WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

For the discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released before 1980.
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What is your stance on original series (1955-1975) Godzilla films?

I consider these films flawless masterpieces.
5
5%
I love these films.
62
67%
I like these films.
15
16%
I am neutral on these films.
3
3%
I dislike these films.
2
2%
I strongly dislike these films.
1
1%
I literally hate these films.
2
2%
I have never seen these films.
2
2%
 
Total votes: 92

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Mac Daddy MM
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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by Mac Daddy MM »

eabaker wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:25 pm Okay, this thread seems to be a low-key trolling "gotcha" response to the equivalent Heisei thread, and so far it has largely consisted of snark and sniping. Clean up your acts pronto.
No joke, I may have been a little... hazy... when I made this thread and did my responses, lol. Glad to see it's becoming an actual conversation though.


Quote of the Year:
plasmabeam wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:03 am Hear me out on this. What if Godzilla is actually Suko’s father? In GvK when Godzilla defeated Kong and they were roaring at each other, what if Godzilla inseminated Kong at that moment and that’s why they were screaming?

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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by darthzilla99 »

Legion1979 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:38 am
Spuro wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:26 am
Legion1979 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:55 am True. I guess we ARE now in a time where "Godzilla fans" might have only ever seen 3 American made CGI heavy films.
The prices that some of the older physical releases go for these days doesn't help matters there.


Come again? There are only three Japanese Godzilla films that aren't currently in print on disc. In fact, all the Showa films are not only on physical media in one box set, but 14 out of 15 of them (KKvsG excepted) are streaming on HBO Max AND are legally up on YouTube for FREE. Plus, many of them air pretty regularly on Comet TV. And all the films made between 1993 and 2004 are still available in bluray sets that cost $12 a pop on Amazon.

It's never been easier to see the majority of this series.
In this age of streaming, there's alot of people who won't pay more than redbox prices for a movie they have never seen before or potentially watch only once. Alot of young people consider it a potential rip off if they spend $5 for a movie and turns out they didn't enjoy it.

And this is my own anecdote, but alot of young Godzilla fans like the movies and comics because of the kaiju. I'm not just talking kaiju action scenes. They want to see Godzilla be treated like a super hero/antihero or anime protagonist that goes through elaborate character development and arcs, grow character relationships with other kaiju, learns life lessons and abilities, have Ghidorah be a big villain antagonist, ect... Some young fans don't necessarily care about the random symbolism of say the Red bamboo being a stand in for China, GMK's message of not forsaking the past, or King Kong vs Godzilla being an absurdist parody of capitalism.

And to be honest, that's okay too.
GVK: TNE is a modern day 70s Showa Godzilla movie. Being a massive budget modern blockbuster CGI film instead of traditional 70s tokusatsu techniques doesn't change that. Fight me.

Anguirus and Godzilla being friends in the Showa series is cannon. Deal with it.

Monsterverse is not similar to either MCU nor Bayformers just because all three are big budget CGI blockbuster franchises.

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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by edgaguirus »

It's not hate, but a lack of interest in Showa films, then.
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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by Voyager »

darthzilla99 wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:46 pm
And this is my own anecdote, but alot of young Godzilla fans like the movies and comics because of the kaiju. I'm not just talking kaiju action scenes. They want to see Godzilla be treated like a super hero/antihero or anime protagonist that goes through elaborate character development and arcs, grow character relationships with other kaiju, learns life lessons and abilities, have Ghidorah be a big villain antagonist, ect...
That would explain a lot, actually. Newer Kaiju fans thinking of the series like an Anime or hell, even like the MCU explains a lot of the stuff I see on the Western side of the Fandom, especially on places like Twitter or Reddit.
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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by JAGzilla »

@darthzilla: Then shouldn't the Showa movies be right up their alley?
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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by darthzilla99 »

JAGzilla wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:40 pm @darthzilla: Then shouldn't the Showa movies be right up their alley?
You'd think so, but no. I think part of it maybe because of the perceived continuity of Heisei making it seem like Godzilla has an overarching character narrative if that makes sense. Showa is more sporadic since continuity was loose and done on a movie by movie (not to say Heisei had much of it either, but the continuity gives the allusion to new fans). I know it's double standards but interconnected film series is the norm if you think about the big modern popular film and television franchises like most Shonen animes, the mcu, Harry Potter movies, Star Wars, Avatar the last air bender, the DCAU, The hunger games,, Spiderman movies, The Dark Knight trilogy, The Transformers movies despite the horrible mess, Daniel Craig 007 movies, ect....
GVK: TNE is a modern day 70s Showa Godzilla movie. Being a massive budget modern blockbuster CGI film instead of traditional 70s tokusatsu techniques doesn't change that. Fight me.

