Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

[Kaijucifer]

Kaijucifer

I now see why you like Heisei Godzilla so much. A lot of what you just posted is your own interpretation of events and doesn't align with the movies.

The Futurians state that needed Godzilla gone so he wouldn't fight Ghidorah and they state Godzilla who didn't attack Japan in the future would do so now.

Proven by how he stays there when dropped into the ocean by MKG. He still has mercy.

Godzilla defeated King Ghidorah, destroyed the UFO, then rampaged through Japan, where he faced Shindo. From your comment about how Godzilla "smiled" upon seeing MechaGodzilla, to this, I wonder if you have even watched either of these movies or are making things up based on third-party interpretations. Aside from the obvious fact that Godzilla reacted in an incredibly territorial manner upon seeing MechaGodzilla -- asserting a confrontational stance, flailing his arms in aggression, and roaring --, there's the more egregious interpretation, from your part, that Godzilla was in any capability showing mercy by staying in the ocean. He wasn't. If you do this wonderful thing called watching the movie, you will take notice of the fact that Godzilla, after his heated battle with Mecha-King Ghidorah, lied unconscious underneath the remainings of his enemy. His eyes then flare up with energy, and he awakens with a roar, followed by an atomic breath. Now, enlighten me: how does any of this factor into "mercy"?

Yeah I have seen the movies, own them all on bluray and have them part of my regular rotation.
Flailing his arms is what Satsuma-san does as part of his style in the portrayal. He moves aggressively and flails his arms a lot.

If you do this wonderful thing called thinking deeper than what you see on the surface, you will take notice that Godzilla isnt just a territorial animal and despite being able to keep fighting, chooses not to continue his battles. He decided against returning to the city in 91, despite his righteous fury. He decided against attacking Mothra after being dropped into the ocean with Battra's corpse.

Have you ever been pissed off beyond all reason but for one reason or another refrained from taking action? Or ever been in a fight, but instead of beating the other guy to a pulp, allowed yourself to calm down and ease tension? Yeah it was kinda like that. Speakin from experience there. Better to, quite literally, vent that frustration somewhere safer. Now enlighten me, how does any of that not factor into mercy?

Added in 7 minutes 20 seconds:

Never mind the fact that Godzilla vs King Ghidorah (1991) and Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla (1993) have different writers and directors… or the fact that technically, the Godzilla shown in 1991 is a different creature than the one that fights Biollante, so thinking about their emotions are sort of irrelevant.

While human characters can be wrong in these films, they’re also generally really inserts to tell us how to feel in the moment of the movie.

Common misconception. The only thing that changed was he got bigger and stronger from eating the nuke. The ASSUME he was simply made again. Problem is: he was already Godzilla by the time they sent the sub after him to make him. That, fixed him up and made him recover from the ANEB and grow 20 more meters and get strong enough to develop his new Spiral Breath mid fight.

[Legion1979]

If you do this wonderful thing called thinking deeper than what you see on the surface, you will take notice that Godzilla isnt just a territorial animal and despite being able to keep fighting, chooses not to continue his battles. He decided against returning to the city in 91, despite his righteous fury. He decided against attacking Mothra after being dropped into the ocean with Battra's corpse.

........what!?!?!?

How would Godzilla have even gone after Mothra? The Cosmos symbol she created was meant to seal him down there for a while. And after that Mothra picked up the Cosmos and flew into space anyway.

There's also no telling how far Mechaghidorah was able to take Godzilla before they both fell into the ocean. I have no doubt by the time Godzilla got up and was able to free himself from Mechaghidorah's cables his instincts kicked in and he just swam away.

This whole nonsense about Godzilla "choosing" to stop fighting is just that. Nonsense. Circumstances prevented Godzilla from continuing these battles, not some decision on his part. For someone who just claimed to watch these movies as often as you do, you sure don't understand them.

[miguelnuva]

P
Added in 7 minutes 20 seconds: Common misconception. The only thing that changed was he got bigger and stronger from eating the nuke. The ASSUME he was simply made again. Problem is: he was already Godzilla by the time they sent the sub after him to make him. That, fixed him up and made him recover from the ANEB and grow 20 more meters and get strong enough to develop his new Spiral Breath mid fight.

