Talkback: Frankenstein vs. Baragon (1965)

[Spuro]

Eh, Kong is close enough. I don’t think a giant homid would add anything new.

[Gigantis]

Honestly i agree with Spuro in that Kong fits the bill of what the "giant humanoid" Frankenstein fighting Godzilla would look like.

If the Godzilla vs. Frankenstein idea ever SHOULD come back, i'd rather them take more from Willis O'Brien's original idea for King Kong vs. Prometheus and have instead of a giant humanoid it would be more of a massive, grotesque looking mish mash of animal parts that can still take a bipedal stance when needed. Maybe even have the idea of giving it a rhino's head like some early drafts wanted? IDK, just think it would be more fitting if they decide to make the monster the antagonist and not Godzilla. The

[LSD Jellyfish]

I've always felt that Kong is too bestial for me to fit that role. If we were to make a scale, from beast to man, we'd get this:

Beast----Kong>Gaira>/Sanda>Frankenstien----Man

For me, I want to see a monster sort of in the Gaira/Sanda side of things fight Godzilla and/or have a more prominent role in monster films.

[edgaguirus]

We could go straight giant human as well. The Ultra Q Episode Metamorphosis featured a huge feral man.

[Voyager]

We could go straight giant human as well. The Ultra Q Episode Metamorphosis featured a huge feral man.

(3)50 foot woman, anyone?

[edgaguirus]

We could go straight giant human as well. The Ultra Q Episode Metamorphosis featured a huge feral man.

(3)50 foot woman, anyone?

Only if the raises the roof of the local bar and grill.

You have a good point, though. If we're going to go giant human or humanoid, we could go female as well. You'd just have to cover certain parts.

[Godzillakuj94]

Does anyone know where I can track down this film? Would love to see it as I'm showing my girl the Showa films in sequence and I've actually never seen it before.

[JAGzilla]

Does anyone know where I can track down this film? Would love to see it as I'm showing my girl the Showa films in sequence and I've actually never seen it before.

Amazon has the Media Blasters DVD for about $30. It's a fairly good movie, I definitely recommend it.

[MaxRebo320]

"On a semi-OOP, but cheap-enough DVD from Media Blasters" purgatory, like so many of Toho's other classic SFX films sadly are.

[Spuro]

The Media Blasters DVD was pretty cool. Three different versions of the same movie? Kicking Criterion's ass, there.

[MaxRebo320]

The Media Blasters DVD was pretty cool. Three different versions of the same movie? Kicking Criterion's ass, there.

A very hastily made reconstruction of the AIP cut, sure.

But no, you are correct that the mere inclusion of the dub (Regardless of the quality of the recon itself) is still a step-above anything Criterion did. If the film does eventually see a re-release in the US, there's a good chance it won't be included at all.

Though Toho did actually include it (Well, another lousy recon) as a bonus feature in a 2007 Tokusatsu boxset (Along with the UPA War of the Gargantuas), which could mean they hold it in a bit more light (Likely thanks to Nick Adams' dialogue), but that was 15 years ago now. Who knows what their stance on it is nowadays.

[LegendZilla]

I hope that Criterion gets their act together and releases more of Toho's non-Godzilla kaiju films. This one included.

[Legion1979]

Just watched this earlier this week.

This is THE movie that cinches the idea that the movies outside the Godzilla series are far outside the continuity of those films, and the filmmakers did not intend them to be. Baragon's existance is met with skepticism by everyone Yoshio Tsuchiya's character talks to. There's a full sequence where the main characters visit several scientists (they even stop at a museum) to discuss whether a monster like Baragon could even be possible. That sequence would not happen in a universe where Godzilla, Angilas, Mothra and Rodan exist, not without retconning an entire sequence in this movie.

[Terasawa]

Notably, that angle was added after Godzilla was removed from the story (natch). It's not present in Jerry Sohl's "Godzilla vs. Frankenstein" treatment and I'd bet it's not in Mabuchi's first draft screenplay developed from Sohl's story. In fact, in Sohl's story, there's never any question about whether Frankenstein or another monster is guilty of all the attacks because we see Frankenstein raiding farms, zoos, etc. for food; Godzilla is only brought in later, and there's no doubt he was asleep in the Pacific while Frankenstein roamed the Japanese countryside.

I like the Godzilla vs. Frankenstein concept, but Sohl's treatment is a good Frankenstein story with a clumsy Godzilla story grafted on. As much as I'd like to have seen Godzilla in the film, I really like the movie we did get, and I think the changes that came when Godzilla was written out absolutely benefited the film. Frankenstein being blamed for Baragon's misdeeds adds a lot of depth to Frankenstein's redemption in the last act: he saves friendly Nick Adams and Kumi Mizuno, doubter Tadao Takashima, and even the JSDF realizes its mistake. Frankenstein saves Sueko in Sohl's treatment, but none of the rest was possible with the story he devised.

[Legion1979]

I'll preface this by stating I love this movie and I love Baragon.

The conflict Baragon creates by making Frankenstein look guilty is fine. The movie needs the characters to have some doubt about his innocence. But I feel like Baragon is not integrated well. Baragon doesn't feel organic to the film regardless of how important the conflict he presents is to the story. His goofball puppy dog design (which I love, mind you) is at odds with the serious tone of the movie. I'm engrossed from the very beginning with the Hiroshima stuff and the tragedy of the mutant human and the caregivers who desperately want to help him. But the final act is just an aimless twenty minute battle with an ending that's as anti-climatic as they get.

Funny enough, War of the Gargantuas is the reverse of this. The human drama is pretty terrible (I wish the three leads had chemistry and that Kenji Sahara had ANYTHING to do) and the military stuff pulls way too much focus from the main story, as good as some of that stuff is from an effects standpoint. But unlike Conquers the World, where nothing connected Frankenstein to Baragon aside from one creature framing the other, Sanda and Gailah are related, so the drama of their battle and their eventual demise works so much better.

[KingSkeetorah]

Watched this for the first time ever last night. I loved everything about this movie. Pure vintage Toho, ‘imperfect perfection’ in every respect. Though I do wish Baragon had presented more of a challenge in the final battle.

Also I was taken aback at just how much of this film’s music got used in later Godzilla films. I’ve always been aware of the “stock music” complaint but could never source it so it never bothered me. Godzilla vs. Gigan especially used a lot of music from this movie. Kind of a sad revelation because that’s one of my favorite soundtracks ever. But it all works, either way.

Already excited to watch this one again.

[edgaguirus]

It is a good one. I haven't seen this film lately, so I may remedy that soon.

[Gojira-Fan]

I do like the darker/horror vibe this has going for it and the special effects are pretty good too. The final fight might drag a little too much tho.

[Amp87]

I would love to know what happened to the actor who was in this only role as Toho's Frankenstein ?

[Gailah 1966]

Great one and a very good cast. Nick Adams, Kumi Mizuno, Tadao Takashima and Yoshio Tsuchiya. Very good soundtrack, too. Everytime I watch this movie, I have to decide what version I choose. US-Version ending is good and maybe the better one for western audiences. Japanese ending is not satisfying in my opinion, but also dramatic and sad.

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I would love to know what happened to the actor who was in this only role as Toho's Frankenstein ?

As far as I know he had 2 movie roles and is still alive.