Shin Ultraman General Discussion (spoilers!)

For the discussion of Shin Godzilla, Godzilla -1.0, the anime trilogy, Godzilla Singular Point and Toho produced and distributed films after 2015. Includes US movies financed by Toho like Detective Pikachu.
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Anguirus
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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by Anguirus »

I got tickets for tonight! When does Yutaka's character appear in the film, and for how long?

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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by HedorahIsBestGirl »

I'm going with my Dad tomorrow night, hoping it's good. I'm not a huge Ultraman fan but I've seen the original series and scattered episodes from the newer stuff.
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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

I'm gonna have to see it again. I loved the first half and not so much the back. I don't care for the reimagining of Zetton, and Zoffy's role was a bit of a letdown. I'd have liked more kaiju to be featured somehow. Overall though, Shin Ultraman is definitely a pretty fantastic picture!
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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by Angilasman »

... I am overwhelmed, and slightly giddy. I can't believe the thing I saw even exists.

I don't think I can give a more elaborate appraisal right now. I've gotta see it again tomorrow. Seeing it a second time I'll better be able to parse this dense thing (there's just so much stuff), and without having to read subs I'll notice stuff I didn't because being so dialog heavy made for a lot of reading, and fast!

I will say this one thing; I thought the more slow-paced, less action heavy second half of Shin Godzilla let some air out of the movie after such a sharp, zippy first half. Shin Ultraman does something similar, but this time I think that worked out great. The first half is full of cool stuff, but it's also just like getting a bunch of episodes of Ultraman in sequence. The calmer second half allows the film to come into focus, which felt necessary.

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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by MechaGoji Bro7503 »

I enjoyed the film a lot, there's a genuine great deal of care put into it from Higuchi & Anno alike. It's awesome! My qualms with the film mostly reside in pacing and how the story goes more for tell than show with it's characters. Like I think we needed to see more of humanity in this film and how they really touched Ultraman. That felt like it was missing, even when comparing it to the original show and not what followed it.
But yeah, very solid film. It's a visual and musical treat. It does so much right, it just kinda gets too ahead of itself. Like, I don't think the emotional stakes in this hit me as hard as it did in The Next. Can't wait for everyone to check out Shin though!

I'll post a full review soon. Seeing it with my brothers though, that was totally worth it.

Edit: Oh, the big Yakuza fan side of me was very happy with the casting for Mefilas & Zoffy. :P
Last edited by MechaGoji Bro7503 on Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by tbeasley »

I thought it was a lot of fun with a lot of love for the original series. A lot of the same visual style and creative energy as Shin Godzilla of course, only the story here is inherently more fun, outlandish and (for the most part) lighthearted. It also manages to be a really cool, smart reworking of the classic ‘Japan attacked by monsters and aliens’ scenario, with plenty of Anno bureaucracy and technobabble.
AllosaurHell wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:20 pmZoffy as the bringer of the End of Days is a thing I never would have expected to see in my 21 year long existence.
This took me off guard too, I was sure Mefilas and Zetton were going to be connected somehow. Zoffy's role felt like the biggest rift between the original series and this story. At least he seems to come around at the end though.

Other thoughts/nitpicks –
Spoiler:
Wish Neronga had a bit more screentime.
Gabora was very cool.
Zarab was a major highlight.
Giant Hiroko was a very pleasant surprise.
Wish Mefila had a bigger role as the main/final villain.
That said, Zetton as a massive superweapon was very cool.
The Ultra Q opening/other shoutouts were very cute.

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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by Creature22 »

My brother and I saw it last night and we both loved it, concluding it the most refreshing movie we had seen in awhile and probably the best of 2022 (as it was initially released last year). I like that this played out as more of an alien film than a kaiju film and the concept of a humanoid and intelligent monster being a “game changer” in regard to everything before it was really cool. I think Ultraman’s initial landing and his battle with Zarab were my favorite parts in the film.

My brother also loved Zarab, from his design to his dialogue, and found Mefilas entertaining in his human form. He was always more into aliens than kaiju growing up and once the film made the jump to more sophisticated creatures playing politics with Earth and each other I could notice he was really getting into it. I think we would have absolutely devoured this movie had it come out when we were children.
tbeasley wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:21 pm
AllosaurHell wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:20 pmZoffy as the bringer of the End of Days is a thing I never would have expected to see in my 21 year long existence.
This took me off guard too, I was sure Mefilas and Zetton were going to be connected somehow. Zoffy's role felt like the biggest rift between the original series and this story. At least he seems to come around at the end though.
Similar for me. I did not expect it, but I loved the change and surprise. My brother also loved it, later commenting that he liked the decision to make Zōffy chaotic good and “a man of the law”. I liked the ethical arguments between the different alien races and how their occasional child-like banter almost felt like kids arguing in a sandbox. It introduced a lot of cool ideas that the show didn’t really have the time to play with in the 60s, but also took them in new and mature directions. I’d love to see some sort of follow up with Zōffy coming to Earth in Ultraman’s place.
Last edited by Creature22 on Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by Rody »

