Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

For the discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released from 1999 to 2015.

GXMG is...

Great
94
31%
Good
126
42%
Okay
55
18%
Poor
22
7%
Awful
5
2%
 
Total votes: 302

User avatar
CrimsonBloodX
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:41 pm
Location: The Rings of Saturn

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by CrimsonBloodX »

Well, that "never before seen featurette direct from Japan" was a lie. It was just the Godzilla vs. Hedorah short film with a behind the scenes bonus.

Anyway, yeah, I watched Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla last night. It was awesome watching this movie in the theatre. It's like I went back in time to 2002 Japan. The picture quality wasn't that good, though, but whatever. What a great way to celebrate this film's 20th anniversary.
"You are the Arbiter. The will of the Prophets. But these are my Elites. Their lives matter to me. Yours does not."

"That makes two of us."

My YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaJhff ... 7ZcLGnZkaA?
My Twitter - https://twitter.com/Nintendozilla98

RELEASE THE AYER CUT!

2A, Shall Not Be Infringed

"The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown." - Howard Phillips Lovecraft

User avatar
UltramanGoji
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 17719
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:40 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by UltramanGoji »

CrimsonBloodX wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:20 am Well, that "never before seen featurette direct from Japan" was a lie. It was just the Godzilla vs. Hedorah short film with a behind the scenes bonus.
Weeeeelll...it's not technically a lie as the behind the scenes feature was actually fairly new. There's one online but apparently it was different from the one shown in theaters.

I didn't get the chance to catch it in theaters (no theaters within driving distance were showing it, including the one I work at) but I did watch it anyway last night. It wasn't as good as I remembered, still a good movie overall but full of a lot of great ideas not nearly given the substance required to make them genuinely great. It's a very sterile movie, by-the-numbers at a very base level but it does have a certain personality to it that makes it somewhat endearing and I can see why many fans love this one.
Image

Legion1979
Justiriser
Posts: 15857
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by Legion1979 »

I think the movie works much better as part 1 of a larger story than as a standalone film.

User avatar
MogeGoji1994
Monarch Researcher
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:44 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by MogeGoji1994 »

Rewatched this movie at the theatres last night, and I absolutely loved it! Seeing the Hedorah short on the big screen was really cool, and the behind-the-scenes footage was very interesting and fascinating. I thought the note the director gave the suit actor to act more like Heisei Godzilla very interesting. It was clear the people working on this short cared a lot about Godzilla and recapturing the magic of suitmation. The recent Gigan short furthers this with how much of a step up it is to Hedorah's.

On GxMG, I loved it! This movie, while not a work of art, I felt was a very tight movie that knew what it was. The human cast was likeable and very enjoyable, and the movie did not waste time between the monster scenes. Godzilla's introduction and Kiryu's rampage were awesome to see on the big screen. Watching Kiryu fly in to body check Godzilla during the final fight was both exciting and a little funny. I really liked the monster action, and the physical effects were really good. The CGI used on Kiryu didn't look the best, and Godzilla was a little static, but overall I really enjoyed rewatching this movie. It being in a theatre made it even more fun!
Resized Image
You want S.T.A.R.S? I'll give you S.T.A.R.S!
7 minutes. 7 minutes is all I can spare to play with you

User avatar
Rody
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 5577
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:55 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by Rody »

While I didn't get a chance to see this film on the big screen, I did make sure to revisit it this week in honor of it's 20th anniversary.

I think I've come around to saying this film is pretty good - or, at least, it feels pretty good. The pacing is tight, to the film's benefit; nothing really rushes through or drags on. Michiru Oshima's score is excellent, bar none - without a doubt her music is a staple of modern Godzilla iconography. I had fun watching the film start to finish, and I generally find the stakes compelling and the action striking.
To be fairly critical, however, there are a lot of issues at the writing level that keep the film from being something special. Kiryu's berserker tendency absolutely should have been brought back in a major way for the climax; as it is, it amounts to nothing more than a cool sequence which causes a little delay just for some tension at the start of the third act. The characters do indeed feel like anime action stereotypes, and could really use a little more fleshing out and refining, Akane included. This movie also has some of the more obvious moments of exposition I can think of in the franchise, which is not a good thing. The action is generally good, but the quality of the actual effects often can't match what the shots/scenes are trying to accomplish. Ultimately, the whole story ends on what feels like a cliffhanger, without acknowledging it: Akane's arc has completed, and Japan has a proven weapon to fight Godzilla, but what about the ambiguities around the Kiryu project? Are we really going to just forget Kiryu went berserk now?

