Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

For discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released from 1980 up to 1998 (includes Gamera 3)
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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by AllosaurHell »

miguelnuva wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 4:29 am
LegendZilla wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:13 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:26 am

Nope.
Why not?
Because I like my Godzilla and Christianity seperate and gave no desire seeing Jesus use Godzilla or Ghidorah to destroy the Earth.

I don't mind creating a prophet in fiction if you what but I feel it's too much flack trying to use religious characters in film and then change how they were in religious texts or make analogies to them.
Fellow Roman Catholic here, I understand the blasphemy to the religion at play, but one part of me just finds extreme amusement in Godzilla and Jesus (well, a golden naked humanoid claiming to be Jesus as he's described in the treatment) teaming up against humanity.
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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by SpiderZilla »

AllosaurHell wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:10 am Fellow Roman Catholic here, I understand the blasphemy to the religion at play, but one part of me just finds extreme amusement in Godzilla and Jesus (well, a golden naked humanoid claiming to be Jesus as he's described in the treatment) teaming up against humanity.
I’m confident that Christian leaders of all denominations would rise up in protest and drag the film, and Godzilla by extension, through the muck.

Don’t poke the bear.

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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by AllosaurHell »

SpiderZilla wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:25 am
AllosaurHell wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:10 am Fellow Roman Catholic here, I understand the blasphemy to the religion at play, but one part of me just finds extreme amusement in Godzilla and Jesus (well, a golden naked humanoid claiming to be Jesus as he's described in the treatment) teaming up against humanity.
I’m confident that Christian leaders of all denominations would rise up in protest and drag the film, and Godzilla by extension, through the muck.

Don’t poke the bear.
You have a valid point, in fact there was a Greek Orthodox Priest who did this with the 2005 Furby (video is linked below) and claimed that Satan was using them as vessels so yeah, they definitely would have done it to Godzilla.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1dyGK6 ... =GiaNtakos
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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by edgaguirus »

It's an ambitious take on Godzilla. Removing the Jesus name and focusing on the aliens as ancient gods, like in Stargate, would have worked better. That final scene would make better sense doing it that way.
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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by StardustGenius »

I think the alien being named Jesus was a means of shock value. Calling the being The Savior would have been pretty effective, though I am unsure that was what they were going for.

This movie would have made for quite a bleak trilogy had it been made. Prophecies Of Nostradamus in 1974, Blue Christmas in 1978, God's Godzilla in 1979.

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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by AllosaurHell »

edgaguirus wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:18 pm It's an ambitious take on Godzilla. Removing the Jesus name and focusing on the aliens as ancient gods, like in Stargate, would have worked better. That final scene would make better sense doing it that way.
Good point.

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StardustGenius wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:14 pm I think the alien being named Jesus was a means of shock value. Calling the being The Savior would have been pretty effective, though I am unsure that was what they were going for.

This movie would have made for quite a bleak trilogy had it been made. Prophecies Of Nostradamus in 1974, Blue Christmas in 1978, God's Godzilla in 1979.
SOLID IDEA THERE! An anthology of Japanese experimental films about the apocalypse and God's Godzilla being the perfect one to cap it off.
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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by edgaguirus »

It would have been a good dvd box set.
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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

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Getting past the actual script, I find many comments by the person that proposed this idea to be very enlightening and fascinating, even moreso than the script itself in some regards.
Finally, this New Godzilla will be developed for the future (the 21st century), and should carry forward with it a sense of post-modernism. The circumstances involved should see us strive to imitate characters such as Tarzan, King Kong, Frankenstein, Fantômas, etc., whose images have continued to thrive and to be shown from generation to generation.
The person who wrote this proposal discusses updating Godzilla. Keep in mind, while this would've been a few years after TOMG, it wouldn't have been impossible for Toho to just keep the Showa series going at that time. Instead, they shelved Godzilla for a long time, focused on disaster flicks, and returned full force in 1984, with an updated Godzilla.

(A) We must thoroughly recognize the discrepancy within the grotesque, i.e. between supernaturalism and surrealism.

If we do not uphold this recognition in regards to the script, screen layout, and the creation of characters, we will not be able to create this New Godzilla film.
Now we get to the "grotesque". This is really interesting. I've heard this word being thrown around a few times in reference to Godzilla, I believe some Japanese artist- might've been Yuko Shimizu, the illustrator for the Criterion set, refer to Godzilla as someone that many people were embarrassed by for his grotesqueness. I don't know but I remember someone else explaining and using this phrasing before. Interpretation on my end, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some people who wanted to move Godzilla beyond a grotesque image of the Atomic bombings, to more accurately reflect Japan's growing role as a growing world power, and not a victim covered in keloid scars. While of course Godzilla's atomic bomb origin lost a lot of meaning throughout the Showa era, there were still connects here and there.

