Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

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Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Kaijuking101 »

The Sub Zero Destroyer

vs

The One Who Is Many
The Ultimate Destroyer
The Flying Electromagnetic Monster
The Primordial Parasitic Monster

Arena: Sector City Harbor (Kamen Rider: Memory of Heroez)

Rules:
Scaled. Godzilla is the same height as a human and all kaiju are scaled proportionally to Godzilla.
Fight to death, incap or KO.
No retreat.
MUTO's EMP DOES NOT affect MechaGodzilla.

Verdict:
Even with the numbers against her, I still find myself leaning Shimo. She's insanely tough, no-selling Evolved Godzilla's normal Atomic Breath and even the charged up Atomic Breath getting tanked, with Evolved Godzilla's ray being at least 2x stronger than his base ray, means she'd casually ignore the Proton Scream or King Ghidorah's much weaker Triple Gravity Beams. She's able to match Evolved Godzilla physically, meaning she'd also be able to tussle with MechaGodzilla and King Ghidorah and outmatch the MUTOs by far, and not getting hurt at all by Godzilla's physicals implies she should be fine against the MUTOs' stabbing implements. Finally, her freezing has immense range and she was freezing massive iceberg sized chunks large enough for her to comfortably walk on, and she's heavily implied to have frozen King Ghidorah in the past + be so strong Godzilla considered himself no match for her in the novelisation of GxK, so given she fought King Ghidorah before she should freeze him off the bat and take out the MUTOs as collateral damage, and she's strong enough to handle the MUTOs even if she doesn't freeze them given how G14, the weakest Godzilla and a Godzilla not at full capacity, given G19 is base Godzilla and G14 is a weakened, low energy version, and that version could handle the MUTOs, she should be able to handle them at the same time as MechaGodzilla. Based on the BEAST Glove resisting freezing, one could argue given it was made off MechaGodzilla that MechaG can resist Shimo's freezing, but MechaG is also frailer than Godzilla and should fall apart against Shimo's immense physicality and MechaG also lacks any options for really hurting Shimo.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Itachi Amami »

I'd wager decent odds that Ghidorah or Mechagodzilla alone could beat a controlled Shimo. Leaving her uncontrolled, teaming those guys up, and adding the MUTOs means she's just screwed.

Not only has Shimo never used her beam without getting ordered to do it by someone, it's only hit practically immobile targets. Only FeMUTO is susceptible to getting hit by it after the team sees what it does. That leaves Shimo awkwardly trying to shove into the opposition as her only real strategy, something Godzilla was never really pressured by. Ghidorah and HokMUTO can also divide her attention between sky and land, leaving her even less sure of what to do. It doesn't help that Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla might already know about the beam, and can give the MUTOs that info ahead of time. If that happens, the surprise factor I mentioned earlier doesn't even come into play.

Shimo's one saving grace is durability, which will definitely buy her time. But without any reliable way to make use of that window, she's just going to get worn down.
Last edited by Itachi Amami on Tue May 14, 2024 12:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Breakdown »

Itachi Amami wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 12:32 pm I'd wager decent odds that Ghidorah or Mechagodzilla alone could beat a controlled Shimo. Leaving her uncontrolled, teaming those guys up, and adding the MUTOs means she's just screwed.

Not only has Shimo never used her beam without getting ordered to do it by someone, it's only hit practically immobile targets. Only FeMUTO is susceptible to getting hit by it after the team sees what it does. That leaves Shimo awkwardly trying to shove into the opposition as her only real strategy, something Godzilla was never really pressured by. Ghidorah and HokMUTO can also divide her attention between sky and land, leaving her even less sure of what to do. It doesn't help that Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla might already know about the beam, and can give the MUTOs that info ahead of time. If that happens, the surprise factor I mentioned earlier doesn't even come into play.

Shimo's one saving grace is durability, which will definitely buy her time. But without any reliable way to make use of that window, she's just going to get worn down.
I agree with all this. Ghidorah and MechaGodzilla being able to direct the other Titans means Shimo is going to get straight up overwhelmed from all sides.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by GmkGoji »

Shimo's in a rough spot initially, but I think she can win, especially as the fight drags out. Both Muto's are getting one-shot by either Shimo just....running through them or an ice breath.
Ghidorah isn't faring well either since he has a very bad history with ice.
Mechagodzilla's punches and proton scream might daze and knock her back a tad, but he too won't take an ice beam to the face well, nor will he be faring much better against Shimo's cqc, to which he'll be broken apart like legos.

Overall, Shimo's just too strong and durable for the Muto's/Mechagodzilla to do much, and once they fall, Ghidorah's getting put into an ice cube again. Assuming Shimo doesn't just, tear all of his heads off.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Itachi Amami »

Assuming Shimo froze Ghidorah, she almost certainly was in a state more akin to when she got controlled by Skar King. If she wasn't getting bossed around by Godzilla, then she wouldn't have had any reason to go after Ghidorah. Here, she doesn't have that luxury, and will probably only bust out her beam as a panic-move when getting bashed into the floor. Ghidorah's also has the reflexes to just dodge it, and if he's in the air, Shimo's chances of hitting him drop to basically zero.
Last edited by Itachi Amami on Tue May 14, 2024 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Kaijuking101 »

Itachi Amami wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 12:59 pm Assuming Shimo froze Ghidorah, she almost certainly was in a state more akin to when she got controlled by Skar King. If she wasn't getting bossed around by Godzilla, then she wouldn't have had any reason to go after Ghidorah.
I’m working off what I’ve heard of the novel here from friends that have it, but:

1. There’s a passage in the novel that outright implies she was the one to freeze Ghidorah just to clear up any doubts, of course, it also depends whether you trust the novelization or not:
Image
Make of it what you will. Found this online, not my own.

2. Apparently Base Godzilla is implied to have fought Shimo once and was badly outclassed, this is the same Base Godzilla that apparently fought King Ghidorah in the past as well. Godzilla was also implied to have been absorbing radiation sources to evolve into Evolved Godzilla because he believed he couldn’t defeat Shimo in his base form and felt truly outclassed, something he didn’t do for King Ghidorah or MechaGodzilla, both who he basically 1v1ed in Base. And only the Proton Scream is even comparable to Godzilla’s Atomic Breath, Ghidorah’s Triple Gravity Beams are weaker by most metrics of feats and there’s no sources of electricity around to supercharge him in Sector City Harbor.
Also remember that Shimo was basically undamaged by Evolved Godzilla’s normal Atomic Breath and even Evolved Godzilla charging up his beam further wasn’t enough, according to both the film and the novelisation iirc. Evolved Godzilla’s normal Ray is at least 2x as powerful iirc which I found somewhere.

