How would you re-write each Heisei film?

[Legion1979]

This conversation hurts my brain.

It's nuts that almost 30 years after it ended it's still difficult to be critical of the Heisei series without fans defending them in nonsensical ways.

[shadowgigan]

I think Junior's growth is one of the best aspects of the series, so even if I rewrote or cut much to do with the continuity between films, I don't think I could bring myself to delete that aspect.

[LegendZilla]

As a matter of fact the Millennium films are basically Heisei with no Continuity.

And GMK and Godzilla X Mechagodzilla were both vastly better than any of the 90s Heisei movies. Neither of those films would have been possible if Toho produced sequels to Godzilla 2000 instead of standalone films.

Even if Toho did produce sequels to G2K, who says such films could've been good in their own right?

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

As a matter of fact the Millennium films are basically Heisei with no Continuity.

And GMK and Godzilla X Mechagodzilla were both vastly better than any of the 90s Heisei movies. Neither of those films would have been possible if Toho produced sequels to Godzilla 2000 instead of standalone films.

Even if Toho did produce sequels to G2K, who says such films could've been good in their own right?

I have no way of knowing whether such hypothetical films could've been good or not, but I do know they would have lacked the uniqueness of GMK, a film which provided a much needed breath of fresh air after a decade of stylistic stagnation in the franchise. Something that would've been impossible if it were a sequel film trying to emulate the style of Godzilla 2000. I am grateful that the Millennium series was more ambitious than the Heisei series, even if the final results were still hit and miss.

[JVM]

As a matter of fact the Millennium films are basically Heisei with no Continuity.

The Millennium series is superior to the Heisei series in almost every imaginable way.

No it isn't.

Star Wars would be no where as big as it was had their been no Continuity and Continuity is not a death blow to art or creativity. Some if the best creativity was made because their were limits placed on the creative.

The heisei films wouldn't have been better without Continuity either because then we might as well been saying Godzilla vs Bagan would have been better than Godzilla vvs SpaceGodzilla. We're getting different movies but the same teams behind those films. Those that like Heisei still would and those that don't wouldn't.

The Gamera trilogy has Continuity and the majority loves them.

I've only seen Guardian of the Universe so I can't make an informed opinion on the Gamera trilogy but I've seen a lot of people turning on it lately.

Star Wars would have been fine without continuity. People hate most of the films after the first two anyhow which speaks volumes. People were already sick of the franchise by Return of the Jedi. It was special to me as a kid but consensus rules.

I used to be a firm, strong proponent of the "limitation breeds creativity" mindset. I was very, very wrong.

[LegendZilla]

Constantly rebooting a franchise with every new entry is like breaking the mold. However, the more you indulge in it every time, you could ineravertably create a new one. At this point, actaully trying something as simple as a trilogy of Godzilla films could be a potential risk worth taking against the status quo for the past 25 years.

[JVM]

Constantly rebooting a franchise with every new entry is like breaking the mold. However, the more you indulge in it every time, you could ineravertably create a new one. At this point, actaully trying something as simple as a trilogy of Godzilla films could be a potential risk worth taking against the status quo for the past 25 years.

I would expect the first film in the trilogy to be a big success, then the second fizzles out and people start hating the first one, then the third one comes out and the whole trilogy is fully discredited. Reboot again.

Rebooting is always the smart option.

[LegendZilla]

Constantly rebooting a franchise with every new entry is like breaking the mold. However, the more you indulge in it every time, you could ineravertably create a new one. At this point, actaully trying something as simple as a trilogy of Godzilla films could be a potential risk worth taking against the status quo for the past 25 years.

I would expect the first film in the trilogy to be a big success, then the second fizzles out and people start hating the first one, then the third one comes out and the whole trilogy is fully discredited. Reboot again.

Rebooting is always the smart option.

And yet people always complain whenever a previously established Hollywood franchise gets a reboot nowadays. Plus, a trilogy worked for Gamera, so why not Godzilla? If a director wants to make a trilogy of films, should they be prohibted from doing so?

Let's say Toho really did choose to partake in such an endeavour and it did turn out to be overall success. How would you feel if proven wrong with your skeptecism?

[JVM]

And yet people always complain whenever a previously established Hollywood franchise gets a reboot nowadays. Plus, a trilogy worked for Gamera, so why not Godzilla? If a director wants to make a trilogy of films, should they be prohibted from doing so?

Let's say Toho really did choose to partake in such an endeavour and it did turn out to be overall success. How would you feel if proven wrong with your skeptecism?

I think the only reason people complain about reboots is as opposed to original, non-IP work. I don't think anyone has ever complained about a reboot as directly opposed to a sequel.

If I were in charge of a major distribution company, I would absolutely prohibit any direct sequels or continuity.

Toho attempted a trilogy of films recently and it sucked. Should they try again, I expect the same result. I firmly believe the only reasons Shin Godzilla and Godzilla Minus One worked are they can't possibly be followed up on with anything reasonable.

[Voyager]

I think for films to work as independent pieces of art continuity can be taken into account, but it shouldn't be centre stage. If continuity is the focus point of a work, opportunities for it to become it's own piece with it's own unique identity may be lost.

I love continuity though, don't get it twisted. I'd like to see it return to the Godzilla franchise.

[miguelnuva]

As a matter of fact the Millennium films are basically Heisei with no Continuity.

And GMK and Godzilla X Mechagodzilla were both vastly better than any of the 90s Heisei movies. Neither of those films would have been possible if Toho produced sequels to Godzilla 2000 instead of standalone films.

GMK I'll give you. Kiryu i Personally wouldn't say js better than than the 80's Heisei.

