Talkback Thread #5: Ghidorah, the Three Headed Monster(1964)

[Gojira-Fan]

So do you guys still like the dub for this movie? I'm pretty partial to viewing Godzilla movies in the original Japanese with subtitles these days. But GTTHM has what I think is one of the most enjoyable dubs in the entire series.

I haven't watched the dub in years so I can't say if I like it right now. It was the way I originally watched it, but I almost always default to the Japanese language option.

[HeiseiGodzilla117]

So do you guys still like the dub for this movie? I'm pretty partial to viewing Godzilla movies in the original Japanese with subtitles these days. But GTTHM has what I think is one of the most enjoyable dubs in the entire series.

I haven't watched the dub in years so I can't say if I like it right now. It was the way I originally watched it, but I almost always default to the Japanese language option.

Totally understandable. I'm partial to watching in Japanese as well. It could just be nostalgia, but there's something about the dub I find charming.

[miguelnuva]

I think GtthM is a great film to newcomers if you have seen and enjoyed King Kong vs Godzilla and Mothra vs Godzilla beforehand. I think without at least one of those films viewed prior new fans will not enjoy this as much.

This was actually how I first watched this movie. I rented both and watched Mothra vs. Godzilla and then Ghidorah the Three Headed Monster without even meaning to watch them in chronological order. It was nice to see the call back to the earlier film, but I was saddened by the death of the second Mothra larva and wanted to know how she died exactly.

Godzilla beat the holly hell out of one of the larva in Mothra vs Godzilla.

[mikelcho]

I think GtthM is a great film to newcomers if you have seen and enjoyed King Kong vs Godzilla and Mothra vs Godzilla beforehand. I think without at least one of those films viewed prior new fans will not enjoy this as much.

This was actually how I first watched this movie. I rented both and watched Mothra vs. Godzilla and then Ghidorah the Three Headed Monster without even meaning to watch them in chronological order. It was nice to see the call back to the earlier film, but I was saddened by the death of the second Mothra larva and wanted to know how she died exactly.

Godzilla beat the holly hell out of one of the larva in Mothra vs Godzilla.

Or (and this is what I read in an article in G-FAN (I can't remember which one, though) called (I think) "Mothra and Metamorphosis") the caterpillars mated and the male one was eaten by the female one (remember, the insect world is not a romantic one).

[Spydrmanjr]

I think GtthM is a great film to newcomers if you have seen and enjoyed King Kong vs Godzilla and Mothra vs Godzilla beforehand. I think without at least one of those films viewed prior new fans will not enjoy this as much.

I'm curious why you think that.

Mothra vs Godzilla and Ghidorah are a solid duology in my opinion. I think if you dropped a newcomer into the series at Ghidorah, there may be some confusion as to the monsters and relationships, specifically Godzilla's character arc (despite the Mothra intervention prior to the final battle). I think with at least one of the two prior films seen before this, it will enhance a newcomer's experience and appreciation of Ghidorah, as well as the series as a whole.

[KingSkeetorah]

This one is just outside of top five material for me - #6 to be precise. The scientists camping in the mountains and Ghidrah’s reveal are iconic, as is Rodan emerging from the crater. Godzilla’s nighttime cruise ship attack is downright eerie, and has one of my favorite breath animations in the whole series. The human story has always been one of my favorites, and the characters are well acted. Akiko Wakabayashi (who looks like Audrey Hepburn here), Yuriko Hoshi and the Shobijin lend a lot of feminine elegance to this picture.

It all comes down to the final monster battle, though. Ghidrah’s initial rampage is some of the most iconic kaiju footage ever shot. Godzilla vs. Rodan is intentionally hilarious, showing two monster ‘friends’ not really trying to hurt each other but enjoying some roughhouse and shit-talk. Their ‘laughing’ at each other will never not make me laugh. Mothra’s conversation with them is another classic moment. Ghidrah is ultimately sent packing relatively quickly and doesn’t leave the impression of a particularly tough opponent, though to be fair it WAS 3 on 1. I would have greatly preferred to see adult Mothra over larva in the final fight, and more competition from King Ghidrah. I think that would have tipped this entry into my top 5, swapping places with ToMG.

As far as comparing it with Monster Zero, it’s hard to say. I grew up with both and have seen both hundreds of times. I usually rank Monster Zero at 3 or 4, but with last night’s screening of Ghidrah I found myself enjoying this film’s quirkiness, moodiness and slightly darker tone more than Monster Zero’s comparatively tight storytelling and bright production. They are both all-time classics.