Anguirus and Godzilla being friends in the Showa series is cannon. Deal with it.

Monsterverse is not similar to either MCU nor Bayformers just because all three are big budget CGI blockbuster franchises.

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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by Legion1979 »

I think its a simple as the movies being older and looking primitive. I don't think the Heisei continuity is as big a factor as people think it is.

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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by Rody »

I'm pretty sure I've seen discussions and articles in the last couple of years addressing a growing issue that a lot of "older" film content in general - anything older than the late 70s, basically - is simply not getting much viewership anymore. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of newer Godzilla fans (especially those introduced through the Monsterverse series) don't give the Showa films more than a cursory glance just for being "old and primitive" like Legion said.

As for me? Over the past 15+ years, every time I've revisited the franchise I've found myself gravitating more and more towards the Showa films, particularly the 1960s period. No, these films (or at least most of them) aren't flawless masterpieces; but in general their writing, effects quality, pacing and thematic undertones just work for me better than most everything else that followed. I don't think I ever hated any of the Showa films, but even the weakest films from that era have their own strengths I can appreciate now.

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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by Legion1979 »

Beautifully said. That's exactly where I am with the Showa films as well.

But its as simple as what you said. As time passes (the newest Showa film is almost a half century old), newer and younger fans get into Godzilla and the Monsterverse continues to be the thing that gets them into it, the older films are going to look more and more...well, OLD.

While the Heisei films aren't new either, they still look a little more recent. But their hat trick is that they're bombastic. Bigger stronger Godzilla, bigger stronger enemy monsters, louder Ifukube scores, flashy light shows, etc. Far more than nostalgia, continuity or quality, there's a reason the 90s films keep finding an audience in this country. Same reason I loved them as a teen. They're big, they're loud and they're flashy. But I think even that's not going to save them from being thought of as lame older films one day by a generation raised on CGi and movies like KOTM and Godzilla vs Kong.

How often these days do you see Showa Godzilla films (or even certain suit designs and monsters) some of us used to considerer the very best being called overrated? Often enough, right? That's going to keep happening.

While Godzilla as a whole will never be as mainstream as Marvel or Star Wars, and parts of it will always be niche, there's a significant chunk of Godzilla now that's a legitimate AMERICAN franchise. That's going to change everything when it comes to how new fans approach these movies and what they think of its history.

To me part of what made Godzilla special died when the Monstetverse was successful enough to warrant sequels. But that's just me. I'm that guy.
Last edited by Legion1979 on Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by edgaguirus »

While I like all the eras of Godzilla, the Showa will always be special for me. Good CGI makes for interesting visuals, but the suits, models, and effects of that era still work for me, and the array of stories and ideas were entertaining and sometimes inventive.
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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by Red-Death Gigan »

Voted "Like These". Several Showa films still are enjoyable & hold-up fairly well, others... not so much. Godzilla's Revenge I could go the rest of my life w/out ever watching again. Ebirah Horror of the Deep & Invasion of the Astro Monster are the opposite, I'll watch them once or twice a year.
Last edited by Red-Death Gigan on Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:46 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by Kaltes-Herzeleid »

Hating Showa is fake and gay.
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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by LegendZilla »

I do love these movies mostly and nostalgia plays a big part. What I don't like however is people within the fandom getting all smug and elitist over them.

