Talkback Thread: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
This movie made me fall in love with Godzilla and Mothra and was the first Showa film I've seen. I know it so well I can watch the Toho 4k Blu-ray and still know what is being talked about.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
One thing I’ve noticed and thought throughout the years is I think there’s a preference from some people to have fights between bipedal/quadrupedal creatures.king_ghidorah wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2024 2:30 pm I’m going to be real with everyone. This is a safe space right?
This film isn’t in my top 10. I enjoy King Kong vs Godzilla more. Hell, on any given day I’d rather watch GTTHM (which I argue is a better film than MvG), Monster Zero, Gigan or MG 74.
Mothra vs Godzilla is a good film. I’m not arguing that it’s not. But it’s just not as muscular or as fun as the others I’ve mentioned. It’s fine. Solid. But the third act falters. The fights ….are kind of dull and the humans, while fun, are not as fun as the other film’s casts that I mentioned.
It does everything well. It’s a good Goldilocks film of the Showa era in some ways. I just feel that other films have higher highs when it comes to monster action, the score or fun humans.
Mothra, Ebirah, and Kumonga all have entertaining fights, but for me they don’t hit the same sweet spot action wise as Godzilla Vs Kong, or Godzilla Vs Gigan.
I like the ending of Godzilla Vs the two larva a lot, but I completely understand how it can be underwhelming to some.
I wish we got to see the adult Mothra people used more throughout the Showa series. Would be neat to see how they’d improve upon its usage.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
I really don't think they would have improved upon it. If anything I think the Mothra effects would gave gotten worse. Look what happened to King Ghidorah.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
Both fights aren't as impressive as later vs battles, but they make up for it in the drama factor. You can see the desperate determination imago Mothra, despite being old and not well armed, has in the fight as she saves her egg. The battle with the larvae is also handled well. It seems one-sided but is a perfect demonstration of brain over brawn.LSD Jellyfish wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 3:33 pm [
I like the ending of Godzilla Vs the two larva a lot, but I completely understand how it can be underwhelming to some.
I'm the plumber. I'm just hanging around if something goes wrong with her pipes. That's the first time I've used that joke in 20 years.
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Twice I've been followed by something that was not human, something that attempted to take my life. I believe that was the cat form of Irena.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
I actually prefer the larva battle over the adult form.
I have a feeling this will eventually land stronger for me like Monster Zero has.
Last complaint from me.
I also…just find the message to be a bit ham fisted and preachy in a clumsy way.
There. Gripes done. Sorry folks!
I have a feeling this will eventually land stronger for me like Monster Zero has.
Last complaint from me.
I also…just find the message to be a bit ham fisted and preachy in a clumsy way.
There. Gripes done. Sorry folks!
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
Finally rewatched this movie today. I was hoping to see it at the Pickwick but I made the mistake of staying over with my folks last night.
So one thing that stood out -- although nobody is familiar with the egg, everyone seems pretty familiar with Mothra already. They know she exists and seem aware she may be capable of things. It definitely seems like Mothra at least is canon, even though there has been some claiming that the Godzilla films don't share continuity with other Toho science fiction films at all.
Noticed their "last line of defense" is lightning generators -- it really feels like most of the early sixties films still viewed lightning as a Godzilla weakness. I've had a lot of people insist I'm full of shit when I say this, but it's in G54, Kong is given electricity powers to one-up Godzilla, there's this, and King Ghidorah's iconic gravity beams resemble lightning... it's remarkably consistent up to a point.
Godzilla killing the moustached rich guy whose name escapes me not twenty minutes after finishing the movie is a highlight and one of the best done scenes in the Showa series in terrms of human-monster action crossover in my opinion.
I did think it's interesting Godzilla uses his tail a lot in this movie, and Mothra grabbing on to it very much showing it as a liability as well.
I respect this film a lot but I can see why I wasn't often drawn to rewatch it.
So one thing that stood out -- although nobody is familiar with the egg, everyone seems pretty familiar with Mothra already. They know she exists and seem aware she may be capable of things. It definitely seems like Mothra at least is canon, even though there has been some claiming that the Godzilla films don't share continuity with other Toho science fiction films at all.
Noticed their "last line of defense" is lightning generators -- it really feels like most of the early sixties films still viewed lightning as a Godzilla weakness. I've had a lot of people insist I'm full of shit when I say this, but it's in G54, Kong is given electricity powers to one-up Godzilla, there's this, and King Ghidorah's iconic gravity beams resemble lightning... it's remarkably consistent up to a point.
Godzilla killing the moustached rich guy whose name escapes me not twenty minutes after finishing the movie is a highlight and one of the best done scenes in the Showa series in terrms of human-monster action crossover in my opinion.
