Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

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Kaijuking101
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Kaijuking101 »

Nagoda wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:10 am
Kong nearly died from brief exposure to it, Ghidorah was undamaged by significant exposure to it, so even if there is a power difference, it balances out and still skews towards Ghidorah being much more durable.
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Never heard of exaggeration to support your point?

I'd also like to add that the burn mark implies that further exposure would have been lethal and at least badly injured Kong, at the positioning where the beam hit, if it had sustained itself for longer it might've punched into Kong and superheated his vitals, effectively killing Kong. So nearly dying isn't completely inaccurate, even if admittedly an exaggeration.

Also doesn't Discord not host its images anymore? After a day, the link to the image dies, so Discord is no longer a really good source of image hosting? Off topic, but it might be better to use another site for image hosting if you want the images to be accessible in the future.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Nagoda »

Kaijuking101 wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:21 am
Nagoda wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:10 am
Kong nearly died from brief exposure to it, Ghidorah was undamaged by significant exposure to it, so even if there is a power difference, it balances out and still skews towards Ghidorah being much more durable.
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Never heard of exaggeration to support your point?
I thought this whole thread was all about the facts and logical mathematical conclusions from all the charts and scientific specifications of topics like sublimation instead of vaporization?
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Kaijuking101 »

Nagoda wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:37 am
Kaijuking101 wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:21 am Never heard of exaggeration to support your point?
I thought this whole thread was all about the facts and logical mathematical conclusions from all the charts and scientific specifications of topics like sublimation instead of vaporization?
Nope, dunno where you would've ever gotten that conclusion :D

You can't expect consistency or rigid standards after all, that's not how humans work.

Added in 2 minutes 3 seconds:
Besides, the post itself states that despite the exaggeration, the conclusion derived is still based off evidence, so no gotcha for you?
Last edited by Kaijuking101 on Sun May 19, 2024 8:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Nagoda »

Kaijuking101 wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:43 am
Nagoda wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:37 am
Kaijuking101 wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:21 am Never heard of exaggeration to support your point?
I thought this whole thread was all about the facts and logical mathematical conclusions from all the charts and scientific specifications of topics like sublimation instead of vaporization?
Nope, dunno where you would've ever gotten that conclusion :D

You can't expect consistency or rigid standards after all, that's not how humans work.

Added in 2 minutes 3 seconds:
Besides, the post itself states that despite the exaggeration, the conclusion derived is still based off evidence, so no gotcha for you?
Yet your evidence is for longer than what he got hit by. Therefore, that wouldn’t be a brief exposure, but a longer exposure blast kinda like how all the other monsters Godzilla killed. He would just burn a little faster than the MUTO. Nearly Dying implies he is near death, which he does nearly die when he got his chest caved in later in the fight, but at that moment, it was less near death and more annoyance. You stated Brief Exposure nearly killed him as exaggeration, which was false, and now you are saying it requires a longer exposure than what we see in the movie to fatally injure him. Therefore Gotcha, as you yourself have admired that brief exposure wouldn’t kill him, but a longer exposure would.

Also I have no idea what actually is going on in this thread, I just saw a bunch of charts and science stuff. Might go see some of the other stuff on here to post random movie gifs.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Itachi Amami »

Kaijuking101 wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 7:59 pm That's...not what I've been arguing? I never said Godzilla's beam shot up ridiculously in power, I'm only suggesting a slight power increase, the main factor increasing the beam's lethality is still it's higher energy density due to a less wider surface area transferring the same amount of energy. I DON'T believe this energy increase was significant or insane. I simply think the beam is at least as strong as before, maybe slightly stronger. Like a few percentage, maybe 10%? Nothing significant at all, that's barely any more power. Kong nearly died from brief exposure to it, Ghidorah was undamaged by significant exposure to it, so even if there is a power difference, it balances out and still skews towards Ghidorah being much more durable.
I had a look at water nozzle videos to analyze the difference in how pressure works, and it seems to conform to my hypothesis. When more spread out, they don't seem to have as much force than when they are narrower, assuming power is the same, for a visual reference.

Also, Skar King never had Shimo in the past. Shimo fighting Godzilla in the past is entirely separate from Godzilla fighting and soloing Skar King and his army. Skar King only found Shimo when he was locked up, for some reason. Although I would need the novel to completely confirm this. Anyways until then, this all really is just speculation so I'd drop this until I get the scans I need.

