Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)

[JVM]

I might be wrong, but upon my rewatch I’ve interpreted Mafune’s claims and ostracisation being a more direct result of trying to mind control a giant dinosaur.

I'll watch for this next time. ToMG's been on my rewatch list for a bit but I also keep putting it off because it would kill me to burn this one out.

But, also, consider the fact that this controversy happened in the past. If TOMG took place in 1975, then it’s possible that the events portrayed in the film with this film occurred 1950s, when Godzilla didn’t exist. Even if this is post 1954, if we look solely at a Godzilla timeline, then really monsters don’t start appearing Willy-nilly till the 60s. Possible to assume that if even if Godzilla, Angurius, and Rodan existed, people in scientific communities would be very skeptical of Titanosaurus living peacefully under everyone’s noses.

This used to bother me, but now it doesn’t.

I think this also adds, and justifies, Mafune’s bitterness. Monsters do exist, so Mafune was absolutely right. It gets worse if you consider they wind up controlling all the monsters in DAM anyways.

Also, I do like that little scene of Rodan, Ghidorah, and Manda, even if it’s stock footage. Despite the low monster count, it still makes everything feel cohesive.

I personally used to love this interpretation of the film and viewed it as a fun way to loop the Showa series' origins back to it's present circumstances without it feeling too forced or phoned in. I've drifted to wondering if it's more coincidental and I'm just looking at it with some retroactive continuity glasses like a dumb baby fan, but the flashback always makes me reconsider if it might have some text to it; probably, if Honda were alive, and talked to random annoying Americans, I might actually ask him what he thought about this.

[edgaguirus]

The stock footage scene also helps show the contrast between father and daughter. Mafune is ready to unleash his remote control monster on the world that rejected him, but Katsura acts as his conscience.

[miguelnuva]

I think the specific themes of ToMG has keeping Godzilla distant make a lot of sense - while the other '70s films somewhat accepted their setting as a World of Monsters, core to ToMG is that Mafune was ostracized from the scientific community for his 'living dinosaur' claims. Showing scenes of Godzilla, Anguirus, Rodan, Gorosaurus and so forth on Monster Island might damage that idea a lot, and why he might be desperate enough to work with evil alien invaders; nobody's asking for the whole Monster Island shebang, but even showing too much of Godzilla runs that risk, so I think it's better to play him to a minimum for that. The later Rodan/King Ghidorah/Manda bit with Katsura is blink-and-you-miss-it visual so doesn't run the same risk, imo, and really helps Katsura and Titanosaurus' arc by using the monsters to provide a contrasting example.

I might be wrong, but upon my rewatch I’ve interpreted Mafune’s claims and ostracisation being a more direct result of trying to mind control a giant dinosaur.

But, also, consider the fact that this controversy happened in the past. If TOMG took place in 1975, then it’s possible that the events portrayed in the film with this film occurred 1950s, when Godzilla didn’t exist. Even if this is post 1954, if we look solely at a Godzilla timeline, then really monsters don’t start appearing Willy-nilly till the 60s. Possible to assume that if even if Godzilla, Angurius, and Rodan existed, people in scientific communities would be very skeptical of Titanosaurus living peacefully under everyone’s noses.

This used to bother me, but now it doesn’t.

I think this also adds, and justifies, Mafune’s bitterness. Monsters do exist, so Mafune was absolutely right. It gets worse if you consider they wind up controlling all the monsters in DAM anyways.

Also, I do like that little scene of Rodan, Ghidorah, and Manda, even if it’s stock footage. Despite the low monster count, it still makes everything feel cohesive.

TOMG takes place in 1975 and Mafune is kicked out 20 years ago(if its literally 20 and not something like 22).

That places us in 55 where it could be only Godzilla has attacked, maybe GRA has happened.

I only see Mafuje being kicked out a problem if you try to place TOMG after DAM like some people do where monsters and mind control have both happened.

[edgaguirus]

The previous films used the Monster Island/Monsterland location. If you go by those, then people knew about the existence of several monsters at the time of Titanosaurus and MG attacking. However, Mafune would have been thrown out before that time, so other kaiju hanging around the ocean could seem hard to believe. The mind control claim would have been icing on that cake.

[G-Matt]

Happy 50th Anniversary to TOMG!

[king_ghidorah]

Hey!!! Woot!

I love this film.

Growing up my top five was GRA, KKvG,GTTHM, TOMG and 84. I’ll always adore this film. Lots of nostalgia for it.

[LegendZilla]

^Next up is the 30th anniversary of GvD.

[Mechagigan]

Might be my favorite Godzilla flick ever. Happy 50th! Doesn't feel that old at all. Some of the coolest cinematography and even writing in the entire Showa era. Might be the most compelling storyline in any Godzilla movie imo, and the "cheesy" heightened fantasy of it all only adds to that

[edgaguirus]

Happy belated anniversary.

[LegendZilla]

It's already been half a century since an entire era of films ended... On a side note, the Ultraman franchise has been going back and forth between between the classic Showa timeline and new ones since 2006. In that case, why can't the same be done for Godzilla? What's keeping Toho from re-visiting old continuities?

Are they too scared that a new entry in an old timeline will just be too restrictive and bog down the final product? There's also the argument that it will be impossible to replicate the look and feel of the older films due to everyone who worked on them being dead. They were very much the vision of people living in a bygone era. You could work around said issue simply by finding someone creative, passionate and talented enough.

