Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

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Kaijucifer
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by Kaijucifer »

MC_Lovecraft wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2024 1:32 pm
Kaijucifer wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2024 11:26 am
miguelnuva wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2024 5:14 pm

Zeus was petty and was only revered because he was so much more powerful then everyone else and through around his weight like a little kid. Neither Zeus nor the TFS skit would be good for Godzilla.
Look theres really not another choice of Chief God that fits better. Odin? No. Jupiter? No. Indra? No. Shiva? No. Crom Cruach? No. Its either Zeus, or Jehovah. And atheists already bash Christianity enough as is, so Jehovah is a no go.
Not that I really think it's necessary for Godzilla to be "like" a human god, but why not Odin? He's one of the oldest of the Aesir. He's a god of kings and rulership, and of wise war. He's also extremely dangerous, never crossed and called upon only in greatest need. Sound like anybody we know? :godzilla2021:
Because Thor and Thors sons are stronger than him (Thor's sons later on are actually stronger than Thor), and it wouldnt look good for the chief god if he isnt the strongest of the "Good" Gods. Plus, Odin is also not really like his son, Thor (for better or worse) and Godzilla doesnt really fit that bill. Yeah, Godzilla is wise, but hes as masculine as it gets and Odin was at times considered the opposite for doing things women were known to do. The only way you could make Godzilla a norse god is if you combined Odin and Thor into one as he has traits of both but doesnt really conform to either more than halfway.

Added in 4 minutes 10 seconds:
miguelnuva wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2024 12:39 pm
Kaijucifer wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2024 11:26 am
miguelnuva wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2024 5:14 pm

Zeus was petty and was only revered because he was so much more powerful then everyone else and through around his weight like a little kid. Neither Zeus nor the TFS skit would be good for Godzilla.
Look theres really not another choice of Chief God that fits better. Odin? No. Jupiter? No. Indra? No. Shiva? No. Crom Cruach? No. Its either Zeus, or Jehovah. And atheists already bash Christianity enough as is, so Jehovah is a no go.
Godzilla is who he should act like. The American novels and the showa series already showed Godzilla as the leader of Earth's kaiju.
Thats all well and good but KotM established Titans as the origins of the myths of old. The implication being that every titan has lore from these stories and has a title bestowed already. Godzilla will ALWAYS be known as Godzilla but that doesnt mean Monarch could uncover some old myths about our big guy as some neat info that wont go anywhere in terms of changing what the consensus of Godzilla's name is - since hed be the chief God in the new One Earth pantheon so to speak, and would just be known as Godzilla, King of Kings.

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Jeff-Goldblum2 wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2024 4:35 pm I just realized that Shimo is this series Anguirus. Or equivalent.

Think on it. Quadrepedal, very spiky and starts off fighting Godzilla but becomes an ally. Also Rodan gets a fire based glow up, whilst Anguirus/Shimo gets an ice power glow up.
Ironically before GvK came out I was writing a fan story where a pale white anguirus would rise from Hollow Earth (before I knew what itd be like) as the REAL natural rival to Godzilla, only he lost the competition with a scar of a bite on his neck. The kicker: hed have ice powers which i was looking into using pseudo science to explain. Then GvK came out and the amount of uncaring put into everything just destroyed my vision and i gave up, only to arthur-clenched-fist meme when I saw what they did with Shimo lol! But hey i guess someone and I was thinking on the same wavelength at the time.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by miguelnuva »

Handsome Shrek wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2024 2:40 pm I wouldn't be upset if Shimo returned, but I have no desire to see her again. There just wasn't really anything distinctly interesting about her

She has an unremarkable design and didn't really have much of a presence in the film beyond being Skar King's horse. It was almost like they were pressed for time and had to churn-out a brand new titan at the last minute

Such a shame. So much wasted potential
She's just there for there to be a reason Godzilla and Kong have to team up. The New Empire's goal narrative was to get Godzilla and Kong as allies.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by Jeff-Goldblum2 »

Kaijucifer wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2024 4:44 pm
MC_Lovecraft wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2024 1:32 pm
Kaijucifer wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2024 11:26 am Ironically before GvK came out I was writing a fan story where a pale white anguirus would rise from Hollow Earth (before I knew what itd be like) as the REAL natural rival to Godzilla, only he lost the competition with a scar of a bite on his neck. The kicker: hed have ice powers which i was looking into using pseudo science to explain. Then GvK came out and the amount of uncaring put into everything just destroyed my vision and i gave up, only to arthur-clenched-fist meme when I saw what they did with Shimo lol! But hey i guess someone and I was thinking on the same wavelength at the time.
That's wild. Should be collectively considered Ice Anguirus from here on in.
:Anguirus:

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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by Gojira18 »

miguelnuva wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2024 5:02 pm
Handsome Shrek wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2024 2:40 pm I wouldn't be upset if Shimo returned, but I have no desire to see her again. There just wasn't really anything distinctly interesting about her

She has an unremarkable design and didn't really have much of a presence in the film beyond being Skar King's horse. It was almost like they were pressed for time and had to churn-out a brand new titan at the last minute

Such a shame. So much wasted potential
She's just there for there to be a reason Godzilla and Kong have to team up. The New Empire's goal narrative was to get Godzilla and Kong as allies.
And it doesn't even do THAT well. It's a Kong movie with Godzilla getting Kong's table scraps for 30 second clips before he's shoehorned in as his attack dog.
"[GxK] feels like a proof of concept for Legendary to make a film entirely by AI. Monster fights are the one thing it offers and it fucks them mostly too, every other aspect of the film is dogshit and it seems to genuinely mock its audience for watching it."
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by king_ghidorah »

I’ve cooled on this film ever so slightly and the main reasons for that are three things.

1. This is my main issue and why I rank GvK higher now, but the final battle seems incredibly anemic and rushed. The Egypt battle is great, but after that it just seems like we are in a mad sprint to finish the film. It doesn’t seem as impactful as even the brief team up to fight Mg in GvK.

2. Moreso than any other film in the MV I feel like nearly every line in this movie is just raw exposition dump.

3. The CG in the first third of the film is pretty weak. It looks rough….the worst of the MV in spots. Kong has a lot of character and charm so it kind of speeds past the unfinished looking aspects of things but it still looks bad no matter how you slice it.

That all being said. It’s still a fun ride. I enjoy the characters, human and titan, and I love the first half or two thirds of the movie, and I still really like the back part as well….its just weaker than everything that comes before it, while the other films wisely leave things on a high.

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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by Handsome Shrek »

I think New Empire has the weakest climax of all the Monsterverse films. There's no weight to it, and Godzilla and Kong are never in any sort of danger

It feels too much like one of the Pipeworks games. I watched KotM right before this one back-to-back last night, and it's clear the KotM is just simply the better kaiju movie

Added in 2 minutes 52 seconds:
The next one should be more like KotM. Bring back the serious tone, weight of the monsters, the stakes, etc

Added in 5 minutes 10 seconds:
I also think it's funny that Skar King and Shimo aren't even so much as MENTIONED until at least halfway through the movie and then end up basically doing nothing of significance in the film

Skar King at least should've been there in the beginning of the movie

Added in 41 minutes 29 seconds:
It's still a really enjoyable film, but New Empire just simply missed a lot of the swings it took. I'm not a fan of the sillier tone than the other Monsterverse movies, for example. It just simply feels too much like a superhero movie than a kaij
Top five favorite Monsterverse titans:

1. Godzilla and King Ghidorah equally
2. Methuselah
3. Mecha-Godzilla
4. Doug

Honorable mentions: Tiamat

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miguelnuva
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by miguelnuva »

New Empire feels like filler to me. They needed Mothra back and Godzilla and Kong to be friends for what ever happens in Mv6.

It's not the best film but I still enjoy it.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by JVM »

king_ghidorah wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2024 6:19 am I’ve cooled on this film ever so slightly and the main reasons for that are three things.

1. This is my main issue and why I rank GvK higher now, but the final battle seems incredibly anemic and rushed. The Egypt battle is great, but after that it just seems like we are in a mad sprint to finish the film. It doesn’t seem as impactful as even the brief team up to fight Mg in GvK.
I definitely agree the final battle seems rushed; I also felt GvK's teamup with Mechagodzilla was rushed, to be honest though. Wingard's films both feel like they peak when Godzilla and Kong face off and then the team-up following it feels slightly forced and dissatisfying to illustrate the strength of Godzilla and Kong's collective team up, rather than being any kind of a challenge in itself.
2. Moreso than any other film in the MV I feel like nearly every line in this movie is just raw exposition dump.
I agree but I think this was the right approach. GKOTM's efforts to pour buckets of fake pathos into the human story combined with the forced edgelord humor both weakened the final film - so focusing the human plots on getting the monster stuff moving along avoids the majority of that, and unlike GvK, I appreciated that GxK kept the humans mostly together instead of jumping around a lot.
That all being said. It’s still a fun ride. I enjoy the characters, human and titan, and I love the first half or two thirds of the movie, and I still really like the back part as well….its just weaker than everything that comes before it, while the other films wisely leave things on a high.
This is where I disagree just a little more. I still prefer it over Gkotm and GvK personally, and think it has a much stronger ending in terms of the post-fight. GKOTM ended on the really forced, lame shot of Godzilla roaring over the other monsters who never do anything again, without any falling action whatsoever, and GvK has Kong ruling Hollow Earth, but it's still pretty hollow at that time compared to now that he has a community and Shimo with him. I do see where you're coming from in that ending off right after the climax can emotionally feel like leaving on a high.
miguelnuva wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2024 4:38 pm New Empire feels like filler to me. They needed Mothra back and Godzilla and Kong to be friends for what ever happens in Mv6.