1984 Godzilla still retains a connection to nuclear power, and the dangers of atomic bombs, but it's disconnected from the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It's connected instead to the possibility of a nuclear war between the US and Russia, with a mix of nuclear disaster and fallout, not unlike this script.

It's hard to know what exactly is meant between supernaturalism vs. surrealism, without looking at the rest of their script. I'm assuming that they mean that Godzilla, in their view, should not be defied as some sort grotesque being beyond our understanding, and thus diefied through nature, but rather

Finally, there's this:
(B) Having a sense of the cosmic.

The staff shall be trained to be able to immediately allow 4-dimensional images to come to their minds.

Horizontal and diagonal thought as well as reversals in thought are already behind the times.

We must take our thoughts to warp speed.

A big jump

We shall make a huge leap!!
Just seems like a bit of optimism of pushing Godzilla into the next stage. It's something that Blue Christmas would try to do.


What I find most interesting about this though is that we've gotten a hard return to the grotesque, with Shin Godzilla. However, Shin Godzilla is a disgusting physically malformed creature, that also incorporates surrealism. Likewise, we've gotten the reverse, Godzillas that are not grotesque, and in part embody some sense of cosmology, spirituality and deity: Godzilla Earth, and Godzilla Ultima. Each has varying levels. Godzilla the grotesque is a discussion for another time, but this weird little moment in the proposal made me realize a big divide between Godzilla incarnations, designs, and philosophies amongst the people at Toho (and outside!) and I think it really explains a lot about the franchise in general, and where we are at.

Funnily enough, the MV Godzilla, while not physically grotesque, is the most rooted in supernaturalism.

Will the Yamazaki Godzilla be grotesque? Will it be surreal? Keep in mind, I think all of this wording is heavily up to interpretation, but I think it's such an interesting thing that these philosophical ideas were being incorporated into Godzilla.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by AllosaurHell »

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:28 am Getting past the actual script, I find many comments by the person that proposed this idea to be very enlightening and fascinating, even moreso than the script itself in some regards.
Finally, this New Godzilla will be developed for the future (the 21st century), and should carry forward with it a sense of post-modernism. The circumstances involved should see us strive to imitate characters such as Tarzan, King Kong, Frankenstein, Fantômas, etc., whose images have continued to thrive and to be shown from generation to generation.
The person who wrote this proposal discusses updating Godzilla. Keep in mind, while this would've been a few years after TOMG, it wouldn't have been impossible for Toho to just keep the Showa series going at that time. Instead, they shelved Godzilla for a long time, focused on disaster flicks, and returned full force in 1984, with an updated Godzilla.

(A) We must thoroughly recognize the discrepancy within the grotesque, i.e. between supernaturalism and surrealism.

If we do not uphold this recognition in regards to the script, screen layout, and the creation of characters, we will not be able to create this New Godzilla film.
Now we get to the "grotesque". This is really interesting. I've heard this word being thrown around a few times in reference to Godzilla, I believe some Japanese artist- might've been Yuko Shimizu, the illustrator for the Criterion set, refer to Godzilla as someone that many people were embarrassed by for his grotesqueness. I don't know but I remember someone else explaining and using this phrasing before. Interpretation on my end, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some people who wanted to move Godzilla beyond a grotesque image of the Atomic bombings, to more accurately reflect Japan's growing role as a growing world power, and not a victim covered in keloid scars. While of course Godzilla's atomic bomb origin lost a lot of meaning throughout the Showa era, there were still connects here and there.

1984 Godzilla still retains a connection to nuclear power, and the dangers of atomic bombs, but it's disconnected from the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It's connected instead to the possibility of a nuclear war between the US and Russia, with a mix of nuclear disaster and fallout, not unlike this script.

It's hard to know what exactly is meant between supernaturalism vs. surrealism, without looking at the rest of their script. I'm assuming that they mean that Godzilla, in their view, should not be defied as some sort grotesque being beyond our understanding, and thus diefied through nature, but rather

Finally, there's this:
(B) Having a sense of the cosmic.

The staff shall be trained to be able to immediately allow 4-dimensional images to come to their minds.

Horizontal and diagonal thought as well as reversals in thought are already behind the times.

We must take our thoughts to warp speed.

A big jump

We shall make a huge leap!!
Just seems like a bit of optimism of pushing Godzilla into the next stage. It's something that Blue Christmas would try to do.


What I find most interesting about this though is that we've gotten a hard return to the grotesque, with Shin Godzilla. However, Shin Godzilla is a disgusting physically malformed creature, that also incorporates surrealism. Likewise, we've gotten the reverse, Godzillas that are not grotesque, and in part embody some sense of cosmology, spirituality and deity: Godzilla Earth, and Godzilla Ultima. Each has varying levels. Godzilla the grotesque is a discussion for another time, but this weird little moment in the proposal made me realize a big divide between Godzilla incarnations, designs, and philosophies amongst the people at Toho (and outside!) and I think it really explains a lot about the franchise in general, and where we are at.

