Guide to Toho Film/TV Distributors

For the discussion of Toho DVDs, Blu-Rays, CDs, streaming services, VHS, and other formats where Toho films and soundtracks can be found.
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Major sssspielberg!
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Big shout out to all you guys figuring this stuff out. Sometimes trying to keep track of International rights with Toho makes me crosseyed and I'm just reading what y'all already found out lmao
Kaltes-Herzeleid wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:44 am I love Final Wars. I praise Final Wars. Simple as.

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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by Terasawa »

Major sssspielberg! wrote:Big shout out to all you guys figuring this stuff out. Sometimes trying to keep track of International rights with Toho makes me crosseyed and I'm just reading what y'all already found out lmao
We're doing it so you can show these movies to your son when he’s born, Major Thpielberg?!?
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Terasawa wrote:
Major sssspielberg! wrote:
We're doing it so you can show these movies to your son when he’s born, Major Thpielberg?!?
Sir yes sir!

.... I will sir
Kaltes-Herzeleid wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:44 am I love Final Wars. I praise Final Wars. Simple as.

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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by mikelcho »

Unfortunately, Terasawa, I don't have a copy of G-Fan #121 at hand.

I do, however, remember that in the same article, MGM said they had no interest in releasing the three films they own. I figure that's how bad a condition they're in. It might be more than just turning pink, but I'm not sure (and I don't remember how bad of a shade of pink it was).

Can anyone please help both of us out by putting online the part of the article I'm talking about - he to see it and I to refer to it? Thanks in advance!
Last edited by mikelcho on Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:23 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

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It's a nearly 9 page article about The Human Vapor, and extensive chart of all the scene changes and rearrangement made by Brenco with several still photos from the film and Production photos, but everything we've been discussing is encapsulated in the last paragraph. While its worth noting the 1986 Prism release seems to be the "last" VHS release, it was certainly not the only one, at least 2 other versions were released on VHS prior.

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Last edited by o.supreme on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

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o.supreme wrote:It's a nearly 9 page article about The Human Vapor, and extensive chart of all the scene changes and rearrangement made by Brenco with several still photos from the film and Production photos, but everything we've been discussing is encapsilated in the last paragraph.
Thanks!

No citation and nothing new: unfortunately it's just the same old vague rumors, which have persisted for at least a decade, being peddled. I wouldn't consider that alone the definitive word that the film elements are unusable.
While its woth notgint he 1986 Prism release seems to be the "last" VHS release, it was certainly not the only one, at least 2 other versions were released on VHS prior.
Yes, I only know of three: Video Gems' big box (1985), Congress Video Group (1985), and the Prism tape. It was also released in the UK by Iver Film Services.

I know Gorath was released by all of the above in the U.S. as well but also in Canada from Interglobal. I'm not sure if they likewise released Vapor or The Last War... If they did, I've never seen copies of those tapes.
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by o.supreme »

The only Last War VHS I know of is the one from Video Gems I had submitted right here on TK ;)

https://www.tohokingdom.com/articles/im ... ogems.html
Last edited by o.supreme on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by heiseigodzilla425 »

Terasawa wrote:
o.supreme wrote:It's a nearly 9 page article about The Human Vapor, and extensive chart of all the scene changes and rearrangement made by Brenco with several still photos from the film and Production photos, but everything we've been discussing is encapsilated in the last paragraph.
Thanks!

No citation and nothing new: unfortunately it's just the same old vague rumors, which have persisted for at least a decade, being peddled. I wouldn't consider that alone the definitive word that the film elements are unusable.
GaryT on the increasingly defunct Sci-Fi Japan / Monster Zero forums worked with MGM at one point. I believe they're the source of that claim, since they used to work at MGM. Given the state of those forums these days, its hard to search for a specific post where they made that claim.

For the time being, here's some evidence that they worked there, along with some notes on how MGM acquired the Toho titles:
GaryT wrote:GORATH, THE LAST WAR and THE HUMAN VAPOR are currently with MGM; it acquired them when it bought the Orion library several years ago. (Orion had acquired Goldwyn.)
GaryT wrote:
kpa wrote:Go with what GaryT posted about GORATH, THE LAST WAR and THE HUMAN VAPOR; he works with MGM so he would be in the know regarding those films.