Anyways, the point I wanted to state is that Shimo’s reputation as the strongest Titan is acknowledged even by Godzilla, and with how might makes right the Titans’ hierarchy is, I don’t see why Godzilla is controlling Shimo especially if he once fought her and was outclassed. But who knows. Make of it what you will.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Voyager »

The MUTOs are here for distraction’s sake, but I think Mechagodzilla and King Ghidorah could give Shimo a mean fight. The victor? I’m not quite sure, but Shimo alone has definitely got the potential to be regarded as one of the franchise’s strongest characters.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Itachi Amami »

Until Shimo really backs up what she's said to be capable of doing with showings on that level, I just can't buy her as on a whole other tier from Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla (save sheer durability, of course). The one real fight we've seen her in just showed her flailing around against Godzilla, not really accomplishing much. Aside from her durability and pure size, all she has is a beam that's never been aimed at a moving target (Godzilla stuck in zero-gravity does not count). Her size not being a real factor here is a massive nerf to her effectiveness.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by La Pegasus »

The issue with "Godzilla was badly outclassed" thing is that IIRC I didn't see any sources for this claim, and even if it's true, there's a reason why Shimo is stuck in the Hollow Earth and Godzilla is the King of the Monsters. And as far as what's implied, Godzilla didn't have outside help.

So I really have to question the whole "Godzilla was outclassed" thing when Godzilla was the one who ended up winning in their 1v1

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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Moth »

Shimo is 007

0 feats
0 uncontrolled action scenes
7 ancient cave paintings hyping her up


I can't make good judgment until we see more of her. I feel KG and MG together can give her a run for her money. Poor MUTOs though.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Godzilla165 »

The MUTOs won’t really be a factor in this fight, outside of pure distraction. Shimo is massive and is an absolute damage sponge, but against two opponents who are both incredibly good and oppressive in CQC, she’s going to quickly get overwhelmed. Shimo may make Ghidorah and MechaGodzilla work for it, but it won’t be too long before the three headed dragon coils her up and goes for his stratospheric drop.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by GodzillavsRayquaza »

Shimo wins. They’re not doing anything to her if an Evolved spiral ray boring into her side did damn near nothing. Mechagodzilla is the only one that won’t get taken out by freezing, and the fact that Shimo can match Evolved Godzilla in melee while Mechagodzilla needed MV Godzilla to be worn down from both drilling into the Hollow Earth and fighting Kong to be able to overwhelm him in melee, and even then, the body slam was even. That means Shimo would ragdoll MG in a similar clash.

And where is this idea that she won’t use her beam until the last moment coming from? It’s her one move, It’s not like some taxing move or like it takes significant effort to use, it’s rather swift. “She never used it without being ordered” yeah, the one example of her attacking at all out of Skar King’s control is her after having been freed from millennia of servitude about half a minute ago, she was flabbergasted, of course Godzilla had to yell at her.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Greyshot151 »

I'd give this to the group.

While Shimo on paper is more powerful and has arguably better durability, at least from what is shown in the film, it won't be enough.

Ghidorah has intelligence, agility, and potent firepower. Mechagodzilla has savagery, agility, and potent firepower. And while the MUTOs are the weakest, they also have the best tools to get past Shimo's hide (Especially if Shimo and Godzilla are indeed related).

The ice breath, while potent, isn't as threatening considering its charge up time and that monsters like Ghidorah have dodged similar atomic blasts. Maybe a future movie will make Shimo more threatening, really solidify her as a powerhouse. For now, numbers, experience, a more savage nature, and solid agility give Godzilla's rogues an edge.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

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GodzillavsRayquaza wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 7:41 am Shimo wins. They’re not doing anything to her if an Evolved spiral ray boring into her side did damn near nothing. Mechagodzilla is the only one that won’t get taken out by freezing, and the fact that Shimo can match Evolved Godzilla in melee while Mechagodzilla needed MV Godzilla to be worn down from both drilling into the Hollow Earth and fighting Kong to be able to overwhelm him in melee, and even then, the body slam was even. That means Shimo would ragdoll MG in a similar clash.

And where is this idea that she won’t use her beam until the last moment coming from? It’s her one move, It’s not like some taxing move or like it takes significant effort to use, it’s rather swift. “She never used it without being ordered” yeah, the one example of her attacking at all out of Skar King’s control is her after having been freed from millennia of servitude about half a minute ago, she was flabbergasted, of course Godzilla had to yell at her.
Godzilla's Ray cut off her beam from coming out of her throat, sent her skidding back, and left her closing her eyes trying to stay steady. That's hardly "near nothing." Said Ray was also quick-fired without charge-time, which we know causes a sizable decrease in power. The feat is still impressive for Shimo, but it's not that far off from Ghidorah tanking that massive Ray in 2019. Sure, it sent Ghidorah back very far, and he clearly didn't like it, but it was still a much larger and actually charged blast.

Saying Shimo matched Godzilla in melee is also false, and quite frankly the opposite of what happened. A simple kick from Godzilla sent Shimo flying straight-down in the Hollow Earth, even when there was basically zero gravity. Godzilla tosses her around pretty easily at several points later on, and aside from two full-body slams, Shimo hardly even lands a hit. Said attacks did zero lasting damage to him, and also relied on her immense weight. Here, she won't even weigh half a ton and is getting dogpiled by opponents, three of which can easily dodge her fairly slow charges anyway.

Skar King only directly ordered her beam in a fight against Kong in their first meeting. Aside from that, we see Shimo willingly use it in a state more aggressive than she will be here. Who does she target? Kong standing still, and Godzilla coming in a straight line right in front of her. The latter happens twice, and Shimo only lands a hit on him when he literally can't move his body out the way. When he's charging directly at her, she completely misses. Even if his Ray threw her aim off, that just speaks to how easy it is to make the blast a non-issue. All the enemy team has to do here is just hold her down and keep attacking and she either won't get to fire it all, or completely miss everyone with the possible exception of FeMUTO. Her beam also has a clearly exploitable charge-time, seen when Kong blocks it twice and Godzilla closes the gap before she can readjust her aim.