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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by MaxRebo320 »

Nostalgia does play a part in my love for these movies, absolutely. But I grew up in the mid-late 2000s, where I had pretty easy access to most installments in the franchise, and watched them in a jumbled order. And even then, I gravitated largely towards the Showa films, before I was even old enough to really pinpoint what it was I liked more about them (namely the more lively casts and special effects sequences). Not to say I didn't watch/disliked the Heisei movies, but I was just consistently more entertained by the 60s and 70s films. The only Heisei movie I tended to revisit super often was 1985. So while I'm sure a lot of us are more nostalgic for the Showa films (regardless if those were the only films that were around when they were kids or not), I think sometimes even children are capable to determining which are better movies (same can be said for something like Star Wars)…though granted, I also watched the Kiryu films and Final Wars a lot, so its not like I was biased towards older movies or anything (and unlike most Showa installments, I have grown to realize those aren't exactly great movies, albeit I don't actively dislike them).
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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by Omegamorph »

People who hate Showa:

-2cheesy lmao

-don't understand Godzilla's character progression as a Ronin-type character

-"Megalon bad therefore Showa bad"

-"not dark not gritty"

-???
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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by Jomei »

LegendZilla wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:14 pm I do love these movies mostly and nostalgia plays a big part. What I don't like however is people within the fandom getting all smug and elitist over them.
This oft-tossed about notion slightly baffles me. It's not elitist to be of the opinion that these films are the best. It would be elitist to say they are only for people who watched them "in real time" and that no one else can appreciate or talk about them sensibly.

Feeling the Showa series is the best and actively encouraging new fans to check them out and consider new angles of appreciating them is the opposite of elitist. It's openly inclusive.

edit: But maybe I'm weird. Looking at some of the other posts, I see weird factionalism over eras. But where do I fit in? My favorites are probably the Showa Era and the present one. So am I dinosaur elitist for loving the Showa-era films? Or a clueless newbie zoomer for loving Shin Godzilla and Pacific Rim? Generally speaking, maybe Godzilla fans can be better at just shrugging and accepting other opinions instead of rushing to label and categorize anyone with a slightly different preference in giant, ray-breathing monster movies.
Last edited by Jomei on Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
XxHeiseifanxX wrote:Can we lower age limit! There are TOO MANY HEISEI HATERS!!!
Thatguy4683 wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:04 pmWhat? Is this a joke? What gonna on here?
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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by eabaker »

Jomei wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:58 am Looking at some of the other posts, I see weird factionalism over eras.
Yeah, this is a phenomenon that, from where I'm sitting, has become increasingly prevalent over the last decade or so; and it is not one I consider very productive for the fandom.
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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by Mac Daddy MM »

Jomei wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:58 am maybe Godzilla fans can be better at just shrugging and accepting other opinions
Like when a little kid gets excited about Godzilla and a mid-20-year old man decides to shit all over a child online for it?
Last edited by Mac Daddy MM on Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Quote of the Year:
plasmabeam wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:03 am Hear me out on this. What if Godzilla is actually Suko’s father? In GvK when Godzilla defeated Kong and they were roaring at each other, what if Godzilla inseminated Kong at that moment and that’s why they were screaming?

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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by Jomei »

eabaker wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:07 pm
Jomei wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:58 am Looking at some of the other posts, I see weird factionalism over eras.
Yeah, this is a phenomenon that, from where I'm sitting, has become increasingly prevalent over the last decade or so; and it is not one I consider very productive for the fandom.
It's too bad. The narcissism of small differences, I suppose!
XxHeiseifanxX wrote:Can we lower age limit! There are TOO MANY HEISEI HATERS!!!
Thatguy4683 wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:04 pmWhat? Is this a joke? What gonna on here?
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Re: WHO HATES... Showa...!? Whaaaat? (Ignoring '54)

Post by Mac Daddy MM »

Jomei wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:02 pm
eabaker wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:07 pm
Jomei wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:58 am Looking at some of the other posts, I see weird factionalism over eras.
Yeah, this is a phenomenon that, from where I'm sitting, has become increasingly prevalent over the last decade or so; and it is not one I consider very productive for the fandom.
It's too bad. The narcissism of small differences, I suppose!
Oh yeah. I'm sure that's what it is.


Quote of the Year:
plasmabeam wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:03 am Hear me out on this. What if Godzilla is actually Suko’s father? In GvK when Godzilla defeated Kong and they were roaring at each other, what if Godzilla inseminated Kong at that moment and that’s why they were screaming?

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