Sony no longers distributes home video for MGM so they wouldn't be involved in any DVDs for these films. Since MGM owns them they would be naturals for the Midnite Movies line.
The confusion over Goldwyn stems from the fact that there was the old Samuel Goldwyn film library that MGM acquired as part of their purchase of the Orion library; there is The Samuel Goldwyn Company, which continues to exist as a independent film company with no ties to MGM; and there was Goldwyn Films, which MGM briefly created as an arthouse label of its own (I think Samuel Goldwyn sued over the too-similar name).

As I said, the three Brenco Toho titles are part of the old Samuel Goldwyn library that MGM still owns. Unfortunately, I think it's very unlikely that MGM will do anything with them in the foreseeable future.

AIP's rights to THE LOST WORLD OF SINBAD expired a couple years ago, so in theory it should be available to license in the U.S.
Source: http://www.scifijapan.com/forum/viewtop ... 60#p270760

EDIT: Found a post where they claim that the film elements are in poor condition:
GaryT wrote:
SeaHawk wrote:I thought MGM had poor quality film elements, not just tape transfers...?
MGM has both--lousy old transfers, and poor film elements.
Source: http://www.scifijapan.com/forum/viewtop ... gm#p387432
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by o.supreme »

Yeah, I know I've emailed MGM a few times in the past, with no response. I appreciate what fan preservation there is up.to this point, some have syncd up english audio with japanese video sources, but when the english credits are interspliced it's jarringly different. Still it's far better than nothing at all.
Last edited by o.supreme on Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by Terasawa »

heiseigodzilla425 wrote: EDIT: Found a post where they claim that the film elements are in poor condition:
GaryT wrote:
SeaHawk wrote:I thought MGM had poor quality film elements, not just tape transfers...?
MGM has both--lousy old transfers, and poor film elements.
Source: http://www.scifijapan.com/forum/viewtop ... gm#p387432
That jives with my memory, and thanks for taking the time to find that.

Poor condition ≠ unusable, however, unless Gary or someone else in the know had said specifically that the film elements were beyond repair. That's the claim I'd like to know the original source of.

And of course those lousy old transfers he refers to are still being used. It's probably been a couple of years now but the transfer of Gorath that played on Comet TV was identical to the transfer Video Gems released in 1985. Oof.
o.supreme wrote:The only Last War VHS I know of is the one from Video Gems I had submitted right here on TK ;)

https://www.tohokingdom.com/articles/im ... ogems.html
I've never been able to find evidence of any other analog release, either.
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by Joseph Goodman »

The earliest claim I can recall seeing about the state of the Brenco titles' elements was posted by Stuart Galbraith IV on the Godzillaforum Yahoo! Group on Feb. 18, 2003:
I ran into exactly the same problem when MGM wanted to remaster
GORATH, THE HUMAN VAPOR, and, surprise-surprise, KING KONG VS.
GODZILLA. By this time all the film elements owned by MGM were nearly
40 years old -- INs with faded color, splices becoming unglued, etc.
There wasn't much to work with.

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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by Chrispy_G »

If all of these old sources were eventually gone beyond repair....what would or could be a modern solution?

I'm not asking in a 'what could fans do' type of way....but, there is arguably value/interest in providing dubbed versions of these movies internationally....dubbing is not seen as a thing of the past. Shin Godzilla and the Anime Trilogy were dubbed. Many modern anime films and series are dubbed.

But...for a lot of these films there either aren't dubs, or versions with dubs might be in increasingly poor condition or condition beyond restoration.

Even if Toho restored their entire catalog of films, in Japanese, to a gorgeous state....what then? Would they themselves ever commission new 'international dubs'....or would there have to be a hope that any North American distributor would commission one of their own? THAT seems few and far between. Mill Creek did it for the final Daimajin film.

We also see many cases where companies are more or less content to just release whatever is available. Unless a company that EXISTS to produce in-house dubs and release international products like Funimation was picking up the films....I don't see the 'new Dub commissioned' thing being a common avenue.

And....a troubling idea is that, as these films age....does some of the 'value' go down? Like, in the eyes of distributors, in a waning home media market....do these older catalog titles fall into a range of 'not worth putting any extra effort into?'

