The "GxK 3/Monsterverse 6" News, Discussion & Speculation Thread

[LSD Jellyfish]

Minus One was successful but the elements of that success isn't something LP can just replicate. The Monsterverse seems to be doing well with its big, loud, dumb Hollywood model. There is no reason to change now. The MV is going to keep being what it is.

I can’t imagine anything as serious (or as good) as Minus One. However, I can very easily imagine the MV having its cake and eating it too.

They can make the next MV film slightly more focused, slightly darker tonally, slightly more character driven, and slightly better story wise, all while maintaining and keeping the over the top action and monster fighting.

I know you don’t like Showa comparisons, but think about it like Vs Megalon to Vs MechaGodzilla or Terror of MechaGodzilla. Hell, Terror of MechaGodzilla is a good example. It kept the same level of farcical monster action as the previous films, but because Honda gave more of a damn about the human drama (amongst other reasons) the film hit pretty hard. Again, I don’t expect a turnaround like that, but I imagine it/hope it’ll be an improvement.

[Cookson]

I do also like the idea of a “The only kaiju who is allowed to kill you is me” kind of team up between Godzilla and Ghidorah. Or a very reluctant one where, if they don’t, both will die.

I like that scenario as a Godzilla fan but the reality is… this situation is only going to happen with Godzilla and KONG now. And really, that storyline just happened in GxK.

[Garzon]

I’m all for bringing back some level of gravitas to the MV. I’m obviously not expecting drama on the level of Minus One, but I’d like for something that doesn’t just feel like an extended Saturday morning cartoon.

[GojiSquid]

I’m all for bringing back some level of gravitas to the MV. I’m obviously not expecting drama on the level of Minus One, but I’d like for something that doesn’t just feel like an extended Saturday morning cartoon.

I think something tonally like Pacific Rim (high octane and a little silly, but still kinda gritty and mostly takes itself seriously) would go very hard and help bring more of a dramatic tone without feeling totally different to the recent films.

[JVM]

As long as it's a Godzilla-Kong teamup, wanting anything serious is a failing battle. I think we're underestimating how much the popularity of the Godzilla-Kong films is the same as the popularity Marvel had some years ago - it's a meme, it's a joke, it's the turn-off-your-brain blockbuster. I know it's not what we want, but we're not the target audience for these things at all. If they split the characters apart again, I could see us getting some more varied tones, but I don't expect that to happen as long as we're married to the team-up of these two specific characters.

[Neogeddon]

I’m all for bringing back some level of gravitas to the MV. I’m obviously not expecting drama on the level of Minus One, but I’d like for something that doesn’t just feel like an extended Saturday morning cartoon.

I think something tonally like Pacific Rim (high octane and a little silly, but still kinda gritty and mostly takes itself seriously) would go very hard and help bring more of a dramatic tone without feeling totally different to the recent films.

In general, I would love to see less cynicism and winking at the audience from "silly" movies. The joke of "isn't this premise wacky? xD isn't this all just so crazy and nonsensical? xD" has beaten the dead horse into dust at this point. Just be sincere for once, cowards.

[MrRockett]

They can easily and probably at this point rightfully get a bit darker, grittier and pull it off well. In the series as a whole G14 and KSI were gritty, in actuality if you omit the dumb jokes, KOTM is quite gritty (please though don't mistake gritty for everything in the movie is also literally darker) then you have the two GVK which gets a little lighter, but also the human plot also takes a toss, then KXG which while not full send Showa, some of the more campy moves...Suplex, toss to tail whip (unless it was frozen Skar, that would have been better) it's hit the campy apex IMO, and it's not a slam...
Now give us a movie that is more grim in nature...what I liked about KSI was the story mattered, Kong was not fighting in the dark, still a few funny and acceptable lines.
Basically give me KSI with Godzilla as the feature and little to no hollow earth unless the new threat causes harm to the inhabitants there which ignites Godzilla's rage.

I'd even sacrifice a Mothra...new threat, kills titans, severely wounds Kong, maybe kills Shimo and a dead Mothra (We know she can come back) Godzilla surveys the carnage and since he's always evolving his rage cooks his skin to where he's black (which happens to make his hyde even more durable for reasons....