It's not the best film but I still enjoy it.
I disagree with the idea the film was needed to set up a Godzilla-Kong friendship for Mv6. It's very clear nothing (in terms of plot, not counting post credits bullshit) in the MV is made with a future film planned in mind for one thing, and for another, you could have easily used the ending of GvK to say they were friends now. It might not have felt completely organic but it could have been done just as easily as Anguirus and Godzilla being friends by the 70s. If this was something they felt needed this level of explanation, they're overrthinking things more than the fans.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by king_ghidorah »

Hey JVM, I really appreciate your thoughts there man.

The one thing I wanted to say here is about the exposition dump…you are absolutely correct. It’s both a negative and a positive and I was even thinking about that yesterday when I typed that all out. It’s an extremely tight, purposefully paced film. It’s very lean. And that’s actually a good thing depending on what mood you’re in. I know when I first saw the movie with my six year old we had an absolute blast with it. To this day, it’s still the most fun initial viewing of a Godzilla movie I’ve ever had and I’m almost 40. So that’s saying something.

I still like/love the movie. I just see that it has some flaws now and it really comes down that everything after Egypt. Even then, it’s not BAD. I just wanted it breathe a little more.

I do wonder if the next film will have the team up play out longer which will kind of contrast GvK and GxK in terms of showing how strong their next adversary might be. We have seen twice now how quickly Godzilla and Kong can wipe the floor with a foe if they’re working together. It might make it all the more impactful if they’re suddenly not able to do that. Perhaps they lose their first match and have to rally even more forces to help in the final battle. You could really go full goofy 80s action movie style if Wingard is involved in anyway at this point and have a joint Apollo Creed/Rocky styled training montage lol.

I suspect they’re going to go darker in tone though.

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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by MechaGodzilla »

I really enjoyed it but it's a step down from GVK

Pros
-The Monsters
I really love Evolved Godzilla's design with the slimmed-ish version as well as the dorsal fins being pink and Beast Glove Kong looks sick with that metal fist. Skar King is an absolute Scumbag that most people can hate and Shimo is also pretty cool being an ice Godzilla. The drownviper is awesome and I love how Doug got a cameo. I also love how the story progresses where there are some moments where it's just only the monsters and it honestly shows that if done right you can make a Good Monster film if it's just the Monsters and I think that this film does that extraordinary.

-The Soundtrack.
It's very decent and a huge step up of from GVK's

-The Characters.
I am so glad that they shrunk down the cast to just 4 people, all of them while not amazing or have a ton of depth they are overall interesting and kinda good and likeable especially trapper.

-The Action.
It's also a step down from GVK's but it's just great fun monster action.

Cons
-The Villains underutilization.
Skar King and Shimo have probably some of the most missed potential in any Godzilla Movie as villains, and I get that every villain in the Monsterverse dies in the end but I kinda hated how they killed of Skar King. At least they kept Shimo. Not to mention the fact that Skar King and Shimo were both revealed so late into the movie.

-The Plot
It's not bad but a decent plot but there are somethings that I just don't understand like the scene where Kong goes to a Monarch outpost for him to get a metal tooth, I guess it's just there to introduce Trapper but I think they could have done things better.

-Godzilla being sidelined
I didn't mind Godzilla being sidelined in GVK due to the fact that most of his scenes are incredibly iconic like where he appears in Florida and then goes to hong kong where he digs deep into the Hollow Earth but for GXK his scenes feel pretty weak and not that iconic. It's just a small plot where Godzilla goes to absorb some radiation and then Evolves. It's not a massive issue for me but I understand why fans were upset about it due to the fact that Godzilla was marketed a ton in this movie.