It is kind of a sad state of affairs no matter how you want to look at it.
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by o.supreme »

As we've seen with the Mysterians and the 3rd Majin film, even older films can get new dubs. I've no doubt that Brand New dubs could easily be made for these 3 films, they could even be good if Toho allowed an american studio to produce them . However the nostalgia factor is what is lost. Having these 3 films look and sound as close to possible as they did when first released in American Theaters would be a very costly undertaking. Not impossible, just not worth the effort unfortunately to those in financial control.
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by Terasawa »

Toho produced an export version of The Last War in the early ‘60s so presumably there’s no reason that film should have to be redubbed.

But there’s also no reason to think Toho would have to redub these movies anyway as they’re the property of MGM in perpetuity. Toho could have the films dubbed for other markets in which they control the rights, but they’d be legally prohibited from releasing those versions in the U.S. and apparently much of Europe, for example.
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

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mikelcho wrote: *Godzilla vs. Biollante is owned by Lionsgate (however, are they connected to Miramax in any way, shape or form?).
How do you know that? Wikipedia claims the same thing, but I haven't seen any proof.

BTW, Lionsgate was connected to Miramax, but a few months ago ViacomCBS (which owns Paramount) obtained a significant minority stake in Miramax. So, I dunno how that affects the distribution rights to Miramax's library (or at least how quickly it would be before rights would theoretically revert to Miramax and possibly Paramount).
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

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John Pannozzi wrote:
mikelcho wrote: *Godzilla vs. Biollante is owned by Lionsgate (however, are they connected to Miramax in any way, shape or form?).
How do you know that? Wikipedia claims the same thing, but I haven't seen any proof.

BTW, Lionsgate was connected to Miramax, but a few months ago ViacomCBS (which owns Paramount) obtained a significant minority stake in Miramax. So, I dunno how that affects the distribution rights to Miramax's library (or at least how quickly it would before rights would theoretically revert to Miramax and possibly Paramount).
The last company to release Godzilla vs. Biollante was Lionsgate, so I figured they still had it. It seems I might be wrong here, though.

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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

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mikelcho wrote:
John Pannozzi wrote:
mikelcho wrote: *Godzilla vs. Biollante is owned by Lionsgate (however, are they connected to Miramax in any way, shape or form?).
How do you know that? Wikipedia claims the same thing, but I haven't seen any proof.

BTW, Lionsgate was connected to Miramax, but a few months ago ViacomCBS (which owns Paramount) obtained a significant minority stake in Miramax. So, I dunno how that affects the distribution rights to Miramax's library (or at least how quickly it would before rights would theoretically revert to Miramax and possibly Paramount).
The last company to release Godzilla vs. Biollante was Lionsgate, so I figured they still had it. It seems I might be wrong here, though.
From

https://variety.com/2019/biz/news/viaco ... 203449765/:
ViacomCBS’ Paramount Pictures gets an exclusive long-term deal for worldwide distribution rights to Miramax’s library of about 700 movies.
If Biollante's rights still lie with Miramax (I have no reason to assume otherwise), I guess that Paramount would take over the USA video rights once Lionsgate's deal with Miramax ends.
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by Tohosaurus »

Maybe I've missed the conversation but does Sony still have Godzilla vs King Ghidorah and Godzilla & Mothra: Battle for Earth? Both digital and disc media seems to be phasing out, or maybe it's just me.

Would surprise me if they don't have them.
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by UltramanGoji »

Tohosaurus wrote:Maybe I've missed the conversation but does Sony still have Godzilla vs King Ghidorah and Godzilla & Mothra: Battle for Earth? Both digital and disc media seems to be phasing out, or maybe it's just me.

Would surprise me if they don't have them.
I think they do currently but the contract is up super-soon, like next-year soon.
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Re: Guide to Toho Film Distributors

Post by heiseigodzilla425 »

Tohosaurus wrote:Maybe I've missed the conversation but does Sony still have Godzilla vs King Ghidorah and Godzilla & Mothra: Battle for Earth? Both digital and disc media seems to be phasing out, or maybe it's just me.

Would surprise me if they don't have them.
Its quite possible. Back on page 6 of this thread I posted a link to a thread on the SciFi Japan forums where Keith Aiken posted the renewal dates for most of Sony's rights for their Toho-produced movies. Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah and Godzilla vs. Mothra were due for renewal in 2019. If Sony did not renew their rights for those movies, its very possible that those Blu-rays are out of print now.

If Sony is letting all of their rights lapse, then they'll loose another 7 movies in 2023 (including the rest of their Heisei Godzilla movies), 2 movies in 2025, and another 3 movies at an unknown date.

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