Timeline 1: Godzilla after Biollante is sleep in the Sea of Japan for 1000 days. This Godzilla never recovers from the ANEB and Japan grows into a super power. The Futurians steal and time machine and travel to 1992. Once there they make up a stroy about Godzilla and travel to 1944 and remove Godzilla from history.

Timeline 2: When something is altered in 1944 it doesn't take effect until 1992. Ghidorah appears in 1992 when Emi and M-11 return. Godzilla disappears from the sea of Japan. The 2nd Godzilla appears in the bearing sea which the dinosaur was buried and starts heading toward Japan. Mikki senses this Godzilla and no one knows he is born. Shindo's sub crashes into this new Godzilla and grows him to 100 meters. The 2nd Heisei Godzilla defeats King Ghidorah and destroys Japan as stated in 2204.

Timeline 3: Emi returns to the past with MKG and defeats Godzilla saving Japan. The rest of the Heisei series plays out here and Japan gains access to future tech.

A member named Teresawa posted this here more or less as the movie has both Godzilla and Ghidorah just pop back into 1992 despite Ghidorah being created in 1945 and Godzilla in the 70's. Godzilla 1 was in the same place sleeping for 1000 days with the ANEB and people remember him despite Godzilla 1 disappearing and then Godzilla 2 popping up 1000s of miles away.

Godzilla would have have to have woken up traveled 1000s of miles away from Japan very quickly and then turned around and headed back to japan very quickly while low on nuclear power if its the same Godzilla.

Its the same dinosaur being born two different ways.

[Kaijucifer]

If you do this wonderful thing called thinking deeper than what you see on the surface, you will take notice that Godzilla isnt just a territorial animal and despite being able to keep fighting, chooses not to continue his battles. He decided against returning to the city in 91, despite his righteous fury. He decided against attacking Mothra after being dropped into the ocean with Battra's corpse.

........what!?!?!?

How would Godzilla have even gone after Mothra? The Cosmos symbol she created was meant to seal him down there for a while. And after that Mothra picked up the Cosmos and flew into space anyway.

There's also no telling how far Mechaghidorah was able to take Godzilla before they both fell into the ocean. I have no doubt by the time Godzilla got up and was able to free himself from Mechaghidorah's cables his instincts kicked in and he just swam away.

This whole nonsense about Godzilla "choosing" to stop fighting is just that. Nonsense. Circumstances prevented Godzilla from continuing these battles, not some decision on his part. For someone who just claimed to watch these movies as often as you do, you sure don't understand them.

>Atomic Breath is a thing, Legion now finds out

Or did you forget how he blasted SpaceGodzilla crystals going faster than light from the other side of the universe the moment they entered the atmosphere? You forget how Godzilla is portrayed as an unfathomably powerful god in the heisei era. His battle with Ghidorah parted the very ground they tread like Moses and the Red Sea. He broke the Earth's mantle itself when he fought Battra larva underwater. He melted DIAMOND with his mere presence, and overcame SpaceGodzilla and Destoroyah by just willing himself to be stronger than them. And uh, he killed a DIVINE MOTH. The name aint for show. Battra, and now by extension Mothra, set out to eradicate an oncoming asteroid which would destroy Earth. Godzilla killed Battra who is capable of blowing up said asteroid. Stop dumbing down these characters as mere animals. Youre doing them a disservice.

On the contrary, I understand them so well because I take the time out of my day to bother with thinking about them. And I am not alone in this. I have a group of others who feel the exact same way I do about them, we are mightily hyperfixated on these CHARACTERS and compare thoughts and rationalize them to reach these conclusions. Youre more than welcome to discuss with them if you are unwilling to give me the benefit of the doubt.

Added in 22 seconds:

Timeline 1: Godzilla after Biollante is sleep in the Sea of Japan for 1000 days. This Godzilla never recovers from the ANEB and Japan grows into a super power. The Futurians steal and time machine and travel to 1992. Once there they make up a stroy about Godzilla and travel to 1944 and remove Godzilla from history.

