Your views on the concept of "voting with your dollars" or supporting those you don't align with

[Chrispy_G]

What is your take on it?

I think there is a lot to be said for the notion of "Separate the Art from the Artist"...that a great painting or work of art does not cease to be great simply because a reprehensible person made it. Although I have zero interest in a piece of art or poetry created by Adolf Hitler. I don't care if it was considered the best thing ever...it is from Hitler.

With film/TV....it becomes a bit more murky. Let's say a child abuser directed a great film. Sure, they are a piece of scum...but what about all of the other potentially good, honest, hard working people who worked hard to make a great movie? That makes things a bit less black and white.

Then there are corporate politics. If a director and crew make a great film, but then the studio releasing the film takes a very morally questionable stance on something...how do you approach that? How do you support that work if the studio is so strongly aligned in another direction?

Does an awful employee ruin everything for a company? Does a terrible company ruin everything for all of their employees even if the employees didn't do anything wrong?

I don't think I have a clear answer....but it certainly crosses my mind more and more. Jeepers Creepers was a pretty solid creature feature with a really good sequel...yet the background of the Director really turned me off of wanting to support or enjoy those films.

The world is full of unique people with unique opinions. I'm all for that, I'm all for disagreeing and discussion differences and setting them aside for old fashioned entertainment.

Yet, when celebrities or corporations feel the need to be overtly political...it gets annoying. When they come out and "take a stance against XYZ" and in the process show how little they actually know about what they are talking about....it becomes laughable and hard to look beyond that to just enjoy their product.

People like Joss Whedon and James Gunn have been shown to be pretty slimy. Whedon much more so as an overall garbage human, Gunn simply seem to be obsesses with pedophilia-themed humor back in the day. Then when the Walt Disney company comes out and makes strong political stances in one direction. They film Mulan in China and thank the province where Muslim Uyghers are being kept in concentration camps. They come out against legislation designed to protect K-3rd grade children and empower parents.

When all of that stuff starts to get factored in....maybe I care a lot less about spending money on a new Doctor Strange movie, regardless of how many famous cameos it will have in it.

Hollywood seems to be full of more and more creeps, weirdos, and generally disreputable people as time goes on. I mean, if you know about X number of "not good" people in an industry, think about how many you DON'T know about.

So what is the solution? Don't enjoy ANY media or ANY entertainment? I doubt any film or show from any industry would pass any kind of 'purity test' you could apply to it. That just isn't practical.

However...I think a person can simply be a little more discerning. Do not just blindly and uniformly support "brands" and "corporations"....loyalty and dedication to corporate brands is simply ridiculous. "It doesn't matter if it isn't so great, it has the right label on it so I'm more inclined to enjoy it"

Lord knows that if Hollywood has you feeling like it is a bunch of scumbags making movies that aren't that good and they actively hate half of the audience....there is certainly no shortage of films and anime content from a country like Japan, that seems FAR LESS occupied with that kind of thing, and typically just wants to put entertainment first and keep politics out of their content.

[UltramanGoji]

This topic has the potential to get volatile so please try and keep discussion civil or it'll be locked. Thanks.

[Voyager]

If it’s a good piece of art (art, movie, game, literature) I’ll enjoy it, but be wary of those behind it.

[Thatguy4683]

I’ll separate the art from the artist, in my opinion the quality of the film doesn’t degrade due to the creator being a terrible person. I still love FNAF even though Scott Cawthon has shown support to a anti LGBT republican.

[mikelcho]

If it’s a good piece of art (art, movie, game, literature) I’ll enjoy it, but be weary of those behind it.

I think you meant to say "...be wary of those behind it." You've put in "weary".

[Voyager]

If it’s a good piece of art (art, movie, game, literature) I’ll enjoy it, but be weary of those behind it.

I think you meant to say "...be wary of those behind it." You've put in "weary".

Yeah thanks, I fixed it.

[shadowgigan]

I usually don't care. I don't know. It depends on how henious the offense is and how good the work is.

[mikelcho]

I know what you mean; Bill Cosby's comedy albums are still funny after all the years, and I like to remember him for what he was, not for what he became.

The bad part about all this is I've got all of his comedy albums from 1963 to 1973 (his peak period, imho) on CD except for four: More of the Best of Bill Cosby (1970), For Adults Only (1972), Bill (1973) and Cosby Classics (1986) (the first half of a double album called Cosby and the Kids/Cosby Classics (I've already got the second half, Cosby and the Kids)). All four of these albums (the first, third and fourth ones being greatest-hits albums and the second one a studio album) most likely won't be released on CD until after he's dead, and maybe not even that. So, if Warner Bros. (who own both the first and fourth albums) and Geffen (who, I guess, would possibly release the second and third albums, since they already released three others from the same company, MCA (i.e., When I Was A Kid (1971), Inside the Mind of Bill Cosby (1972), and Fat Albert (1973)) don't do this, I'm sunk, because my collection won't be complete. I don't know why they didn't even think of releasing all four of them when they had a chance, along with all the others, in the first place.

[mikelcho]

If it’s a good piece of art (art, movie, game, literature) I’ll enjoy it, but be weary of those behind it.

I think you meant to say "...be wary of those behind it." You've put in "weary".

Yeah thanks, I fixed it.

Thanks!

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

I typically separate art from the artist. John Wayne by all accounts was a complete asshole but that by no means detracts from everything he did as an actor. Weinstein was one of the most vile pieces of shit in all Hollywood but that doesn't destroy all the good films he produced.

[JAGzilla]

John Wayne by all accounts was a complete asshole but that by no means detracts from everything he did as an actor.

*looks up* Well. I was happier ten minutes ago.

