Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

[Chaos Reincarnation]

Well, this movie built the bridge between the Godzilla and Gamera universe. Because I believe that Yukijiro Hotaru´s character is supposed to be the same like in the Gamera Heisei trillogy. His name was never mentioned in GMK and it would have been a genius move by Shusuke Kaneko.

If you're saying this movie takes place in the same universe then no, not at all. But if you mean it's kind of like "the same character just in a different universe" then yea I can totally see that.

[Gailah 1966]

Well, this movie built the bridge between the Godzilla and Gamera universe. Because I believe that Yukijiro Hotaru´s character is supposed to be the same like in the Gamera Heisei trillogy. His name was never mentioned in GMK and it would have been a genius move by Shusuke Kaneko.

If you're saying this movie takes place in the same universe then no, not at all. But if you mean it's kind of like "the same character just in a different universe" then yea I can totally see that.

Remeber, Godzilla was 60 meters tall in GMK, exactly like Gamera. Kaneko wanted to build this bridge for a crossover.

[Chaos Reincarnation]

Well, this movie built the bridge between the Godzilla and Gamera universe. Because I believe that Yukijiro Hotaru´s character is supposed to be the same like in the Gamera Heisei trillogy. His name was never mentioned in GMK and it would have been a genius move by Shusuke Kaneko.

If you're saying this movie takes place in the same universe then no, not at all. But if you mean it's kind of like "the same character just in a different universe" then yea I can totally see that.

Remeber, Godzilla was 60 meters tall in GMK, exactly like Gamera. Kaneko wanted to build this bridge for a crossover.

I would think someone would've mentioned the hoard of gyaos that attacked the world just 2 years before.

[edgaguirus]

And Gamera's sacrifice, if we include G4.

[Chaos Reincarnation]

The reach is long enough, I don't think we can include fan projects.

[LSD Jellyfish]

It's very easy to see GMK as a spiritual successor to the Heisei Gamera series, but nothing more. You can see Kaneko continue the same religious theming and focus on characters that were in Gamera 3.

Chaos Reincarnation is right, it's already too much of a stretch, but even think about the opening scene and general tone of the first third of the film: The Japanese government is shocked by the possible reappearance of Godzilla, or another monster. We know thanks to uncovered drafts (that are supported by direct statements in the final version) that GMK actually takes place/is a very loose sequel to 1998 (hah!). If monsters did attack Japan between 1995 and 1999 you know they'd be bringing that up instead of something that happened far and away in America. Sapporo is gone, Shibuya and Kyoto were destroyed.

[king_ghidorah]

Spiritual for sure.

In fact, it’s kind of a hybrid of the whole trilogy, rolled into one film.

I remain convinced that this movie would be much better appreciated if the effects had been at a Gamera 3 level. I truly think the uneven effects are really the only thing holding it back. Not the choice of Kaiju. Not the more action oriented back half of the film.

[Mechagigan]

I feel like some of GMK's dated effects almost add to this weird, whimsical atmosphere the movie has. Very similar to the Showa era stuff, somehow makes things just a little more surreal. CGI Ghidorah always stands out in my mind as a scene that's definitely not realistic, but still looks really cool.

[Chaos Reincarnation]

I feel like some of GMK's dated effects almost add to this weird, whimsical atmosphere the movie has. Very similar to the Showa era stuff, somehow makes things just a little more surreal. CGI Ghidorah always stands out in my mind as a scene that's definitely not realistic, but still looks really cool.

I feel this way about the first 3 Millenium movies in general.

[king_ghidorah]

I agree that the effects, nearly 20 years later, do have a certain whimsical vibe now....but upon first release, they didn't and I just found them underwhelming compared to G3. This is one of the few G films that have gotten better over time for me as I have been able to divorce it from my initial expectations and the hype from the fandom.

[king_ghidorah]

Just coming back in here to possibly throw in a hot take.

I think GMK might be a better Godzilla film than Minus One.

I think Minus One is unquestionably a better film than GMK, but GMK is a better GODZILLA film.

I think the pacing is more even. It’s not so melodramatic….but it does still have human characters and stakes you can root for. It has more monster action, and with that, it also fully embraces some of the inherent absurdity of the franchise….ghosts, spirits, guardian monsters…while managing to keep a foot firmly rooted in the real world as well.

It also manages to be emotionally resonant with adult themes while still capturing a sense of fun.

Minus One is a more somber, slow experience. And while I love it and it’s depiction of Godzilla, it’s not a film that I would call “fun”. It’s very similar to 54 in that way.

Ultimately, I love both films. They’re each in my top five. If I’m qualitatively observing them, Minus One wins, but at the moment, if I’m looking at them subjectively I give the slight edge to GMK.

