Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

[JAGzilla]

Why on Earth would Space Godzilla be a reason to think Supernova will bomb?

[darthzilla99]

Why on Earth would Space Godzilla be a reason to think Supernova will bomb?

While I love Space Godzilla, hard to adapt in the MV and comes from a movie not liked in the fandom even though he's got a cult following. Basically very high risk character to use.

[JAGzilla]

Why on Earth would Space Godzilla be a reason to think Supernova will bomb?

While I love Space Godzilla, hard to adapt in the MV and comes from a movie not liked in the fandom even though he's got a cult following. Basically very high risk character to use.

The percentage of fans who will refuse to see this movie because Space Godzilla is in it has to be small to the point of total irrelevance, and the fandom is a minority of the MV's total audience, anyway. Most of the money comes from the GA, and they don't know or care that Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla exists.

And Heisei monsters are very popular in the fandom, SG clearly included. Doesn't matter if the movie sucked, lots of fans are mainly in it for the beams and powerups and general spectacle, and the insanely powerful SG does deliver on that front. He sells toys, too; his design just makes for a cool, eye-catching action figure.

[StreamOfKaijuness]

Given the success of the last two Monsterverse films and the fact the last several MCU films have bombed, the old "MCU movies automatically make more money" argument no longer holds water and when future box office discussion happens, "the MV will die!!!!" doom and gloom viewpoint is not automatically valid just because a MV competes with an MCU film.

What are you talking about? The Marvels is still the only MCU movie that ever bombed at the box office. What made you think there were several?

Here's how much the last three Monsterverse movies and the last three MCU movies sold in theater tickets in North America:

• Godzilla: King of the Monsters - $110,500,138
• Godzilla vs. Kong - $100,916,094
• Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire - $196,350,016

• Deadpool & Wolverine - $636,745,858
• Captain America: Brave New World - $200,500,001
• Thunderbolts* - $188,833,764 (still playing)

GxK's domestic total was right in the same ballpark as Captain America and Thunderbolts. None of those bombed, whereas G:KotM and GvsK both sold a lot less in North American theater tickets, and none of the Monsterverse movies have ever come close to being a mega-hit like Deadpool & Wolverine.

Those last three MCU movies were all released in the time since GxK: The New Empire. Between now and the release of GxK: Supernova, Marvel Studios is planning to release The Fantastic 4: First Steps, Spider-Man: Brand New Day, and Avengers: Doomsday. Are those upcoming MCU movies likely to bomb, or are they more likely to outsell the Monsterverse movies?

[JAGzilla]

Thunderbolts* is pretty well received by both critics and audiences, too. I keep hearing that it's actually competent and tells a good story.

The MCU isn't going anywhere, but the MV doesn't need it to. The Godzilla brand is as strong right now as it's ever been, with a lot of help from Kong. The MV survived the height of MCU hype, it survived COVID, and there's no reason to think it's suddenly going to evaporate because it competes with an MCU movie.

All of which is irrelevant because this fandom is deeply insecure and has PTSD from the Ten Years in the Desert. No amount of argumentation is going to stop people from panicking about the next movie.

[darthzilla99]

Given the success of the last two Monsterverse films and the fact the last several MCU films have bombed, the old "MCU movies automatically make more money" argument no longer holds water and when future box office discussion happens, "the MV will die!!!!" doom and gloom viewpoint is not automatically valid just because a MV competes with an MCU film.

What are you talking about? The Marvels is still the only MCU movie that ever bombed at the box office. What made you think there were several?

Here's how much the last three Monsterverse movies and the last three MCU movies sold in theater tickets in North America:

• Godzilla: King of the Monsters - $110,500,138
• Godzilla vs. Kong - $100,916,094
• Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire - $196,350,016

• Deadpool & Wolverine - $636,745,858
• Captain America: Brave New World - $200,500,001
• Thunderbolts* - $188,833,764 (still playing)

GxK's domestic total was right in the same ballpark as Captain America and Thunderbolts. None of those bombed, whereas G:KotM and GvsK both sold a lot less in North American theater tickets, and none of the Monsterverse movies have ever come close to being a mega-hit like Deadpool & Wolverine.