Funnily enough, the MV Godzilla, while not physically grotesque, is the most rooted in supernaturalism.

Will the Yamazaki Godzilla be grotesque? Will it be surreal? Keep in mind, I think all of this wording is heavily up to interpretation, but I think it's such an interesting thing that these philosophical ideas were being incorporated into Godzilla.
You bring up amazing points! These make the film have more interesting appeal, you have to wonder, how modern could the design of Godzilla look like in this movie given its release? Its a part I like to wonder about, I kind of picture this Yamazaki Godzilla as a more aggressive late 70s Godzilla with 84 traits but crystalized dorsal fins and maybe even lacking pupils (predating 2000 and GMK) that maybe even glow green and have weird veins in them like initially speculated on Stegosaurus' plates, this could have been the first cosmic Godzilla as he was going to manifested by the aliens via a dinosaur drawing in the Nazca Lines so perhaps some slightly alien features and colors could apply. How ugly could they have made Godzilla look? Or do you think they would have backtracked on this and made him look regal and ethereal in an almost alien and biblical way?

Also, funny to see how MV is now the most supernaturalistic Godzilla when he was initially intended as the polar opposite, a near Nolan-esque, grounded and realistic take. It shows that Hollywood's "gritty realism" phase has a limited shelf life because of how limited the material to make into something grounded is. It's what makes these unmade movies like God's Godzilla fun to think about, they intended to go the most unrealistic and craziest places possible that no Showa era film would have dared to go.
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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by StardustGenius »

Well, looking at what Toho's been working on during that decade, a Godzilla movie with shock value would have been a draw. Prophecies Of Nostradamus is mostly the same crew behind Godzilla vs Hedorah. Mix that in with the colorful and supernatural visuals from HOUSE, and you'd have had an unforgettable Godzilla movie.

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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by miguelnuva »

That's an interesting taking on MV Godzilla because I don't see him as anymore Supernatural than other Godzillas.
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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by AllosaurHell »

StardustGenius wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:57 pm Well, looking at what Toho's been working on during that decade, a Godzilla movie with shock value would have been a draw. Prophecies Of Nostradamus is mostly the same crew behind Godzilla vs Hedorah. Mix that in with the colorful and supernatural visuals from HOUSE, and you'd have had an unforgettable Godzilla movie.
What I would do to travel to a different universe to see this movie, I'd probably show it to my future offspring as a sort of "don't do drugs PSA" so I pass the impact of the film to others. Imagine all the funny scenarios you can have if this movie was made, like watching it on a first date and its aftermath, etc. A Godzilla film experience for the ages.

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miguelnuva wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:17 pm That's an interesting taking on MV Godzilla because I don't see him as anymore Supernatural than other Godzillas.
It mostly has to do with how 2014 was created during that weird late 2000s-early 2010s era to hop on that trend Christopher Nolan began with his Dark Knight trilogy and everyone in Hollywood wanted to remake everything into "dark, gritty, grounded and violent" takes on beloved franchises (The Amazing Spider-Man 1 and Fant4stic for example) and there were concerns before the movie's release that because of the grounded nature of the film, that Godzilla wouldn't shoot his atomic ray (luckily toys confirmed this wasn't the case) and the film was mostly science based in how it depicted the monsters and their histories. It's in King of the Monsters where Ghidorah, and Mothra really brought the supernatural and quickly changed the course for the series because inevitably, you have to throw the realism card out the window because there was never going to be anything realistic and grounded out of a giant, radioactive dinosaur fighting massive assortments of kaiju like aliens and such. Same thing happened with Amazing Spider-Man as I previously mentioned, Sony wanted it to be the Dark Knight of Spider-Man but then backtracked on this in the sequel to make it more traditional in the comics sense.
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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by StardustGenius »

I mentioned this in a previous thread, but a part of me wants to commission some kind of comic/manga adaptation of these unmade Godzilla movies from this period. There's several obstacles preventing this, mainly time, but it's something to consider. My issue would be that there isn't much to work with aside from a quick outline. The Resurrection Of Godzilla however has a lot more content because its documented. I think Akio Jisoji would have been an ideal director for this, far more than Toshio Masuda of Prophecies Of Nostradamus fame (he was busy working on Space Battleship Yamato anyway during this period).

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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

I’d imagine it to look something like this:


Also, if you’ve seen Drifting Classroom 1987 it also might look like that.