I did think it's interesting Godzilla uses his tail a lot in this movie, and Mothra grabbing on to it very much showing it as a liability as well.
I respect this film a lot but I can see why I wasn't often drawn to rewatch it.
Last edited by JVM on Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
It wasn't Kumayama (the mustached guy) who Godzilla kills in the film. It was Torahata, played by Kenji Sahara.JVM wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:06 pm Finally rewatched this movie today. I was hoping to see it at the Pickwick but I made the mistake of staying over with my folks last night.
So one thing that stood out -- although nobody is familiar with the egg, everyone seems pretty familiar with Mothra already. They know she exists and seem aware she may be capable of things. It definitely seems like Mothra at least is canon, even though there has been some claiming that the Godzilla films don't share continuity with other Toho science fiction films at all.
Noticed their "last line of defense" is lightning generators -- it really feels like most of the early sixties films still viewed lightning as a Godzilla weakness. I've had a lot of people insist I'm full of shit when I say this, but it's in G54, Kong is given electricity powers to one-up Godzilla, there's this, and King Ghidorah's iconic gravity beams resemble lightning... it's remarkably consistent up to a point.
Godzilla killing the moustached rich guy whose name escapes me not twenty minutes after finishing the movie is a highlight and one of the best done scenes in the Showa series in terrms of human-monster action crossover in my opinion.
I did think it's interesting Godzilla uses his tail a lot in this movie, and Mothra grabbing on to it very much showing it as a liability as well.
I respect this film a lot but I can see why I wasn't often drawn to rewatch it.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
Torahata's death scene remains the best human villain death in the Showa series. He could have fled the moment he killed his "partner", but he just had to have all that money. His greed, which created the whole egg situation, is what ends up killing him.
I'm the plumber. I'm just hanging around if something goes wrong with her pipes. That's the first time I've used that joke in 20 years.
Twice I've been followed by something that was not human, something that attempted to take my life. I believe that was the cat form of Irena.
Twice I've been followed by something that was not human, something that attempted to take my life. I believe that was the cat form of Irena.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
I see. I thought Kumayama killed Torahata, tried to run off with the money, and then Godzilla attacked the building. I must have mixed up which was which.LegendZilla wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 3:44 amIt wasn't Kumayama (the mustached guy) who Godzilla kills in the film. It was Torahata, played by Kenji Sahara.
I used to be a lot more optimistic and outgoing, believe it or not. I used to actually be passionate about this stuff.
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Re: Talkback Thread: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
IMO the ending would've been better if Mothra & her larvae fought against Godzilla at the same time. I never understood why Godzilla just left after Mothra died
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Re: Talkback Thread: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
This is kind of a weird movie in that regard. The fandom has always held it up as this showcase of an evil, marauding, rampaging Godzilla, but in terms of what he actually does on screen... he really seems to be avoiding conflict as much as he can. His attack on Nagoya might have been deliberate, but a lot of the destruction he causes is accidental, the result of clumsiness. And he never actually starts a fight. Mothra, the military, and the larvae all go after him while he tries to walk away. He doesn't seriously fight back until he's forced to, and even then, his counterattacks are relatively restrained. As soon as Mothra goes down, he's out of there. He doesn't go in and desecrate her corpse like in later movies.
It seems to be that Honda was really putting his "monsters are tragic beings" philosophy to work in this one. Godzilla is stuck in an environment he simply can't coexist with, and conflict happens everywhere he goes. Which isn't to call him innocent; he could have avoided Nagoya, and he did go after the egg.
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Re: Talkback Thread: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
How would that ending have made any emotional sense? You'd be completely re-writing the movie if you didn't kill Mothra or have the larvae avenge her death. You clearly care very little for competent storytelling in favor of surface level monster battle stuff.
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Re: Talkback Thread: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
He does technically start the fight with Mothra. He ends up near the egg and is trying to destroy it. Mothra then arrives and warns him and he challenges her.JAGzilla wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2024 2:38 pmThis is kind of a weird movie in that regard. The fandom has always held it up as this showcase of an evil, marauding, rampaging Godzilla, but in terms of what he actually does on screen... he really seems to be avoiding conflict as much as he can. His attack on Nagoya might have been deliberate, but a lot of the destruction he causes is accidental, the result of clumsiness. And he never actually starts a fight. Mothra, the military, and the larvae all go after him while he tries to walk away. He doesn't seriously fight back until he's forced to, and even then, his counterattacks are relatively restrained. As soon as Mothra goes down, he's out of there. He doesn't go in and desecrate her corpse like in later movies.