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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Kaijuking101 »

Itachi Amami wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 9:02 am Saying Shimo matched Godzilla in melee is also false, and quite frankly the opposite of what happened. A simple kick from Godzilla sent Shimo flying straight-down in the Hollow Earth, even when there was basically zero gravity. Godzilla tosses her around pretty easily at several points later on, and aside from two full-body slams, Shimo hardly even lands a hit. Said attacks did zero lasting damage to him, and also relied on her immense weight. Here, she won't even weigh half a ton and is getting dogpiled by opponents, three of which can easily dodge her fairly slow charges anyway.
I'm responding to the part specifically colored here, but proportionally Shimo is still just has heavy compared to Ghidorah as she would be when at full size. Why does being scaled down even matter here? They're all in the same size range and mass range, her immense mass IN COMPARISON TO THE OTHER MONSTERS would remain.

Also,
Image
a little 3D model analysis using movie proportions gives Shimo a height of 140 meters compared to Godzilla's 120 meter height. If we scaled Godzilla proportionally down to 1.75 meters, that ratio would give Shimo a height of 2.04166666667 meters. I'll set that into Meshmixer's parameters to scale down the two models to that height and see their volumes to figure out their masses.
Image
At 1.75 meters, Godzilla has a volume of around 0.439 m3, assuming a density of water of around 1,000 kg/m3, Godzilla here would be massing 439 kilograms when at human size, almost half a ton already. Let's see what Shimo masses.
Image
Shimo has a volume of around 0.811 m3, so assuming a density of water she'd be around 811 kilograms in weight. Easily over half a ton already, and 1.84x heavier than Godzilla.

King Ghidorah is a lot tougher, so I'll borrow some of the work of others on other forums, giving them credit by posting their work rather than copying it:
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads ... t-68069152
165,000 m3 when compared to Godzilla, at canonical heights. Just have to square cube law that to scale it down. 159 / 120 = 1.325x, so human sized Ghidorah has a height of 2.31875 meters. Square cube lawing the mass gets Ghidorah a volume of 0.512 m3, density of water means he masses 512 kilograms, around half a ton or so. Let's also look at the MUTOs.
For the Female MUTO, (91 / 120) * 1.75 = 1.327 meters tall. She's a midget.
For the Male MUTO, (61 / 120) * 1.75 = 0.89 meters, he's as tall as a 2 year old. Astonishing stuff.

So for reference, that's a 2 year old baby boy and a 9 year old girl being able to take down a fully grown adult, at least in terms of height. It's absolutely hilarious when you think about it. But I digress.
Image
Scaled to 1.327 meters, Femuto is only 0.83 m3, or about 83 kilograms.
Image
Scaled to 0.89 meters, Hokmuto is only about 0.20 m3, around 20 kilograms.

As for MechaGodzilla, borrowing the work from the same person:
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads ... t-75608160
Using the 203,554 m3 number, scaling down using the 122 meter figure of MechaG's height gets us 0.631 m3, giving us 631 kilograms of mecha.

Shimo still has a 1.29x mass advantage over even the heaviest of her opponents. If Shimo was 60 kg, MechaGodzilla would be 46 kg, just for reference.

I would respond to the other points but that's for sometime later, I've spent too much time on this as is already.

Added in 52 minutes 9 seconds:
Itachi Amami wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 9:02 am Godzilla's Ray cut off her beam from coming out of her throat, sent her skidding back, and left her closing her eyes trying to stay steady. That's hardly "near nothing." Said Ray was also quick-fired without charge-time, which we know causes a sizable decrease in power. The feat is still impressive for Shimo, but it's not that far off from Ghidorah tanking that massive Ray in 2019. Sure, it sent Ghidorah back very far, and he clearly didn't like it, but it was still a much larger and actually charged blast.
Eh, I'd argue a bit differently.

GvK Godzilla's atomic breath has a charge-up time of about 1 second.
Meanwhile, the massive charged blast you were talking about takes 2 seconds to charge-up.
The G19 breath is only 1 second longer in charge-up time, and despite that is far wispier than the more solid, lightsaber like breath of GvK Godzilla. And you know what else?
Godzilla's Atomic Breath is visually signified to be weaker when it turns wispier. According to the visual guide (I think), Godzilla and Kong were already exhausted and lower on energy/power when they fought MechaGodzilla, as we all know by this point. How does Godzilla's atomic breath look at that point? A lot wispier and less blue, looking a lot more like flames rather than a solid lightsaber. More plasma torch or jet engine spewing fuel rather than a superheated beam of energy that a lightsaber is. The visual effects show us and imply to us that when Godzilla's energy reserves are greater, the beam becomes more solid, signifying its greater power.

So, despite 2 seconds of charge-time against 1, Godzilla's charged Atomic Breath in KOTM that pushed back King Ghidorah is visually signified to be weaker than the 1 second quickcharged Atomic Breaths he was spamming in GvK.

I would like to see the evidence that leads you to conclude that charge-time contributes to significant decreases in power. I mean, aside from the formula ENERGY (J) = POWER (W) * TIME (seconds), because as I've shown above, Godzilla's POWER output isn't always the same, he clearly is outputting more energy per second and charging up more energy per second in GvK than he is in KOTM based on the visual imagery of their beams.

And let's also not forget Evolved Godzilla's beam is more powerful than GvK Godzilla's beam too. We see 1 second of Evolved Godzilla charging up his beam can explosively slag skyscrapers just by passing over them and cause massive explosions and he's also in the same state after he charged himself up for 8 seconds straight as seen when his whole body is still glowing like after that chargeup when he shoots Shimo and all other Atomic Breaths Godzilla uses aside from his first one prior to that scene were all 1 second chargeups and even the first chargeup which took around 8 seconds was of the exact same effect and power level, and appeared to be Godzilla juicing himself up rather than specifically enhancing that particular breath. In comparison, GvK Godzilla's best feat is merely deleting half a skyscraper dubiously and slicing through said skyscrapers, none of the explosively slagging skyscrapers that the beam itself doesn't even hit that Evolved Godzilla pulls off, both environmental damage visually and calculated show a stark increase in power in Evolved's quickcharge beams against the effects of even normal Godzilla's charged up beams barring the Hollow Earth Driller, of course, since that's either an outlier or something else.

Anyways, the stuff I've posted should show why I believe even a quickcharged beam of Evolved Godzilla's is much, much stronger than the 2 second charged up beam used by KOTM Godzilla that hit King Ghidorah. I've previously believed Evolved Godzilla's beam being at least 2x stronger than normal GvK Godzilla's beam in power output was how much stronger Evolved's firepower is, but relooking at feats and you could arguably say Evolved's firepower might even be stronger than that. So yeah, given MechaG's Proton Scream is weaker than G19's beam given it briefly matched a wispier beam from G21 and King Ghidorah's Triple Gravity Beams are weaker than that given they had a lesser effect against Godzilla than the Proton Scream, they shouldn't really be able to match the level of firepower that Evolved Godzilla's quickcharge beam is able to output.