-Mothra
She kinda felt shoe horned not to mention she doesn't do a lot in the movie

What I would change
-Skar King and Shimo would both appear earlier in the movie to make them feel more threatening, they would both stay alive and Skar King would be a reoccurring villain while Shimo becomes free.
-There would be a build up for Mothra as well as the Human characters talking about Mothra's sacrifice back in 2019

Overall I understand the problems as to why some people didn't like this movie but to me it's a great fun time.
Overall 7.5/10
Good Movie.
Last edited by MechaGodzilla on Fri Oct 11, 2024 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

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Had to go through the torture of actually watching this piece of sh*t again 'cause I was with someone who never saw it but wanted to...and god damn, this sucks. Godzilla's fights against Scylla and Tiamat are garbage, the attack against the French power plant is decent (I guess, stretching a little there) Godzilla being in Gibraltar is DUMB and literally only exists as an excuse to get the shot of him standing on the cliff. "Yeah, I just evolved because I can sense a powerful threat coming from the Hollow Earth. Quick, let me travel to Gibraltar and waste precious time so that I can practice my high dives. Sure, that sounds pretty dumb as hell, but hey, I am Wingard's Godzilla after all." The fight against Kong is dumb and it highlights probably my biggest problem with the movie....Godzilla's evolved form SUCKS. Godzilla evolves, supposedly sO mUcH MoAr POwAFUL nOw...proceeds to get knocked out by a giant monkey who isn't even trying to fight him....Jesus Christ. And to save me from typing more than I want....skip to Brazil. Scar King laughing like a moron. Godzilla SUPERCHARGES! HE HOLDS OUT HIS ARMS WANTING TO GIVE A HUG. HE GLOWS SUPER PINK (which looks pretty dumb)...AND THEN....he is simply unable to hit a big monkey. Couldn't hit Kong in Hong Kong. Couldn't hit Kong in wide open desert in Egypt. And couldn't hit Skar King's ass in Brazil...after 3 separate charge attempts. All that build up for nothing..is simply bizarre. It's a garbage scene. THEN HE ACTUALLY HITS SHIMO! A MIRACLE FROM ABOVE! GOD BLESSES HIM WITH SUDDEN AIM! AND....it does literally nothing to Shimo. :lol:

Garbage ass new form in a garbage ass movie. How anyone can like this will genuinely befuddle me forever.

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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

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Moogabunga wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:23 pm Had to go through the torture of actually watching this piece of sh*t again 'cause I was with someone who never saw it but wanted to...and god damn, this sucks. Godzilla's fights against Scylla and Tiamat are garbage, the attack against the French power plant is decent (I guess, stretching a little there) Godzilla being in Gibraltar is DUMB and literally only exists as an excuse to get the shot of him standing on the cliff. "Yeah, I just evolved because I can sense a powerful threat coming from the Hollow Earth. Quick, let me travel to Gibraltar and waste precious time so that I can practice my high dives. Sure, that sounds pretty dumb as hell, but hey, I am Wingard's Godzilla after all." The fight against Kong is dumb and it highlights probably my biggest problem with the movie....Godzilla's evolved form SUCKS. Godzilla evolves, supposedly sO mUcH MoAr POwAFUL nOw...proceeds to get knocked out by a giant monkey who isn't even trying to fight him....Jesus Christ. And to save me from typing more than I want....skip to Brazil. Scar King laughing like a moron. Godzilla SUPERCHARGES! HE HOLDS OUT HIS ARMS WANTING TO GIVE A HUG. HE GLOWS SUPER PINK (which looks pretty dumb)...AND THEN....he is simply unable to hit a big monkey. Couldn't hit Kong in Hong Kong. Couldn't hit Kong in wide open desert in Egypt. And couldn't hit Skar King's ass in Brazil...after 3 separate charge attempts. All that build up for nothing..is simply bizarre. It's a garbage scene. THEN HE ACTUALLY HITS SHIMO! A MIRACLE FROM ABOVE! GOD BLESSES HIM WITH SUDDEN AIM! AND....it does literally nothing to Shimo. :lol:

Garbage ass new form in a garbage ass movie. How anyone can like this will genuinely befuddle me forever.
Why you keep coming back to the Monsterverse subform to complain about the same stuff over and over befuddles me. You don't have to like GxK, you don't have to say anything nice if you got nothing out of the film but why walls of text every time you complain about the direction of the MV.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by Gojira18 »

