be seeing the forest, not the trees. When things go wrong, all of a sudden it's all trees.
And I think Destoroyah is a good example for this discussion, because it's a movie with several really impressive "trees," but for many viewers there's not exactly a "forest" there. I honestly love the movie, but I can't deny that there are elements of it that frustrate me.
Last edited by eabaker on Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
I appreciate the thoughtful response and feel you worded both sides finely! For me it came together as a whole pretty well or as a forest as you suggested but you’re right in general criticism or negative thoughts seem to get more talk going which I guess is a good and bad thing. Appreciate you!eabaker wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:59 amYou do raise an interesting point here. I don't want to spend too much time on it, because this thread has gotten a little derailed, but when it coms right down to it I think there are a couple of factors as play here.GodzillaDude wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:35 am As I’ve been having to clarify I just think it’s ironic that more times spent on here digging into things we don’t like rather than the things we do.
1.) Criticism stimulates more conversation than praise does. You say you like an element of a movie, and even if you go into some depth about how and why it works, you tend to be met with a lot of "me, too" replies. Point out something that didn't work for you, though, and you give others the opportunity to come back with why that aspect did work for them, or what other strengths they see in the movie that correct for that failing. I've had my appreciation for movies heightened by reading responses to my criticisms, and ultimately I think we all want to like every one of these movies.
2.) You don't always notice what works. It's the "Classic Coke" phenomenon (something my first screenwriting teacher used to talk about a lot): When something gets a formula exactly right, the market isn't aware of the formula at all. You don't taste the ingredients, you just taste Coke. When an imitator gets the formula a little wrong, though, suddenly you taste a combination of unpleasant chemical flavors. Likewise, when a Godzilla movie is right up a given fan's alley, that fan might not be looking at all the component pieces - when a story works just right, the typical audience member should be seeing the forest, not the trees. When things go wrong, all of a sudden it's all trees.
And I think Destoroyah is a good example for this discussion, because it's a movie with several really impressive "trees," but for many viewers there's not exactly a "forest" there. I honestly love the movie, but I can't deny that there are elements of it that frustrate me.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
Godzilla vs Destroyah has one extremely big tree at the very far edge of a really dismal and half baked forest. But the tree is so big, so manipulative and tries so hard to make you into a weeping willow, that you end up believing the entire forest is some majestic magical enchanted thing, when it's really not.
Or something like that.
Or something like that.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
Criticism doesn't make a discussion bad, but poor criticism can. Most people on this forum are pretty darn thoughtful in their criticism, and the discussions can get really interesting. I hope you can see the distinction now, GodzillaDude.
See? That's pretty damn good.Legion1979 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:08 pm Godzilla vs Destroyah has one extremely big tree at the very far edge of a really dismal and half baked forest. But the tree is so big, so manipulative and tries so hard to make you into a weeping willow, that you end up believing the entire forest is some majestic magical enchanted thing, when it's really not.
Or something like that.
Last edited by Rando Yaguchi on Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
Lol Not saying it’s perfect objectively but everything it did right which is a lot to me definitely overshadows it and makes it more than worth it.Legion1979 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:08 pm Godzilla vs Destroyah has one extremely big tree at the very far edge of a really dismal and half baked forest. But the tree is so big, so manipulative and tries so hard to make you into a weeping willow, that you end up believing the entire forest is some majestic magical enchanted thing, when it's really not.
Or something like that.
Yes just takes a lot of weaving sometimes. Lol Anyway no bad vibes, still glad to be back on.Rando Yaguchi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:22 pm Criticism doesn't make a discussion bad, but poor criticism can. Most people on this forum are pretty darn thoughtful in their criticism, and the discussions can get really interesting. I hope you can see the distinction now, GodzillaDude.
