Talkback Thread #19: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992)

[GigaBowserG]

Someone recreated the scene where Mothra and Battra carry Godzilla out to sea using 3D animation. It's quite wonderful.

https://twitter.com/alicetoda/status/15 ... 4225161221

[JAGzilla]

Godzilla vs. Mothra currently stands as the Godzilla movie I've gone the longest without seeing. I caught the final battle on TV in 2011 or '12, and it had probably been years at that point since I'd seen the whole thing straight through. It's possible I've only seen the whole thing once, in fact, on my first viewing somewhere in the mid-2000s; couldn't tell you for sure, though. I was not much interested in anything but the action back then, and far more cynical and unforgiving toward Heisei quality, so for all intents and purposes I've never properly watched this movie.

It's also kind of becoming my white whale. It's escaped me three times, now. It was on Hulu at one point, a few years back, and I figured I'd give it a rewatch... only to find it had been taken down since I'd last checked. Last year I decided to buy the Blu-ray after dragging my feet about it because I don't like two-packs if I can avoid them... but it had already sold out. Just now I went to rent it from Amazon Video... where it's no longer available. It's starting to build up some of that 'mythic' sort of status in my mind, as my memories fade and it stays out of reach.

Obviously there are always alternative means of acquiring movies, and apparently it's streaming on something called Vudu, and chances are I could dig up a reasonably priced Blu-ray on eBay or somewhere... but no. Clearly this is fate. I'm meant to wait for the next physical release when it comes. And it will, of course; it's a Heisei movie with Godzilla and Mothra, so it won't be unavailable for long. Hopefully.

[Mac Daddy MM]

Just finished watching this and made the realization in it: Godzilla did nothing wrong.

The movie treats him like the bad guy most of the time, but he really doesn't do much to warrant it given he's thrown in the war between Mothra and Battra. His arrival at sea heralds the birth of Mothra, and then Battra just randomly pops up and immediately attacks him. The humans are too worried about Godzilla, when Battra poses the true threat of actually attacking mankind. Godzilla's just doing his thing and walking around, Battra actually targets and provokes. Following the volcano, Godzilla emerges from Fuji and... just wants to go out to sea? If the humans and Mothra (and Battra) would have just let him go, they'd prolly save trillions of yen of damage. When he's so close to the coast, it's Battra who makes the first move and attacks. He then gets his ass handed to him.

And then Mothra, for some reason, decides to help Battra and fight Godzilla together. And their answer is... Take him out to sea. The very place he was heading.

Battra died for nothing. Godzilla did nothing wrong and was caught in the middle of their little feud.

[Legion1979]

This movie is 100% proof that Godzilla is always going to have.to evolve past "big mountain that smashes things". Because if that's all you're going to do with him you're going to run out of steam very fast.

[eabaker]

Really, the root of the issues you're both identifying in this movie is that Godzilla was tacked onto a narrative that really didn't need him.

[darthzilla99]

I feel Godzilla could have worked if they focused on him being the main antagonist to Battra and Mothra's story and character arc. Like maybe have a plot where Battra goes on the offensive preventing humanity from doing something to the environment. Mothra tries to be the middle monster begging humanity to stop it's activities while fighting Battra at first. Humanity ignores Mothra and the activity has the consequence of attracting Godzilla, who then runs wild. Eventually Mothra and Battra reconcile to stop Godzilla. Just handled better.

[godjacob]

I do like Godzilla's role as sort of a chaotic wildcard between Mothra & Battra, he does work as a common enemy to team up against but I do agree his use could've been handled better so it didn't feel too much like an afterthought.

[Legion1979]

The issue with this movie is that it's just so uncreative. They wanted to remake the 1961 Mothra. Okay. But they also wanted to remake Mothra vs Godzilla. Getting shaky, but fine. But they also wanted a new monster in there. There's no creativity in this film. When you watch the two Mothra films it's stealing every idea from, you realize just how better those older films were.

[Rody]

The last time I watched this film (which probably been a few years now), I came away borderline hating it - largely for the reason Legion mentioned in the prior post. Since it had been a while, though, and the film turns 30 this year (yikes), I decided I was due to give it another chance. I think I'm going to end up reiterating things already said in the last 10 pages of this thread, but here goes...

The first thing I want to address is the special effects work, which is probably what aggravated me the most on my last viewing. It continues to baffle me how much more artificial this version of Mothra appears compared to the 1960s (and the later 2000s versions to boot). Now, in her defense, Mothra usually looks good in closeup - shots of her bulldozing through buildings look very good, and the animatronics for the imago's head are fine - but anytime there's a wide shot of her she starts looking fake. Her larval form just rolls through the city like a parade float, and her imago form often looks like it's dangling from the wires more than it's actually flying and flapping. Her transformation scene is lovely, but when she goes into action she's very awkward. Again, both Mothra and Mothra vs Godzilla worked this out over 20 years earlier, so what's the excuse?
Battra fares a little better than Mothra, but mostly just because his screen time is a little more selective, and the larval form is framed in a better way to disguise the suit mechanics. His imago form is just as rigid as Mothra's - possibly more so, due to having those big thorny legs that just hang there doing nothing very noticeably.
Godzilla gets some decent physicality in this film, compared to the other 90s movies; I think the 89 look is still my favorite of the Kawakita suits, but I'm warming up to this one as well. However, it's still a bulky design that ultimately looks like it's having trouble moving around. The volcano sequence looks nice, though.