Count me the camp who was surprised and delighted with the film. I thought this was a pretty great reimagining of the original series, with more emphasis on the sci-fi/political intrigue but with a satisfactory amount of battle sequences for spectacle.
I do feel the film was very quickly paced, to the point that some plot details and segments felt too rushed; however I don't know how the pacing could be resolved without either extending the runtime or impacting the plot structure; every segment is purposeful in building the conflict surrounding Earth and humanity up to the near-catastrophic climax. This film has a lot going on, but it's all deliberate and important to presenting a story that unravels on an ultimately epic scale.
I'm impressed with how the film recontextualizes certain concepts and updates the motivations of certain characters, especially when so many other remakes/reboots out there seem to struggle at doing this well. Zoffy as the final antagonist is the big change everyone's talking about, but it's presented in a way that makes complete sense - Zoffy is thinking on a much more cosmic scale, with "13 billion" other sentient races possibly at stake across the multiverse. Zoffy is acting on behalf of what he believes to be the greater good, and only when the SSSP and Ultraman defeat Zetton anyway does Zoffy realize he's underestimated and undervalued humanity for their own sake.
There's a lot of politics in the story, on the human and extraterrestrial levels, but it's all to serve the purpose of the film's moral themes. I like how the growing internal conflicts within the SSSP members reflects similar conflicts seen with Ide in the original series, now presented in an even bigger scope - what is humanity and all its achievements worth in comparison to the seemingly omnipotent powers of the aliens? Ultraman, Zarab and Mefilas are awe-inspiring, yet terrifying, and again Zoffy's comment about the BILLIONS of other planets/races out there further solidifies this sense of insignificance. In spite of all that, Ultraman is so fascinated and touched by humanity's qualities that he sacrifices himself for their sake and encourages them to keep fighting and prove their worth, which is exactly what they do. It's a story that's simultaneously more grounded and more grandiose than the original series, but at its heart the same core optimism remains, and that's great to see.
The effects are - ironically for special-effects-based franchise - probably the biggest weak point of the film. Cinematography and visual design are both on-point, just like in Shin Godzilla; and the character designs for the monsters and aliens are really good too. The CGI, however, is a mixed bag; Neronga and Gabora in particular don't quite have the right sense of mass and power they ought to. I like that motion capture was evidently used to help create the animation, but because the CGI models are inherently more flexible than a suit, the discrepancies in "realism" seem more evident. The aliens are less of an issue because of their deliberately, well, alien nature; but I still think a little more slow motion would have given their battles more impact.

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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by Angilasman »

tbeasley wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:21 pm
This took me off guard too, I was sure Mefilas and Zetton were going to be connected somehow. Zoffy's role felt like the biggest rift between the original series and this story. At least he seems to come around at the end though.
Apparently, in the era before home video and reruns there was a mistake in a guidebook that stated Zoffy was Zetton's master. This false fact was reprinting and repeated in various places and became a bit of fandom lore... only to now be canonized!

Reminds me of how Godzilla being possessed by the ghosts of war dead was an actual critical interpretation of '54 that Kaneko then built his movie around.

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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Rody wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:32 am There's a lot of politics in the story, on the human and extraterrestrial levels, but it's all to serve the purpose of the film's moral themes. I like how the growing internal conflicts within the SSSP members reflects similar conflicts seen with Ide in the original series, now presented in an even bigger scope - what is humanity and all its achievements worth in comparison to the seemingly omnipotent powers of the aliens? Ultraman, Zarab and Mefilas are awe-inspiring, yet terrifying, and again Zoffy's comment about the BILLIONS of other planets/races out there further solidifies this sense of insignificance. In spite of all that, Ultraman is so fascinated and touched by humanity's qualities that he sacrifices himself for their sake and encourages them to keep fighting and prove their worth, which is exactly what they do. It's a story that's simultaneously more grounded and more grandiose than the original series, but at its heart the same core optimism remains, and that's great to see.
I've seen mainstream reviews on various online publications, which criticize the film for lacking political merit or themes in contrast to Shin Godzilla. There's a skew of an audience who isn't familar with the genre as a whole, or properties like Ultraman, but liked Shin Godzilla so much they were expecting something very similar. However, as you touch on this point, I think the film is pretty consistent and political, just lighter and more focused on spectacle. If Shin Godzilla is about the Fukushima disaster, Shin Ultraman is about weapon poliferation and arms risk. It's also pretty critical of Japan's reliance on outside aid and help in regards to weapons, but not fully dimissive of international cooperation. I was surprised how many people seemingly missed this in reviews.