Those last three MCU movies were all released in the time since GxK: The New Empire. Between now and the release of GxK: Supernova, Marvel Studios is planning to release The Fantastic 4: First Steps, Spider-Man: Brand New Day, and Avengers: Doomsday. Are those upcoming MCU movies likely to bomb, or are they more likely to outsell the Monsterverse movies?

1. Brave New World's break even was $425 according to deadline when it fell short at $415.
2. Thunderbolts break even is $450 and is currently at $380.
3. I forgot Deadpool and Wolverine is an MCU film since I still think of Xmen type movies as fox films.
4. Fantastic Four is up in the air.
5. In my post after the one you're quoting, I made exceptions for high profile MCU characters like Chris Hemsworth and Robert Downey Jr. Deadpool, Spiderman, and Guardians of the galaxy would fall into those categories.
6. Domestic Box office is not the only factor and I never implied I was talking about Domestic only.

[miguelnuva]

Brave New World and Thunderbolts I wouldn't call bombs.

They might not have turned a profit in the theater but especially in Brave New World's case you haven't accounted for merchandise and later digital and physical sales.

The Marvel's in addition to not doing well also wasn't moving merch.

[StreamOfKaijuness]

1. Brave New World's break even was $425 according to deadline when it fell short at $415.
2. Thunderbolts break even is $450 and is currently at $380.
3. I forgot Deadpool and Wolverine is an MCU film since I still think of Xmen type movies as fox films.
4. Fantastic Four is up in the air.
5. In my post after the one you're quoting, I made exceptions for high profile MCU characters like Chris Hemsworth and Robert Downey Jr. Deadpool, Spiderman, and Guardians of the galaxy would fall into those categories.
6. Domestic Box office is not the only factor and I never implied I was talking about Domestic only.

Losing money relative to production cost is not the same as audience rejection (bombing). What's keeping Captain America and Thunderbolts from breaking even in global theatrical revenue is the same thing that's weighed down nearly every other film that Disney has produced in this decade: their exorbitant production budgets. Both of those films cost a net total of $180m to produce, the same as big franchise threequels like Thor: Ragnarok and X-Men: Apocalypse, even though Brave New World was the very first movie to star Sam Wilson as Captain America and Thunderbolts starred a team-up of supporting characters. Spending third-installment money to produce first-installment movies means that they need to perform above and beyond just to break even, and it isn't a sign of audience rejection when they fall short of that inflated financial threshold.

Both Captain America's $200m domestic total and Thunderbolts' $190m+ domestic total are in the same solid but not spectacular hit range as GxK's $196m domestic total. That's a good place to be in terms of how many people in North America are willing to turn out to a theater to see a movie. Being able to turn that kind of audience turnout into profit is up to the studios and whether or not they can make these movies on reasonable budgets. The biggest thing working in GxK's favor in that regard was its net production cost of just $135m. Even if it had flatlined in China, it still would have turned a profit worldwide with that budget.

[darthzilla99]

1. Brave New World's break even was $425 according to deadline when it fell short at $415.
2. Thunderbolts break even is $450 and is currently at $380.
3. I forgot Deadpool and Wolverine is an MCU film since I still think of Xmen type movies as fox films.
4. Fantastic Four is up in the air.
5. In my post after the one you're quoting, I made exceptions for high profile MCU characters like Chris Hemsworth and Robert Downey Jr. Deadpool, Spiderman, and Guardians of the galaxy would fall into those categories.
6. Domestic Box office is not the only factor and I never implied I was talking about Domestic only.