Last edited by GodzillaDude on Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
Does anyone think it would make sense if Godzilla looked a lot more disfigured considering the state he was in? Because other than the red patches all over his body, there was really nothing else to indicate something was wrong. He would look a lot more Shin-like realistically.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
You mean the red patches being connected by series of cracks that expose burnt or blistered skin? That would give a bigger impression of being over exposed to radiation, but his behavior did that just as well. Godzilla clearly shows his pain through his movement and his aggressive lashing out at the things around him. In the introduction, you get the impression that Godzilla's not firing his ray at specific targets but is doing it out of irritation and pain. Shots hit nothing but open water as well as structures.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
For all the complaints one may have over the Heisei era as a whole, there's one thing you gotta give it credit for. They made Godzilla a sympathetic character who went through an arc (at least as much as non-speaking, non-human character realistically can). It shined out the most in this movie. If anything, this era is most likely why I'm a sucker for when they treat Godzilla as more than just a destructive monster.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
But...isn't Godzilla a sympathetic character who goes through an arc in the Showa series too? The only thing Destroyah did that was unique was to kill off Godzilla in an emotionally manipulative way.LegendZilla wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:29 pm For all the complaints one may have over the Heisei era as a whole, there's one thing you gotta give it credit for. They made Godzilla a sympathetic character who went through an arc (at least as much as non-speaking, non-human character realistically can). It shined out the most in this movie. If anything, this era is most likely why I'm a sucker for when they treat Godzilla as more than just a destructive monster.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
Godzilla's arc in the Showa era was done in a much more cartoonish superhero matter, as to be expected from the era. Look I know it's been always hip and cool to shit all over the Heisei series for all it's worth, especially around here. However, what would you think if someone showed the the same attitude, only towards GMK and Shin?Legion1979 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 8:54 pmBut...isn't Godzilla a sympathetic character who goes through an arc in the Showa series too? The only thing Destroyah did that was unique was to kill off Godzilla in an emotionally manipulative way.LegendZilla wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:29 pm For all the complaints one may have over the Heisei era as a whole, there's one thing you gotta give it credit for. They made Godzilla a sympathetic character who went through an arc (at least as much as non-speaking, non-human character realistically can). It shined out the most in this movie. If anything, this era is most likely why I'm a sucker for when they treat Godzilla as more than just a destructive monster.
I just happen to be one of those people in case you don't already know. The main difference is treating those films with the same critical eye as you do for this movie (and the Heisei era as a whole) is considered blasphemous. I am not asking you to think what I think, just try to examine other people's perspectives.
To be honest, I find most of Neon Genesis Evangelion emotionally manipulative. To see how I feel take a look at my posts in the thread dedicated to that series.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:28 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
Godzilla had no arc of any kind, he was an animal and an antagonist the entire series. He had personality, but never went through an arc.LegendZilla wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:29 pm For all the complaints one may have over the Heisei era as a whole, there's one thing you gotta give it credit for. They made Godzilla a sympathetic character who went through an arc (at least as much as non-speaking, non-human character realistically can). It shined out the most in this movie. If anything, this era is most likely why I'm a sucker for when they treat Godzilla as more than just a destructive monster.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
I'm gonna say this to you Legion : It's one thing to have an opinion on a certain movie or anything, but the problem is if one presents it in a condescending manner. We don't want to feel lesser for liking something another person dislikes or vice versa. I'm not trying to talk down to you, but take this as advice. If you present your opinions in a more nuanced manner, It would improve others in their critiquing abilities if they can hear you out.
This coming from a strongly biased and opinionated person.
This coming from a strongly biased and opinionated person.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
Literally nothing in Legion's post is condescending.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
Maybe not for those critical of the Heisei series as a whole, but it is for those who do like said films. Just thought I'd show my perspective.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)
.....seriously, what the hell, Legendzilla?
And yet...you had absolutely no issue with ShinGojira14's comment, which was pretty much the same thing I said? If I was going to be condescending, I would have been a lot more obvious about it.
It's absolutely mind blowing how defensive some people are.
And yet...you had absolutely no issue with ShinGojira14's comment, which was pretty much the same thing I said? If I was going to be condescending, I would have been a lot more obvious about it.
It's absolutely mind blowing how defensive some people are.
Last edited by Legion1979 on Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.