Likewise, I agree with you about all the philosophical points of insiginificance, and a great deal of connecting the spectacle and aliens to raw human emotions and desires. The first time I saw Shin Ultraman, I thought it felt like a few Ultraman episodes smashed together, and it still feels that way, but upon re-watches there's a very clear throughline and ongoing plot that becomes more apparent upon repeat reviewings. The threat that humanity faces (the appearance of monsters, Neronga, and Gabora) are all part of a larger escalation of a universal power struggle between various factions. In the same way that Zarab is trying to sell weapons, other factions like Meflia and Zoffy have different interpretations on what peace is or what is best for the galaxy. The reveal that Gabora and Neronga are creatures engineered by Meflia doesn't come until 3/4ths through the film, so it may seem disconnected, but upon repeat viewings it feels much more connected.

I don't mind Zetton or Zoffy's update. In the case of Zetton, he originally appears rather randomly at the end of the final Ultraman episode and is just unstoppable. The fight is a curbstomp, and it's the SSSP that stops him. It works well for the SSSP, but it's a little anti-climactic for the series ending, although well-done, so I like this change. It feels like we get that curbstomp, and then humanity helping, and Ultraman sacrificing to save humanity and the Earth. Honestly, it's all an update that works. We get a nice array of monsters that captures a nice skewer of the Ultra franchise well (monsters and aliens), and they're re-intenveted in alrtered ways that make them just different enough to keep things interesting. I for one would've been horribly bored if the finale played out exactly like the finale of the original series. This isn't a replacement for the original series by any means, and both can be enjoyed without seeing the other, but you also don't feel like you know everything going in even if you've seen the original. It strikes a perfect balance of re-imagining while being faithful to the source.

Glad people on here are finally able to see this and discuss it. I've had to patiently wait myself and I'm happy to get into the nitty-gritty of it all. Love that people are enjoying it too.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Thu Jan 12, 2023 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by Rody »

I'm very much in agreement on you on these points. I'm not surprised people were (mis)interpreting the political aspects of the film, just like they did for Shin Godzilla. The film throws some off-hand criticisms about Japan's relationship with the USA, but is quick to leverage criticisms about Japan's government on its own, too - and that's not even mentioning how Japan is shown buying a MOP bombardment from the US (callbacks to ShinG?) without ANY criticism or judgement whatsoever. The movie isn't about a specific recent event, nor is it really addressing any particular nations/governments (besides Japan itself just because that's where the movie happens); it's a broader piece addressing more fundamental themes that remain relevant even if they're not at the political forefront in this point in time.

Count me also in the camp who found the original Zetton's defeat a little anticlimactic; while I value the show's push in the final episodes to indicate humanity's growing capacity to defend itself, the actual dipatch of Zetton always felt abrupt in presentation. While I wouldn't want Shin Zetton to be the new standard for the character, I was very pleased to see it presented as a truly ominous, near-unstoppable enemy again for the first time in a while for the franchise.

I'm certainly happy to have seen this film, and on the big screen, too - it's almost surreal to think I got to see and ULTRAMAN movie in an American theater.

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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by StardustGenius »

I liked it quite a lot. It was very much a big movie take on Ultraman, but through the lense of Hideaki Anno. I suppose one criticism I have is the way Anno depicted the Ultra beings, as indifferent aliens who do not care. I rather like Eiji Tsuburaya's hard coded "Ultras Believe In Humanity" that has been part of the franchise for so long.

I don't think it takes away any merit from the movie at all. I don't think it was as good as Shin Godzilla, but it didn't need to be. It was good on its own. The characters were pretty fun, and it embraced everything about the first Ultraman. All of it. I love that.

Movie critics asking for messages in their movies is the risk of Brainy Movie Pundits nowadays. Though, if they were REALLY smart, they would notice there's a message of cultural imperialism, proliferation of wars, and intervention. Or the meanings behind being a hero.

But yeah, the Ultra aliens being cold towards humanity ain't big on me. It reminds me of that turn in the 80s and 90s trying to make Superman like some kind of AntiHuman.

And before anyone comes at me for it, this is what you look like.

[Pic]https://i.imgur.com/bSZp5er.png[/Pic]

EDIT: Dangit it can't show up.

Also, I like how the movie answered who's tougher between Gomess and Godzilla.
Spoiler:
(Godzilla by a mile)
Spoiler:
Shin Godzilla: A walking mountain of doom and destruction that walks through armored columns and artillery.
Spoiler:
Shin Gomess: Gets shot by tanks, falls over and cries.
Last edited by StardustGenius on Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by Cryptid_Liker »

Creature22 wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:10 am [...] I’d love to see some sort of follow up with Zōffy coming to Earth in Ultraman’s place.
That's one of my theories on how Shin Return of Ultraman (which is confirmed to be what's coming after this) will play out.