I don't need a happy Godzilla or a dancing one, but imagine, he's attacked and left for dead (underestimated) and he discovers the slaughter...you see areas of web hanging from the scenery, some frozen areas, Shimo, Mothra dead, Iwi temple destroyed, a few dead apes and Kong looking like he's not long for this world, Godzilla surveying everything, camera comes around to his face and you see this trembling of rage, he lets out the roar of roars and heads out to the surface to get his revenge....

They can call it....Godzilla's Revenge.... As a gag reel he gets to the surface and sees a chubby kid in short shorts jumping on the bumper of a car...Godzilla shakes his head and goes back down to Hollow Earth...

[HeiseiGodzilla117]

In general, I would love to see less cynicism and winking at the audience from "silly" movies. The joke of "isn't this premise wacky? xD isn't this all just so crazy and nonsensical? xD" has beaten the dead horse into dust at this point. Just be sincere for once, cowards.

You hit the nail on the head. That doesn't mean everything has to be dark or overly serious. But so many Hollywood adaptations of various IPs these days have to lean into "goofy" elements to communicate to the audience that they're in on the joke and know that the idea is "dumb." It's like somewhere in the last decade these movies decided they just wanted to beat Friedberg and Seltzer to the punch and be parodies of themselves.

[JVM]

I've always figured the point of the 'isn't this wacky' jokes were more of a ploy to show how the "average" person would actually react to such a situation in the real world; it's been muted in recent years but it used to be a common complaint that sci-fi and realistic fantasy films didn't have characters who were as "realistic" (sometimes basically just cynical) to the audiences. Han Solo was a common point of comparison, and his mockery of the Force is a specific scene I'd see invoked as what sci-fi needed more of, and I think in some ways that's exactly what it is. I do find the execution of such jokes can be cringey sometimes, but I view them as kind of an appeal to the casual audience who isn't genre savvy - sort of like a reverse easter egg.

[GojiSquid]

I've always figured the point of the 'isn't this wacky' jokes were more of a ploy to show how the "average" person would actually react to such a situation in the real world; it's been muted in recent years but it used to be a common complaint that sci-fi and realistic fantasy films didn't have characters who were as "realistic" (sometimes basically just cynical) to the audiences. Han Solo was a common point of comparison, and his mockery of the Force is a specific scene I'd see invoked as what sci-fi needed more of, and I think in some ways that's exactly what it is. I do find the execution of such jokes can be cringey sometimes, but I view them as kind of an appeal to the casual audience who isn't genre savvy - sort of like a reverse easter egg.

I think it's also that a lot of general comedy is being self-aware of the outlandish/out-of-ordinary. A lot of comedy genre films have gags where the audience is supposed to get humor from how absurd they are (ex: most slapstick), dark humor relies on making light of taboo topics kept out of ordinary conversation, hell if you have a weird/shitty boss you and a coworker might crack a joke about his weirdness. This is why straight-men or 'hey isn't this silly' jokes are so common in these movies, especially if they're trying to go for more of an action-comedy tone (like most of the MCU) rather than an action-drama.

[MrRockett]

I've always figured the point of the 'isn't this wacky' jokes were more of a ploy to show how the "average" person would actually react to such a situation in the real world; it's been muted in recent years but it used to be a common complaint that sci-fi and realistic fantasy films didn't have characters who were as "realistic" (sometimes basically just cynical) to the audiences. Han Solo was a common point of comparison, and his mockery of the Force is a specific scene I'd see invoked as what sci-fi needed more of, and I think in some ways that's exactly what it is. I do find the execution of such jokes can be cringey sometimes, but I view them as kind of an appeal to the casual audience who isn't genre savvy - sort of like a reverse easter egg.

I think it's also that a lot of general comedy is being self-aware of the outlandish/out-of-ordinary. A lot of comedy genre films have gags where the audience is supposed to get humor from how absurd they are (ex: most slapstick), dark humor relies on making light of taboo topics kept out of ordinary conversation, hell if you have a weird/shitty boss you and a coworker might crack a joke about his weirdness. This is why straight-men or 'hey isn't this silly' jokes are so common in these movies, especially if they're trying to go for more of an action-comedy tone (like most of the MCU) rather than an action-drama.

