Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

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godjacob
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by godjacob »

My issue with the second brain isn't the science or anything of the like, but how it only seems to matter in this one film. It wasn't mentioned or even hinted at in the prior Heisei films, and even after knowing of it G-Force does nothing with the knowledge in the following films (You'd think Mogera would at the very least be given those brain smashing cables).
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by Rando Yaguchi »

godjacob wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:31 pm My issue with the second brain isn't the science or anything of the like, but how it only seems to matter in this one film. It wasn't mentioned or even hinted at in the prior Heisei films
Oh for sure, just one of many inconsistencies in the Heisei continuity.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

What bothered me was that, IIRC, some dinosaurs were theorized to have a nerve cluster rather than a "second brain."
It is a nitpick of the Heisei that they never exploit the magic weaknesses again. Bird calls, ANEB, or the second brain.
Still, imo GvsMGII is one of my personal favorite Godzilla movies so I can let the nitpicks slide.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by Terasawa »

godjacob wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:31 pm My issue with the second brain isn't the science or anything of the like, but how it only seems to matter in this one film. It wasn't mentioned or even hinted at in the prior Heisei films, and even after knowing of it G-Force does nothing with the knowledge in the following films (You'd think Mogera would at the very least be given those brain smashing cables).
They didn't discover it until they studied Baby.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by The Calico »

Terasawa wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:40 pm
Rando Yaguchi wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:02 pm
Terasawa wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:49 am The pseudo-science in this film that annoys me is Godzilla's second brain. It's not the first time a Godzilla movie has used an outdated or flawed understanding of paleontology, but it feels more egregious an error in a movie made in 1993 than in the '50s.
When has paleontological accuracy ever been an element in kaiju eiga? A second brain isn't out of place with Godzilla's many wacky traits.
It hasn't been, but at the same time, not very many Toho kaiju films have used any sort of paleontological explanation for the monsters, and certainly very few since the '50s, anyway. Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II is one of the last to attempt that, and thus my point -- it's easier for me to shrug off Yamane's "2 million years ago in the Cretaceous" or other such laughable errors in early kaiju movies because of the the poor public understanding of paleontology and the (in)ability of science fiction film writers to accurately research the science themselves at that time.

I just did a little Googling and couldn't come up with anything concrete, but my mind's telling me that the second brain idea (if it was ever widely accepted by the scientific community) was disproved sometime during the dinosaur renaissance. To be fair to Wataru Mimura, perhaps it wasn't, or perhaps it was still recently-accepted. But all I'm saying is that it's just more difficult for me to mentally excuse flawed science like that in the '90s than the '50s.

I vaguely remember coming across a dinosaur book from the '80s/'90s claiming that the Brontosaurus had a second brain. A more specific example, the early-'90s children's book "Inside Dinosaurs and Other Prehistoric Creatures" (by Ted Dewan) brings up the "second brain" of a Stegosaurus but states that it was more likely to be a bulge or lump of nerves. Stegosaurus picture & text here: https://chasmosaurs.blogspot. com/2011/05/vintage-dinosaur-art-inside-dinosaurs.html

More recently, Discovery aired the mini-series "Clash of the Dinosaurs" in 2009, which claims that a sauropod had a second brain by taking one expert's words out of context. He wrote a couple blog posts about it here: https://svpow. com/2009/12/17/clash-of-the-dinosaurs-dangerous-ltd-document-their-own-dishonest-editing/

I don't know when it was disproved either, but the idea of a second brain/nerves has been popular enough to persist for decades. I think it's fair for the filmmakers to expect some in the audience (especially children) to have heard of the theory and to be willing to believe that it was true for Godzilla, if not for other dinosaurs.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by edgaguirus »

Though Moguera might have been given such a weapon, or create vehicles armed with G-Crushers. Anyhow, it's just another weakness or strategy that gets forgotten, just like Showa Godzilla pulling out powers and abilities that never get used again.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

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edgaguirus wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm Though Moguera might have been given such a weapon, or create vehicles armed with G-Crushers. Anyhow, it's just another weakness or strategy that gets forgotten, just like Showa Godzilla pulling out powers and abilities that never get used again.
I wouldn't say "just like", considering most of the Showa films were meant to be standalone experiences, while the Heisei series tried to adhere to tight continuity. Just one more reason it's necessary to hold those later films to a higher expectation that they so often fail to meet for me.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by GodzillaDude »

Some of you guys are way overthinking it, but hey we all have our thing!