[Legion1979]

I'd be with you more if the climax wasn't so sloppy.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I'd be with you more if the climax wasn't so sloppy.

How is the climax of GMK sloppy (or at least sloppier than Minus One). While it does feel like the momentum drops, the fight between the military, Mothra, and Ghidorah, feels like a culmination of everything else established in the film prior, like Minus One’s climax. It still ends on multiple emotional and touching scenes with the admiral and his daughter as well.

I can’t say if I like GMK more or less than -1.0. -1.0 feels a lot fresher and polished, but it lacks some of the dark fantasy and modern military elements I like of GMK. Really hard to sa
which one I like more.

…maybe GMK?

[king_ghidorah]

I'd be with you more if the climax wasn't so sloppy.

How is the climax of GMK sloppy (or at least sloppier than Minus One). While it does feel like the momentum drops, the fight between the military, Mothra, and Ghidorah, feels like a culmination of everything else established in the film prior, like Minus One’s climax. It still ends on multiple emotional and touching scenes with the admiral and his daughter as well.

I can’t say if I like GMK more or less than -1.0. -1.0 feels a lot fresher and polished, but it lacks some of the dark fantasy and modern military elements I like of GMK. Really hard to sa
which one I like more.

…maybe GMK?

Yeah. I would have have loved to have seen a GMK with some of the effects work of Minus One or even Gamera 3.


The ending being sloppy I partially get. It’s basically one long battle….with KG dying and then coming back several times.

But I’ve kind of grown to accept and love it for what it is. (I’ve said several times over the years that I was initially pretty apathetic towards GMK and have only now really come to love it).

Ultimately, these films are both in my top five I think actually and we would never have gotten Minus One without GMK…it effectively acts as the blueprint for it in a lot of ways.

Anyways. Just to put this all in weird perspective.

Here’s my current top five (ok six because fuck it, GMK and Minus One are just gonna be tied).

Return of G
GMK/Minus One
2014
MG 74
GTTHM


Edit. Double fuck it. Throwing GxK in here too. Top 7. My list is a being of chaos that cannot be contained.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

Here’s my current top five (ok six because fuck it, GMK and Minus One are just gonna be tied).

Return of G
GMK/Minus One
2014
MG 74
GTTHM

Damn, that's like the coolest top five six list I've ever seen. Four of those are in my top six as well.

On the subject of GMK vs. Minus One, I'm tempted to agree with your original post that GMK is a better Godzilla movie even though Minus One is the superior film on the whole. I think one amendment to that statement I would make is that I think GMK is the best "Godzilla VS" movie. There's a big distinction between the darker and more serious solo Godzilla films (54, RoG, Shin, now Minus One) and every other film in the franchise. There are some movies, like GMK and G14, that kinda blur the line between a solo/"prestige" Godzilla film and more standard VS fare. But ultimately, GMK is still a VS movie, and part of the reason I think it's the quintessential post-Showa Godzilla movie is because it does have those elements that the series is know for - it's got Mothra and Ghidorah, it's got the fights, it's got a reporter protagonist and a military protagonist, it's got fantasy elements, it's got some humor, etc.

Minus One lacks some of those things - not to its detriment, mind you - and because of that, it feels less like a traditional Godzilla movie. I don't want to parrot every other reviewer calling it Spielbergian but it definitely takes cues from some of Hollywood's best blockbusters and that also contributes to it feeling less like a typical Godzilla movie. While GMK certainly breaks the mold, it's still a kaiju film through and through, there are none of those Jaws or Jurassic Park esq moments in the mix. These are possibly my two favorite films in the franchise and certainly my favorites that have released in my lifetime, so it's fun to compare them.

[king_ghidorah]

Yes!!!

Exactly!!!

GMK is kind of a quintessential Kaiju movie. And I personally like that it’s not so grim/dark,….it has bright magical stuff, but also a heavy message at its heart.

It’s a fun movie whereas Minus One isn’t always super fun but it’s a damned good movie and it’s made amazingly well.

Anyways. I feel super inarticulate at the moment ….i can’t really say anything you didn’t say already. It feels like you were reading my mind and said a bunch of things I’ve been wanting to say for a while. Thank you so much for your post!

[Mechagigan]

It is pretty fascinating how directly inspired Minus One is by GMK, especially with the former's massive success. Besides 1954, I can't think of any other Godzilla movie that was referenced so heavily by a later film, so it's pretty wicked to see GMK getting it's due. I think I also prefer GMK for its more action-fantasy attitude, it's a bit more true to Godzilla's usual spirit.

[MVHutch]

It is pretty fascinating how directly inspired Minus One is by GMK, especially with the former's massive success. Besides 1954, I can't think of any other Godzilla movie that was referenced so heavily by a later film, so it's pretty wicked to see GMK getting it's due. I think I also prefer GMK for its more action-fantasy attitude, it's a bit more true to Godzilla's usual spirit.