Timeline 2: When something is altered in 1944 it doesn't take effect until 1992. Ghidorah appears in 1992 when Emi and M-11 return. Godzilla disappears from the sea of Japan. The 2nd Godzilla appears in the bearing sea which the dinosaur was buried and starts heading toward Japan. Mikki senses this Godzilla and no one knows he is born. Shindo's sub crashes into this new Godzilla and grows him to 100 meters. The 2nd Heisei Godzilla defeats King Ghidorah and destroys Japan as stated in 2204.

Timeline 3: Emi returns to the past with MKG and defeats Godzilla saving Japan. The rest of the Heisei series plays out here and Japan gains access to future tech.

A member named Teresawa posted this here more or less as the movie has both Godzilla and Ghidorah just pop back into 1992 despite Ghidorah being created in 1945 and Godzilla in the 70's. Godzilla 1 was in the same place sleeping for 1000 days with the ANEB and people remember him despite Godzilla 1 disappearing and then Godzilla 2 popping up 1000s of miles away.

Godzilla would have have to have woken up traveled 1000s of miles away from Japan very quickly and then turned around and headed back to japan very quickly while low on nuclear power if its the same Godzilla.

Its the same dinosaur being born two different ways.

Thought you said you werent gonna reply to me anymore Miguel.

[miguelnuva]

If you do this wonderful thing called thinking deeper than what you see on the surface, you will take notice that Godzilla isnt just a territorial animal and despite being able to keep fighting, chooses not to continue his battles. He decided against returning to the city in 91, despite his righteous fury. He decided against attacking Mothra after being dropped into the ocean with Battra's corpse.

........what!?!?!?

How would Godzilla have even gone after Mothra? The Cosmos symbol she created was meant to seal him down there for a while. And after that Mothra picked up the Cosmos and flew into space anyway.

There's also no telling how far Mechaghidorah was able to take Godzilla before they both fell into the ocean. I have no doubt by the time Godzilla got up and was able to free himself from Mechaghidorah's cables his instincts kicked in and he just swam away.

This whole nonsense about Godzilla "choosing" to stop fighting is just that. Nonsense. Circumstances prevented Godzilla from continuing these battles, not some decision on his part. For someone who just claimed to watch these movies as often as you do, you sure don't understand them.

>Atomic Breath is a thing, Legion now finds out

Or did you forget how he blasted SpaceGodzilla crystals going faster than light from the other side of the universe the moment they entered the atmosphere? You forget how Godzilla is portrayed as an unfathomably powerful god in the heisei era. His battle with Ghidorah parted the very ground they tread like Moses and the Red Sea. He broke the Earth's mantle itself when he fought Battra larva underwater. He melted DIAMOND with his mere presence, and overcame SpaceGodzilla and Destoroyah by just willing himself to be stronger than them. And uh, he killed a DIVINE MOTH. The name aint for show. Battra, and now by extension Mothra, set out to eradicate an oncoming asteroid which would destroy Earth. Godzilla killed Battra who is capable of blowing up said asteroid. Stop dumbing down these characters as mere animals. Youre doing them a disservice.

On the contrary, I understand them so well because I take the time out of my day to bother with thinking about them. And I am not alone in this. I have a group of others who feel the exact same way I do about them, we are mightily hyperfixated on these CHARACTERS and compare thoughts and rationalize them to reach these conclusions. Youre more than welcome to discuss with them if you are unwilling to give me the benefit of the doubt.

Added in 22 seconds:

Thought you said you werent gonna reply to me anymore Miguel.

I said I wasn't going to debate Heisei Godzilla's personality vs MV Godzilla's personalty. I have no problem having a Heisei discussion if you want in the Heisei section. Like I said I love Heisei Godzilla.

[Fearsome Godzilla]

Proven by how he stays there when dropped into the ocean by MKG. He still has mercy.

Godzilla defeated King Ghidorah, destroyed the UFO, then rampaged through Japan, where he faced Shindo. From your comment about how Godzilla "smiled" upon seeing MechaGodzilla, to this, I wonder if you have even watched either of these movies or are making things up based on third-party interpretations. Aside from the obvious fact that Godzilla reacted in an incredibly territorial manner upon seeing MechaGodzilla -- asserting a confrontational stance, flailing his arms in aggression, and roaring --, there's the more egregious interpretation, from your part, that Godzilla was in any capability showing mercy by staying in the ocean. He wasn't. If you do this wonderful thing called watching the movie, you will take notice of the fact that Godzilla, after his heated battle with Mecha-King Ghidorah, lied unconscious underneath the remainings of his enemy. His eyes then flare up with energy, and he awakens with a roar, followed by an atomic breath. Now, enlighten me: how does any of this factor into "mercy"?