It seems to be that Honda was really putting his "monsters are tragic beings" philosophy to work in this one. Godzilla is stuck in an environment he simply can't coexist with, and conflict happens everywhere he goes. Which isn't to call him innocent; he could have avoided Nagoya, and he did go after the egg.
Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
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Re: Talkback Thread: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
Tbf to Mothra, he does try to eat her egg, but I otherwise agree and felt similarly. He even tries to reach the ocean but I think the American navy attacks him, sending him backJAGzilla wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2024 2:38 pmThis is kind of a weird movie in that regard. The fandom has always held it up as this showcase of an evil, marauding, rampaging Godzilla, but in terms of what he actually does on screen... he really seems to be avoiding conflict as much as he can. His attack on Nagoya might have been deliberate, but a lot of the destruction he causes is accidental, the result of clumsiness. And he never actually starts a fight. Mothra, the military, and the larvae all go after him while he tries to walk away. He doesn't seriously fight back until he's forced to, and even then, his counterattacks are relatively restrained. As soon as Mothra goes down, he's out of there. He doesn't go in and desecrate her corpse like in later movies.
It seems to be that Honda was really putting his "monsters are tragic beings" philosophy to work in this one. Godzilla is stuck in an environment he simply can't coexist with, and conflict happens everywhere he goes. Which isn't to call him innocent; he could have avoided Nagoya, and he did go after the egg.
You've shown needless attitude towards me since I came here. I won't engage anymore. ByeLegion1979 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2024 2:49 pmHow would that ending have made any emotional sense? You'd be completely re-writing the movie if you didn't kill Mothra or have the larvae avenge her death. You clearly care very little for competent storytelling in favor of surface level monster battle stuff.
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Re: Talkback Thread: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
I feel the same about his fight with the Imago Mothra. He seemed more interested in the egg that her until she dragged him away from the egg. It was then that he really started to fight back.JAGzilla wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2024 2:38 pmAnd he never actually starts a fight. Mothra, the military, and the larvae all go after him while he tries to walk away. He doesn't seriously fight back until he's forced to, and even then, his counterattacks are relatively restrained. As soon as Mothra goes down, he's out of there. He doesn't go in and desecrate her corpse like in later movies.
I'm the plumber. I'm just hanging around if something goes wrong with her pipes. That's the first time I've used that joke in 20 years.
Twice I've been followed by something that was not human, something that attempted to take my life. I believe that was the cat form of Irena.
Twice I've been followed by something that was not human, something that attempted to take my life. I believe that was the cat form of Irena.
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Re: Talkback Thread: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
It's the same with the military. He ignores the tanks and only starts counterattacking once he's being hurt by the electrical towers and nets.edgaguirus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 10:12 pmI feel the same about his fight with the Imago Mothra. He seemed more interested in the egg that her until she dragged him away from the egg. It was then that he really started to fight back.JAGzilla wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2024 2:38 pmAnd he never actually starts a fight. Mothra, the military, and the larvae all go after him while he tries to walk away. He doesn't seriously fight back until he's forced to, and even then, his counterattacks are relatively restrained. As soon as Mothra goes down, he's out of there. He doesn't go in and desecrate her corpse like in later movies.
He walks away from the larvae and takes a warning shot at them. Again, they have to trap him on the cliff before he fights back.
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Re: Talkback Thread: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
Tbf if someone tried to eat my egg, I'd fight them. It's still aggression by Godzilla, but I agree about the restedgaguirus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 10:12 pmI feel the same about his fight with the Imago Mothra. He seemed more interested in the egg that her until she dragged him away from the egg. It was then that he really started to fight back.
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Re: Talkback Thread: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
Godzilla did start the fight with Mothra. Godzilla looks at the egg, the two have a brief conversation and then Godzilla gets into a battle stance. Mothra just comes out the gate more aggressive because her egg is in danger and she's already dying.
Unless we're not back tracking that we know the kaiju talk from Ghidorah ignore the first part but Godzilla and Mothra say something before they start fighting and Godzilla wants to do something to the egg.
Unless we're not back tracking that we know the kaiju talk from Ghidorah ignore the first part but Godzilla and Mothra say something before they start fighting and Godzilla wants to do something to the egg.
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Re: Talkback Thread: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
What's this about Godzilla and Mothra having a conversation in Mothra vs Godzilla...??
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Re: Talkback Thread: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
Mothra flies in a chrips. Godzilla turns looks at her and roars. Ghidorah establishes that the kaiju talk to each other.Legion1979 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:42 pm What's this about Godzilla and Mothra having a conversation in Mothra vs Godzilla...??
If you back track Ghidorah then Mothra and Godzilla said something to one another. If you don't I say ignore that part of the film.
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