How I look at situational humor, let's say in context of a here before unknown giant monster appearing, is when you have people looking out and asking "What is it?" or "Where did it come from?" which would happen with some people...now to me a funny response from another onlooker would be "Who gives a shit, you go ahead and stay here and figure it out!" and runs away like a smart person would. What some of the MV jokes have done are more like a response of "Well, since none of us knows what it is, or where it came from, why don't we stand around like a bunch of dumbasses and discuss it"
If you have to try too hard to force comedy into a situation, it doesn't require it. Nervous humor works especially if it aligns with the character. "Why don't we invite him over for a beer...what are you out of your damn mind? " That fit his character, was funny and didn't pull us out like Gonorrhea...

[JVM]

How I look at situational humor, let's say in context of a here before unknown giant monster appearing, is when you have people looking out and asking "What is it?" or "Where did it come from?" which would happen with some people...now to me a funny response from another onlooker would be "Who gives a shit, you go ahead and stay here and figure it out!" and runs away like a smart person would. What some of the MV jokes have done are more like a response of "Well, since none of us knows what it is, or where it came from, why don't we stand around like a bunch of dumbasses and discuss it"

I literally do not see a difference here except your perceptions if one is smart and the other isn't. They both stop to have a pointless conversation in both examples.

[GojiSquid]

How I look at situational humor, let's say in context of a here before unknown giant monster appearing, is when you have people looking out and asking "What is it?" or "Where did it come from?" which would happen with some people...now to me a funny response from another onlooker would be "Who gives a shit, you go ahead and stay here and figure it out!" and runs away like a smart person would. What some of the MV jokes have done are more like a response of "Well, since none of us knows what it is, or where it came from, why don't we stand around like a bunch of dumbasses and discuss it"

I literally do not see a difference here except your perceptions if one is smart and the other isn't. They both stop to have a pointless conversation in both examples.

I do think Rockett's version a) generally plays out in a much shorter time frame, and b) still works to orient the audience to the following stakes and actions. The punchline calls attention to the fact that whatever they're looking at is a threat to their lives, and establishes that they're taking the action of running away from it, helping the film to tee into a chase/escape scene.

[MrRockett]

How I look at situational humor, let's say in context of a here before unknown giant monster appearing, is when you have people looking out and asking "What is it?" or "Where did it come from?" which would happen with some people...now to me a funny response from another onlooker would be "Who gives a shit, you go ahead and stay here and figure it out!" and runs away like a smart person would. What some of the MV jokes have done are more like a response of "Well, since none of us knows what it is, or where it came from, why don't we stand around like a bunch of dumbasses and discuss it"

I literally do not see a difference here except your perceptions if one is smart and the other isn't. They both stop to have a pointless conversation in both examples.

I do think Rockett's version a) generally plays out in a much shorter time frame, and b) still works to orient the audience to the following stakes and actions. The punchline calls attention to the fact that whatever they're looking at is a threat to their lives, and establishes that they're taking the action of running away from it, helping the film to tee into a chase/escape scene.

Right, see my response would be if I saw it I'd be like what the fuck is that, then head in the opposite direction. I wouldn't care what it is or where it came from at that moment. I suppose it's the same for me with any movie when people stand around wondering or asking those questions when most people would peace out. I suppose they are there to be eventual fodder but still.

[JVM]

I literally do not see a difference here except your perceptions if one is smart and the other isn't. They both stop to have a pointless conversation in both examples.

I do think Rockett's version a) generally plays out in a much shorter time frame, and b) still works to orient the audience to the following stakes and actions. The punchline calls attention to the fact that whatever they're looking at is a threat to their lives, and establishes that they're taking the action of running away from it, helping the film to tee into a chase/escape scene.

Right, see my response would be if I saw it I'd be like what the fuck is that, then head in the opposite direction. I wouldn't care what it is or where it came from at that moment. I suppose it's the same for me with any movie when people stand around wondering or asking those questions when most people would peace out. I suppose they are there to be eventual fodder but still.