The beam in question hitting Shimo also only made her close her eyes and stop the beam coming out, it's not exactly a comfortable experience but the effect is much less than Godzilla's normal Atomic Breath, established above to be weaker by far, consistently pushing King Ghidorah back far distances or knock King Ghidorah over easily and that's to the chest, a more armored, more well protected, and better braced area than the head which is more vulnerable and susceptible to getting pushed back or pain in general. There's not much skidding back as you said either. Even assuming the beams are the same power, that's still a better reaction by a weaker part of Shimo's body than King Ghidorah had to the beam, so there's quite a bit of superiority there in durability. And Evolved Godzilla's beam is much more powerful than the beam that hit King Ghidorah.

There's also surface area to consider, the more wispier and spread out nature of Godzilla's beam that hit King Ghidorah (it's wider than his head) against the more narrow beam of Evolved Godzilla's (it's more narrow than his mouth) suggests a higher energy density meaning more energy per square meter, making it further more impressive.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Itachi Amami »

Kaijuking101 wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 2:43 am I'm responding to the part specifically colored here, but proportionally Shimo is still just has heavy compared to Ghidorah as she would be when at full size. Why does being scaled down even matter here? They're all in the same size range and mass range, her immense mass IN COMPARISON TO THE OTHER MONSTERS would remain.

GvK Godzilla's atomic breath has a charge-up time of about 1 second.
Meanwhile, the massive charged blast you were talking about takes 2 seconds to charge-up.
The G19 breath is only 1 second longer in charge-up time, and despite that is far wispier than the more solid, lightsaber like breath of GvK Godzilla. And you know what else?
Godzilla's Atomic Breath is visually signified to be weaker when it turns wispier. According to the visual guide (I think), Godzilla and Kong were already exhausted and lower on energy/power when they fought MechaGodzilla, as we all know by this point. How does Godzilla's atomic breath look at that point? A lot wispier and less blue, looking a lot more like flames rather than a solid lightsaber. More plasma torch or jet engine spewing fuel rather than a superheated beam of energy that a lightsaber is. The visual effects show us and imply to us that when Godzilla's energy reserves are greater, the beam becomes more solid, signifying its greater power.

So, despite 2 seconds of charge-time against 1, Godzilla's charged Atomic Breath in KOTM that pushed back King Ghidorah is visually signified to be weaker than the 1 second quickcharged Atomic Breaths he was spamming in GvK.

I would like to see the evidence that leads you to conclude that charge-time contributes to significant decreases in power. I mean, aside from the formula ENERGY (J) = POWER (W) * TIME (seconds), because as I've shown above, Godzilla's POWER output isn't always the same, he clearly is outputting more energy per second and charging up more energy per second in GvK than he is in KOTM based on the visual imagery of their beams.

And let's also not forget Evolved Godzilla's beam is more powerful than GvK Godzilla's beam too. We see 1 second of Evolved Godzilla charging up his beam can explosively slag skyscrapers just by passing over them and cause massive explosions and he's also in the same state after he charged himself up for 8 seconds straight as seen when his whole body is still glowing like after that chargeup when he shoots Shimo and all other Atomic Breaths Godzilla uses aside from his first one prior to that scene were all 1 second chargeups and even the first chargeup which took around 8 seconds was of the exact same effect and power level, and appeared to be Godzilla juicing himself up rather than specifically enhancing that particular breath. In comparison, GvK Godzilla's best feat is merely deleting half a skyscraper dubiously and slicing through said skyscrapers, none of the explosively slagging skyscrapers that the beam itself doesn't even hit that Evolved Godzilla pulls off, both environmental damage visually and calculated show a stark increase in power in Evolved's quickcharge beams against the effects of even normal Godzilla's charged up beams barring the Hollow Earth Driller, of course, since that's either an outlier or something else.

Anyways, the stuff I've posted should show why I believe even a quickcharged beam of Evolved Godzilla's is much, much stronger than the 2 second charged up beam used by KOTM Godzilla that hit King Ghidorah. I've previously believed Evolved Godzilla's beam being at least 2x stronger than normal GvK Godzilla's beam in power output was how much stronger Evolved's firepower is, but relooking at feats and you could arguably say Evolved's firepower might even be stronger than that. So yeah, given MechaG's Proton Scream is weaker than G19's beam given it briefly matched a wispier beam from G21 and King Ghidorah's Triple Gravity Beams are weaker than that given they had a lesser effect against Godzilla than the Proton Scream, they shouldn't really be able to match the level of firepower that Evolved Godzilla's quickcharge beam is able to output.

The beam in question hitting Shimo also only made her close her eyes and stop the beam coming out, it's not exactly a comfortable experience but the effect is much less than Godzilla's normal Atomic Breath, established above to be weaker by far, consistently pushing King Ghidorah back far distances or knock King Ghidorah over easily and that's to the chest, a more armored, more well protected, and better braced area than the head which is more vulnerable and susceptible to getting pushed back or pain in general. There's not much skidding back as you said either. Even assuming the beams are the same power, that's still a better reaction by a weaker part of Shimo's body than King Ghidorah had to the beam, so there's quite a bit of superiority there in durability. And Evolved Godzilla's beam is much more powerful than the beam that hit King Ghidorah.

There's also surface area to consider, the more wispier and spread out nature of Godzilla's beam that hit King Ghidorah (it's wider than his head) against the more narrow beam of Evolved Godzilla's (it's more narrow than his mouth) suggests a higher energy density meaning more energy per square meter, making it further more impressive.
We have an official size for Shimo. She's 114.3 meters, which is way less than the model scaling would indicate. But the MV sizes are infamously inconsistent even in the films themselves, so I guess it's to be expected. Regardless, she's hardly towering over the competition here. The MUTOs are slightly shorter than her, Mechagodzilla's a bit taller, and Ghidorah dwarfs her. Those last two should also both have a major advantage in weight via metal and sheer size respectively.

2019's Ray got wispier after he was supercharged, and the same occurred in GxK when Godzilla went Evolved. It's pretty clearly just a stylistic choice, especially when a charged blast from GvK Godzilla was at one point wispier than his zero charge blasts. It makes far more sense to gauge the beams by actual damage output, size, and charge-time.

The damage Evolved's Ray did really wasn't particularly impressive. He made some buildings fall apart and caused one explosion, both of which are less impressive than the Pensacola rampage we saw in GvK. Those blasts were significantly smaller than what Ghidorah took, so Evolved's Ray isn't breaking any new ground on that front.