Moogabunga wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:23 pm Had to go through the torture of actually watching this piece of sh*t again 'cause I was with someone who never saw it but wanted to...and god damn, this sucks. Godzilla's fights against Scylla and Tiamat are garbage, the attack against the French power plant is decent (I guess, stretching a little there) Godzilla being in Gibraltar is DUMB and literally only exists as an excuse to get the shot of him standing on the cliff. "Yeah, I just evolved because I can sense a powerful threat coming from the Hollow Earth. Quick, let me travel to Gibraltar and waste precious time so that I can practice my high dives. Sure, that sounds pretty dumb as hell, but hey, I am Wingard's Godzilla after all." The fight against Kong is dumb and it highlights probably my biggest problem with the movie....Godzilla's evolved form SUCKS. Godzilla evolves, supposedly sO mUcH MoAr POwAFUL nOw...proceeds to get knocked out by a giant monkey who isn't even trying to fight him....Jesus Christ. And to save me from typing more than I want....skip to Brazil. Scar King laughing like a moron. Godzilla SUPERCHARGES! HE HOLDS OUT HIS ARMS WANTING TO GIVE A HUG. HE GLOWS SUPER PINK (which looks pretty dumb)...AND THEN....he is simply unable to hit a big monkey. Couldn't hit Kong in Hong Kong. Couldn't hit Kong in wide open desert in Egypt. And couldn't hit Skar King's ass in Brazil...after 3 separate charge attempts. All that build up for nothing..is simply bizarre. It's a garbage scene. THEN HE ACTUALLY HITS SHIMO! A MIRACLE FROM ABOVE! GOD BLESSES HIM WITH SUDDEN AIM! AND....it does literally nothing to Shimo. :lol:

Garbage ass new form in a garbage ass movie. How anyone can like this will genuinely befuddle me forever.
Preach, brother! Preach!
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by king_ghidorah »

In agree about not understanding why some people just keep coming back here to complain.

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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by Moogabunga »

king_ghidorah wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:05 am In agree about not understanding why some people just keep coming back here to complain.
Because the people who actually love Godzilla and love the idea of Godzilla having a big budget franchise should want the films to actually be good...not accept large piles of sh*t that garbage directors shovel out. Letting bizarre praising of atrocious films go unchecked creates a false narrative and worldview that the majority of the fanbase wants that horrifying quality to continue. And I have to believe in my heart of hearts that the Godzilla fanbase as a whole collectively has an IQ high enough to realize that 'New Empire' sucks. Though some people aren't a part of that collective... ;)

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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by miguelnuva »

king_ghidorah wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:05 am In agree about not understanding why some people just keep coming back here to complain.
Sounds like It's just going to devolve into your low iq if you like GxK I don't like it from here on out KG. I'd save my time going forward.
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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by MC_Lovecraft »

miguelnuva wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 10:57 am
king_ghidorah wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:05 am In agree about not understanding why some people just keep coming back here to complain.
Sounds like It's just going to devolve into your low iq if you like GxK I don't like it from here on out KG. I'd save my time going forward.
It's really just about the only sensible thing you can do with flamers, huh?

Anyway! A thought occurred to me the other day, about the second season of Legacy of Monsters. Because the action is moving to Skull Island, what do you think the odds are of some kind of background reference to Skar King? The pre-marketing for GxK implied that he could, and did, visit Skull Island sometimes, which is a silly retcon in my opinion, but maybe they could make something of it with a little more time and space to address it?

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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by JVM »

Moogabunga wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:45 amBecause the people who actually love Godzilla and love the idea of Godzilla having a big budget franchise should want the films to actually be good...not accept large piles of sh*t that garbage directors shovel out. Letting bizarre praising of atrocious films go unchecked creates a false narrative and worldview that the majority of the fanbase wants that horrifying quality to continue. And I have to believe in my heart of hearts that the Godzilla fanbase as a whole collectively has an IQ high enough to realize that 'New Empire' sucks. Though some people aren't a part of that collective... ;)
Can you not say this about any film in the MonsterVerse by default?
I used to be a lot more optimistic and outgoing, believe it or not. I used to actually be passionate about this stuff.

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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

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Some of these posts remind me of old, angry, mid 2010s TK. Beautiful

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Re: Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire SPOILER/GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

Post by gottatalktothefake »

If you try to bring IQ arguments into discussions about subjective taste then you have immediately lost.
GojiSquid wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:58 am TBF if a movie has a sex scene without a monster mash, then is it really a graveyard smash?

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