I think even if you stop to say "Who gives a shit, you go ahead and stay here and figure it out", you're still doing a scene where part of the joke is people stopping and talking, which seems to be what you're trying to critique. Maybe it's the tone of the joke that actually bothers you, which is that speculating on the origin conveys a lack of urgency or plays down the stakes in some way? I'm not trying to be an asshole, it just feels like you're addressing a slightly different problem.

[MrRockett]

I do think Rockett's version a) generally plays out in a much shorter time frame, and b) still works to orient the audience to the following stakes and actions. The punchline calls attention to the fact that whatever they're looking at is a threat to their lives, and establishes that they're taking the action of running away from it, helping the film to tee into a chase/escape scene.

Right, see my response would be if I saw it I'd be like what the fuck is that, then head in the opposite direction. I wouldn't care what it is or where it came from at that moment. I suppose it's the same for me with any movie when people stand around wondering or asking those questions when most people would peace out. I suppose they are there to be eventual fodder but still.

I think even if you stop to say "Who gives a shit, you go ahead and stay here and figure it out", you're still doing a scene where part of the joke is people stopping and talking, which seems to be what you're trying to critique. Maybe it's the tone of the joke that actually bothers you, which is that speculating on the origin conveys a lack of urgency or plays down the stakes in some way? I'm not trying to be an asshole, it just feels like you're addressing a slightly different problem.

I see your point and I suppose it is tone. My point really is the intent of the comment. You come around a corner and see a huge monster in the distance and you have commentary in movies of "What is that or where did it come from" vs coming around the corner and hearing that and saying "F-that, I'm outta here" Yes, a comment is made but with the intent of what most rational people would do instead of stopping and pontificating without much urgency...

That's the word, urgency. That said you know there would be lookie loo's if that were to happen, it's a strange part of human nature.

I took no offense JVM, it's just conversation and personal opinion which I know offends people these days, but I knew you weren't being negative, just trying to understand what I was saying. All good!

[darthzilla99]

Right, see my response would be if I saw it I'd be like what the fuck is that, then head in the opposite direction. I wouldn't care what it is or where it came from at that moment. I suppose it's the same for me with any movie when people stand around wondering or asking those questions when most people would peace out. I suppose they are there to be eventual fodder but still.

I think even if you stop to say "Who gives a shit, you go ahead and stay here and figure it out", you're still doing a scene where part of the joke is people stopping and talking, which seems to be what you're trying to critique. Maybe it's the tone of the joke that actually bothers you, which is that speculating on the origin conveys a lack of urgency or plays down the stakes in some way? I'm not trying to be an asshole, it just feels like you're addressing a slightly different problem.

I see your point and I suppose it is tone. My point really is the intent of the comment. You come around a corner and see a huge monster in the distance and you have commentary in movies of "What is that or where did it come from" vs coming around the corner and hearing that and saying "F-that, I'm outta here" Yes, a comment is made but with the intent of what most rational people would do instead of stopping and pontificating without much urgency...

That's the word, urgency. That said you know there would be lookie loo's if that were to happen, it's a strange part of human nature.

I took no offense JVM, it's just conversation and personal opinion which I know offends people these days, but I knew you weren't being negative, just trying to understand what I was saying. All good!

I think I kinda of get where your coming from. I think in scenes that have exposition on the Kaiju attacking for the first time (and just fiction in general like a powerful antagonist in a super hero movie), the exposition should be done with characters that in a safe position like a military war room or a scientist or mentor character that is like thousands of miles away while watching the news. Realistically, people in the immediate path of destruction are either mostly going to be running out as fast as possible or you have a group who says this is awesome and takes pictures, both of which are realistic types that happens in the real world. Someone explaining and then running is unrealistic for me.

[benj54]