Even accounting for surface area, Ghidorah was clearly taking more total energy (ignoring any narrative info on Evolved's Ray) to his body than Shimo. The fact he's so much bigger means a ton is still hitting him. Sure, it wasn't his head, but his chest is hardly armored and still a vital area of the body. Shimo didn't get pushed back as far, but her quadruped build makes anchoring to the ground a lot easier. Ghidorah's center of gravity is all out of wack thanks to the big-ass wings.

Shimo is tough, there's no doubt about that, but her durability and size aren't nearly as impressive as you're laying them out to be. Godzilla easily manhandling her in melee means this team won't have an issue bullying her around, both through far superior melee and the sizes/weights of Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla. Add in her lack of arms and she has zero way to retaliate up-close except trying to use her beam, which can easily be shut down and/or avoided. Add in Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla likely knowing her tricks ahead of time and being able to fill in the MUTOs, and she's toast.
Last edited by Itachi Amami on Sat May 18, 2024 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Kaijuking101 »

Itachi Amami wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 8:32 am We have an official size for Shimo. She's 114.3 meters, which is way less than the model scaling would indicate. But the MV sizes are infamously inconsistent even in the films themselves, so I guess it's to be expected. Regardless, she's hardly towering over the competition here. The MUTOs are slightly shorter than her, Mechagodzilla's a bit taller, and Ghidorah dwarfs her. Those last two should also both have a major advantage in weight via metal and sheer size respectively.
That's new, it wasn't there last time I checked. Regardless, I still think Shimo has a weight advantage over at least Ghidorah, official stats seem to say he isn't OOMs above Godzilla in weight nor is treated as such nor is MechaGodzilla treated as massively heavier than Godzilla as his metallic density would imply. It's not a 100% solid position, but that's my two cents on it.
Itachi Amami wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 8:32 am 2019's Ray got wispier after he was supercharged, and the same occurred in GxK when Godzilla went Evolved. It's pretty clearly just a stylistic choice, especially when a charged blast from GvK Godzilla was at one point wispier than his zero charge blasts. It makes far more sense to gauge the beams by actual damage output, size, and charge-time.

The damage Evolved's Ray did really wasn't particularly impressive. He made some buildings fall apart and caused one explosion, both of which are less impressive than the Pensacola rampage we saw in GvK. Those blasts were significantly smaller than what Ghidorah took, so Evolved's Ray isn't breaking any new ground on that front.
You're really telling me, causing these tiny ass fire plumes no taller than Godzilla is, likely hitting any form of fuel of stuff within the buildings, is more impressive than explosively causing buildings the beam doesn't even touch and causing an absolutely massive fireball hundreds of meters tall? This same beam is outright vaporising skyscrapers into fine particles? Thanks to frame by frame analysis, the Evolved Ray's damage output is actually vastly more impressive than I initially thought, especially in the numbers you can calculate from this.

And since you put so much stock in quantifiable feats, I'd also like to point out that aside from pushing back King Ghidorah a fair distance, KOTM Godzilla's Atomic Breath is completely featless. Like, really, the only two feats are knocking Ghidorah over, pushing King Ghidorah back, and vaporising King Ghidorah's head, and when it's King Ghidorah's durability that's in contention, that's not a very good look. Also it blows up a facility but the facility also isn't anywhere near as large or packing as much mass as a skyscraper, obviously, and it only explodes rather than get explosively deleted like the Evolved Ray did. Admittedly, this is pre supercharge, but it's also the only collateral damage feat we have for reference.

Meanwhile, GvK's ray slices cleanly through skyscrapers, seeming to explosively delete half a skyscraper, blow up an entire aircraft carrier which weighs 100,000 tons and is much larger than the Monarch facility quite clearly. Even by visual feats alone, the actual damage shown by GvK's beam far outclassed that of Godzilla 2014 and KOTM by far, only lagging behind in maybe kinetics but GvK also gets the benefit of being later on so those feats can technically also apply to GvK Godzilla's beam whilst the same can't be true for Godzilla 2019. You could also account for the headcanon or common theories that Godzilla retained quite a bit of his supercharged energy reserves, which explains why he's able to spam his beam now and charge it up much faster, we see the same situation with Evolved Godzilla where his stamina is much higher and he's able to spam his beam more frequently at higher output levels without draining his energy reserves, so it isn't like this theory doesn't have precedent. Anyways, this shows that GvK might just as well have similar power reserves to Supercharged Godzilla, possibly even higher reserves.

Okay, so maybe the wisp argument wasn't the most solid, but the feats shown by the beam also seem to support the statement that GvK's beams have more feats and have gotten stronger than KOTM's much weaker beams.
Itachi Amami wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 8:32 am Even accounting for surface area, Ghidorah was clearly taking more total energy (ignoring any narrative info on Evolved's Ray) to his body than Shimo. The fact he's so much bigger means a ton is still hitting him. Sure, it wasn't his head, but his chest is hardly armored and still a vital area of the body. Shimo didn't get pushed back as far, but her quadruped build makes anchoring to the ground a lot easier. Ghidorah's center of gravity is all out of wack thanks to the big-ass wings.
As I've stated before, total energy doesn't really matter all that much. Energy density is far more important. Think of how pressure works. You could apply a same amount of force to an object, but when it's spread over a wider surface area, the pressure decreases, meaning per capacita that object would be subject to less stress. It's why it can more painful stepping on one Lego brick than a dozen, because the force you are applying with your foot is spread across the surface area of a dozen Lego bricks instead of one. Or why one needle may hurt more than a dozen. That's why energy density matters, so smaller surface areas but same energy actually indicates that that beam is more dangerous when narrower.