Of course, a Godzilla film is more than just an effects reel; but the movie struggles there too. While repurposing ideas from prior films isn't inherently wrong, none of the ideas here work as well as they did in Mothra or Mothra vs Godzilla. The Moritomo company isn't given enough attention to really feel villainous, our protagonists don't really have much chemistry one way or the other, and Godzilla and Battra feel like they're vying for the same antagonist-monster position. Perhaps worst of all, the environmentalist themes are both undercooked and self-defeating. Most of the major plot beats involving the planet revolve around the tectonic fault line, which has NOTHING to do with human interference, despite a weak one-line comment early on trying to indicate otherwise. I'd be willing to forgive the meteor "detonator" plot device if it linked directly to human-caused events, but the Moritomo company's presence at Infant Island and Mt. Fuji almost feels like a coincidence in the long run. The movie talks up its ideals, but fails to back them up in almost every way.

In the end, I don't hate this film anymore, but it's still mediocre at best and a clear step down from its predecessors. There was a time when I might have considered this a near-favorite, but that time is long past. More than anything this movie just makes me want to watch Mothra and Mothra vs Godzilla again - or GMK and Tokyo SOS, just for the sake of Mothra's better effects work in those films.
Also, Battra really deserves another, better chance in a film.

[Legion1979]

This film is the ultimate example of a Heisei film that tries to cram in a "when will human learn?" message because that's what they did (and usually did well) in the Showa series. But these films are too surface level to really do that properly, so you get nonsense like this movie, where humans are blaming themselves for the monster shenanigans when they have nothing to do with any of it...

...aside from Mothra attacking Tokyo because the Cosmos were kidnapped, which just rips off the plot of the original Mothra just because they clearly had boxes they needed to check.

[Mac Daddy MM]

This film is the ultimate example of a Heisei film that tries to cram in a "when will human learn?" message because that's what they did (and usually did well) in the Showa series. But these films are too surface level to really do that properly, so you get nonsense like this movie, where humans are blaming themselves for the monster shenanigans when they have nothing to do with any of it...

...aside from Mothra attacking Tokyo because the Cosmos were kidnapped, which just rips off the plot of the original Mothra just because they clearly had boxes they needed to check.

Yeah, I always thought it was funny the movie tried to stuff an environmentalist message in our face, but the cause for Battra and Godzilla returning was a meteorite. And even the uncovering of Mothra's egg, on an island owned and being resourced by the company, is due to a hurricane brought on by the meteor. If the meteor never hit, the movie would never even happen. So much for that environmentalism.

[Legion1979]

And it wouldn't even be so bad if the characters weren't constantly going on and on shoving the environmental "message" down the audience's throat.

[Rody]

I wouldn't mind the meteor as catalyst if its repercussions were more clearly connected to human activity, but everything that follows feels completely out of humanity's hands. How exactly is the Moritomo company responsible for a volcano and a tectonic shift?? It's very poorly thought out.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Given Japan's small country size, and significance in intertwining culture with nature, I think that the film has a few moments of presenting interesting and relevant insights into enviornmental issues in Japan in the 90's. Conservation of Japanese forests, in a once rapidly developing country, was a big deal. It's not only reflected in this film, but the Ultra Q movie, Princess Monoke, and even Rebirth of Mothra.

However, I agree; somehow linking that to a meteor, one of the few "natural" disasters completely isolated from mankind, is completely out of left field and a poor connection.

[JAGzilla]

However, I agree; somehow linking that to a meteor, one of the few "natural" disasters completely isolated from mankind, is completely out of left field and a poor connection.

Agreed with the overall point, but the use of quotation marks intrigues me. Is there something unnatural about a meteor impact? Heck, it's probably the most natural disaster there is. No fancy nuclear fusion or atmospheric gases or life needed, just gravity and a rock.

[Rody]

It's natural, but it can feel almost unnatural with how otherwise disconnected it is with our own particular planet.

And again, what does humanity have to do with a volcanic fault line, either? The first RoM film did a much better job at leading the human construction work into starting a kaiju-sized disaster.

[StardustGenius]

It's natural, but it can feel almost unnatural with how otherwise disconnected it is with our own particular planet.

And again, what does humanity have to do with a volcanic fault line, either? The first RoM film did a much better job at leading the human construction work into starting a kaiju-sized disaster.

I suppose fracking, but that's not in this movie.

[edgaguirus]

Fracking can cause quakes, but the film mainly focused on deforestation. ROM did a much better job of linking man's destruction of nature to the kaiju than this one.

This movie would have been better at emphasizing the exploitation of nature. While our characters insist taking the egg to Japan is for its safety, we know the real reason is using the egg for profit. The Cosmos are then kidnapped twice, each for the purpose of profit. I'm not sure how to work deforestation into that theme, but a way could be found.

[Voyager]

Whenever I think Heisei, this is the last one comes to mind. This has to be one of the most forgettable Godzilla movies. Without a shred of doubt. Nothing interesting really happens.

[ShinGojira14]

This movie and Godzilla: King of the Monsters both have the same thing in common:

They're both terrible movies that try and fail spectacularly at an environmental message, have really cool monsters and special effects, good music, lame human characters that could've been something good had they been handled by better writers, and have absolutely no idea what they want to be.

The only thing GvM has over KoTM is that when the monster fights happen, they actually damn show it—even if it is mostly just Koichi Kawakita's beam spamming.