Anyway I absolutely love Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II. On my latest rewatch it still holds up for me very well unlike aspects of GvKG. Not only is it my favorite of the Heisei era but it’s probably within my top 5 of the entire franchise. It just has all I could ask for with this interaction of Godzilla. This is the effects of the Heisei series at its highest point (alongside Biollante herself and Destroyah), they lmplemented more physical combat than usual for this era with Godzilla choking Rodan as he coughed up blood and then injecting those surges into Godzilla’s second brain. Baby was a nice reinvention update for the time and it felt like it had real stakes to it. The climax with Godzilla being revived and then using the spiral ray is one of the most geek out worthy moments of the franchise for me. Not to mention possibly Akira Ifukube’s best work as a composer.

I also personally loved the Godzilla suit, bulkiness and all, even in GvSG too. 🤷‍♂️

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

In the context of the Godzilla series, this is one of my favorites. As a kid (and an adult) I loved that MGII perfectly nails antihero Godzilla. I know it's the least popular MG design, but I loved how methodical and cold it felt, in contrast to the lively Showa MG. And for all the character and writing problems, Godzilla's revival and overcoming MG is such a triumphant moment.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by edgaguirus »

Major sssspielberg! wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:47 am And for all the character and writing problems, Godzilla's revival and overcoming MG is such a triumphant moment.
The looks on the faces of the scientists and military officers are priceless.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by Voyager »

Nothing is more badass than the most powerful Mechagodzilla being dismantled by some crazy super saiyan Godzilla beam.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

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I love how none of the characters are at all concerned about radiation when Baby Godzilla is born.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by Voyager »

shadowgigan wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:44 pm I love how none of the characters are at all concerned about radiation when Baby Godzilla is born.
It's a Heisei movie. None of these things are consistent or present.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

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Voyager wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:52 pm
shadowgigan wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:44 pm I love how none of the characters are at all concerned about radiation when Baby Godzilla is born.
It's a Heisei movie. None of these things are consistent or present.
I mean, I'd want to touch the baby dinosaur as well. So, I guess I can't really blame them.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by LegendZilla »

Voyager wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:52 pm
shadowgigan wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:44 pm I love how none of the characters are at all concerned about radiation when Baby Godzilla is born.
It's a Heisei movie. None of these things are consistent or present.
You could say the same for the Showa.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by godjacob »

LegendZilla wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:38 pm
Voyager wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:52 pm
shadowgigan wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:44 pm I love how none of the characters are at all concerned about radiation when Baby Godzilla is born.
It's a Heisei movie. None of these things are consistent or present.
You could say the same for the Showa.
Yeah radiation poisoning is just something Godzilla films in general don't mention.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

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godjacob wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:40 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:38 pm
Voyager wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:52 pm

It's a Heisei movie. None of these things are consistent or present.
You could say the same for the Showa.
Yeah radiation poisoning is just something Godzilla films in general don't mention.
If the Heisei films in general were made back in the Showa era, people might be more forgiving of their faults.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by Voyager »

LegendZilla wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:38 pm
Voyager wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:52 pm
shadowgigan wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:44 pm I love how none of the characters are at all concerned about radiation when Baby Godzilla is born.
It's a Heisei movie. None of these things are consistent or present.
You could say the same for the Showa.
Showa never presents itself as consistent. Heisei tries to.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by LegendZilla »

Voyager wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:53 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:38 pm
Voyager wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:52 pm

It's a Heisei movie. None of these things are consistent or present.
You could say the same for the Showa.
Showa never presents itself as consistent. Heisei tries to.
I personally don’t care. If the Heisei tried to and succeeded, more people will be warmer to the idea of a multi-film continuity with Godzilla.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by shadowgigan »

Voyager wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:53 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:38 pm
Voyager wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:52 pm

It's a Heisei movie. None of these things are consistent or present.
You could say the same for the Showa.
Showa never presents itself as consistent. Heisei tries to.
This one is kind of bad IMO because they were just discussing radiation on the island. Apparently the whole thing was a hotbed of radiation!

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