Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
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- JAGzilla
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
I can't really comment on the details of the final battle. I haven't rewatched GxK yet (I always like to wait a few years between rewatches of any movie to keep it feeling fresh) and I don't remember it very well.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
Despite my praise for the film, the points you all have brought up about Shimo and Godzilla's fight are totally valid. I love the way it is shot and the chaos of the fight, however the only thing Shimo actually does to Godzilla is launch him across the city. I like scenes where Godzilla gets tossed around, it adds weight to the story because we already know how strong he is, so another monster beating his ass is always a bad sign. There definitely should have been more of Shimo using her size to throw everyone else around. She gets Kong pretty good when she drags him by the arm, but then she just blasts Kong with the ice beam for half the fight (that his gauntlet somehow works against?) while Godzilla and Skar dick around.
Like maybe Skar King gets incapacitated or hides behind a building like the little shit he is, and Godzilla and Kong have to try and hold down Shimo, but it's essentially two big dudes trying to hold down a raging bull, so she ends up overpowering both of them. Godzilla definitely should have been knocked on his ass more. Essentially, there wasn't enough "give and take" between Godzilla and Shimo in a choreography sense, it was just smashing two very durable toys into each other with zero consequence.
I do really like her being just a big dog, I'm a softy when it comes to animals, so her having less intelligence compared to other kaiju makes her situation under Skar King all the more tragic and effective.
Godzilla and Skar had a really great single interaction. I like how Kong is in the background struggling with Shimo, so Godzilla has time to give him a "come here you little bastard" move when he catches the whip in his mouth (Awesome!). The supercharge beam chase scene was easily the goofiest scene in the movie (in a "I really enjoy it" way), lord knows how many people got vaporized in those buildings. I do wish Skar got noticeably more injured when he tanked the supercharged atomic breath. Him dropping the crystal after he catches it to dodge another beam was also really funny.
The Kong and Skar choreography was great. I don't think they nearly did enough during the zero gravity fight, so Rio made up for it with those two. I love how different their fighting styles are, with Kong being this big badass bruiser with a brass knuckle arm, and Skar fighting almost like a ballerina. The forward flip ending in a kick that sends Kong right into Shimo is awesome. I love how much of a bastard Skar is with his goofy evil laugh, and him and Kong's interaction after he gets his tooth knocked out is pure gold.
My absolute favorite interaction is Kong looking into Skar King's eyes after he gets frozen. The animation for Kong's facial expressions have been so well done in the entire Monsterverse, but I felt it really shined in this movie. You can just feel the burning hatred he has for the guy responsible for A: Pissing Godzilla off enough to have him hate the entirety of the Great Ape species, and B: enslaving what is probably the last enclave of Great Apes. In universe, Godzilla and Kong would have never had beef if Skar King didn't initiate a full scale war thousands of years ago, so his shattering at the hands of Kong and Shimo I feel is extremely cathartic in the context of the story. I saw Godzilla ordering Shimo as less of a threat and more of a "Freeze his ass! Look what he did to you!" kind of thing. The psycho slaver who is responsible for a species wide grudge match is dead for good, so I'm really excited to see how Godzilla and Kong's relationship evolves (ha). The soundtrack is fine for what it is but the last half of "Frozen Rio" is incredible and makes Skar's death so much more satisfying.
I also completely understand the Rio fight being hard for a lot of people to remember the details of. I remember after the theater watch I barely remembered any of it because it was over so fast. My obsession with this movie has caused me to watch every fight over and over though, so I know the Rio fight verbatim haha.
Sorry for another rambling wall of text. I love this movie and have no other place to gush about it haha.
Like maybe Skar King gets incapacitated or hides behind a building like the little shit he is, and Godzilla and Kong have to try and hold down Shimo, but it's essentially two big dudes trying to hold down a raging bull, so she ends up overpowering both of them. Godzilla definitely should have been knocked on his ass more. Essentially, there wasn't enough "give and take" between Godzilla and Shimo in a choreography sense, it was just smashing two very durable toys into each other with zero consequence.
I do really like her being just a big dog, I'm a softy when it comes to animals, so her having less intelligence compared to other kaiju makes her situation under Skar King all the more tragic and effective.
Godzilla and Skar had a really great single interaction. I like how Kong is in the background struggling with Shimo, so Godzilla has time to give him a "come here you little bastard" move when he catches the whip in his mouth (Awesome!). The supercharge beam chase scene was easily the goofiest scene in the movie (in a "I really enjoy it" way), lord knows how many people got vaporized in those buildings. I do wish Skar got noticeably more injured when he tanked the supercharged atomic breath. Him dropping the crystal after he catches it to dodge another beam was also really funny.