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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by MechaGoji Bro7503 »

If it means my guy Jack finally gets the spotlight I'm all in :angel: I want more than the Jack transformation light easter egg in Shin, hehe.

(Although I wouldn't be surprised if they just have Shin Ultraman return in a new form or something and not necessarily "Jack")
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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

I should mention that Shin Ultraman has one of the best moments of action in any recent kaiju film:
Spoiler:
when Ultraman started doing his lil beepy-spin, and I'm sitting here thinking "he's gonna go into his red space ball, ok" AND THEN HE KICKS GABORA LIKE THREE MILES?!?!? Perfection. Absolute perfection. On par with seeing Godzilla killing the MUTO in 2014 or even Shin Godzilla breathing fire the first time.
Like I said before, I need to see it again, and I definitely *liked* the movie. The political elements were very interesting.
Also, curious about
Spoiler:
whether that was actually supposed to be Akasaka from Shin Godzilla? Because if so I'm not super happy about his part from what I recall. Still, I was the only person in the theater who audibly gasped when Yutaka Takenouchi popped up!
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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by MechaGoji Bro7503 »

Major sssspielberg! wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 8:30 pm Like I said before, I need to see it again, and I definitely *liked* the movie. The political elements were very interesting.
Also, curious about
Spoiler:
whether that was actually supposed to be Akasaka from Shin Godzilla? Because if so I'm not super happy about his part from what I recall. Still, I was the only person in the theater who audibly gasped when Yutaka Takenouchi popped up!
I'm sure it was left vague on purpose, especially since he had the same pin on his suit as his character from Shin Godzilla. But the part where he tries to intimidate Kaminaga did feel a tad bit weird, what with all the SWAT dudes outside. I only say that because his character in Godzilla seemed more lenient, at least from what I remembered.
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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by Cryptid_Liker »

Major sssspielberg! wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 8:30 pm Also, curious about whether that was actually supposed to be Akasaka from Shin Godzilla? Because if so I'm not super happy about his part from what I recall. Still, I was the only person in the theater who audibly gasped when Yutaka Takenouchi popped up!
His casting was definitely intentional, as stated by Anno. However, what else Anno said is that copyright shenanigans (not his wording, obviously) made it impossible for a true continuity to be established between the two movies. So, I guess just consider him Not-kasaka?

And by the way, I appreciate the concern but there's no need to use the spoiler tag in a thread specifically used for spoiler discussion after the spoiler ban has already been lifted for a whole day.

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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by CyberZilla »

Loved this movie. I’m still super new to Ultraman, having only recently watched the original 1966 series, but this movie hit on nearly all cylinders for me.

I was definitely confused on
Spoiler:
why the Ultras gave up on humanity, save for “our” Ultraman, but I enjoyed the way Ultraman kept fighting and believing in humanity even after their mistakes. Zoffy as an antagonist was a surprise, but an interesting foil for the final portion of the story.
I was surprised at how endearing the human cast was, and how charming many of the aliens ended up being. It very much fit their characters, too. Most of the changes made felt in-line or appropriate for both the character and the story they were going for. My friend who has very little knowledge on Ultraman managed to keep up with the story, albeit with some confusion here and there, so they did a decent job at making it accessible for new fans.

Can’t wait to rewatch it. Many of the themes here really resonated with me at this point in my life, and I left the theater understanding a bit more why Ultraman can be such a powerful character emotionally.
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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by Creature22 »

Yeah, I took Akasaka to be the same character but liked that it was left intentionally vague. It was refreshing to see a movie that let the imagination of the viewer do some of the heavy lifting as opposed to trying to provide a grounded explanation for everything. A lot of things are left vague and unexplained but they don’t impact the plot or story. I think this helped feed into my fascination and curiosity in the same way the original series did when I was seeing it for the first time as a kid. And that’s a cool feeling, that I’m older but can still get that out of a movie and become excited about what we might get in the future and if we’re only scratching the surface. In that regard I think Anno and Higuchi really nailed it here.
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Re: Shin-Ultraman SPOILER THREAD/REVIEW

Post by miguelnuva »

Saw it today with my brother. Enjoyed it much more than Shin Godzilla.

While I liked it I think Anno's films even though he didn't direct this one have pacing issues. Shin Godzilla was very slow and this film felt like it went fast. The two films also had a couple moments that went beat for beat and you could tell they were spiritual brothers.

I did like the theme of Ultraman better as well. Shin Godzilla is about humanity coming together to fight Disspear while Shin Ultraman feels like humanity will come together through Hope.
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