Talkback: Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)

[king_ghidorah]

And it makes sense that he’s a little more brittle based on the previous film and how he looks kind of stapled together/clunky in TOMG vs shiny and new in 74.

[miguelnuva]

And it makes sense that he’s a little more brittle based on the previous film and how he looks kind of stapled together/clunky in TOMG vs shiny and new in 74.

The black hole aliens probably had less resources and they always need humans to fix Mechagodzilla anyway so that might have something to do with it.

[daveblackeye15]

I like how it matches the tones too. One is fun, campy, exciting and the other is moody, bittersweet, harsh.

[king_ghidorah]

And it makes sense that he’s a little more brittle based on the previous film and how he looks kind of stapled together/clunky in TOMG vs shiny and new in 74.

The black hole aliens probably had less resources and they always need humans to fix Mechagodzilla anyway so that might have something to do with it.

Great point

[Mechagigan]

I like how the Black Hole aliens get more brutal and desperate between the two MG movies. The first go-around they seem very sure of themselves and organized, the second, everything feels much more boxed in and tense.

[edgaguirus]

And it makes sense that he’s a little more brittle based on the previous film and how he looks kind of stapled together/clunky in TOMG vs shiny and new in 74.

The black hole aliens probably had less resources and they always need humans to fix Mechagodzilla anyway so that might have something to do with it.

It could be that their leaders were on board with the MG plan at first, but after Godzilla beat the robot, they were less convinced it would work. They were willing to continue the operation due to the desperate need of a new home but weren't willing to offer as much support. The Black Hole aliens also know that they're on Interpol's radar, and don't want to attract any attention. Both factors would hamper Plan MG.

[Legion1979]

Keep in mind when discussing MG that the aliens were deliberately holding it back in the hopes that Godzilla and Titanosaurus would eventually kill or badly hurt each other so that the robot could be the last one standing.

[miguelnuva]

Keep in mind when discussing MG that the aliens were deliberately holding it back in the hopes that Godzilla and Titanosaurus would eventually kill or badly hurt each other so that the robot could be the last one standing.

That was only in the initial fight though. Remember Mugal tells Mafune "That's ok now we know they'll fight together." My understanding was that Mugal didn't mind Titanosaurs fighting Godzilla and that happening but after he gets Mafune back under control the original plan of jumping Godzilla is the goal.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Probably obvious, but not commented on much; TOMG is the only Godzilla film with two distinctive antagonistic factions, each with their own monster and somewhat competing motivations and goals.

[JVM]

Probably obvious, but not commented on much; TOMG is the only Godzilla film with two distinctive antagonistic factions, each with their own monster and somewhat competing motivations and goals.

I think this is actually a big part of why I like the movie actually. It has three key factions, two of them being antagonists. A lot of the previous films have clear conflict, but this one feels a bit more ambiguous by the tragic and uneasy nature of their alliance. It has some unique 'shades of gray' for a kaiju film in that way.

That and how much it feels like Honda's direction with a more Fukuda era story (in the very broad strokes)

[king_ghidorah]

Honda’s direction of a Fukuda-esque movie is probably why this movie is such a gem of the franchise.

[edgaguirus]

Another topic gave me a small idea, or question. The aliens and Mafune knew Titanosaurus was weak against sonic frequencies, so could they have found a way to protect him from that? I'm sure the aliens had the technology to do so. I suppose they just didn't have the time to put something together as they were eager to get the conquest started.

[miguelnuva]

Another topic gave me a small idea, or question. The aliens and Mafune knew Titanosaurus was weak against sonic frequencies, so could they have found a way to protect him from that? I'm sure the aliens had the technology to do so. I suppose they just didn't have the time to put something together as they were eager to get the conquest started.

The aliens clearly don't care. Had Godzilla went down I'm sure Mechagodzilla would have turned weapons on Titanosaurus at some point.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Finally got around to rewatching this yesterday. Worth the hype, and I maintain all the good things I’ve said over the years, but there are evident problems.

The meme of “Godzilla doesn’t appear much” is too often lobbed at these kinds of films, but people tend to ignore that this is usually done in building up an enemy monster. In that case, yeah TOMG does a fantastic job of building up both Titanosaurus and MG. Godzilla does have a good chunk of screentime, but the greater issue is how jarring and abrupt both of his appearances are. Godzilla appears out of nowhere, twice, and there’s little acknowledgement by the human cast for its existence. It’s something that started with the previous entry, but that was clearly to show the shock of two Godzillas.

I feel like the first time, when Godzilla briefly engages Titanosaurus this abruptness might have also been intentional. Based on the way the opening credits of the Japanese version go, they make it seem as though Godzilla fought MG to a standstill, beating MG but falling into the water weakened.

But when Godzilla appears in Tokyo much later, it’s really jarring. All they needed was one or two scenes of Godzilla maybe traveling when MG and Titanosaurus begin their rampage. It’s not a dealbreaker for me, but Godzilla really is only there for two long scenes.

Despite that, everything else is perfect. I maintain that this film has the best story of any of the 70’s films, maybe minus elements of Godzilla vs Gigan.

I do also really appreciate the film for some of its shortcomings. While not as grand as the finale of DAM, I really love how the film manages to feel almost as big as that film, with a lot of film-making trickery. For example: lots of city exterior shots to make it appear they’re in bigger cities than they are, limited but effective use of all the monsters, a focus on drama.