As for the head vs the chest, try punching a bird in the face vs punching it in the chest. Try that with a person. Hell, let that person hold out big fans just to emulate the wings, or spread out a cloak or something. Those wings act like arms. Ghidorah is admittedly easier to knock over based on build, but still, Evolved Ray's kinetics should be the same at least so it speaks to Shimo's own physical strength resisting the kinetic force of Evolved Ray vs Ghidorah getting knocked over when hit to a point much closer to his center of mass/gravity.
Image
Also, see the big red circle with the cross in it? That's Ghidorah's center of mass. Relatively close to the chest, and probably skewed because this model is leaning forward. If upright, the center of mass should be a bit lower. Regardless, pretty close to the chest area so pretty much a bit more braced than the head would be.
Itachi Amami wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 8:32 am Shimo is tough, there's no doubt about that, but her durability and size aren't nearly as impressive as you're laying them out to be. Godzilla easily manhandling her in melee means this team won't have an issue bullying her around, both through far superior melee and the sizes/weights of Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla. Add in her lack of arms and she has zero way to retaliate up-close except trying to use her beam, which can easily be shut down and/or avoided. Add in Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla likely knowing her tricks ahead of time and being able to fill in the MUTOs, and she's toast.
Shimo casually throws Godzilla with one arm off of her from a position with no leverage whatsoever, she clearly has a lot of physical strength to spare. Try doing that to someone roughly half your mass, sending them flying entire bodylengths while just casually moving your arm from a lying down position with zero windup. Although yeah, her melee prowess isn't exactly up to par. But, Ghidorah also clearly isn't heavier than Shimo given Godzilla can throw Ghidorah, either that or Shimo is actually stronger than Ghidorah given she can resist getting rammed and potentially lifted by Godzilla. I can buy MechaGodzilla being maybe heavier due to metallic density, but Ghidorah? Hell nah, not with how the MonsterVerse treated him in his film.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

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Kaijuking101 wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 9:24 am That's new, it wasn't there last time I checked. Regardless, I still think Shimo has a weight advantage over at least Ghidorah, official stats seem to say he isn't OOMs above Godzilla in weight nor is treated as such nor is MechaGodzilla treated as massively heavier than Godzilla as his metallic density would imply. It's not a 100% solid position, but that's my two cents on it.

You're really telling me, causing these tiny ass fire plumes no taller than Godzilla is, likely hitting any form of fuel of stuff within the buildings, is more impressive than explosively causing buildings the beam doesn't even touch and causing an absolutely massive fireball hundreds of meters tall? This same beam is outright vaporising skyscrapers into fine particles? Thanks to frame by frame analysis, the Evolved Ray's damage output is actually vastly more impressive than I initially thought, especially in the numbers you can calculate from this.

And since you put so much stock in quantifiable feats, I'd also like to point out that aside from pushing back King Ghidorah a fair distance, KOTM Godzilla's Atomic Breath is completely featless. Like, really, the only two feats are knocking Ghidorah over, pushing King Ghidorah back, and vaporising King Ghidorah's head, and when it's King Ghidorah's durability that's in contention, that's not a very good look. Also it blows up a facility but the facility also isn't anywhere near as large or packing as much mass as a skyscraper, obviously, and it only explodes rather than get explosively deleted like the Evolved Ray did. Admittedly, this is pre supercharge, but it's also the only collateral damage feat we have for reference.

Meanwhile, GvK's ray slices cleanly through skyscrapers, seeming to explosively delete half a skyscraper, blow up an entire aircraft carrier which weighs 100,000 tons and is much larger than the Monarch facility quite clearly. Even by visual feats alone, the actual damage shown by GvK's beam far outclassed that of Godzilla 2014 and KOTM by far, only lagging behind in maybe kinetics but GvK also gets the benefit of being later on so those feats can technically also apply to GvK Godzilla's beam whilst the same can't be true for Godzilla 2019. You could also account for the headcanon or common theories that Godzilla retained quite a bit of his supercharged energy reserves, which explains why he's able to spam his beam now and charge it up much faster, we see the same situation with Evolved Godzilla where his stamina is much higher and he's able to spam his beam more frequently at higher output levels without draining his energy reserves, so it isn't like this theory doesn't have precedent. Anyways, this shows that GvK might just as well have similar power reserves to Supercharged Godzilla, possibly even higher reserves.

Okay, so maybe the wisp argument wasn't the most solid, but the feats shown by the beam also seem to support the statement that GvK's beams have more feats and have gotten stronger than KOTM's much weaker beams.

As I've stated before, total energy doesn't really matter all that much. Energy density is far more important. Think of how pressure works. You could apply a same amount of force to an object, but when it's spread over a wider surface area, the pressure decreases, meaning per capacita that object would be subject to less stress. It's why it can more painful stepping on one Lego brick than a dozen, because the force you are applying with your foot is spread across the surface area of a dozen Lego bricks instead of one. Or why one needle may hurt more than a dozen. That's why energy density matters, so smaller surface areas but same energy actually indicates that that beam is more dangerous when narrower.

As for the head vs the chest, try punching a bird in the face vs punching it in the chest. Try that with a person. Hell, let that person hold out big fans just to emulate the wings, or spread out a cloak or something. Those wings act like arms. Ghidorah is admittedly easier to knock over based on build, but still, Evolved Ray's kinetics should be the same at least so it speaks to Shimo's own physical strength resisting the kinetic force of Evolved Ray vs Ghidorah getting knocked over when hit to a point much closer to his center of mass/gravity.
Image
Also, see the big red circle with the cross in it? That's Ghidorah's center of mass. Relatively close to the chest, and probably skewed because this model is leaning forward. If upright, the center of mass should be a bit lower. Regardless, pretty close to the chest area so pretty much a bit more braced than the head would be.

Shimo casually throws Godzilla with one arm off of her from a position with no leverage whatsoever, she clearly has a lot of physical strength to spare. Try doing that to someone roughly half your mass, sending them flying entire bodylengths while just casually moving your arm from a lying down position with zero windup. Although yeah, her melee prowess isn't exactly up to par. But, Ghidorah also clearly isn't heavier than Shimo given Godzilla can throw Ghidorah, either that or Shimo is actually stronger than Ghidorah given she can resist getting rammed and potentially lifted by Godzilla. I can buy MechaGodzilla being maybe heavier due to metallic density, but Ghidorah? Hell nah, not with how the MonsterVerse treated him in his film.
Fair enough on the weight side of things, Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla have always been weird on that front. Shimo will still struggle to really fend them off even with similar weights, especially with the MUTOs around.

I will admit the plumes were smaller than I initially remembered, but I still don't see Evolved's Ray as being a massive increase. The buildings appear to just be collapsing due to destabilization and the ambient pressure, and from what we can see of that fireball, it's more akin to two separate explosions converging. One of those fireballs is starting ontop of the building, giving it an immediately far higher elevation. The frame you linked also looks a lot more like pulverization than vaporization, and it didn't occur all at once. Pensacola saw Godzilla turning sizable metal structures into molten slag, so that type of feat isn't exactly new.

Slicing through those skyscrapers really isn't that impressive considering they're only piercing forward in one place then sweeping through the side. They aren't slamming through a significant portion of the structures. He also didn't delete that skyscraper, you can see it still largely standing after the smoke clears a bit as Kong's heads out of frame. The aircraft carrier also only explodes to any significant degree in the middle, and that's after the beam already shoots through, so it's a chain reaction.