Overall, I find this a fun film, but a very flawed one. Even though the sequel wasn't envisioned yet, I agree with sentiments that certain plot points which come up later should have been explored and resolved here in the first place.
That Oshima score, though... *chef's kiss*

User avatar
GoldenGoat2000
Yojimbo
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:51 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by GoldenGoat2000 »

Overall, this movie is great. The human plot is nice, the practical effects are easily some of the best of any suitmation Godzilla movie. Just an overall really nice film.

User avatar
LegendZilla
Sazer
Posts: 10355
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:57 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by LegendZilla »

Does anyone think that Yumiko Shaku would make for a good villainous role?

User avatar
SonOfGorgo
G-Grasper
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:44 am
Location: Monarch Outpost 100

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by SonOfGorgo »

LegendZilla wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:18 pm Does anyone think that Yumiko Shaku would make for a good villainous role?
How so? Just outta curiosity
Image
Still the best, 1955... 8-)

User avatar
LegendZilla
Sazer
Posts: 10355
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:57 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by LegendZilla »

SonOfGorgo wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:24 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:18 pm Does anyone think that Yumiko Shaku would make for a good villainous role?
How so? Just outta curiosity
I don't know, maybe it's that passionate, stern and authoritative vibe she gives in this film.

User avatar
Voyager
Keizer
Posts: 7828
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:34 pm
Location: On a boat

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by Voyager »

LegendZilla wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:26 pm
SonOfGorgo wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:24 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:18 pm Does anyone think that Yumiko Shaku would make for a good villainous role?
How so? Just outta curiosity
I don't know, maybe it's that passionate, stern and authoritative vibe she gives in this film.
I didn’t get stern and authoritative from her. She felt depressed and guilty above all else.
Image
For Emperor and Empire!

User avatar
LegendZilla
Sazer
Posts: 10355
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:57 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by LegendZilla »

^Feelings of guilt and depression can push anyone over the edge.

User avatar
JAGzilla
Sazer
Posts: 11817
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:45 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by JAGzilla »

LegendZilla wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:02 pm ^Feelings of guilt and depression can push anyone over the edge.
True. I can definitely see a character like Akane go overboard in trying to fix their past mistakes, becoming a danger themself in the process. I'm sure a ton of characters like that exist, but I can't immediately think of them.
"Stop wars and no more accidents. I guess that's all I can ask." -Akio

User avatar
G-Matt
Futurian
Posts: 3898
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:10 am
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by G-Matt »

LegendZilla wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:18 pm Does anyone think that Yumiko Shaku would make for a good villainous role?
I think she actually played a villain in one of the more recent Kamen Rider series.
G2000 wrote:Rebuild of Evangelion 3.0 + 1.0: You Did (Not) Expect Godzilla, Did You

User avatar
SpiderZilla
Monarch Researcher
Posts: 378
Joined: Sun May 08, 2022 10:14 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by SpiderZilla »

JAGzilla wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:14 am
LegendZilla wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:02 pm ^Feelings of guilt and depression can push anyone over the edge.
True. I can definitely see a character like Akane go overboard in trying to fix their past mistakes, becoming a danger themself in the process. I'm sure a ton of characters like that exist, but I can't immediately think of them.
Lt. Col. Preston Packard (Samuel L. Jackson) in Kong: Skull Island comes to mind.

User avatar
LegendZilla
Sazer
Posts: 10355
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:57 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by LegendZilla »

G-Matt wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:44 am
LegendZilla wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:18 pm Does anyone think that Yumiko Shaku would make for a good villainous role?
I think she actually played a villain in one of the more recent Kamen Rider series.
I looked it up and she was in Kamen Rider twice. She did in fact play a villain in one of them.

User avatar
HedorahIsBestGirl
Gotengo Officer
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:17 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by HedorahIsBestGirl »

My thoughts on this film can best be summarized by this meme quote...

"We were on the verge of greatness. We were this close..." - Director Krennic

Seriously, with a few tweaks this could be one of the all-time greats. Instead, it's middle of the road for me, and every praise I want to give it comes with a BUT.

I'm finally willing to conform to the majority consensus that Akane is a better protagonist than the uncannily similar Kiriko from GxM. She's better written and better acted. BUT the rest of the cast does nothing for me. Frankly, I don't like Yuhara very much. His relentless flirtation with an obviously disinterested (not to mention much younger) Kiriko is annoying at best and creepy at worst.