Personally I wouldn't call it vastly better than King Ghidorah either. Better sure but not vastly.

[LegendZilla]

Toho attempted a trilogy of films recently and it sucked. Should they try again, I expect the same result. I firmly believe the only reasons Shin Godzilla and Godzilla Minus One worked are they can't possibly be followed up on with anything reasonable.

Firstly, the Polygon trilogy was not technically done by Toho themselves, but outsourced to Polygon pictures. Secondly, it was not originally intended to be a film trilogy, but a TV series. Lastly, just because a trilogy of Godzilla films failed once, does it HAVE to fail again?

[miguelnuva]

And yet people always complain whenever a previously established Hollywood franchise gets a reboot nowadays. Plus, a trilogy worked for Gamera, so why not Godzilla? If a director wants to make a trilogy of films, should they be prohibted from doing so?

Let's say Toho really did choose to partake in such an endeavour and it did turn out to be overall success. How would you feel if proven wrong with your skeptecism?

I think the only reason people complain about reboots is as opposed to original, non-IP work. I don't think anyone has ever complained about a reboot as directly opposed to a sequel.

If I were in charge of a major distribution company, I would absolutely prohibit any direct sequels or continuity.

Toho attempted a trilogy of films recently and it sucked. Should they try again, I expect the same result. I firmly believe the only reasons Shin Godzilla and Godzilla Minus One worked are they can't possibly be followed up on with anything reasonable.

Continuity is not the reason the amine Trilgoy sucked, Toho is.

[JVM]

Toho attempted a trilogy of films recently and it sucked. Should they try again, I expect the same result. I firmly believe the only reasons Shin Godzilla and Godzilla Minus One worked are they can't possibly be followed up on with anything reasonable.

Firstly, the Polygon trilogy was not technically done by Toho themselves, but outsourced to Polygon pictures. Secondly, it was not originally intended to be a film trilogy, but a TV series. Lastly, just because a trilogy of Godzilla films failed once, does it HAVE to fail again?

Continuity is not the reason the amine Trilgoy sucked, Toho is.

A little confusing here but whoever is to 'blame', the trilogy is said to have sucked and they were unable to pivot away from the problem quickly and easily.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

I personally don't see anything wrong with a single trilogy having close continuity. It's when we get into these ridiculous "cinematic universe" with 20 movies and 10 shows sharing the same loosely connected universe and insisting on perfect continuity with one another that my eyes begin to glaze over. I actually overall enjoyed the MCU until after Endgame, when we got bombarded with crappy shows that I couldn't be bothered to watch and then found out many of those shows would have an impact on the plots of movies, which is absolutely ridiculous to me. You can't expect viewers to buy your mediocre streaming app and watch a 10-episode show just to understand the backstory of a character in a movie. Or, you can, but you're an asshole for doing so and you have to know a lot of viewers are going to get fed up with your bullshit.

[mikelcho]

I personally don't see anything wrong with a single trilogy having close continuity. It's when we get into these ridiculous "cinematic universe" with 20 movies and 10 shows sharing the same loosely connected universe and insisting on perfect continuity with one another that my eyes begin to glaze over. I actually overall enjoyed the MCU until after Endgame, when we got bombarded with crappy shows that I couldn't be bothered to watch and then found out many of those shows would have an impact on the plots of movies, which is absolutely ridiculous to me. You can't expect viewers to buy your mediocre streaming app and watch a 10-episode show just to understand the backstory of a character in a movie. Or, you can, but you're an asshole for doing so and you have to know a lot of viewers are going to get fed up with your bullshit.

I don't know. I watched Wandavision with a friend on his streaming service and I thought that it was great. Very interesting concept. What did you think of that one in particular?

[Legion1979]

It's not the quality of the show, it's the principal of forcing someone to pay for a streaming app just to watch a TV show in order to stay current on the plots of movies.

[miguelnuva]

It's not the quality of the show, it's the principal of forcing someone to pay for a streaming app just to watch a TV show in order to stay current on the plots of movies.

You have to pay to see the movies and unless you're one person it's cheaper to get Disney plus.

Marvel's problem was the shows were too long combined with not being that good more so than an amp. It would have been much easier for fans to try and keep up if they would have just dropped 4-6 episode series with better quality on everything.

The shows weren't even connecting to the phase 4 films until Dr Stange came out.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

I generally object to the concept of movies and TV shows sharing a cinematic universe and I loathe the recent trend of TV series like Peaky Blinders and The Mandalorian deciding to conclude with a movie. Finish your story in the show, damn it. And on the flip side, don't expect viewers to sit through 10 hours of TV to fill the gap between movies.

In the case of Star Wars, I think it makes perfect sense for there to be TV shows to explore this huge galaxy, but we once again circle back to the issue of continuity. Every single SW show, particularly those released since the advent of Disney+, seems to be more concerned with keeping continuity with the films and featuring gratuitous cameos by fan favorite characters than with trying to tell its own story. The result is that most of these shows just don't interest me. For my money, Andor and The Mandalorian Seasons 1-2 are the only live-action SW shows that haven't been total shit. That's largely because they actually committed to telling their own stories rather than basing their entire appeal around fan-fic-y connections to the movies or the animated shows - unlike Obi-Wan, Boba Fett and Ahsoka, which were just tedious fan service.

[edgaguirus]

Going back to the idea of continuity, I see no problem with a group of films or tv shows following a storyline. What matters is the quality of the films or shows. The Gamera trilogy linked the films in a way that allowed creativity and made the films great. A Godzilla trilogy could be a great thing as well. It all depends on who is involved and how they do it.

Reboots are also good. All franchises need new ideas now and then.