The Kong and Skar choreography was great. I don't think they nearly did enough during the zero gravity fight, so Rio made up for it with those two. I love how different their fighting styles are, with Kong being this big badass bruiser with a brass knuckle arm, and Skar fighting almost like a ballerina. The forward flip ending in a kick that sends Kong right into Shimo is awesome. I love how much of a bastard Skar is with his goofy evil laugh, and him and Kong's interaction after he gets his tooth knocked out is pure gold.
My absolute favorite interaction is Kong looking into Skar King's eyes after he gets frozen. The animation for Kong's facial expressions have been so well done in the entire Monsterverse, but I felt it really shined in this movie. You can just feel the burning hatred he has for the guy responsible for A: Pissing Godzilla off enough to have him hate the entirety of the Great Ape species, and B: enslaving what is probably the last enclave of Great Apes. In universe, Godzilla and Kong would have never had beef if Skar King didn't initiate a full scale war thousands of years ago, so his shattering at the hands of Kong and Shimo I feel is extremely cathartic in the context of the story. I saw Godzilla ordering Shimo as less of a threat and more of a "Freeze his ass! Look what he did to you!" kind of thing. The psycho slaver who is responsible for a species wide grudge match is dead for good, so I'm really excited to see how Godzilla and Kong's relationship evolves (ha). The soundtrack is fine for what it is but the last half of "Frozen Rio" is incredible and makes Skar's death so much more satisfying.
I also completely understand the Rio fight being hard for a lot of people to remember the details of. I remember after the theater watch I barely remembered any of it because it was over so fast. My obsession with this movie has caused me to watch every fight over and over though, so I know the Rio fight verbatim haha.
Sorry for another rambling wall of text. I love this movie and have no other place to gush about it haha.
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- Handsome Shrek
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
I really don't understand how anyone can say this is a better movie than KotM and GvK
Top five favorite Monsterverse titans:
1. Godzilla and King Ghidorah equally
2. Methuselah
3. Mecha-Godzilla
4. Doug
Honorable mentions: Tiamat
1. Godzilla and King Ghidorah equally
2. Methuselah
3. Mecha-Godzilla
4. Doug
Honorable mentions: Tiamat
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
It’s that whole “turn-off-your-brain-and-enjoy”, “just big dumb fun” thing. I don’t get it either, but the masses want what they want, and the dictates the direction of everything for everyone else, for better or worse.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
Because it was fun to a lot of people. I haven't met to many non Godzilla fans that liked kotm.Handsome Shrek wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2025 6:03 pm I really don't understand how anyone can say this is a better movie than KotM and GvK
Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
Kotm is an amazing film, that was made for fans. Absolutely correct to say that it just doesn’t work for most non-fans, but hey, that makes it more special as time goes by.
GxK is a fun, Saturday morning cartoon of a movie. It’s exactly what general audiences want from this franchise. Minus 1 and the Toho stuff can handle the more prestige aspects of the series. In theory, everyone wins.
GKOTM isn’t going anywhere. Appreciate what you have and try to find something enjoyable in what we are getting. If you can’t, then hey, just watch the old stuff.
GxK is a fun, Saturday morning cartoon of a movie. It’s exactly what general audiences want from this franchise. Minus 1 and the Toho stuff can handle the more prestige aspects of the series. In theory, everyone wins.
GKOTM isn’t going anywhere. Appreciate what you have and try to find something enjoyable in what we are getting. If you can’t, then hey, just watch the old stuff.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
To be fair, there were plenty of die-hard fans who had just as many problems with GKOTM as non-fans did, many who also ended up enjoying this movie more. It's really not as black and white as some fans try to make it out to be.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
Totally how I feel ^ plus, it doesn't always have to be a death match for who's the best movie. They've all got their ups and downs, different merits - shouldnt always be this virtriolic argument.