Yeah, I'm not disputing any of this except for the parts in red.
ENERGY = POWER * TIME. This is a formula we all learn in high school physics, and frankly is pretty basic and intuitive. POWER is energy per second, time is in seconds, ENERGY is the total energy being poured out. All Godzilla increasing charge time would do is increase energy, as (POWER * 1) < (POWER * 2). It's why charge time doesn't matter, and I want to get this out of the way first. Because POWER is what really matters in the long run, as greater power means greater energy. It's why armor can tank 10 .50 cal bullets but not a single 30mm bullet, they have the same overall energy (200 KJ) but one delivers it all at once whilst the other delivers it in 10 20 KJ packets. The energy is the same, but the power isn't. It's not the best example, but it should illustrate why power is more important than overall energy.

With size, I can easily go the same route and dispute this with the size being a stylistic choice like you did with the wisps. Look at this vs look at this. Godzilla's clearly spewing out more stuff in the former scene compared to the Kiss of Death, but which one do you think he's putting more into?
I swear GvK has the most Godzilla beam firing scenes ever in the MonsterVerse pre GxK. But I digress.
Compare Godzilla's so called charged ray against the Hollow Earth Driller. Obviously the HE Driller is much more powerful, but visually? Well, there's not much difference. The HE Driller is more blue and has greater intensity too. You can see how solid it is, how blue, how you can't really see any flickers. The beam also isn't expanding as much as the charged ray. So is the charged ray superior to the Hollow Earth Driller? Can Ghidorah tank that?
Look how spread out the ray used against MechaGodzilla is vs [ur=https://youtu.be/3MNWGN905Co?t=217]literally any scene of Godzilla using his beam at night[/url], you see that the beam used against MechaGodzilla is more spread out, like the KOTM one, whereas Godzilla's nighttime beams aren't, they're almost consistently the same size. Does this imply Godzilla is spitting out more energy when low on reserves against MechaGodzilla?
Point being, size isn't too great a reference for how much Godzilla is pouring into his beam. Although I guess it is somewhat valid, I simply don't think it's a very accurate measure of beam power.

I'm going to go ahead and state this isn't what I meant by wisps. You see that Godzilla's beam is a lot less homogenous in Antarctica compared to Boston, with a single central beam with a ton of "wisps" aka flames surrounding it, whilst in Boston the beam seems a lot more solid. This is the same in Hong Kong as well, the beam is less solid against MechaGodzilla compared to against Kong. This is more solid than this, for instance. You can't really see as many fluctuations in the beam. This is even more solid than the prior two instances, and are when Godzilla is on higher energy reserves. The color of this beam is more uniformly homogenous compared to this which you can see the slight fluctuations in color compared to the other beam. It's a bit of a stretch again, but it's still representative of what I was trying to convey with the wisp argument. Not how spread out the beam is, but the colorations.

How very convenient and considerate of them that just a few hours after I used the video for most of my references, it gets taken down. Just for your reference, here's the feat I'm talking about. She does seem to have enough strength to toss either Ghidorah or MechaGodzilla if she gets pinned by them given how Godzilla does the same and she yeets him without trouble. In Brazil, under normal gravity conditions.

Hopefully this should express my thoughts on the matter well, this has been quite the interesting debate so I thank you for that, and as soon as I get some more scans I would like to continue to discuss more points I haven't addressed as well.
I agree with most of what you said in the first few sections of your post, so I'm just responding to the bits I quoted here. I will say that in Pensacola Godzilla does appear to melt part of a pretty big metal structure outside the Apex Facility, but it's a bit hard to tell exactly how much of that was done at once given the blurriness.

1. The phrasing you used in terms of the power difference came off to me like you were suggesting a massive difference in power, I apologize if I misinterpreted that. I also should have made it more clear I was talking about Skar King using Shimo against Godzilla during the events of the movie. He had zero knowledge about the events of the MV movies, so his plans are based on the Godzilla he and his empire fought, who wasn't supercharged. The density thing is more relevant when talking about the wisp stuff, so I'll tackle it there.

2. The MV has pretty consistently shown that the charge-time of Godzilla's energy matters quite a bit. The most obvious examples are the Hollow Earth driller and his final nuclear pulse as Thermo Godzilla, though other examples can be seen in the post-2014 movies. Along with visuals, there's supporting evidence that his most significant blasts narrative-wise are almost always charged-up.