I don't know, though. I guess I generally do support separation of the art and artist, especially in film and TV where, as Chrispy said, a lot of innocent people are involved in the production. No sense in tarnishing them by association with some idiot.

[LegendZilla]

Soon enough, the ruling elite could try pushing for only allowing one to vote if they pay cash.

[Voyager]

Soon enough, the ruling elite could try pushing for only allowing one to vote if they pay cash.

This has nothing to do with the thread maybe the title mislead you…?

[LSD Jellyfish]

Largely depends on what has been done/what they did/when they do it.

It's too complex to really give a definitive answer. My go to, is that unfortunately I assume that every piece of media past, present, and future, has been created by someone with somewhat questionable, outdated, or downright horrid views. To give a pretty direct example of what I mean, I'm aware that Anno Hideaki has had some notoriously bad takes and incredibly weird political and personal beliefs. However, that doesn't make me value all the work he has, and Gainax has produced. Neon Genesis Evangelion and Shin Godzilla, to me and many other people on this site, are high class kino. I'll keep being interested in what Anno makes and does, but I'm also very wary of how his films may contain weird/bad takes. Anyone with a modicum of critical thinking will eventually realize though that of course the creators beliefs will eventually intersect with what is produced. Returning to Anno, it's why suddenly knowing his right-Japanese nationalistic leanings, suddenly makes me evaluate EoE in a different light, particularly the portrayal of modern Japan/and/or the UN as evil/inept (though that's up for debate). I think consuming such media is fine, as long as you're aware of that. Entirely separating a creator from their work is impossible.

Ironically, the reverse is true; melding a work of art entirely to it's creator is also impossible. You as the audience have as much power as the creator. You have your own power to bring your own baggage/thoughts/beliefs when you consume a work of art. Your experience with any piece of medium will be uniquely your own. It's also why you should always be critical of what media you consume, instead of putting blinders on just because you like it. The issue becomes when people value the art so much that they willingly ignore/defend that person's beliefs. There are all caveats to what I'm saying here but yeah I think you get my point.

But that's with Anno, who (as far as we know) hasn't done anything to bring physical harm to someone. When it comes to someone in the present, that's actively predatory/and or destructive to society, it feels incredibly weird to dissociate or approve of anything in their works while this is going on. This isn't up for debate, but it's specifically why I can't listen to/enjoy Marilyn Manson's music anymore. It doesn't sit well with me, and enjoyment of said media is suddenly gone because I can't break that association.

[Major sssspielberg!]

I don't have any urge to watch The Cosby Show or really most anything Joss Whedon has touched. I can watch Chinatown even though I know Polanski is a sick little fucker. I can watch Brando movies even though I know what he did with that stick of butter. I guess it depends on the quality of the work, how much of the artist is in the work, and just how those parts manifest into the work.
The Cosby Show bothers me because of how wholesome it is. Whedon stuff makes me think about what a fake dude he was, collecting feminist awards while being an incredibly abusive boss and misogynist. But Chinatown and The Godfather or Apocalypse Now have so much artistic merit that I guess I'm ok with knowing about the horrible shit the people who worked on them did. I don't get the same value from TCS or any Whedon stuff.
As JAG said above, in school I'm really learning how a filmed work is really the collaborative effort of a group of people, and the director or writer is only one part of that.
"Cancel culture" can be really annoying but I think it's a good thing that we're beginning to hold creators to, y'know, normal human standards that we'd want our bosses or coworkers to adhere to. I personally hope that it's growing pains on the way to a better society.
As far as John Wayne goes, Flava Flav said it best, if you know you know.

[shadowgigan]

Soon enough, the ruling elite could try pushing for only allowing one to vote if they pay cash.

This has nothing to do with the thread maybe the title mislead you…?

This is actually a really funny misunderstanding.

[Spuro]

Hmm. There’s definitely some companies that I boycott, yes. Nestle is my major one. I draw a pretty hard line at child slavery. Rape and sexual abuse is another thing I draw the line at, so Ubisoft can go fuck itself too.

The big problem is that so many mega corporations cover such a huge variety of products and services these days that it becomes almost unfeasible to boycott a substantial number of them. You’re really forced to pick and choose your battles. The entertainment industry is easier to boycott than others because they at least don’t have any essential services to offer. Also piracy is a thing that exists. Yay for piracy.

It’s also disheartening that “voting with your wallet” only works if the majority are on the same page. I see hundreds of posts, videos and comments talking about how cewl Ass Creed Valhalla is and die a little bit inside.

[LSD Jellyfish]

The big problem is that so many mega corporations cover such a huge variety of products and services these days that it becomes almost unfeasible to boycott a substantial number of them. You’re really forced to pick and choose your battles. The entertainment industry is easier to boycott than others because they at least don’t have any essential services to offer. Also piracy is a thing that exists. Yay for piracy.

Remember, no ethnical consumption under capitalism!

(although there's clearly more ethical consumption based on something than others)

I find the whole, "vote with your wallets" idea always a partial way for those in charge to ignore and excuse the actual issues at hand. Unless public outrage is so high, grassroots activism like this is pretty hard anyways to really affect anything.

[Voyager]

Remember, no ethnical consumption under capitalism!

I’d take capitalism over eating ethnic minorities

[LSD Jellyfish]

Remember, no ethnical consumption under capitalism!

I’d take capitalism over eating ethnic minorities

This wasn't a what-about-X statement.

I'm well aware of the problems with other systems, but I was just making a point that due to the way of how money flows, eventually, regardless of your political beliefs, it will reach someone you don't like/agree with. The controversy and issue to me is how direct and obfuscated that pipe-line is.