I feel like GKOTM (and G14) has a pretty wonky human/emotional plot, but I'll totally agree the monster stuff kills. Saves the movie, imo. But a good chunk of the main content makes me a little unengaged. On the opposite end, I mostly like the human stuff in the Kong duology, becausw as hollow as it is, it feels like they've dropped the melodrama, and the pretense, and toned down the MCU-but-not humor that kinda stained KOTM. Takes itself less seriously, while also streamlining things, and that choice isn't inherently "slop" I'd say. I think they're playing to their strengths
I guess my thoughts are, G14/KSI/KOTM definitely have their own unique vibe going on, and as much as I also miss the scale and tone of those flicks, as said above, they still exist. Minus One just came out too, so we're definitelt not going into a Goofy Godzilla era off GxK's success. Feel like it's a bit like comparing movies like G'54 or Rodan to Vs Megalon or MechaGodzilla. Obviously one set of movies has a more prestigious thing going on but that doesn't have to make the other end of the spectrum total crap by comparison
I feel like GKOTM (and G14) has a pretty wonky human/emotional plot, but I'll totally agree the monster stuff kills. Saves the movie, imo. But a good chunk of the main content makes me a little unengaged. On the opposite end, I mostly like the human stuff in the Kong duology, becausw as hollow as it is, it feels like they've dropped the melodrama, and the pretense, and toned down the MCU-but-not humor that kinda stained KOTM. Takes itself less seriously, while also streamlining things, and that choice isn't inherently "slop" I'd say. I think they're playing to their strengths
I guess my thoughts are, G14/KSI/KOTM definitely have their own unique vibe going on, and as much as I also miss the scale and tone of those flicks, as said above, they still exist. Minus One just came out too, so we're definitelt not going into a Goofy Godzilla era off GxK's success. Feel like it's a bit like comparing movies like G'54 or Rodan to Vs Megalon or MechaGodzilla. Obviously one set of movies has a more prestigious thing going on but that doesn't have to make the other end of the spectrum total crap by comparison
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
A major reason I realized GKOTM sucked was how often I showed it to other people and their immediate response was negative. That really opened my eyes. The value of an individual opinion on movie doesn't mean much and the consensus was clearly very negative. It wasn't until maybe last year I met anyone else who liked Gkotm on an individual basis. I think I've met all three fans who liked it now who aren't twelve.miguelnuva wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:15 pmBecause it was fun to a lot of people. I haven't met to many non Godzilla fans that liked kotm.Handsome Shrek wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2025 6:03 pm I really don't understand how anyone can say this is a better movie than KotM and GvK
It's tempting to talk about why I initially thought GxK was more fun than GvK but that's a losing battle and I don't hold that opinion anymore so I don't have an interest in being 'held' to defending it, so I'll focus on GKOTM. That's a pretty easy discussion, really. Two of the biggest complaints I hear about GKOTM are the idea it takes itself too seriously, based on the Russell family plot, and the idea it had too much cringe "MCU" humor (typing that makes me cringe) because of the gonnorhea joke. GxK does not really imbue most of its human characters with real story arcs or drama, aside Jia and her relationships, and most of the humor is limited to the Bernie character and not as spread among the cast, and Bernie is kind of pathetic anyway. There is much less human drama and very little empathy demanded and the jokes are limited enough that it just ends up kind of blandly inoffensive, it fills the "it's just a popcorn flick bro don't think about it" box perfectly in this respect. I think the relationship between Kong and Suko acts as the true emotional core of the film and therefore as a replacement for a lot of the kind of human drama GKOTM had, and in doing so transfers our primary emotional investment (or really, the emotional demands of the story) from human characters to the protagonist of the film, Kong.
As a secondary factor, one of the key criticisms of the monster side of GKOTM was the complaint it was a rehash of Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster and that bringing back Mothra, Rodan and King Ghidorah was derivative, and I know a lot of people have said they feel King Ghidorah has become really over-exposed in the current Godzilla era and isn't interesting anymore... so in comparison to this, Skar King, Shimo, Suko, Tiamet and company are all completely new, original Titans with no existing backstory or lore to worry about. The film feels new and fresh by not relying on old Toho characters and tropes that I think most Godzilla fans by now have accepted don't need a re-adaption for new audiences. The inclusion of Mothra is, if anything, the downer for most people in my experience, not an exciting comeback of a character people love, and maybe we'd be singing a different tune if they committed to the Phosphora character. I know a lot of people also hated that GKOTM set so much of the fighting at night and the battles at Egypt and in Rio are in plain daylight.
GKOTM's use of nuclear weapons also attracted a ton of criticism and was seen as tone deaf by a lot of reviewers and in some cases viewed as glorifying nuclear weapons antithetically to the original film, and... none of that's here.
GKOTM and GxK are the two real "monster mash" films in the MV, which may be each films' true shared weakness at the end of the day, but they are pretty distinct approaches, neither of which actually fucking worked in the slightest, but they both took pretty different approaches.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
I like that KoTM takes itself seriously. I wish the characters and the weight of their human scale relationships measured up to the serious drama on the kaiju scale. I think the Russell family dynamic and their motivations needed an overhaul. The "bring balance to the world" through kaiju destruction plot works well for a wacky sci-fi mad scientist story where the details and logic are glossed over to get to plot escalation. But KoTM seemed to want the family tensions to carry weight for us.