The final fight, is really fantastic, feeling long enough without overstaying its welcome and not feeling repetitive.

And I’m sure others have echoed this before, but Titanosaurus really is the star of this movie. Film could’ve been called “Godzilla vs Titanosaurus” and it would’ve been fine.

[Mechagigan]

I sort of like Godzilla's limited presence in this one because I think it somehow adds to those finale vibes. By this point in the series, we know Godzilla's game, and so does he, so in a way I feel like they bank on the inevitability of him appearing.

A but unrelated, but I also think the core idea of Godzilla against two distorted versions of himself - a literal robot, and a fellow dinosaur-turned-monster - adds so much to the whole finale thing. You could even extrapolate it as Godzilla, now a hero, sort of righting the wrongs of his animalistic past self by fighting Titano, who is likewise a sort of confused animal wreaking havoc. The fact he's unleashed by Not-Serizawa adds something to that in my brain, but I can't decide exactly what, lul

[LSD Jellyfish]

I sort of like Godzilla's limited presence in this one because I think it somehow adds to those finale vibes. By this point in the series, we know Godzilla's game, and so does he, so in a way I feel like they bank on the inevitability of him appearing.

A but unrelated, but I also think the core idea of Godzilla against two distorted versions of himself - a literal robot, and a fellow dinosaur-turned-monster - adds so much to the whole finale thing. You could even extrapolate it as Godzilla, now a hero, sort of righting the wrongs of his animalistic past self by fighting Titano, who is likewise a sort of confused animal wreaking havoc. The fact he's unleashed by Not-Serizawa adds something to that in my brain, but I can't decide exactly what, lul

It’s been well discussed that it works well as having two Godzilla dopplegangers. Titanosaurus really does match Godzilla’s physical strength, and is the closest direct parallel appearance wise to Godzilla. Hell, the movie begins with Titanosaurus sinking a sub/ship. The “not-Serizawa” furthers that connection.

I agree that Godzilla is more well-known at this point, and it’s fine to not have a big focus, but I wish there was a little bit more of a direct comparison of Godzilla to the other two monsters, or more of a connection. I said it wasn’t a deal breaker, but I just think it’s a minor missed opportunity. Kong/Mothra/Zone Fighter could’ve shown up at the end and it wouldn’t make a difference…although you could say that about the other 70s films.

[edgaguirus]

Godzilla was full on superhero at this time, so just showing up saved time as well as allowing Titanosaurus to get his/her moment. Godzilla even does a Batman move by emerging from his Godzilla Cave in Zonefighter. He arrives to fight, save the day, and return to the sea.

However, I do see LSD's point of view. Godzilla vs Gigan had that nice technique of switching scenes from the destruction of Tokyo to our heroic kaiju making their way to Japan. It did add a little suspense to the moment.

[JVM]

I think the specific themes of ToMG has keeping Godzilla distant make a lot of sense - while the other '70s films somewhat accepted their setting as a World of Monsters, core to ToMG is that Mafune was ostracized from the scientific community for his 'living dinosaur' claims. Showing scenes of Godzilla, Anguirus, Rodan, Gorosaurus and so forth on Monster Island might damage that idea a lot, and why he might be desperate enough to work with evil alien invaders; nobody's asking for the whole Monster Island shebang, but even showing too much of Godzilla runs that risk, so I think it's better to play him to a minimum for that. The later Rodan/King Ghidorah/Manda bit with Katsura is blink-and-you-miss-it visual so doesn't run the same risk, imo, and really helps Katsura and Titanosaurus' arc by using the monsters to provide a contrasting example.

[shadowgigan]

That's how I took it as well, a point that always befuddled me given the events of the previous film. I need to rewatch the two.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I think the specific themes of ToMG has keeping Godzilla distant make a lot of sense - while the other '70s films somewhat accepted their setting as a World of Monsters, core to ToMG is that Mafune was ostracized from the scientific community for his 'living dinosaur' claims. Showing scenes of Godzilla, Anguirus, Rodan, Gorosaurus and so forth on Monster Island might damage that idea a lot, and why he might be desperate enough to work with evil alien invaders; nobody's asking for the whole Monster Island shebang, but even showing too much of Godzilla runs that risk, so I think it's better to play him to a minimum for that. The later Rodan/King Ghidorah/Manda bit with Katsura is blink-and-you-miss-it visual so doesn't run the same risk, imo, and really helps Katsura and Titanosaurus' arc by using the monsters to provide a contrasting example.

I might be wrong, but upon my rewatch I’ve interpreted Mafune’s claims and ostracisation being a more direct result of trying to mind control a giant dinosaur.

But, also, consider the fact that this controversy happened in the past. If TOMG took place in 1975, then it’s possible that the events portrayed in the film with this film occurred 1950s, when Godzilla didn’t exist. Even if this is post 1954, if we look solely at a Godzilla timeline, then really monsters don’t start appearing Willy-nilly till the 60s. Possible to assume that if even if Godzilla, Angurius, and Rodan existed, people in scientific communities would be very skeptical of Titanosaurus living peacefully under everyone’s noses.

This used to bother me, but now it doesn’t.

I think this also adds, and justifies, Mafune’s bitterness. Monsters do exist, so Mafune was absolutely right. It gets worse if you consider they wind up controlling all the monsters in DAM anyways.

Also, I do like that little scene of Rodan, Ghidorah, and Manda, even if it’s stock footage. Despite the low monster count, it still makes everything feel cohesive.