Losing money relative to production cost is not the same as audience rejection (bombing). What's keeping Captain America and Thunderbolts from breaking even in global theatrical revenue is the same thing that's weighed down nearly every other film that Disney has produced in this decade: their exorbitant production budgets. Both of those films cost a net total of $180m to produce, the same as big franchise threequels like Thor: Ragnarok and X-Men: Apocalypse, even though Brave New World was the very first movie to star Sam Wilson as Captain America and Thunderbolts starred a team-up of supporting characters. Spending third-installment money to produce first-installment movies means that they need to perform above and beyond just to break even, and it isn't a sign of audience rejection when they fall short of that inflated financial threshold.

Both Captain America's $200m domestic total and Thunderbolts' $190m+ domestic total are in the same solid but not spectacular hit range as GxK's $196m domestic total. That's a good place to be in terms of how many people in North America are willing to turn out to a theater to see a movie. Being able to turn that kind of audience turnout into profit is up to the studios and whether or not they can make these movies on reasonable budgets. The biggest thing working in GxK's favor in that regard was its net production cost of just $135m. Even if it had flatlined in China, it still would have turned a profit worldwide with that budget.

Is there anything official that states the definition of box office bombing is audience rejection? Because most online discussion uses box office bomb and flop interchangeably as meaning not breaking even or not a hit. Movies like the Rocketeer, James Gunn The Sucide Squad and Blade runner were considered bombs/failures even though they had good audience and critical reviews.

[StreamOfKaijuness]

^ Never mind online consensus or critical reviews. What do you think is more important? A lot of people going to see a movie in a theater, or a Hollywood studio making a profit? Which one is indicative of audience demand?

GxK sold $196m worth of theater tickets in North America toward a total of $571m worldwide. That made it the 11th-biggest draw of 2024 in North America and the 8th-biggest draw of 2024 in total worldwide. That $571m haul was very profitable because it was more than four times its $135m production budget but what if GxK had sold exactly as many tickets with an out-of-control production budget of $400m? It would have fallen way short of breaking even if it had cost that much, and it would have been labeled a flop or even a bomb in that scenario, even with its total moviegoer turnout being no less than it actually was in 2024.

My point is that there's a difference between a movie losing money in theaters relative to its production cost and a movie being straight-up rejected by most audiences. You seemed to be under the impression that there's been a recent streak of Marvel Studios films that have drawn significantly fewer moviegoers than the last couple Monsterverse flicks. The truth is that this year's Captain America: Brave New World and Thunderbolts* have both performed squarely in the same ballpark as last year's GxK in their home territory of North America, which is significantly better than how G:KotM and GvsK performed. The only MCU film that has ever drawn fewer North American moviegoers to theaters than G:KotM or GvsK is still The Marvels, whereas no Monsterverse entry has ever come close to turning out moviegoers on the scale of a genuine mega-blockbuster like last year's Deadpool & Wolverine.

[miguelnuva]

^ Never mind online consensus or critical reviews. What do you think is more important? A lot of people going to see a movie in a theater, or a Hollywood studio making a profit? Which one is indicative of audience demand?

GxK sold $196m worth of theater tickets in North America toward a total of $571m worldwide. That made it the 11th-biggest draw of 2024 in North America and the 8th-biggest draw of 2024 in total worldwide. That $571m haul was very profitable because it was more than four times its $135m production budget but what if GxK had sold exactly as many tickets with an out-of-control production budget of $400m? It would have fallen way short of breaking even if it had cost that much, and it would have been labeled a flop or even a bomb in that scenario, even with its total moviegoer turnout being no less than it actually was in 2024.

My point is that there's a difference between a movie losing money in theaters relative to its production cost and a movie being straight-up rejected by most audiences. You seemed to be under the impression that there's been a recent streak of Marvel Studios films that have drawn significantly fewer moviegoers than the last couple Monsterverse flicks. The truth is that this year's Captain America: Brave New World and Thunderbolts* have both performed squarely in the same ballpark as last year's GxK in their home territory of North America, which is significantly better than how G:KotM and GvsK performed. The only MCU film that has ever drawn fewer North American moviegoers to theaters than G:KotM or GvsK is still The Marvels, whereas no Monsterverse entry has ever come close to turning out moviegoers on the scale of a genuine mega-blockbuster like last year's Deadpool & Wolverine.