Ya, I noticed several of the references while watching it. I always get a kick out of Godzilla coming back at the end of the movie (I think that started with Godzilla vs King Ghidorah). It shows Godzilla can never really be destroyed

Anyways, I really enjoy GMK. They finally delivered on the Ghost Godzilla concept in some ways, though it's via Godzilla himself. I usually don't prefer Godzilla being outright evil, but they did a good job here. Even the human characters are tolerable

As for King Ghidorah: I like the design and the sound effects hearkening back to his Showa Ear sounds, but I don't like him being the good guy or weak. Imo, King Shisa and Varan would've been better used than KG and Baragon.

[JAGzilla]

I prefer GMK for a bunch of shallow reasons. It uses traditional tokusatsu effects. It delivers four kaiju and two memorable kaiju battles. Godzilla has a more basic beam. There are ghosts and blatant supernatural elements. Nostalgia. I've been watching GMK since the mid-2000s, you know? I've probably seen it five or six times, maybe more. It's an old friend at this point. By comparison, I've only seen Minus One once. That first viewing was a freaking blast, but still. I'll need to see it again and let it sink in for a while before it dethrones any of my (many) old favorites. And being made with CGI is always going to set it (and Shin, and the MV) apart from the suitmation entries, regardless of quality. There's a difference.

[JAGzilla]

I'm rewatching this now. Subbed for probably the first time, and the first time on Blu-ray. I wouldn't say it's a huge jump up from the DVD, going from memory, but it looks and sounds nice enough.

This is kind of a fascinating movie in a lot of ways, but for one, in that it really stands out against its Millennium and Heisei contemporaries. They focus a lot on presenting Japan as this modern or even futuristic superpower with giant robots and so on, and whatever problems exist mostly center around basic monster rampages or maybe basic shady government conduct. GMK cuts deeper into the problems, obviously exploring the legacy of WWII guilt, but also just portraying a grungier, nastier Japan full of delinquent kids and ignorance and shallow laziness and sexism. The issue of rural villages being abandoned and ignored is alluded to a few times. The movie also is heavily rooted in the past, ancient or more recent, rather than futuristic stuff. Very different.

The Godzilla suit is a little wonky in terms of proportions, but the head is fantastic. The animatronics in the face really bring it to life. The look of snarling contempt he has as he glares down at the fleeing crowd is really effective.

EDIT: Done. Revisiting GMK after a semi-recent (2020-2022) second watch of the Gamera Trilogy gave me a new perspective on Kaneko kaiju cinema and what he's good at, and while it's not quite as polished and personalized as the Trilogy was, GMK definitely still approaches that level. I found myself paying attention to the details more on this viewing (maybe the Blu-ray picture was a factor after all) and just noticing little touches I hadn't on previous watches.

Case in point, the Baragon battle is excellent. The forested resort town set is totally convincing and seamlessly blends with actual location footage. There are so many props scattered around, like the cars in the cliff side parking lot that Baragon climbs past before pouncing at Godzilla. It feels like a real place. A real event, too; there's a great sense of scale with all the different and varied human perspectives we get. The couple in the cable car. The dumb tourists taking pictures. The news helicopter crew. The military helicopter crew. The command staff watching from headquarters. Yuri and Takeda. Tons of extras running around. It's all very big and dynamic and immersive. And that's before you get into the actual kaiju action, which probably needs less highlighting; we all know it's one of the most brutal, emotional, well-executed brawls in the franchise. I'll go ahead and mention the top quality facial animatronics of the Baragon suit and that awesome shot of him illuminated by burning helicopter debris anyway, though.

The final battle does kinda drag on a little bit; I didn't check the time, but it felt like it took up half the movie. I can see why it's less popular in some quarters. It has plenty of good points, too, but trimming five minutes and tightening things up a little probably would have been a good idea. We probably could've done without Ghidorah being KO'd the second time, too, although Yuri saving him with the Soul Stone was pretty cool.

And again, Kaneko effectively integrates the humans into the final battle. Yuri, Takeda, Commander Tachibana, and various extras are right in the thick of the action throughout, influencing the course of events and being endangered or rescued left and right. Shout out to the stoic officer leading the ground troops, too. There's nothing he can do at any point in the battle, but he holds his position, follows his orders, keeps his men on-task, and dies with honor. He's a fairly significant character, really; there have theoretically been a hundred more just like him in the kaiju genre, but off the top of my head, it's very rare to actually meet them. We see top brass at the command post and aircraft pilots sometimes, but we rarely spend any time in the shoes of the guy that personally leads the tanks into the meat grinder. He's a cool inclusion here.