Far too little is made of the loss of their son, in short. Thinking about it now, Dougherty even had the right pieces on the board to pull this off. It seems like they were afraid to lean into a film about grief and afraid to commit to Emma's actions coming from an unconscious place of desire to inflict pain because of the pain they'd suffered. Since the first Godzilla film in the series learned so much from Gamera: GoTU, this one should have taken a page from Irys. Part of why that film resonates so much is that it succeeds in taking a dark corner of the human heart and blowing it up to the scale of kaiju. But for that to work, the filmmaker can't be afraid of the darkness lurking there.
KoTM also might be better without Millie Bobby Brown, and not just 'cuz she's not bringing much to the table anyway. Take away this pretext that the conflict is about protecting their daughter somehow. Put the magnifying glass on the open wound of their loss rather than obscure it with the living child.
Far too little is made of the loss of their son, in short. Thinking about it now, Dougherty even had the right pieces on the board to pull this off. It seems like they were afraid to lean into a film about grief and afraid to commit to Emma's actions coming from an unconscious place of desire to inflict pain because of the pain they'd suffered. Since the first Godzilla film in the series learned so much from Gamera: GoTU, this one should have taken a page from Irys. Part of why that film resonates so much is that it succeeds in taking a dark corner of the human heart and blowing it up to the scale of kaiju. But for that to work, the filmmaker can't be afraid of the darkness lurking there.
KoTM also might be better without Millie Bobby Brown, and not just 'cuz she's not bringing much to the table anyway. Take away this pretext that the conflict is about protecting their daughter somehow. Put the magnifying glass on the open wound of their loss rather than obscure it with the living child.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
KOTM had stuff called "stakes" and "weight" to their plots, foreign concepts to Wingard. As wonky as it could be at times, the human story still complemented the monsters and actually drove the story forward. The ORCA, releasing Ghidorah, getting in the way with the OD, reviving Godzilla, helping him out in Boston, they felt relevant to the actual story and the movie actually put a modicum of effort into trying to make it feel important. In GxK, both the human and monster elements felt incredibly half-assed and they didn't even try to make a cohesive plot out of it.
"[GxK] feels like a proof of concept for Legendary to make a film entirely by AI. Monster fights are the one thing it offers and it fucks them mostly too, every other aspect of the film is dogshit and it seems to genuinely mock its audience for watching it."
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
There is weight to the kaiju-tier of the plot, yes. What I'm talking about is the human side. Simply the characters being in danger or doing things that affect the plot is not enough. What I'm saying is their relationships and the connection to the plot felt underdeveloped. Emma Russell's motivation is not particularly compelling as is IMO. The film does not make the audience as invested in them as it could if it wants to work as not just spectacle but also compelling drama.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
A Godzilla movie that takes itself seriously!? The horror!
Even as someone who loves KotM, yeah I do agree that the attempts at humor were pretty lame. But, the same type of humor is conveniently never a problem in Marvel movies. Really shows how the general bias skewsand the idea it had too much cringe "MCU" humor (typing that makes me cringe) because of the gonnorhea joke.
Well, most fans do agree that Ghidorah is the best Monsterverse antagonist, and he's actually a true threat by comparison to Skar King and ShimoAs a secondary factor, one of the key criticisms of the monster side of GKOTM was the complaint it was a rehash of Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster and that bringing back Mothra, Rodan and King Ghidorah was derivative, and I know a lot of people have said they feel King Ghidorah has become really over-exposed in the current Godzilla era and isn't interesting anymore... so in comparison to this, Skar King, Shimo, Suko, Tiamet and company are all completely new, original Titans with no existing backstory or lore to worry about. The film feels new and fresh by not relying on old Toho characters and tropes that I think most Godzilla fans by now have accepted don't need a re-adaption for new audiences. The inclusion of Mothra is, if anything, the downer for most people in my experience, not an exciting comeback of a character people love, and maybe we'd be singing a different tune if they committed to the Phosphora character. I know a lot of people also hated that GKOTM set so much of the fighting at night and the battles at Egypt and in Rio are in plain daylight.
I also prefer night/dark fights in these movies, personally
Gotta disagree with this oneGKOTM and GxK are the two real "monster mash" films in the MV, which may be each films' true shared weakness at the end of the day, but they are pretty distinct approaches, neither of which actually fucking worked in the slightest, but they both took pretty different approaches.