Yeah I have seen the movies, own them all on bluray and have them part of my regular rotation.
Flailing his arms is what Satsuma-san does as part of his style in the portrayal. He moves aggressively and flails his arms a lot.

If you do this wonderful thing called thinking deeper than what you see on the surface, you will take notice that Godzilla isnt just a territorial animal and despite being able to keep fighting, chooses not to continue his battles. He decided against returning to the city in 91, despite his righteous fury. He decided against attacking Mothra after being dropped into the ocean with Battra's corpse.

Have you ever been pissed off beyond all reason but for one reason or another refrained from taking action? Or ever been in a fight, but instead of beating the other guy to a pulp, allowed yourself to calm down and ease tension? Yeah it was kinda like that. Speakin from experience there. Better to, quite literally, vent that frustration somewhere safer. Now enlighten me, how does any of that not factor into mercy?

Added in 7 minutes 20 seconds:

Never mind the fact that Godzilla vs King Ghidorah (1991) and Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla (1993) have different writers and directors… or the fact that technically, the Godzilla shown in 1991 is a different creature than the one that fights Biollante, so thinking about their emotions are sort of irrelevant.

While human characters can be wrong in these films, they’re also generally really inserts to tell us how to feel in the moment of the movie.

Common misconception. The only thing that changed was he got bigger and stronger from eating the nuke. The ASSUME he was simply made again. Problem is: he was already Godzilla by the time they sent the sub after him to make him. That, fixed him up and made him recover from the ANEB and grow 20 more meters and get strong enough to develop his new Spiral Breath mid fight.

It is unfortunate, then. I thought that we were dealing with a simple case of miscommunication, perhaps ignorance. However, this seems deeper. This is delusion. Yes, Sasuma-san indeed flails his arms, and, as you so properly pointed out, moves aggressively. I wonder why that would be his chosen portrayal? Could you enlighten me on the potential explanation behind this chosen approach? Why would Satsuma-san, a seasoned suit actor responsible for the visible life of Godzilla's character, choose an aggressive portrayal, if Heisei Godzilla is such a lovely sweetheard whose wisdom and compassion both know no bounds?

Furthermore, "thinking deeper" is reserved for things that deserve complex thought. This incarnation, the central topic of our discussion, isn't among such things. Heisei Godzilla is riddled with inconsistent writing, by the justified virtue of having an array of different writers. So, with that in mind, why would I, why would anyone take your personal interpretation, self-alleged "deep thinking" over the clear writing that is in front of us? Your words contradict the movies, the character of Godzilla, and the deep-rooted basis behind what Toho intended the movies to represent. You haven't even been able to respond to all of my points, let alone counter them in effective fashions. With each written word, each second that you spent opposing the majority of people who disagree with your personal interpretation, you prove that, perhaps, it is time for a rewatch of these movies. Keep thinking deeper.

So, with that out of the way, let's address each and every one of your central points on the topic:

"Godzilla isn't just a territorial animal, and, despite being able to keep fighting, chooses not to continue his battles. He decided against returning to the city in '91, despite his righteous fury. He decided against attacking Mothra after being dropped into the ocean with Battra's corpse."

Again, let us take a moment to watch the movies and not sink deeper into this metaphorical sea -- I must specify -- of delusion, lest we entrap ourselves into the Mariana's trench. Godzilla, under no possibility, was capable of "keep fighting" in either of these situations. In '91, he was stuck underneath the remains of Mecha-King Ghidorah and just barely -- after an undetermined period of time, may I add -- revitalized himself from the confrontation. Alternatively, Godzilla is still an animal, he needs rest, and will, as previously stated, attack human cities for the central purposes of food and, at times, revenge. Losing a fight, being on the verge of death, and then moving to another place -- after escalating the fight into unforeseen territories, may I add --, is under no circumstances in the belonging label of "mercy." As for Mothra... are you serious? He got knocked out, barely managed to scrap a victory against Battra, and then got sealed.