THe studio making profit is why we got so many Bayformers and why Kathleen Kennedy was not removed after Episode 9. The studio wants a healthy mix of profit and audiance reaction but they will take profit if they could only have one. Disney and the MCU are different becasue a higher audiance reaction for them is good beacuse they always have more movies coming.

A series like the MV would need profit demands more so.

If the number of people was most important Episode 9 lost half the businees that Episode 7 started with and would be a failure yes or no?

[darthzilla99]

^ Never mind online consensus or critical reviews. What do you think is more important? A lot of people going to see a movie in a theater, or a Hollywood studio making a profit? Which one is indicative of audience demand?

GxK sold $196m worth of theater tickets in North America toward a total of $571m worldwide. That made it the 11th-biggest draw of 2024 in North America and the 8th-biggest draw of 2024 in total worldwide. That $571m haul was very profitable because it was more than four times its $135m production budget but what if GxK had sold exactly as many tickets with an out-of-control production budget of $400m? It would have fallen way short of breaking even if it had cost that much, and it would have been labeled a flop or even a bomb in that scenario, even with its total moviegoer turnout being no less than it actually was in 2024.

My point is that there's a difference between a movie losing money in theaters relative to its production cost and a movie being straight-up rejected by most audiences. You seemed to be under the impression that there's been a recent streak of Marvel Studios films that have drawn significantly fewer moviegoers than the last couple Monsterverse flicks. The truth is that this year's Captain America: Brave New World and Thunderbolts* have both performed squarely in the same ballpark as last year's GxK in their home territory of North America, which is significantly better than how G:KotM and GvsK performed. The only MCU film that has ever drawn fewer North American moviegoers to theaters than G:KotM or GvsK is still The Marvels, whereas no Monsterverse entry has ever come close to turning out moviegoers on the scale of a genuine mega-blockbuster like last year's Deadpool & Wolverine.

For a studio, making profit is more evidence of demand by far as "alot of people going to see a movie at the movie theater" is subjective. Plus demand is also subjective. For a 90 million dollar budget sonic the hedgehog, 320 million is alot of demand. For Godzilla KOTM, 370 million is not a lot of demand and interest.

[StreamOfKaijuness]

For a studio, making profit is more evidence of demand by far as "alot of people going to see a movie at the movie theater" is subjective. Plus demand is also subjective. For a 90 million dollar budget sonic the hedgehog, 320 million is alot of demand. For Godzilla KOTM, 370 million is not a lot of demand and interest.

Obviously profit is the most important thing to studios but profit does not reflect audience demand. Box office revenue itself reflects audience demand. Box office revenue is a quantification of people's willingness to go out and watch a movie in a theater. Any profit from revenue is relative to a movie's production budget. Audience demand is not.

The production budget is the deciding factor in whether or not a particular level of audience demand (box office revenue) is profitable.

G:KotM's $387m worldwide total does indeed represent a larger global theatrical audience than Sonic the Hedgehog's $319m total. The difference is that G:KotM's total was not enough to turn a profit on its $170m production budget, whereas Sonic's total was more than enough to turn a profit on its $90m budget. G:KotM had a larger global audience than Sonic but its budget was too big for it to be profitable. If G:KotM had sold the exact same number of theater tickets worldwide but with GxK's net budget of just $135m, then G:KotM would have turned a profit in theaters and it wouldn't be considered a box office flop relative to its budget, but its $387m level of global audience demand still would have been exactly the same. $387m worth of global moviegoers is still $387m worth of global moviegoers no matter how much the movie's budget was.

That's my point. Exorbitant budgets give the false impression that movies are being rejected by audiences, when the real problem is the studios spending too much to produce the movies.