Added in 8 minutes 16 seconds:
New Empire just feels too cheesy all around. It has some pretty cool scenes, but it just simply does not take itself seriously enough. The fight scenes are fun, but there is no weight to them, and the entire climax is basically just an MCU battle. All of the other Monsterverse films have far more weight and groundedness to the titan scenes
Top five favorite Monsterverse titans:
1. Godzilla and King Ghidorah equally
2. Methuselah
3. Mecha-Godzilla
4. Doug
Honorable mentions: Tiamat
1. Godzilla and King Ghidorah equally
2. Methuselah
3. Mecha-Godzilla
4. Doug
Honorable mentions: Tiamat
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
I freakin’ love this movie, had a blast with it when it came out early last year, and I still have a blast with it now. It really just works for me on all levels. I love the monster designs, I love the visuals, the action is fast and has a lot of energy, the story is cool, I actually like the human cast, and, even as unpopular as the opinion seems to be, I love the soundtrack. Everything about it has these 80s vibes, more particularly like a Saturday morning cartoon of that era. I know that was very intentional on Adam Wingard’s part, as stated numerous times by him in various interviews/discussions, and I think he nailed it. Plus, as someone who’s a big fan of Saturday morning cartoons, that was one massive thumbs up for me. (Somewhat related note to that, but no Hanna Barbera Godzilla for profile pics? Looked everywhere and couldn’t find one).
It’s the only Monsterverse film so far where everything clicked perfectly into what I like, and it makes it to where I can say this particular series has officially satisfied me. No matter the direction of the next film, whether I like it or not, I still got this movie, and that’s pretty cool.
It’s the only Monsterverse film so far where everything clicked perfectly into what I like, and it makes it to where I can say this particular series has officially satisfied me. No matter the direction of the next film, whether I like it or not, I still got this movie, and that’s pretty cool.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
It is the perfect Saturday morning cartoon film and I'm glad we got it as well 

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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
I don't think it's been brought up here in the forums yet, but the main site posted a few days ago that GxK was 2024's third best-selling movie on physical media, behind only Deadpool & Wolverine and Dune Part II. 55% of the sales were on Blu-ray. Not too shabby at all.
"Stop wars and no more accidents. I guess that's all I can ask." -Akio
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
Yeah. The GA really ate it up. Fans, pretty split…leaning negative. Critics, negative.
When it comes to critics, I do wonder why they all seemed to love GvK but were so negative about GxK?
When it comes to critics, I do wonder why they all seemed to love GvK but were so negative about GxK?
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
GXK was one of those movies where if I was 7 years old, I'd have loved it and it'd be one of my favorites. Yeah, its kind of dumb, but its also imaginative and exciting, and if you're young, only the positives really stand out.
I remember feeling the same way about Jurassic World. I think there is a place for movies like that and heck, the Godzilla series has a few of them already.
Will GXK ever be near the top of my favorites list for the Godzilla franchise as a whole or even just the MonsterVerse? No, but its still a fun entry that gave us some neat moments. Personally, I enjoyed it more than Monarch: Legacy of Monsters, which was critically acclaimed and well received by the fandom as a whole.
I remember feeling the same way about Jurassic World. I think there is a place for movies like that and heck, the Godzilla series has a few of them already.
Will GXK ever be near the top of my favorites list for the Godzilla franchise as a whole or even just the MonsterVerse? No, but its still a fun entry that gave us some neat moments. Personally, I enjoyed it more than Monarch: Legacy of Monsters, which was critically acclaimed and well received by the fandom as a whole.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
My personal opinion is GvK was a film that set out to do something. GxK was made so Godzilla and Kong would be allies going forward.king_ghidorah wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:33 am Yeah. The GA really ate it up. Fans, pretty split…leaning negative. Critics, negative.
When it comes to critics, I do wonder why they all seemed to love GvK but were so negative about GxK?
GxK did two major things for the MV
Made Kong into King Kong
Gave Godzilla allies.
When the MV is finished and people rewatch it I feel like GxK will be the movie that makes so Godzilla and Kong are allies when future entries start. You could introduce Destroyah in Mv6 for example and we don't need an explanation if Godzilla calls out to Kong or vice versa. Something is in HE and Kong calls for Godzilla.
Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
GVK had a lot more tension, more of a cohesive plot, and just better action. Plus the idea (hollow earth) and premise of Godzilla vs Kong was much more novel at the time.