3. I'm not sure why you used the two Atomic Breaths in 2014 as examples for your point on size. The Kiss of Death doing more damage is because it went straight down the throat and hit FeMUTO's much squishier internals. It doesn't have to be stronger to do that, so the lesser charge-time isn't really a factor. The driller being smaller also makes sense since Godzilla is only trying to force open a hole in one spot, he doesn't have a reason to make it any bigger. It shows that size isn't the end-all-be-all, sure, but I never said it was. The Hollow Earth driller is also an outlier in various ways for Godzilla, so it being an exception isn't exactly new. For the last comparison, Godzilla is pouring every ounce he can into that beam so he doesn't get overpowered. In Florida he was just blowing shit up trying to find a threat. He didn't have a reason to use as much energy given said threat hadn't appeared yet and blowing buildings up isn't exactly hard for him. Even though his total reserves were lower against Mechagodzilla, I do think it's safe to say he was using more energy in the clash.

4. These examples on solidity work in a vacuum, but become weird when looking at their contexts. The first two are beams where Godzilla is fighting for his life and has every reason to pour out as much energy as he can, while the latter is just a random beam fired at Kong, who he doesn't view at that same threat level. The former two both being bigger supports size as the main factor in strength and goes along with this narrative importance. Solidity being the main factor doesn't really fit the circumstances of these scenes, whereas the size difference does. The two 2019 clips don't have these issues, but we also have a built-in explanation in Godzilla getting supercharged. There doesn't really need to be an additional rationalization, though it is valid for those two examples in particular. But I don't think that's enough to really build a case around.

5. I think you accidentally posted the wrong link for this, since the video just has a guy talking about the movie with some stills unrelated to what we're talking about. Regardless, I do think Shimo can knock around Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla, but not reliably when knocked on the ground. She has to waste time using her legs to prop herself back up while getting pinned down, so wildly waving them isn't really viable. As mentioned before, her beam is something the team can (and probably will make sure to) pretty easily shut down.
Last edited by Itachi Amami on Sun May 19, 2024 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Kaijuking101 »

Nagoda wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:51 am Yet your evidence is for longer than what he got hit by. Therefore, that wouldn’t be a brief exposure, but a longer exposure blast kinda like how all the other monsters Godzilla killed. He would just burn a little faster than the MUTO. Nearly Dying implies he is near death, which he does nearly die when he got his chest caved in later in the fight, but at that moment, it was less near death and more annoyance. You stated Brief Exposure nearly killed him as exaggeration, which was false, and now you are saying it requires a longer exposure than what we see in the movie to fatally injure him. Therefore Gotcha, as you yourself have admired that brief exposure wouldn’t kill him, but a longer exposure would.

Also I have no idea what actually is going on in this thread, I just saw a bunch of charts and science stuff. Might go see some of the other stuff on here to post random movie gifs.
I mean sure, if that's the way you interpret nearly dying, then yeah, conceded.

Personally my definition of nearly dying was coming close to death, at least in the context of this scene, so I can see where the misunderstanding comes from. Also I apologize for my earlier rudeness, sorry for that.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Nagoda »

Kaijuking101 wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 3:54 pm
Nagoda wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:51 am Yet your evidence is for longer than what he got hit by. Therefore, that wouldn’t be a brief exposure, but a longer exposure blast kinda like how all the other monsters Godzilla killed. He would just burn a little faster than the MUTO. Nearly Dying implies he is near death, which he does nearly die when he got his chest caved in later in the fight, but at that moment, it was less near death and more annoyance. You stated Brief Exposure nearly killed him as exaggeration, which was false, and now you are saying it requires a longer exposure than what we see in the movie to fatally injure him. Therefore Gotcha, as you yourself have admired that brief exposure wouldn’t kill him, but a longer exposure would.

Also I have no idea what actually is going on in this thread, I just saw a bunch of charts and science stuff. Might go see some of the other stuff on here to post random movie gifs.
I mean sure, if that's the way you interpret nearly dying, then yeah, conceded.