The fact that Captain America: Brave New World and Thunderbolts* haven't broken even in global theatrical revenue means that neither of them merited their huge $180m production budgets, not that audiences didn't turn out for them. The moviegoing public in any country is unaffected by audience trends in other countries, and here in Hollywood's home market of North America, Thunderbolts* ($190m+), GxK: The New Empire ($196m), and CA:BNW ($200m) each managed to drum up about the same level of audience interest in theaters within the past 15 months, as did Kung Fu Panda 4 ($193m) and Bad Boys: Ride or Die ($193m). A domestic total in the $190m-$200m range means that a movie made a solid impact with the North American public, not spectacular but enough that you don't have to look far to find someone who saw it in a theater. That's not bombing.

THe studio making profit is why we got so many Bayformers and why Kathleen Kennedy was not removed after Episode 9. The studio wants a healthy mix of profit and audiance reaction but they will take profit if they could only have one. Disney and the MCU are different becasue a higher audiance reaction for them is good beacuse they always have more movies coming.

A series like the MV would need profit demands more so.

If the number of people was most important Episode 9 lost half the businees that Episode 7 started with and would be a failure yes or no?

I'm not talking about audience reaction. I'm talking about audience interest, getting people to go out to a theater and watch a movie at all. Regardless of how much anyone loved it or hated it, and regardless of how profitable it was relative to its budget, Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker absolutely succeeded in turning out moviegoers to a massive degree that few movies ever do, with $515m in domestic ticket sales toward $1.077b worldwide. It's one of just 22 movies to ever sell more than $500m in North American theater tickets. In no way, shape or form is that a failure just because it didn't match the $936m domestic total or $2.071b worldwide total of The Force Awakens. A $900m+ domestic and $2b+ worldwide total is not the new bar for success for Star Wars movies just because The Force Awakens pulled it off in 2015 as a legacy sequel after a long franchise hiatus.

[edgaguirus]

Regardless of which kaiju is the main/big villain of Supernova, I anticipate it making a large box office. The MV has found a winning formula with Kong and Godzilla, and with spectacular fights. The GA will be seeing the movie for those reasons, as will members of the fandom. I know some members of the fandom don't care for the latest MV offerings, but others will go to the theaters to watch it.

[JAGzilla]

Look, StreamofKaijuness can pull out all the numbers he wants, but the fact of the matter is that the BASED Monsterverse is owning because people are sick of WOKE Marvel. Disney is gonna die any day now.

Seriously, there are a lot of people in this fandom that need to read SoK's posts here. They're very illuminating.

[Spirit Ghidorah 2010]

Disney is failing because they lead the box office this year to date with only $1.1 billion instead of $863 billion.

They're gonna die aaaaaany second now.

[miguelnuva]

Think I said this before but I want the Monsterverse to use a remix Godzilla's theme from Godzilla vs Hedorah, feels like that would go with this version of Godzilla.

[Major sssspielberg!]

Think I said this before but I want the Monsterverse to use a remix Godzilla's theme from Godzilla vs Hedorah, feels like that would go with this version of Godzilla.

I seem to remember the music that plays when he gets up at the very end of 2014 being that theme in a different key or something. I can never remember to listen when watching the movie.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

The Marvel's came out in the wake of the strikes and thus had practically no real promotional push. It was pretty much sent out to die at a moment where the cast was contractually unable to promote it. Which is sad because a lot of people who saw it liked it more than the first one. The RT audience scores are night and day.

[edgaguirus]

Think I said this before but I want the Monsterverse to use a remix Godzilla's theme from Godzilla vs Hedorah, feels like that would go with this version of Godzilla.

I seem to remember the music that plays when he gets up at the very end of 2014 being that theme in a different key or something. I can never remember to listen when watching the movie.

The trumpet parts of the music are similar in sound. If anyone wants to listen, the soundtrack is on YouTube; The particular piece is called Back to the Ocean.