The special effects work is mostly great. This is the first Millennium movie without any egregiously bad CGI. I love the Godzilla and Kiryu suits, and the beam animations for the various rays/masers/etc. are some of the best in the whole genre. BUT some of the bluescreen effects are pretty bad, especially when compared to the film's immediate predecessor, GMK.

Oshima's score is nice and bombastic, definitely a highlight of the film. BUT I don't think it's the masterpiece some fans make it out to be; it's a bit repetitive and it doesn't hold a candle to the rockin' music from GMK. I'm sorry, I just watched GMK and GxMG back to back, I can't avoid comparing them.

The action scenes are the best part of the film. Godzilla's first emergence at Tateyama is very well-shot and Kiryu's rampage through Tokyo is a nice twist. Of course, the final battle takes the cake here. I've now rewatched 26 of these damn films in a row, in quick succession, and I'm tempted to give GxMG the golden trophy for "Best Climactic Fight Scene." From a narrative perspective, from a choreography perspective, from a cinematography perspective, from an effects perspective, it's really just incredible. No BUTs on this one.

BUT... I do have one more BUT. I feel like Godzilla quickly retreating from his first battle with Kiryu is hugely out of character. Especially when contrasted to his traditional, uber-aggressive behavior during their rematch. It's bothered me every time I watched the movie. I like the idea of Godzilla's roar triggering Kiryu's rampage but - for the sake of staying true to Godzilla's "advances when attacked" persona - I think this scene might've played better if something else had caused Kiryu to run wild. Plus, it would've kept the build-up to Godzilla's grand return going for all the longer, and I'm a sucker for long build-ups with dramatic payoff.

Overall, a 3/5 Godzilla movie that could easily be a 4/5 Godzilla movie with a few little adjustments.
Last edited by HedorahIsBestGirl on Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.
The wisest words ever spoken on TK: "When I Saw The Showa Movie's white My Friend's They seid WTF is This Your showing Me to Men Fighting In suit's they found At party city Butt when I Showed Them The Heisei film's they thoght They where pritty fun To Watch"

:Godzilla68: and :Anguirus: were never really friends.

:Hedorah: is best girl, :Baragon: is best boy

StardustGenius
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 1090
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:24 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by StardustGenius »

I legit think the bluescreen effects look way better than the ones in GMK, by a mile. Godzilla emerging out of the harbor looked particularly bad to my eyes. In comparison to the various composite shots in Godzilla's rampage in the rain in this movie, I felt that was damn near life like.

Kou Otani's score is pretty good, "better" one can say. I don't think its as memorable though. I can only think of the opening song, the leitmotif whenever Godzilla shows up. I can't say that about Michiru Oshima's. I know exactly what is happening if that music is cued on a music player.

Lots of buts I can understand but they never bothered me, (with the exception of Shattered Glass Okamura creeping on poor Akane).
Last edited by StardustGenius on Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Legion1979
Justiriser
Posts: 15857
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by Legion1979 »

Regarding the music. I really like Kow Otani's Gamera scores, but his GMK score is way too electronic for my tastes, and repeats the Godzilla theme a little too relentlessly. Oshima's Godzilla theme, meanwhile, is really fantastic and she really topped herself with Tokyo SOS. Her prologue/opening title music for that film is one of the absolute high points of the Millennium series.

StardustGenius
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 1090
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:24 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by StardustGenius »

Michiru Oshima is on par with Masaru Sato I think. A distinct, but varied and balanced approach to Godzilla, and film/media scores in general. Legend of Zelda, Little Witch Adademia, Full Metal Alchemist, SAILOR MOON!

Kow Otani's scores are great, but a bit repetive to my ear. Gundam Wing, GMK, Gamera, Another, they're all good scores, but yes they are a bit repetive. I think the only major gripe I have with this movie, outside this dude hitting on Akane, is Godzilla's first reaction to getting shot at by Kiryu is just stand there. I'd get if he no-sold it like a pro wrestler, but even tough wrestling monsters, or stone pitbull underdogs blink or react or something. If Godzilla, remained unflinched, but shook his head slightly "Is that it?" I'd have have appreciated that way more.

edgaguirus
Keizer
Posts: 8563
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:25 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by edgaguirus »

Some characterization would have helped that part of the movie. Maybe show Godzilla with a reaction of curiosity or confusion after being hit, like he doesn't know what to make of this foe that feels familiar in some way.
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made.

The strength of the vampire is that people will not believe in him.

Post Reply