Personally my definition of nearly dying was coming close to death, at least in the context of this scene, so I can see where the misunderstanding comes from. Also I apologize for my earlier rudeness, sorry for that.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Kaijuking101 »

Itachi Amami wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 11:58 am 5. I think you accidentally posted the wrong link for this, since the video just has a guy talking about the movie with some stills unrelated to what we're talking about. Regardless, I do think Shimo can knock around Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla, but not reliably when knocked on the ground. She has to waste time using her legs to prop herself back up while getting pinned down, so wildly waving them isn't really viable. As mentioned before, her beam is something the team can (and probably will make sure to) pretty easily shut down.
I'll address the other points sometime soon, but since this is the second time the video doesn't seem, to work, here's yet another video all to show the scene I wanted to show here, Shimo throws Godzilla off her with zero leverage from when she was tackled onto the ground. Hopefully this time it works.

Added in 1 hour 56 minutes 28 seconds:
Itachi Amami wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 11:58 am 1. The phrasing you used in terms of the power difference came off to me like you were suggesting a massive difference in power, I apologize if I misinterpreted that. I also should have made it more clear I was talking about Skar King using Shimo against Godzilla during the events of the movie. He had zero knowledge about the events of the MV movies, so his plans are based on the Godzilla he and his empire fought, who wasn't supercharged. The density thing is more relevant when talking about the wisp stuff, so I'll tackle it there.
Thanks for the clarification.

I don't think Skar King assuming he needs Shimo to take down Godzilla is really an anti-feat for Shimo either, Skar King and his army are massively outclassed by Godzilla and Skar King wouldn't exactly know how strong Shimo is to a precise level where he thinks Shimo and his army are what's needed to take down Godzilla, regardless, this is at best tangentially related to the topic at hand and without the proper scans from the novel I wouldn't like to continue this part of the discussion at least until I get data that adds something new to the discussion.
Itachi Amami wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 11:58 am 2. The MV has pretty consistently shown that the charge-time of Godzilla's energy matters quite a bit. The most obvious examples are the Hollow Earth driller and his final nuclear pulse as Thermo Godzilla, though other examples can be seen in the post-2014 movies. Along with visuals, there's supporting evidence that his most significant blasts narrative-wise are almost always charged-up.
Yeah, because ENERGY = POWER * TIME. The formula that explains why charge time matters. Godzilla is allowed to build up more energy in his spines, allowing him to spew more stuff out. For longer. I would continue but as I will state below, I don't think there's much merit continuing the discussion until there's something new to be introduced to both sides.
Itachi Amami wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 11:58 am 3. I'm not sure why you used the two Atomic Breaths in 2014 as examples for your point on size. The Kiss of Death doing more damage is because it went straight down the throat and hit FeMUTO's much squishier internals. It doesn't have to be stronger to do that, so the lesser charge-time isn't really a factor. The driller being smaller also makes sense since Godzilla is only trying to force open a hole in one spot, he doesn't have a reason to make it any bigger. It shows that size isn't the end-all-be-all, sure, but I never said it was. The Hollow Earth driller is also an outlier in various ways for Godzilla, so it being an exception isn't exactly new. For the last comparison, Godzilla is pouring every ounce he can into that beam so he doesn't get overpowered. In Florida he was just blowing shit up trying to find a threat. He didn't have a reason to use as much energy given said threat hadn't appeared yet and blowing buildings up isn't exactly hard for him. Even though his total reserves were lower against Mechagodzilla, I do think it's safe to say he was using more energy in the clash.
For the 2014 examples, conceded.
For the Hollow Earth example, the Driller was funky anyways so also conceded.
For the last comparison, I actually would say agree to disagree. Godzilla is forcing more energy out or using a greater percentage of his reserves is something I guess I can buy, even if I currently still don't think that way yet, but the ray being stronger than the more solid blue beam he used against is something I have to hard disagree with, maybe in proportion to his energy reserves but not in terms of total energy. To me, the visual differences in the beams clearly indicate Godzilla's lower energy reserves visually and even if your arguments have convinced me to be more hestiant in applying this logic to other films, within the context of GvK and especially the Hong Kong fight on its own, I believe this logic still stands. Hell, when Godzilla fired into the axe vs when he fired against MechaGodzilla, there's another difference showing Godzilla was pushing all his atomic energy in a last ditch effort to charge the axe to stop MechaGodzilla vs not putting as much against the Proton Scream, a more usual amount. It was visually conveyed.
Itachi Amami wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 11:58 am 4. These examples on solidity work in a vacuum, but become weird when looking at their contexts. The first two are beams where Godzilla is fighting for his life and has every reason to pour out as much energy as he can, while the latter is just a random beam fired at Kong, who he doesn't view at that same threat level. The former two both being bigger supports size as the main factor in strength and goes along with this narrative importance. Solidity being the main factor doesn't really fit the circumstances of these scenes, whereas the size difference does. The two 2019 clips don't have these issues, but we also have a built-in explanation in Godzilla getting supercharged. There doesn't really need to be an additional rationalization, though it is valid for those two examples in particular. But I don't think that's enough to really build a case around.
I think Godzilla having higher and greater energy reserves during GvK compared to even KOTM is something that could explain why Godzilla could perhaps use greater power in his random beams than during KOTM. But I don't think we're going to be making further headway into this point of discussion, so I would propose we currently agree to disagree. I might want to leave room for returning to this discussion sometime in the future, but as is it doesn't seem that either of us are really going to be fully convincing the other side of our viewpoints on the strength of Godzilla's beam here and there and whatnot, at least for base Godzilla, so unless there's something new to add I don't think we should continue arguing in circles.