I also think it's a bit ridiculous to assume that Godzilla's beam shot up tremendously in power between KoTM and GvK for zero reason. Mechagodzilla was built to kill Godzilla after the events of KoTM, and when taken over by Ghidorah showed zero concern about his Ray. Even accounting for fatigue, the insane gap you're suggesting suggests Kong and even Skar King as absurdly more durable than Ghidorah. This is despite the Godzilla and Kong species having been ancient rivals, just as Godzilla had an ancient rivalry with Ghidorah. Skar King needed his empire and Shimo to take on Godzilla as well: all of this is for a Godzilla weaker than he was in Boston.

Again, while energy density is important, the size of 2019's breath suggests more was getting poured out at once. Most of it was still hitting Ghidorah, so I don't think it's that relevant here. His chest is certainly a braced part of his body, but the fact he didn't receive any lasting damage from the blast is still really impressive. Just to be clear, I'm not claiming that Ghidorah is more durable than Shimo, since she is clearly tougher than him. I just don't think the gap is as big as you're suggesting.

Toho took down the video you linked, but I think I know what you're referring to. In-theory, yes, Shimo has the strength to toss around the competition here. But she has very few options to actually do that in normal gravity. Being quadruped without any real weaponry or a nasty bite sucks for melee combat. Once she got on the ground in Brazil, all she could do was try and slam into Godzilla (she can't exactly wave her legs around while walking). Said charges are very telegraphed and linear, making them easy to avoid. Frankly, if the team just pins her to the ground face-down, she doesn't have any way to dislodge them.
Last edited by Itachi Amami on Sat May 18, 2024 12:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Kaijuking101 »

Itachi Amami wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 12:36 pm Fair enough on the weight side of things, Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla have always been weird on that front. Shimo will still struggle to really fend them off even with similar weights, especially with the MUTOs around.

I will admit the plumes were smaller than I initially remembered, but I still don't see Evolved's Ray as being a massive increase. The buildings appear to just be collapsing due to destabilization and the ambient pressure, and from what we can see of that fireball, it's more akin to two separate explosions converging. One of those fireballs is starting ontop of the building, giving it an immediately far higher elevation. The frame you linked also looks a lot more like pulverization than vaporization, and it didn't occur all at once. Pensacola saw Godzilla turning sizable metal structures into molten slag, so that type of feat isn't exactly new.
Answering to part in red. What in the hell is pulverisation in this context? Godzilla's not applying a constant force to the entirety of the building, he's shooting a heat ray through the building causing it to turn into powder. That's not how pulverisation works and the VSBW application of "pulverisation" is utter bullshit and isn't scientific either. Godzilla's Atomic Breath is a heat ray. It packs a heat element. It doesn't encompass the entire building nor is it applying uniform amounts of force and pressure to the building. It's vaporisation. You could argue it's merely melting rather than vaporisation, and technically this is sublimation rather than vaporisation if I have to be 100% scientific in my usage of the terms, since it's superheated matter turning into vapor, but it simply cannot be pulverisation because that's not how pulverisation works. It has to be sublimation. The beam may be able to punch through things, but that's a tank round vs a hydraulic press, one punches through things and causes collapses via shockwaves or hypervelocity mechanics, the other uniformly applies pressure to an object. And given we see the buildings turn into fine mist in the posted frames, it's clearly not mere shockwave destabilization. Besides, Godzilla's ray has never caused entire skyscrapers to collapse that violently, look and Hong Kong and how much more intact the skyscrapers are.

We also have to consider we don't have any sort of timeframe for Pensacola. It shouldn't be too long, but this is the first and only beam of Godzilla's that hits the facility, and the hole created doesn't massively dwarf the entirety of the wall given how narrow a view there is, humans cover a meaningful size of the hole unless Bernard is actually a giant, the rest appears to merely be collapsed wall with no slag and only flames, no glowing metal to indicate melting has occurred which makes sense, Godzilla's beam also has a concussive, kinetic element to it so pushing aside material also makes sense how the building could collapse, we don't have any visual to indicate melting or sublimation took place unlike with Evolved's Ray. Plus we don't really have much of a timeframe and what we do have is implicit and Godzilla could have been directly firing for many seconds to achieve that. Or simply sweeping his ray around like we see him to is also more plausible. We see that's how his ray destroyed the Monarch facility in KOTM, causing explosions and stuff, so it's obvious something similar happened here. Plus the plumes are still tiny in comparison and not exactly turning entire buildings to slag like Evolved's did. Even with the extra elevation, the explosion Evolved's Ray made is still dwarfing Skar King, accounting for that, and the two converging together implies they contributed half each to the height of the final explosion which still is hundreds of meters wide, immense and larger than any explosion Godzilla has caused with his ray against inert targets.

It's not exactly the type of feat, although I'd argue Godzilla sublimating skyscrapers (turning solid into gas) with a second or less of exposure is still a feat he's never ever done before, but the larger scale he's performing it against.