Ooh Godzilla, what terrible language!

[Follinollante]

This one is just outside of top five material for me - #6 to be precise. The scientists camping in the mountains and Ghidrah’s reveal are iconic, as is Rodan emerging from the crater. Godzilla’s nighttime cruise ship attack is downright eerie, and has one of my favorite breath animations in the whole series. The human story has always been one of my favorites, and the characters are well acted. Akiko Wakabayashi (who looks like Audrey Hepburn here), Yuriko Hoshi and the Shobijin lend a lot of feminine elegance to this picture.

It all comes down to the final monster battle, though. Ghidrah’s initial rampage is some of the most iconic kaiju footage ever shot. Godzilla vs. Rodan is intentionally hilarious, showing two monster ‘friends’ not really trying to hurt each other but enjoying some roughhouse and shit-talk. Their ‘laughing’ at each other will never not make me laugh. Mothra’s conversation with them is another classic moment. Ghidrah is ultimately sent packing relatively quickly and doesn’t leave the impression of a particularly tough opponent, though to be fair it WAS 3 on 1. I would have greatly preferred to see adult Mothra over larva in the final fight, and more competition from King Ghidrah. I think that would have tipped this entry into my top 5, swapping places with ToMG.

As far as comparing it with Monster Zero, it’s hard to say. I grew up with both and have seen both hundreds of times. I usually rank Monster Zero at 3 or 4, but with last night’s screening of Ghidrah I found myself enjoying this film’s quirkiness, moodiness and slightly darker tone more than Monster Zero’s comparatively tight storytelling and bright production. They are both all-time classics.

Ooh Godzilla, what terrible language!

Damn, I agree with almost all of this from an objective point of view; it's not one of my personal favorites, but all of what you say rings true.

I especially agree that the final fight is a bit underwhelming; barring my little head-canon (in which Mothra's webs are caustic), there is no way that a few webs are going to make the guy that can wipe out cities in mere seconds run away without looking back.

Also, yes, that quote is incredible, and will forever be etched within my soul.

[KingSkeetorah]

I especially agree that the final fight is a bit underwhelming

Not intrinsically or through any fault of what is there, just that it's over so derned fast, 2-3 more minutes of struggle against and it's a top 4 picture.

[Legion1979]

I really have to wonder what version of Ghidrah you guys are watching. That battle has never felt short to me. Sorry it's not a late Heisei film with a half hour bump fest. Lol

[Follinollante]

I really have to wonder what version of Ghidrah you guys are watching. That battle has never felt short to me. Sorry it's not a late Heisei film with a half hour bump fest. Lol

Length isn't really the problem for me; I just think Ghidorah gives up way too easily.

I, however, am an unabashed Heisei zealot. Bite me.

[edgaguirus]

I really have to wonder what version of Ghidrah you guys are watching. That battle has never felt short to me. Sorry it's not a late Heisei film with a half hour bump fest. Lol

Length isn't really the problem for me; I just think Ghidorah gives up way too easily.

I, however, am an unabashed Heisei zealot. Bite me.

Do you taste better with salt of pepper?

On topic, Ghidorah wasn't giving up until the three kaiju started working as a team. I don't know if KG had ever met resistance from other kaiju on other worlds, but KG was doing fine when he was dealing with them one on one. When it became three against one, he decided retreat was better, and I think most people would feel the same way.

[JAGzilla]

I feel like the fight was pretty much over once Ghidorah's heads were stuck together with webbing. He could have kept trying to stagger around blindly and kick Godzilla or something, but he plainly was not in control of the situation anymore. We like to describe him in grander terms, Destroyer of Worlds and that kind of thing, but Showa Ghidorah is essentially just a bully. He's happy to slaughter and torture the weak, but he can't handle victims who can actually fight back.

[Legion1979]

I feel like the fight was pretty much over once Ghidorah's heads were stuck together with webbing. He could have kept trying to stagger around blindly and kick Godzilla or something, but he plainly was not in control of the situation anymore. We like to describe him in grander terms, Destroyer of Worlds and that kind of thing, but Showa Ghidorah is essentially just a bully. He's happy to slaughter and torture the weak, but he can't handle victims who can actually fight back.