Now, you tell me which makes more sense:

A. Godzilla, after getting repeatedly damaged, torn apart, and falling into the ocean -- while unconscious --, was fully capable of progressing with his failed attempt at destruction;

B. Or, and stick with me for this one, Toho repeatedly, up until GvMG2, used the formula of Godzilla attacking a city, fighting a monster, being defeated by humanity's efforts, then falling unconscious or incapacitated in the sea, before making his triumphant return in the sequence.

This is just a simple question, I'll let you choose which makes more sense.

"Have you ever been pissed off beyond all reason but for one reason or another refrained from taking action?"

I have, as have all people, but I don't recall ever taking any of these moments past the point of a rant or vent. The mindless murder of thousands, at least for me, sounds very unethical and needless for such occasions... Right?

"Or been in a fight, but instead of beating the other guy to a pul, allowed yourself to calm down and ease tension?"

And here we go again. Godzilla, up until his last inch of energy, tried to defeat King Ghidorah and the divine moths. He showed no mercy, no hesitation, and most certainly no compassion. If we use the metaphorical "other guy" as Japan, then, regardless of your thoughts on the matter, Godzilla inevitably gets back into the fight, tries his best to beat the other guy to a pulp, and loses again. Quite the wonder, isn't it?

"Now, enlighten me, how does any of this not factor into mercy?"

Now, enlighten me: how DOES any of this factor into mercy?

[Kaijucifer]

Fair enough, Miguel, lol, i didnt respond to you last time out of respect for your wishes.

As for this other thorn in my side with an attitude problem, well, anyone who comes at me like that, for two consecutive replies, with that level of disrespect and condescension laced throughout, is not going to be dignified with a proper response. You are seeking to antagonize me, and I see right through it. Been through many debates where the opposition tried to undermine me through word choices and personal attacks. Very choice words used. "Delusional." How is anyone meant to respond calmly to that accusation? As if what theyre saying is so absurd they must live in a false reality. If not for that, I would have responded in good faith; of which you had none.

[Legion1979]

You know, Kaijucifer, I wasn't the only one questioning your comments. I've had people privately message me to ask what it was you were talking about and if I could make heads or tails of it.

Don't use the tone of my comments to avoid explaining some of the thugs you've said.

[Kaijucifer]

You know, Kaijucifer, I wasn't the only one questioning your comments. I've had people privately message me to ask what it was you were talking about and if I could make heads or tails of it.

Don't use the tone of my comments to avoid explaining some of the thugs you've said.

Not talking about you, talking about the newb in blue over there. I dont have a problem with you.

[HistoricalBrazilian]

This is such a silly movie and I love it for that, it's sort of like a Showa movie but with modern filmmaking tools.

[Jomei]

It is unfortunate, then. I thought that we were dealing with a simple case of miscommunication, perhaps ignorance. However, this seems deeper. This is delusion.

- Toho Kingdom's epigraph

[Mechagigan]

Boy, I sure am excited to see what the lovely folks of TK have to say about the motion picture GxK today -

[GojiDoobyDoo]

Boy, I sure am excited to see what the lovely folks of TK have to say about the motion picture GxK today…

LMAO This made my day

For what it’s worth to correct that, I still very much like this movie. It, GvK, and KSI are in a constant struggle for my favorite Monsterverse movie. Depending on the day, any of them could be in first. GxK does a ton of things I really like, such as having colorful and cool visuals, a fast pace, a lot of monster action, and I’m a very big fan of the 80s Saturday morning cartoon vibes

My detriment with the movie is that I would’ve really liked the 80s/Saturday Morning Cartoon stuff to be pushed further than it was. Have more Skar shenanigans in his lair (like Skeletor, who he reminded me of), really up the synth factor in the soundtrack, have Godzilla and Kong team up earlier on/have more team up interactions, let us see them both with their new features in action more, etc.
Godzilla and Kong rocketing into Hollow Earth and then sprinting together is my favorite scene in the Monsterverse, that I can say confidently. I would’ve liked the movie to be more of that in general.

[king_ghidorah]

Thats a solid top three MV films. I can find no fault with it.

