Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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Voyager wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:57 pm So… do people say AMA is the greatest movie in the franchise?
That guy exists. I haven't met him, yet, but we both know he's out there. And he's a better fan than any of us.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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Voyager wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:57 pm
eabaker wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:55 pm Regardless of the numbers, the opinions on it tend to be in polar opposition.
So… do people say AMA is the greatest movie in the franchise?
I've never seen or heard a single person day that. Even those that love the film wouldn't say that.

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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Post by canofhumdingers »

Legion1979 wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:17 pm Regarding the score, my guess is they screwed around so much with the movie and edited it so aggressively that they couldn't salvage the score. Probably the exact same reason (though to a lesser extent) Ghidrah's score suffered so badly.
I never thought of that but that sounds like a very logical reason. Interesting.

Although it does beg the question how the editors of G:KotM were able to keep ifukube’s work basically unharmed while Kong and Ghidrah’s editors weren’t?

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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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Maybe they just cared more. I wouldn't be shocked if the editors of KKvsG were so determined to Americanize it as much as possible that they felt the Ifukube score sounded too Japanese, or something stupid like that. Ironically the piece of music they chose to open the film with has sections that sound so stereotypically oriental is almost comes off as racist.

The edits to Ghidrah infuriate me. There was no reason for it. Most of Ifukube's score is gone or edited down in some way. The impact of several scenes - ESPECIALLY Godzilla coming ashore in Yokohama - are ruined by completely arbitrary audio and visual edits. It blows my mind that people say the Continental edit improved that film.
Last edited by Legion1979 on Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Post by canofhumdingers »

Well, the Ghidrah edit did fix the nonsensical swapping back and forth between day and night, which is usually the main reason people give for liking the editing choices.

But yeah, the loss of ifukube’s work is pretty much never worth whatever you gain.

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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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canofhumdingers wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:38 am Well, the Ghidrah edit did fix the nonsensical swapping back and forth between day and night, which is usually the main reason people give for liking the editing choices.
At the cost of so much else.

Anything Continental may have fixed is negated by Godzilla appearing in the bay at Yokohama, then on land and then back in the water again. Lol now THAT is nonsensical.

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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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canofhumdingers wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:02 am Although it does beg the question how the editors of G:KotM were able to keep ifukube’s work basically unharmed...
They didn't, really. It's hard to hear the music over the sound effects a lot of times, though, so the edit points are effectively disguised. The soundtrack editing is sometimes quite obvious, though: for example, the music scoring the frantic evacuation before Godzilla's first appearance in Tokyo is doubled for some reason, but not in sync, so you can hear the trumpet melody clash against itself (it's kinda hard to describe,so here it is on YouTube). There's more of this through both Godzilla rampages.
Legion1979 wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:25 am I wouldn't be shocked if the editors of KKvsG were so determined to Americanize it as much as possible that they felt the Ifukube score sounded too Japanese, or something stupid like that. Ironically the piece of music they chose to open the film with has sections that sound so stereotypically oriental is almost comes off as racist.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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Voyager wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:57 pm
eabaker wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:55 pm Regardless of the numbers, the opinions on it tend to be in polar opposition.
So… do people say AMA is the greatest movie in the franchise?
No, nor do most of its critics say it is the worst. But responses tend to be split between the semi-broad categories of "love" and "hate."
Last edited by eabaker on Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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eabaker wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:10 am
Voyager wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:57 pm
eabaker wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:55 pm Regardless of the numbers, the opinions on it tend to be in polar opposition.
So… do people say AMA is the greatest movie in the franchise?
No, nor do most of its critics say it is the worst. But responses tend to be split between the semi-broad categories of "love" and "hate."
I’d argue otherwise. Outside TK, not much has changed. Sure, the Polygon trilogy came out and nearly everyone unanimously hated it, but it never got to the save level as the pure hatred felt towards AMA. Outside TK I’d be willing to be AMA is still considered the worst movie by a vast majority.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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Voyager wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:14 pm I’d argue otherwise. Outside TK, not much has changed. Sure, the Polygon trilogy came out and nearly everyone unanimously hated it, but it never got to the save level as the pure hatred felt towards AMA.
Nah. Ive seen people say things about the Polygon trilogy that I've NEVER seen anyone say about Godzllla's Revenge.
Outside TK I’d be willing to be AMA is still considered the worst movie by a vast majority.
That "vast majority" needs to grow up.