Wait what? Godzilla and Rodan can easily fight back. Godzilla held his own against Kong and killed the adult Mothra. Rodan is Godzilla's equal and can take a blast of atomic breath to the face without injury. Yet on their own neither monster was able to get anywhere while fighting Ghidorah, even when they both were on the offensive. And Mothra was completely helpless.

It wasn't until all three of them got their shit together and coordinated their attack that they were able to defeat Ghidorah. And even then, they couldn't kill him.

What's with the weird modern fan narrative that Showa Ghidorah is some weak bully?

[JAGzilla]

I feel like the fight was pretty much over once Ghidorah's heads were stuck together with webbing. He could have kept trying to stagger around blindly and kick Godzilla or something, but he plainly was not in control of the situation anymore. We like to describe him in grander terms, Destroyer of Worlds and that kind of thing, but Showa Ghidorah is essentially just a bully. He's happy to slaughter and torture the weak, but he can't handle victims who can actually fight back.

Wait what? Godzilla and Rodan can easily fight back. Godzilla held his own against Kong and killed the adult Mothra. Rodan is Godzilla's equal and can take a blast of atomic breath to the face without injury. Yet on their own neither monster was able to get anywhere while fighting Ghidorah, even when they both were on the offensive. And Mothra was completely helpless.

It wasn't until all three of them got their shit together and coordinated their attack that they were able to defeat Ghidorah. And even then, they couldn't kill him.

What's with the weird modern fan narrative that Showa Ghidorah is some weak bully?

I can see how my post was unclear, so I'll take the L on this one. I was basically making two different points that got jumbled together. Godzilla and Rodan are plenty capable on their own but it was definitely the teamwork that got the job done, with Mothra's webbing being the finishing touch.

Ghidorah isn't weak by Showa standards, but teamwork is so repeatedly effective against him because he can't just lay into a single target like he seems to prefer doing. He folds and retreats very quickly when faced with a coordinated attack from two or more enemies. So yes, he's basically a bully. And his weapons really aren't effective if he can't concentrate fire on a single target.

By comparison, Godzilla stands his ground and fights effectively when outnumbered by Gigan and Megalon or Titanosaurus and Mechagodzilla II. He'll fight to the death if necessary. And then there's the original Mechagodzilla, who was so honestly powerful he could take on Godzilla and King Seesar simultaneously and beat the piss out of them.

I don't call Ghidorah a bully to belittle or judge him. This isn't a 'fan narrative' or ultimate enemy contest. I love him and his first two movies are top five material for me. I'm just honest about what he does on screen rather than getting caught up in his hype. He can be the Destroyer of Worlds while still being a coward when he's challenged.

[LegendZilla]

It's strange that despite both this film and GRA being rushed into production, the latter gets the most of the flak for being so. Why does GTTHM get a free pass when the signs are arguably just as glaring as in 1955?

[JAGzilla]

It's strange that despite both this film and GRA being rushed into production, the latter gets the most of the flak for being so. Why does GTTHM get a free pass when the signs are arguably just as glaring as in 1955?

GRA feels prototypical, which it was. Toho was still inexperienced at making these big effects driven monster movies and hadn't ironed out their methods and structures yet. GRA feels like it has little in common with the rest of the series, more like an American Kong or dinosaur movie in some respects than what we're used to in a kaiju movie.

By the time GTTHM was made, the Toho tokusatsu team was a well-oiled machine. GTTHM may be a bit rough around the edges, but mostly it fits right in with the other '60s masterpieces visually, structurally, and in terms of scale and grandeur. It's also so big and ambitious, bringing four kaiju together at once, one of whom is the huge and complex King Ghidorah. That's much more appealing to most fans than the simple dinosaur battle of GRA.

[LSD Jellyfish]

It's strange that despite both this film and GRA being rushed into production, the latter gets the most of the flak for being so. Why does GTTHM get a free pass when the signs are arguably just as glaring as in 1955?

Because GTTHM is better.

[AtomicMorningBreath]

Just finished watching this one. I gotta say that the climactic battle is very well choreographed. To use a wrestling term, it has great psychology. Even though I have always liked Astro Monster more, this one does have a better monster fight at the end.

[edgaguirus]

G3HM has a better paced and engaging story, and it's the more entertaining watch. I like GRA, but, as LSD said, it's the better movie.

[miguelnuva]

There is nothing wrong with Ghidorah's special effects other than Godzilla's atomic breath against Rodan.