BRIEF EDIT: Made some quick Reddit research, and apparently one of the visual designers states he believes GvK Godzilla is stronger than King Ghidorah whereas we know KOTM Godzilla is equal, so it's not like my argument on how the visuals seem to portray GvK as stronger doesn't have any merit, even if I personally would be hesitant to take this completely at face value especially given how unreliable and stupid authorial statements can be.
La Pegasus wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 7:29 pm The issue with "Godzilla was badly outclassed" thing is that IIRC I didn't see any sources for this claim, and even if it's true, there's a reason why Shimo is stuck in the Hollow Earth and Godzilla is the King of the Monsters. And as far as what's implied, Godzilla didn't have outside help.

So I really have to question the whole "Godzilla was outclassed" thing when Godzilla was the one who ended up winning in their 1v1
Image
After searching online, I've found some screencaps of the novelisation of GxK. Not specific sections, but enough to get the point across. For reference, Shimo is referred to as Monster H or the Ice Monster, and it states she bested Godzilla before. Kong, who fought both Base Godzilla & Evolved Godzilla, states Shimo was stronger. That's literally the wording used. Un-supercharged Evolved Godzilla is called a middleweight in comparison to Shimo being called a heavyweight.

This also is stuff Itachi should see, the novelisation really leans into Shimo being a whole other tier from even normal Evolved Godzilla, let alone normal Godzilla and King Ghidorah who are easily below Evolved Godzilla quite a decent bit.
Image
The fight between Shimo & supercharged Evolved Godzilla is also stated to be a tossup in the novelization.

I couldn't find the particular scans for base Godzilla being outclassed by Shimo, am still waiting for those to be delivered, but these should sate the need to evidence to verify or at least justify my claims.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Itachi Amami »

Kaijuking101 wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 8:08 am I'll address the other points sometime soon, but since this is the second time the video doesn't seem, to work, here's yet another video all to show the scene I wanted to show here, Shimo throws Godzilla off her with zero leverage from when she was tackled onto the ground. Hopefully this time it works.

I don't think Skar King assuming he needs Shimo to take down Godzilla is really an anti-feat for Shimo either, Skar King and his army are massively outclassed by Godzilla and Skar King wouldn't exactly know how strong Shimo is to a precise level where he thinks Shimo and his army are what's needed to take down Godzilla, regardless, this is at best tangentially related to the topic at hand and without the proper scans from the novel I wouldn't like to continue this part of the discussion at least until I get data that adds something new to the discussion.

Yeah, because ENERGY = POWER * TIME. The formula that explains why charge time matters. Godzilla is allowed to build up more energy in his spines, allowing him to spew more stuff out. For longer. I would continue but as I will state below, I don't think there's much merit continuing the discussion until there's something new to be introduced to both sides.