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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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There’s a lot of passion there so I’m just gonna leave it alone, I don’t wanna get bit -_-
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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Voyager wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:35 pm There’s a lot of passion there so I’m just gonna leave it alone, I don’t wanna get bit -_-
To be a little less incendiary, it's insane that people conveniently forget movies likes Final Wars or the Polygon trilogy exist when they want to talk crap about a Godzilla movie. So they tend to pick the one that least deserves that kind of hate.

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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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Legion1979 wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:40 pm To be a little less incendiary, it's insane that people conveniently forget movies likes Final Wars or the Polygon trilogy exist when they want to talk crap about a Godzilla movie.
IMO, AMA and the Polygon trilogy suffer the same story problem – they put Godzilla in the back seat to what is essentially a human drama.

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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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SpiderZilla wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:29 pm
Legion1979 wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:40 pm To be a little less incendiary, it's insane that people conveniently forget movies likes Final Wars or the Polygon trilogy exist when they want to talk crap about a Godzilla movie.
IMO, AMA and the Polygon trilogy suffer the same story problem – they put Godzilla in the back seat to what is essentially a human drama.
That's not really a story "problem". Shin Godzilla has been praised to hell and back, made a ton of money, won multiple awards and quickly became THE face of the franchise in Japan. But Godzilla isn't really the draw. A good movie could definitely be made without putting Godzilla front and center. I dont like Shin Godzilla but I'm not going to sit here and say it's a bad movie. It absolutely succeeded at what it meant to do. And Japanese audiences responded to it BECAUSE of the human side of the story and how it satirizes real issues in their country.

Godzilla's Revenge doesn't have "story problems". It was always meant to be a different type of movie - a simple kids film set in the real world where Godzilla doesn't exist. Everything I've learned about the movie indicates this was never meant to be a mainline Godzilla movie. Toho didn't even bother localizing the thing for international release. The movie is about a little boy, very similar to most Japanese children at the time, growing up in a world of harsh realities. The problem is that everyone approaches it as just another Godzilla film and comes away pissed off because it isn't doing what they want a Godzilla movie to do.

The Polygon trilogy are just thunderously boring films with wasted ideas and a godawful aesthetic. They're straight out bad movies. And the last 5 years of the Japanese side of the franchise is worse off for their existence. These movies could disappear tomorrow and it would improve how I feel about the direction Toho has taken. Their existance makes Final Wars tolerable.

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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Post by daveblackeye15 »

I've come to like King Kong vs. Godzilla's Japanese version a lot more. At first I didn't really like the humor but now I appreciate it lampshades the rivalry. There are certainly music cues I love about the American version. Such as the Black Lagoon's theme when Godzilla comes out of the pit still alive or that tension moment as Kong waits to grab Godzilla's tail while hiding.

Anyway Godzilla doesn't have to be super front and center the whole time. My issue of that with Final Wars is it just feels like the director was so much more interested in his human action scenes than the kaiju scenes. Like I could forgive rushing the other monster scenes if the final one was better. But it's barely the monsters and more watching the humans and aliens fight. Yes there is ALWAYS going to be more human scenes to Godzilla but when Ozaki gets three fights in a row while Godzilla is barely seen overcoming Monster X that's when I know he cares less about Godzilla and more on his humans.

Which is a drag because aside from the human I think the movie is quite fun up until the Gotengo crew get kidnapped. The last act ruins a lot of it.

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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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A question regarding Oodako; Do you prefer the version seen here, or the one from the ending of FCtW? Having a live octopus does make it look more lifelike, but the super imposing effect doesn't always look convincing. Sometimes it can, but then you have scenes, like the natives in front of the octopus and throwing spears, that don't look as good.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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edgaguirus wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:25 pm A question regarding Oodako; Do you prefer the version seen here, or the one from the ending of FCtW?
I prefer this version overall, still one of my favorite parts of the film. The superimposing of the natives looks bad but the octopus slithering in and attacking the hut looks great.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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It also looks creepier.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

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edgaguirus wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:25 pm A question regarding Oodako; Do you prefer the version seen here, or the one from the ending of FCtW? Having a live octopus does make it look more lifelike, but the super imposing effect doesn't always look convincing. Sometimes it can, but then you have scenes, like the natives in front of the octopus and throwing spears, that don't look as good.
I prefer the prop from Frankenstein vs Baragon/War of the Gargantuas. Not just from an effects standpoint, but also from an ethical standpoint.
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Re: Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Post by Voyager »

I like the prop Octopus, but mostly thanks to the battles with other kaiju.
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