Unpopular Opinion Thread

[eabaker]

That's not an unpopular opinion. Spider Man 3 suuuuucked.

Oh you'd be surprised. The entire Spider-Man trilogy has gotten a resurgence including Spider-Man 3, especially in the last couple years thanks to Into the Spider-Verse and No Way Home popularizing the meme culture behind them (3 especially).

Yeah, there's definitely been some Spidey 3 reassessment in recent years. I watched it again prior to NWH - actually, this time I watched the alternate editor's cut - and... it remained not good. I mea, there's no accounting for taste, but by any kind of "critical" standard, it's an awkward, lurching, bumbling mess of poorly interwoven narrative threads and half-assed characterizations.

[Jetty_Jags]

Speaking of Spiderman Unpopular opinions, I really didn't enjoy No way Home either. I understand the whole reason for its existence was to unite the three past Spidey leads together, but the film just stays there. It never really becomes anything more than a cinematic crossover for crossover sake, and honestly, I feel its a pretty disjointed one at that. The narrative feels like it was worked backwards to make certain set pieces occur, and I don't think the film ever finds an organic rhythm. Familiar faces are brought back, but fail to transport any of the pathos from their origin movies (that is those that had it to begin with). To me the film really relies on the nostalgia to do the heavy lifting, and isn't particularly a strong work outside of it. While it certainly tries to be heartfelt at parts, I don't think it ever earnestly induces the sense of wonder and admiration its clearly trying to evoke. If I must give it some positives, I do like how they utilize Aunt May, its a refreshing take on Spidey's character arch, that while not super inventive, is interesting, and provides the narrative with some thematic and emotional weight.

[Mac Daddy MM]

Supernatural forces mixing with modern technology/future sci-fi stuff is a highly underrated and underused concept. There's not too many good examples of demonic entities using modern technology to slay, and ones that are are usually just regulated to possessed vehicles (The Car and Christine). However, it just seems to be a natural step when there's even religious stories about angels/demons using mythical weapons such as a flaming sword. Not to say anything of Greek mythology and stuff of divine weapons. When you take these same beings/things and put them in the modern/future age, it only makes sense for these forces to use their own versions of weapons of today. Why have a flaming sword... When you can have a gun that never runs out of ammo or can kill anything? This concept was used pretty well in Supernatural, and that's it. There's only been a few instances of "alien ghosts", or "haunted spaceships" and its very arguable how well it was pulled off in each (I do love Event Horizon though).

Characters like Spawn and Ghost Rider really show how well mixing it can work. It's just a shame there isn't more of it.

[Dracosaurian]

Supernatural forces mixing with modern technology/future sci-fi stuff is a highly underrated and underused concept. There's not too many good examples of demonic entities using modern technology to slay, and ones that are are usually just regulated to possessed vehicles (The Car and Christine). However, it just seems to be a natural step when there's even religious stories about angels/demons using mythical weapons such as a flaming sword. Not to say anything of Greek mythology and stuff of divine weapons. When you take these same beings/things and put them in the modern/future age, it only makes sense for these forces to use their own versions of weapons of today. Why have a flaming sword... When you can have a gun that never runs out of ammo or can kill anything? This concept was used pretty well in Supernatural, and that's it. There's only been a few instances of "alien ghosts", or "haunted spaceships" and its very arguable how well it was pulled off in each (I do love Event Horizon though).

Characters like Spawn and Ghost Rider really show how well mixing it can work. It's just a shame there isn't more of it.

Hmmm. Well, there's things like Gods and demons fighting aliens and such in Warhammer 40K if you're interested? They've also got Orks, Space Elves, and iirc, their version of Dwarves as well. They've even got robot Space Egyptians with ridiculously advanced technology/weapons.

[mikelcho]

Supernatural forces mixing with modern technology/future sci-fi stuff is a highly underrated and underused concept. There's not too many good examples of demonic entities using modern technology to slay, and ones that are are usually just regulated to possessed vehicles (The Car and Christine). However, it just seems to be a natural step when there's even religious stories about angels/demons using mythical weapons such as a flaming sword. Not to say anything of Greek mythology and stuff of divine weapons. When you take these same beings/things and put them in the modern/future age, it only makes sense for these forces to use their own versions of weapons of today. Why have a flaming sword... When you can have a gun that never runs out of ammo or can kill anything? This concept was used pretty well in Supernatural, and that's it. There's only been a few instances of "alien ghosts", or "haunted spaceships" and its very arguable how well it was pulled off in each (I do love Event Horizon though).