For the 2014 examples, conceded.
For the Hollow Earth example, the Driller was funky anyways so also conceded.
For the last comparison, I actually would say agree to disagree. Godzilla is forcing more energy out or using a greater percentage of his reserves is something I guess I can buy, even if I currently still don't think that way yet, but the ray being stronger than the more solid blue beam he used against is something I have to hard disagree with, maybe in proportion to his energy reserves but not in terms of total energy. To me, the visual differences in the beams clearly indicate Godzilla's lower energy reserves visually and even if your arguments have convinced me to be more hestiant in applying this logic to other films, within the context of GvK and especially the Hong Kong fight on its own, I believe this logic still stands. Hell, when Godzilla fired into the axe vs when he fired against MechaGodzilla, there's another difference showing Godzilla was pushing all his atomic energy in a last ditch effort to charge the axe to stop MechaGodzilla vs not putting as much against the Proton Scream, a more usual amount. It was visually conveyed.

I think Godzilla having higher and greater energy reserves during GvK compared to even KOTM is something that could explain why Godzilla could perhaps use greater power in his random beams than during KOTM. But I don't think we're going to be making further headway into this point of discussion, so I would propose we currently agree to disagree. I might want to leave room for returning to this discussion sometime in the future, but as is it doesn't seem that either of us are really going to be fully convincing the other side of our viewpoints on the strength of Godzilla's beam here and there and whatnot, at least for base Godzilla, so unless there's something new to add I don't think we should continue arguing in circles.

BRIEF EDIT: Made some quick Reddit research, and apparently one of the visual designers states he believes GvK Godzilla is stronger than King Ghidorah[/url] whereas we know KOTM Godzilla is equal, so it's not like my argument on how the visuals seem to portray GvK as stronger doesn't have any merit, even if I personally would be hesitant to take this completely at face value especially given how unreliable and stupid authorial statements can be.

After searching online, I've found some screencaps of the novelisation of GxK. Not specific sections, but enough to get the point across. For reference, Shimo is referred to as Monster H[] or the Ice Monster, and it states she bested Godzilla before. Kong, who fought both Base Godzilla & Evolved Godzilla, states Shimo was stronger. That's literally the wording used. Un-supercharged Evolved Godzilla is called a middleweight in comparison to Shimo being called a heavyweight.

This also is stuff Itachi should see, the novelisation really leans into Shimo being a whole other tier from even normal Evolved Godzilla, let alone normal Godzilla and King Ghidorah who are easily below Evolved Godzilla quite a decent bit.

The fight between Shimo & supercharged Evolved Godzilla is also stated to be a tossup in the novelization.

I couldn't find the particular scans for base Godzilla being outclassed by Shimo, am still waiting for those to be delivered, but these should sate the need to evidence to verify or at least justify my claims.
This was the scene I was thinking of, it's definitely Shimo's most impressive feat of raw strength. However, it's never repeated at any other point. Whether she's kicking Godzilla earlier or tackling him at several points, he's never sent flying quite like this. It's not so far out of her general strength range to be dismissed as an unusable outlier but I do think it's not totally reliable to say she can just perform it whenever. In any case, I do think she can kick away the likes of Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla individually, but both of them and the MUTOs will be a lot harder to fend off. If she's face-down on the ground, that strategy's also out the window.

1. I brought up this point on Skar King and Shimo to dispute the claim I thought you were making about Evolved Godzilla's power increase. Any sort of comparison between Shimo and pre-supercharged Godzilla would dispute the massive gap I mistakenly assumed you were saying. With that misconception cleared up, this definitely isn't an anti-feat for Shimo, completely agree on that.

2. Not disputing the real-world science behind this, I just think the MV has time play more of a factor than it does irl. There's a lot of narrative and cinematic framing around blasts with greater charge-time, even if the visuals don't always match up to that.

3. For the last point, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree since there is evidence on both sides (visual versus narrative). The Axe point definitely supports your case, though I will say that Godzilla largely avoided using his Ray after the beam clash with Mechagodzilla, so he could have gotten some energy back. But that's very headcanon-y, so take it with a grain of salt.

4. The KoTM Vs. GvK situation has always been a bit weird given the lack of information in the movies themselves. GvK Godzilla is clearly more capable overall, but it's hard to really quantify by how much and for what reason. I think the evidence I laid out for those specific examples makes sense, but I get where you're coming from on the overall comparison.

5. I tend to take the novelization stuff with a grain of salt given how they're literally made to hype up the events of the movie. Bringing it up is fine, obviously, but the way Shimo is put over just doesn't seem to gel with what she actually does in the movie, at least to me.
Last edited by Itachi Amami on Mon May 20, 2024 5:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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