I never made the Godzilla Vs Hedorah crew making prophecies of Nostradamus, but now thinking about it it makes a lot of sense.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by StardustGenius »

Yeah, that's a good eye right there! I think it would look A LOT like that. Very out there. While I think The Resurrection Of Godzilla would look like a mix between Magnitude 7.9 (1980) and The Return Of Godzilla, it's a bit harder for me to grasp God's Godzilla. A visual like that I think really is out there, and much closer to the mood.

In regards to the vs Hedorah crew and Prophecies Of Nostradamus, it's almost all the same staff. Yoshimitsu Banno doesn't direct, but he is one of the writers. Toshio Masuda directed PON. I think while apocalyptic in visuals and nature, I think Masuda would not be the right fit. PON is a gorgeous looking movie. But if you've ever seen Akio Jisoji's work, you'll know that this movie wouldn't need to just look good. It'd need to look very weird.

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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by AllosaurHell »

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:28 pm I’d imagine it to look something like this:


Also, if you’ve seen Drifting Classroom 1987 it also might look like that.

I never made the Godzilla Vs Hedorah crew making prophecies of Nostradamus, but now thinking about it it makes a lot of sense.
Somehow, this makes my life easier if I make photo edits of this movie, I can just see the ending of the film looking like that commercial but if it had a child with Nostradamus and Hausu.
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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by StardustGenius »

It's funny that the description between the relationships between Humanity, Godzilla, and this alien claiming to be Jesus are described as a Jungian schema. The imagery between UFOs etc, plays right into the new age spin that was emerging, on UFOs and the subconscious of humanity suggested by Carl Jung decades before this project was in development. I don't entirely agree with Saperstein's take that the movie was unfilmable. Perhaps in 1979-1980.

But not today. Hey, Hideaki Anno, you wanna make something freaky again? Do this. I know you've read the script for this.

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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

StardustGenius wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:22 pm It's funny that the description between the relationships between Humanity, Godzilla, and this alien claiming to be Jesus are described as a Jungian schema. The imagery between UFOs etc, plays right into the new age spin that was emerging, on UFOs and the subconscious of humanity suggested by Carl Jung decades before this project was in development. I don't entirely agree with Saperstein's take that the movie was unfilmable. Perhaps in 1979-1980.

But not today. Hey, Hideaki Anno, you wanna make something freaky again? Do this. I know you've read the script for this.
I have zero evidence to back this up, but I wonder if covergent thinking about something similar to this, led the Millenian+Orga's design in Godzilla Millenium. Minus a Xillien UFO and a fire Dragon here and there, Godzilla films never usually put so much emphasis as a key plot element in a story as Godzilla Millenium. Yet, in that film, we get ancient aliens, that are formless, and are given form through the absorption of human thought, via the internet. If the internet in some ways is the collective unconciousness of humanity, literally realized and not some psychological psuedoscience, then the Millenians and Orga have the largest possibility of being a sort of Jungian monster.

To be clear, I'm not saying this is the intent behind the Millenians and Godzilla Millenium for sure or even at all. However, we know that Toho and Godzilla Screenwriters like reusing/being inspired by ideas from the past that are discarded, and I can't help but think that there's some connection there. The God's Angry Messenger script reminded me of that.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by StardustGenius »

I think it's probably a coincidence, and we're just noticing these things look back. That said, there are some interesting observations I noticed in a similar lost project. The 1980 disaster movie, Magnitude 7.9 I think lifts some segments from the unmade The Resurrection Of Godzilla. Specifically, the segment from the movie where the characters are stuck in the subway, fighting for their lives while Godzilla is destroying the city above. In Magnitude 7.9, there's an extended segment of a pair of characters in the subway trying to escape a collapsing subway, trying to fight rising water and poison gas.

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Re: Lost Project Discussion: God's Godzilla/God's Angry Messenger (1979-1980)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

StardustGenius wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:25 pm I think it's probably a coincidence, and we're just noticing these things look back. That said, there are some interesting observations I noticed in a similar lost project. The 1980 disaster movie, Magnitude 7.9 I think lifts some segments from the unmade The Resurrection Of Godzilla. Specifically, the segment from the movie where the characters are stuck in the subway, fighting for their lives while Godzilla is destroying the city above. In Magnitude 7.9, there's an extended segment of a pair of characters in the subway trying to escape a collapsing subway, trying to fight rising water and poison gas.
It's a pretty harrowing sequence, with people falling off the traincar, dead and lifeless, as the remaining survivors huddle together. While it would have been dark, I sort of wish these sequences made it into Godzilla 1984. Someone should make a super cut that incoporates footage from the other Toho disaster films into the Godzilla 1984. It wouldn't be hard to do or jarring, as they're all mostly visually similar, and Godzilla 1984 itself already borrows some footage from some of the films.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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