Characters like Spawn and Ghost Rider really show how well mixing it can work. It's just a shame there isn't more of it.

Speaking of supernatural vehicles, I give you the novel From a Buick 8 by Stephen King, which features an extradimensional car. And DC Comics has the Ace of Winchesters, a demon-forged Winchester rifle that's capable of killing any mortal or immortal being, no mater who - or what - that being may be.

[Terasawa]

There's not too many good examples of demonic entities using modern technology to slay, and ones that are are usually just regulated to possessed vehicles (The Car and Christine).

It's not quite supernatural (he's an incorporeal being instead), but Jack the Ripper possesses a few people and enters the Enterprise computer in "Wolf in the Fold" in the original Star Trek (not one of their finest hours). Babylon 5 also did a futuristic Jack the Ripper story, but it's been so long that I don't recall offhand if his presence there was rational or supernatural.

Actually, there's an episode of the animated Star Trek in which the biblical Lucifer turns out to be a member of a species that inhabits a magic universe (err... something like that). I feel like these kind of supernatural-evil-in-grounded-sci-fi stories turn up not infrequently. It's not quite the same thing you're talking about, but Star Trek has dipped into the "mythical beings encountered in the future" well on several occasions, although usually with the supernatural entities discovered to be quite natural and merely advanced beyond scientific understanding.

[Maverick Centigrade]

Speaking of the mixing or supernatural and scientific. When I was much younger I thought it was so strange how the Marvel Universe had all aspects of that mingling with each other. In the same city you could have Spider-Man stop a bank robbery. And then at night Ghost Rider would emerge to chase demonic foes.

[godjacob]

Speaking of the mixing or supernatural and scientific. When I was much younger I thought it was so strange how the Marvel Universe had all aspects of that mingling with each other. In the same city you could have Spider-Man stop a bank robbery. And then at night Ghost Rider would emerge to chase demonic foes.

I kinda like it, then again I dig the fantasy kitchen sink trope so that is more my bias XD but adds variety to a setting and makes even similar locations unique as different kinds of heroes can look with different POVs.

[LegendZilla]

I think that mixing the supernatural with scientific works best with Arthur C. Clarke's 3rd law.

[ShinGojira14]

I think that mixing the supernatural with scientific works best with Arthur C. Clarke's 3rd law.

That being?

[LegendZilla]

I think that mixing the supernatural with scientific works best with Arthur C. Clarke's 3rd law.

That being?

He wrote that any sufficiently advanced technology will appear to be magic to a simpler and more primitive mind.

[SpiderZilla]

I think that mixing the supernatural with scientific works best with Arthur C. Clarke's 3rd law.

That being?

He wrote that any sufficiently advanced technology will appear to be magic to a simpler and more primitive mind.

Arthur C. Clarke’s Three Laws:

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

[Jetty_Jags]

I find the criticism of the "fridging" trope (source: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... oTheFridge) particularly in the use of comic book superhero stories to be particularly lazy, and lacking a key degree of contextual awareness. My biggest problem is that it is often cherry picking the more horrific examples (that may be deserving of criticism individually), without realizing that the greater narrative cliché they are commenting on is just one facet of the foundation of most of these stories. At their core, the majority of superhero stories in comic books have been power fantasies, either a display of amazing spectacle reveling in its absurdity (a la the silver age), or against the ever darkening circumstances (a la bronze and modern era comics). And the way most of these stories create the power fantasy, is through causing strife at the expense of side characters, for the development of the protagonist. Whether its placing civilians on board a crashing train for superman to save, having civilians held hostage to be rescued, or beating a young apprentice to death with a crowbar, the continuing central dilemma of the genre is identical to the "fridging" trope, varying only in severity (in some instances). The genre is built around motivating the hero by the destruction in the world around them, its no surprise that the "fridging" phenomena would occur, because it isn't even a phenomena, rather a specific manifestation of the narrative engine of the genre. Now this doesn't mean stories can't utilize these tropes lazily, or go needlessly obscene, and on the flip side, stories can create a greater degree of depth to these types of stories or write around them entirely (if a skilled enough author is present), but rather commenting on their existence isn't really that surprising. One may as well decry the inclusion of upbeat songs to end musicals.