[LSD Jellyfish]

It's already been half a century since an entire era of films ended... On a side note, the Ultraman franchise has been going back and forth between between the classic Showa timeline and new ones since 2006. In that case, why can't the same be done for Godzilla? What's keeping Toho from re-visiting old continuities?

Are they too scared that a new entry in an old timeline will just be too restrictive and bog down the final product? There's also the argument that it will be impossible to replicate the look and feel of the older films due to everyone who worked on them being dead. They were very much the vision of people living in a bygone era. You could work around said issue simply by finding someone creative, passionate and talented enough.

To paraphrase Singular Point: “the answers are in the questions”.

Added in 3 minutes 5 seconds:

Might be my favorite Godzilla flick ever. Happy 50th! Doesn't feel that old at all. Some of the coolest cinematography and even writing in the entire Showa era. Might be the most compelling storyline in any Godzilla movie imo, and the "cheesy" heightened fantasy of it all only adds to that

I’ve said it recently, but I’ll repeat it again; amazing monster fight choreography and cinematography. Low shots of Titanosaurus are really excellent.

[LegendZilla]

It's already been half a century since an entire era of films ended... On a side note, the Ultraman franchise has been going back and forth between between the classic Showa timeline and new ones since 2006. In that case, why can't the same be done for Godzilla? What's keeping Toho from re-visiting old continuities?

Are they too scared that a new entry in an old timeline will just be too restrictive and bog down the final product? There's also the argument that it will be impossible to replicate the look and feel of the older films due to everyone who worked on them being dead. They were very much the vision of people living in a bygone era. You could work around said issue simply by finding someone creative, passionate and talented enough.

To paraphrase Singular Point: “the answers are in the questions”.

I don't intend to Watch SP again any time soon, can you please be more specific?

[LSD Jellyfish]

^You asked a bunch of questions, and proceeded to list off likely reasons why, making the questions answers to themselves.

I know they’re their own thing, but if you want a spiritual successor to the showa era, those G-FES shorts really are it. As is Godzilla Final Wars… keep in mind I’m not talking about quality, but it’s funny people keep mentioning/asking for these kinds of things when we already get them.

[LegendZilla]

^You asked a bunch of questions, and proceeded to list off likely reasons why, making the questions answers to themselves.

I know they’re their own thing, but if you want a spiritual successor to the showa era, those G-FES shorts really are it. As is Godzilla Final Wars… keep in mind I’m not talking about quality, but it’s funny people keep mentioning/asking for these kinds of things when we already get them.

Why can't we get a literal sucessor in addition to spritual successors? Would it really be asking for too much? Is it really not possible to find a way to work around the obstacles I mentioned?

[Mechagigan]

I'm not a huge Ultra fan so I may be off, but I feel like it'd take a ton more dedication and such to truly replicate the Showa Godzilla vibe. Plus, I'm not even sure if a movie like that could realistically be made today. Storytelling is just a lot different. You could certainly pull off the effects scenes to a certain degree (again, those new short films sorta prove it) but I feel like that's only half the battle. I would love to see a Showa followup but it'd be a very (for lack of better term) artsy and intensely specific movie to make, I'd imagine. If anything I think it'd be cool to get a new Showa Godzilla suit in these short films - that'd be satisfying enough.

I do think it comes down to the legacy, though. Showa Godzilla is so highly respected in a sense that I feel like they'd be nervous to even touch that. Ultraman seems a little more "continuous"

[edgaguirus]

The shorts prove it can be done, but I think modern story tellers have their own vision. They want to leave their own mark on the series.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Just to add, Legendzilla’s post about Ultraman “going back and forth” is pretty misleading. It’s true that Mebius is a loose continuation of multiple original ultraman series, but it’s by no means the focus. It’s more dedicated callbacks. Some of the most “direct follow-ups to original shows episodes” mainly have the key distinction of filling in actual things that were left unresolved. For example, the school from Ultraman 80 and something from Nexus. On top of that, many of these episodes were made in a time where original writers and creators can be involved. That’s an ideal situation.

The other ultra man shows that do this, the more modern ones, are a poor example of this. Ultraman Trigger had bad callbacks to previous shows and seems to have been panned by a lot of older ultra man shows.

There’s no unresolved plot points of missed opportunities from the Showa era, or most of the Godzilla series.

[Legion1979]

Showa Godzilla is more than just the continuity. It's a vibe, it's a feeling, it's an aesthetic. It's something no one is going to be able to recapture 50+ years later. Just making new media in the Showa continuity is just hollow. There's no reason for it. Let that era stand on its own instead of trying to replicate it or add to it.

It's my favorite era and it's really the only I one I choose to watch anymore. But I don't need more of it, because it won't be even close to the same thing.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

I agree, I'm a bit baffled why anyone would want new content in the Showa continuity all these years later. If such films came to pass, they would inevitably feel like soulless, uncanny nostalgia-milkers. Also worth reiterating that the Showa films never had much of a continuity - which is one of the things I like about them. The three Godzilla series that rely on close continuity (I'm counting the anime trilogy) have been my least favorites.

[miguelnuva]

I agree, I'm a bit baffled why anyone would want new content in the Showa continuity all these years later. If such films came to pass, they would inevitably feel like soulless, uncanny nostalgia-milkers. Also worth reiterating that the Showa films never had much of a continuity - which is one of the things I like about them. The three Godzilla series that rely on close continuity (I'm counting the anime trilogy) have been my least favorites.

Godzilla and the kaiju had continuity, the humans not so much.