Agree with what’s being said. I understand that people love the Wingard duology - but I don’t see why there’s so much defence for a poorly written/structured script with a hugely outlying tonal issue that dampens any of the impact that a film of such scale should really have. It feels like everyone is too happy to accept the bare minimum with certain franchises nowadays just because iconic characters are doing stuff on screen (not wrong to enjoy them at all). This is not a personal attack on anyone who liked the film (I repeat) it just concerns me as someone whose enjoyment is mainly based on the world-building aspect and character motivations (especially disheartened with how Godzilla has been treated, not even talking about screen time) that this easily could’ve become a rinse and repeat formula until they decided to say they’re going for a darker theme (though the confirmation is out the window now that the person who said that is completely off). So I lost any satisfaction when they almost did an MCU level action by introducing the Hollow Earth, as it seems anything is possible now with the only explanation being ‘well it must have come from the Hollow Earth’. That disappoints me and I hope that the future films regain their trust in the audience instead of spoonfeeding science talk for what is a very thin plot. I’d be super interested in a grounded character-based MonsterVerse movie with an indie director in the future; as it seems general audiences are becoming more accustomed to enjoying those kind of films (Letterboxd, TikTok, they’re pretty widely appreciated nearly everywhere by this current generation). I still absolutely want fun moments in the coming films but at a point everything just seems like it has to be a joke for memes or to be a ‘popcorn flick’ because there wasn’t much willingness to try and draw the audience into a narrative. If you think that seeing Kong get a toothache and a father complex was impressive then wait until you see *overrated 90’s film*!

Also wanted to quickly mention that I’m worried with the amount of people that beg for a new previous Toho villain for every new movie. Once again that’s fine (this is a completely chill post). But I really want to have new and fresh possibilities for villains. It’s not like the characters you love so much didn’t have to be created first! Of course it would be cool a couple of times over potentially future instalments - maybe not too often. I’m like 100% sure this is also MCU influence because I’ve read around 1,000 fan concepts for the next MonsterVerse films and nearly all included phases, post-credit scene reveals with Toho character revivals, plus the ‘Destroyah will be the final film and kill Godzilla (again) like in Godzilla vs Destroyah but Destroyah will also die (again) but Godzilla’s new son will live (again, scares that there’s word they’ve bought the rights now because then we’re basically just following Kong’s exact story from GXK with a sprinkle of different personality) it will be like the Endgame of the MonsterVerse’. Don’t get why in a franchise that isn’t following a linear narrative and is consistently doing above-average at box office needs to have an ending so soon. My favourite thing about the MV is the different directors, possibilities, and routes that can be explored with such a flexible universe! Just really want there to be consistent engagement with the story… I’d love an actual Godzilla character study for a film.

[MrRockett]

What I'd like to see is like benj54 stated, a dive into Godzilla. At some point it's determined that they may indeed have to rid themselves of the Titans, with Monarch even conceding that even incidental destruction is a problem. So they've been delving into all the data they have, especially with Godzilla. Being the alpha and most indestructible creature poses an interesting problem. They do figure out a potential "nuclear option" if they need it but in the midst of all this, you have a world ending threat beyond what was touched with Ghidorah. Humans have no chance and Godzilla has to save the earth. With the military/Monarch ready to put him down after saving the planet once again, weak and vulnerable from the battle...the humans realize that his imposition is worth it and they let him carry on.
It would be like "Ok he's beaten Bagan, he's wounded, now's the time...they have him in their sights, ready to push the button and they get a call from the President who along with other world leaders, stay his execution." Doesn't mean they don't keep the option open if he goes haywire, but as long as his focus is on keeping balance...he will continue to exist.
What's great is that there isn't 2-3 movies a year, one every 3 years works for me. I love the whole franchise but even I need to turn off the Godzilla channel on Pluto TV every once in a while. I will say though, in TOMG, the American version omitting Katsura's suicide really changes MG shutting down, the Japanese version is much more fulfilling (except the obvious patch on her arm where the "wiring" is exposed...LOL"

I'd like a more serious/threat tone vs the adventure tone we've had the last two movies (and I like them a lot) but variety is I think, the key to MV longevity.

[Neogeddon]

(big post)

Holy moly, I agree with literally all of this. Can I hire you to post for me?

I do feel like the tide is turning with every film franchise trying to be Diet Marvel, at least, in general. I'm cautiously hopeful that the next one is different. Wingard's films are fun* but compared to the rest of the MV, (anecdotally) I don't really hear people in the general audience talk about GvK at all. And GxK chatter is already petering out. 2014 and KotM seemed to have more staying power. If they're building out a "Something for Everyone" franchise, there's plenty of styles left to try.

*personally they feel like the equivalent of just watching cutscene compilations from a hypothetical MV video game, but "fun" is what they get called the most so sure lol