The feats and visuals, and especially the timeframe, suggests Evolved Godzilla's ray is far more energetic and outputting more energy per second even if the overall energy might not be magnitudes higher. Sublimating entire buildings into vapor is far more impressive than anything Godzilla has ever done, especially as you debunked the deleting half a skyscraper feat below, so it is actually quite a few magnitudes better. A stream of autocannon rounds and a tank round can both punch through buildings, but one does so much more energetically, which is the difference between Evolved Godzilla's ray and base Godzilla's ray.
Itachi Amami wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 12:36 pm Slicing through those skyscrapers really isn't that impressive considering they're only piercing forward in one place then sweeping through the side. They aren't slamming through a significant portion of the structures. He also didn't delete that skyscraper, you can see it still largely standing after the smoke clears a bit as Kong's heads out of frame. The aircraft carrier also only explodes to any significant degree in the middle, and that's after the beam already shoots through, so it's a chain reaction.
It's not a chain reaction, at least not in the sense that's being implied. After the beam passes through, it takes some time for the energy to be transferred from the beam itself into its surroundings, like how it takes time for fire to transfer heat to a metal pan. This is the chain reaction you're talking about, meaning this explosion is caused by the beam overloading the aircraft carrier with energy and causing it to explode, since Godzilla's ray is both thermal and kinetic. Conceded on the skyscraper part, that one is more dubious anyways. As for piercing, doesn't really matter since punching through that much material and superheating it is still pretty impressive, although I'd probably admit not as impressive as I have been claiming.
Itachi Amami wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 12:36 pm I also think it's a bit ridiculous to assume that Godzilla's beam shot up tremendously in power between KoTM and GvK for zero reason. Mechagodzilla was built to kill Godzilla after the events of KoTM, and when taken over by Ghidorah showed zero concern about his Ray. Even accounting for fatigue, the insane gap you're suggesting suggests Kong and even Skar King as absurdly more durable than Ghidorah. This is despite the Godzilla and Kong species having been ancient rivals, just as Godzilla had an ancient rivalry with Ghidorah. Skar King needed his empire and Shimo to take on Godzilla as well: all of this is for a Godzilla weaker than he was in Boston.
That's...not what I've been arguing? I never said Godzilla's beam shot up ridiculously in power, I'm only suggesting a slight power increase, the main factor increasing the beam's lethality is still it's higher energy density due to a less wider surface area transferring the same amount of energy. I DON'T believe this energy increase was significant or insane. I simply think the beam is at least as strong as before, maybe slightly stronger. Like a few percentage, maybe 10%? Nothing significant at all, that's barely any more power. Kong nearly died from brief exposure to it, Ghidorah was undamaged by significant exposure to it, so even if there is a power difference, it balances out and still skews towards Ghidorah being much more durable.
I had a look at water nozzle videos to analyze the difference in how pressure works, and it seems to conform to my hypothesis. When more spread out, they don't seem to have as much force than when they are narrower, assuming power is the same, for a visual reference.

Also, Skar King never had Shimo in the past. Shimo fighting Godzilla in the past is entirely separate from Godzilla fighting and soloing Skar King and his army. Skar King only found Shimo when he was locked up, for some reason. Although I would need the novel to completely confirm this. Anyways until then, this all really is just speculation so I'd drop this until I get the scans I need.
Itachi Amami wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 12:36 pm Again, while energy density is important, the size of 2019's breath suggests more was getting poured out at once. Most of it was still hitting Ghidorah, so I don't think it's that relevant here. His chest is certainly a braced part of his body, but the fact he didn't receive any lasting damage from the blast is still really impressive. Just to be clear, I'm not claiming that Ghidorah is more durable than Shimo, since she is clearly tougher than him. I just don't think the gap is as big as you're suggesting.
Yeah, I'm not disputing any of this except for the parts in red.
ENERGY = POWER * TIME. This is a formula we all learn in high school physics, and frankly is pretty basic and intuitive. POWER is energy per second, time is in seconds, ENERGY is the total energy being poured out. All Godzilla increasing charge time would do is increase energy, as (POWER * 1) < (POWER * 2). It's why charge time doesn't matter, and I want to get this out of the way first. Because POWER is what really matters in the long run, as greater power means greater energy. It's why armor can tank 10 .50 cal bullets but not a single 30mm bullet, they have the same overall energy (200 KJ) but one delivers it all at once whilst the other delivers it in 10 20 KJ packets. The energy is the same, but the power isn't. It's not the best example, but it should illustrate why power is more important than overall energy.

With size, I can easily go the same route and dispute this with the size being a stylistic choice like you did with the wisps. Look at this vs look at this. Godzilla's clearly spewing out more stuff in the former scene compared to the Kiss of Death, but which one do you think he's putting more into?
I swear GvK has the most Godzilla beam firing scenes ever in the MonsterVerse pre GxK. But I digress.
Compare Godzilla's so called charged ray against the Hollow Earth Driller. Obviously the HE Driller is much more powerful, but visually? Well, there's not much difference. The HE Driller is more blue and has greater intensity too. You can see how solid it is, how blue, how you can't really see any flickers. The beam also isn't expanding as much as the charged ray. So is the charged ray superior to the Hollow Earth Driller? Can Ghidorah tank that?
Look how spread out the ray used against MechaGodzilla is vs [ur=https://youtu.be/3MNWGN905Co?t=217]literally any scene of Godzilla using his beam at night[/url], you see that the beam used against MechaGodzilla is more spread out, like the KOTM one, whereas Godzilla's nighttime beams aren't, they're almost consistently the same size. Does this imply Godzilla is spitting out more energy when low on reserves against MechaGodzilla?
Point being, size isn't too great a reference for how much Godzilla is pouring into his beam. Although I guess it is somewhat valid, I simply don't think it's a very accurate measure of beam power.
Itachi Amami wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 8:46 am The wisp argument just falls apart the second you see that 2019 Godzilla had a wispier beam after he got supercharged than in Antarctica.
I'm going to go ahead and state this isn't what I meant by wisps. You see that Godzilla's beam is a lot less homogenous in Antarctica compared to Boston, with a single central beam with a ton of "wisps" aka flames surrounding it, whilst in Boston the beam seems a lot more solid. This is the same in Hong Kong as well, the beam is less solid against MechaGodzilla compared to against Kong. This is more solid than this, for instance. You can't really see as many fluctuations in the beam. This is even more solid than the prior two instances, and are when Godzilla is on higher energy reserves. The color of this beam is more uniformly homogenous compared to this which you can see the slight fluctuations in color compared to the other beam. It's a bit of a stretch again, but it's still representative of what I was trying to convey with the wisp argument. Not how spread out the beam is, but the colorations.
Itachi Amami wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 12:36 pm Toho took down the video you linked, but I think I know what you're referring to. In-theory, yes, Shimo has the strength to toss around the competition here. But she has very few options to actually do that in normal gravity. Being quadruped without any real weaponry or a nasty bite sucks for melee combat. Once she got on the ground in Brazil, all she could do was try and slam into Godzilla (she can't exactly wave her legs around while walking). Said charges are very telegraphed and linear, making them easy to avoid. Frankly, if the team just pins her to the ground face-down, she doesn't have any way to dislodge them.
How very convenient and considerate of them that just a few hours after I used the video for most of my references, it gets taken down. Just for your reference, here's the feat I'm talking about. She does seem to have enough strength to toss either Ghidorah or MechaGodzilla if she gets pinned by them given how Godzilla does the same and she yeets him without trouble. In Brazil, under normal gravity conditions.

Hopefully this should express my thoughts on the matter well, this has been quite the interesting debate so I thank you for that, and as soon as I get some more scans I would like to continue to discuss more points I haven't addressed as well.
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Re: Shimo vs Godzilla's Rogue Gallery

Post by Nagoda »

Kong nearly died from brief exposure to it, Ghidorah was undamaged by significant exposure to it, so even if there is a power difference, it balances out and still skews towards Ghidorah being much more durable.
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