[SpiderZilla]

I find the criticism of the "fridging" trope (source: […]) particularly in the use of comic book superhero stories to be particularly lazy, and lacking a key degree of contextual awareness. My biggest problem is that it is often cherry picking the more horrific examples (that may be deserving of criticism individually), without realizing that the greater narrative cliché they are commenting on is just one facet of the foundation of most of these stories. At their core, the majority of superhero stories in comic books have been power fantasies, either a display of amazing spectacle reveling in its absurdity (a la the silver age), or against the ever darkening circumstances (a la bronze and modern era comics). And the way most of these stories create the power fantasy, is through causing strife at the expense of side characters, for the development of the protagonist. Whether its placing civilians on board a crashing train for superman to save, having civilians held hostage to be rescued, or beating a young apprentice to death with a crowbar, the continuing central dilemma of the genre is identical to the "fridging" trope, varying only in severity (in some instances). The genre is built around motivating the hero by the destruction in the world around them, its no surprise that the "fridging" phenomena would occur, because it isn't even a phenomena, rather a specific manifestation of the narrative engine of the genre. Now this doesn't mean stories can't utilize these tropes lazily, or go needlessly obscene, and on the flip side, stories can create a greater degree of depth to these types of stories or write around them entirely (if a skilled enough author is present), but rather commenting on their existence isn't really that surprising. One may as well decry the inclusion of upbeat songs to end musicals.

Per the home page on tvtropes-org: “They are not bad, they are not good; tropes are tools that the creator of a work of art uses to express their ideas to the audience. It's pretty much impossible to create a story without tropes.”

Identifying a story element as “fridging” is not necessarily a criticism even though bad examples can be found.

[Jetty_Jags]

I should have specified that when I mean people criticize a work for fridging, I’m not talking about instances of people simply pointing it out (a la tvtropes), but use it demean a work, either declaring the trope as an example of lazy writing or when used against a female side character declaring the trope as misogynistic. My issue with this is that it’s really not a different trope then what the genre is built off of, and if anything it’s just bringing the central narrative driving force to its logical extreme. If a superhero story should be condemned for fridging the entire genre should receive the same criticism, otherwise I find the argument intellectually inconsistent.

[godjacob]

I should have specified that when I mean people criticize a work for fridging, I’m not talking about instances of people simply pointing it out (a la tvtropes), but use it demean a work, either declaring the trope as an example of lazy writing or when used against a female side character declaring the trope as misogynistic. My issue with this is that it’s really not a different trope then what the genre is built off of, and if anything it’s just bringing the central narrative driving force to its logical extreme. If a superhero story should be condemned for fridging the entire genre should receive the same criticism, otherwise I find the argument intellectually inconsistent.

I mean to be fair, more often than not it is just a case of lazy writing. It can be done in a fine enough way but it is also incredibly easy to fuck up as it basically reduces another character to a cheap prop for someone else's story.

Overly Sarcastic Productions has a great video on the topic.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

I'd take Claire of the Jurassic World films over practically every other character in the Jurassic franchise.

[Xx_The_Masquerade_xX]

I prefer films from the 80's and early 90's when movies were generally 70 to 90 minutes in runtime.

I just think a lot movies of today are just bloated with a bunch unnecessary content such as side plots, messages, and characters that eventually either go nowhere or don't pay off.

[godjacob]

I prefer films from the 80's and early 90's when movies were generally 70 to 90 minutes in runtime.

I just think a lot movies of today are just bloated with a bunch unnecessary content such as side plots, messages, and characters that eventually either go nowhere or don't pay off.

Seinfeld made a whole gag about the English Patient and its tedious length. Longer movies are more common these days but there were plenty of long plotting movies even back then.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I prefer films from the 80's and early 90's when movies were generally 70 to 90 minutes in runtime.

I just think a lot movies of today are just bloated with a bunch unnecessary content such as side plots, messages, and characters that eventually either go nowhere or don't pay off.

There are some movies where 2-3 hours are completely justified.

However, as I get busier and busier in my personal life, I begin to appreciate films more that are under two hours. Under two hours is enough time to enjoy after dinner and then still have time to relax after that, assuming the film starts around dinner time.