And yeah. While I can kind of feel the MV devolving in a way, I also think that both GvK, and especially GxK are my favorite MV films to watch. So I feel a little conflicted.

[Mechagigan]

It's devolving from one perspective, but I also think it's found it's comfort zone with the Vs. Kong movies. I think G14 and KOTM are fairly bogged down by their dour, mostly serious vibes, specifically in the main human storyline. Just not much fun to watch, and not gripping enough to actually stand on it's own next to the effects scenes (see: Godzilla -1, lol). That being said I agree with the consensus that the monster stuff mightve been a touch better in the first 2 Godzilla flicks. Give me the day-glo 80's visuals and exaggurated monster personalities with the intensity of the early monster scenes, best of both worlds. The Kong duology has totally excelled in making the monsters unique characters, while also keeping the plot approachable (if not maybe too flimsy - but I'll take a flimsy cartoon plot over a flimsy family drama any day)

[DirektorSplennic]

I regularly watch Godzilla X Kong like a drug addict. Whenever I need a bump of dopamine, I inject this stupidass movie directly into my veins. The amount of times I've watched every monster scene is unhealthy.

[GojiDoobyDoo]

^
I can feel you on this

This movie is truly in a bizarre spot for me. I see and understand the many criticisms for it just fine, and I even agree with several of them as corrections for a future installment. At the exact same time though, I kinda just don’t care and love this movie? This is the only Monsterverse movie (besides occasionally Kong: Skull Island), that I can consistently come back to and watch as a complete movie. Not just the monster parts, but everything.

I mentioned last week a nebulous list of GxK, GvK, and KSI as my rotating top three, but after further thought on it, and with what I just said about rewatchability in mind, I do think GxK is solidly my favorite Monsterverse film so far. It works wonders for me in a very specific and very niche way. The 80s Saturday Morning Cartoon nature of the whole thing is what I would say that niche is, I absolutely love those and literally watch them daily. The fast pace, simple plot/characters, bright/colorful visuals, relatively low stakes, and overall cheesiness of GxK all ring true to those shows in a very specific, and again niche way.

The cartoon this morning is Godzilla x Kong, and the episode? The New Empire!



A final note, I often give GxK’s soundtrack credit, and will do so again here. Similar to the movie that it’s connected to, it just works very well for me in specific ways. I really, REALLY like the synth stuff, which Tom/Antonio utilized much more in this movie than GvK. The Godzilla and Kong themes sound much better in this movie than compared to GvK as well. Hard to describe, there just seems to be more depth and instrumentation to them. Godzilla Evolved’s theme sounds so different than his normal one it passes as a new theme, even if it’s technically the same thing.

I also like the overall action like nature of the whole soundtrack. There’s always something to appreciate in orchestral scores, but the more digital style that Tom/Antonio utilizes I feel just suites action and intensity better. Perhaps it’s just that it fits Wingard’s style specifically very well. I have a hard time imagining the score Bear would make for GxK I guess it what I’m saying. You see the melodic orchestral pieces he created for KOTM, and while it worked very well for that, none of it works for a movie like GxK imo.

That’s all I’ll stop typing now

[king_ghidorah]

I listened to an interview with Adam Wingard over the weekend. Apparently GxK had twice the amount of effects shots compared to GvK. Considering the shorter production and post production timelines and also a budget that was largely the same as GvK’s….its pretty amazing that the film turned out as well as it did actually. Especially with effects. Yea, there’s a bit of a downgrade overall but some of the Kong stuff in particular is quite possibly the best of the franchise.

[GojiDoobyDoo]

I listened to an interview with Adam Wingard over the weekend. Apparently GxK had twice the amount of effects shots compared to GvK. Considering the shorter production and post production timelines and also a budget that was largely the same as GvK’s….its pretty amazing that the film turned out as well as it did actually. Especially with effects. Yea, there’s a bit of a downgrade overall but some of the Kong stuff in particular is quite possibly the best of the franchise.

It’s honestly incredible what they were able to get done with the budget they had and the time allotted for the VFX. The vast majority of the movie looks damn good, I applaud the team for that. On a bit of a separate note, I wish Adam had done more behind the scenes stuff for this movie. The Art of Godzilla x Kong is nice, but even then, I can tell a lot is missing from it. It’s strange really.