Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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LSD Jellyfish
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Voyager wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:03 am Just realised that not only is there a tonal shift from GTTHM onwards, but the arrival of King Ghidorah marks the shift from more realistic, mythological and revered monsters to more comic book-y.

This can be seen quite easily. Take the Pre-Ghidorah monsters. Godzilla, Anguirus, Rodan, Mothra, Varan, Moguera, King Kong, Dogora, Manda, Maguma, what have you. All in their original films. There’s more presence to them, truly befitting the overwhelming monsters they are.

Now look at the post GTTHM monsters. For example, Ebirah, Gigan, Megalon, Mechagodzilla, Titanosaurus, Jet Jaguar, King Caesar, Gabara. Not quite the same. They feel more like a typical villain to be overcome by a hero (Godzilla). That’s fine, in fact I enjoy it, but I’d be lying if I said Gigan has the same screen presence as Rodan had in ‘56.

This can even by seen in King Ghidorah, the pivotal character. In his first outing you could say he’s revered and respected in the same way, or nearly the same way as the monsters that preceded him. Truly terrifying in implications and what we see and hear on screen. But then we go to 1965, then 1968, then 1972. Ghidorah is continuously diminished to becoming less of a presence.

Some newer monsters get the presence right, though. Frankenstein and Baragon both along with Hedorah.
The appearance of Ghidorah marks something, but I’d say it’s not until Hedorah/Gigan that really changes things. Ghidorah is the first alien, but treated explicitly as an outlier, outside the normal, because it is an extraterrestrial invader.

Ebirah, Kamacuras, and Kumonga, all fit comfortably into normal monsters if you think about it.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by miguelnuva »

Ghidorah was treated well until 72 and even that wasn't the worst.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by attilagodzilla »

miguelnuva wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 4:03 am Ghidorah was treated well until 72 and even that wasn't the worst.
What was the worst?
If you don't mind me asking.

Also on ghidorah. I think he is cool but until kotm I never got why he is made out to be so dangerous.
I know that in gtthm it is said he destroyed, was it venus? but I feel he never seemed like a world destroyer on screen itself.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Kumonga had 'presence' and 'overwhelming' locked down. He gets overlooked for theoretically being only a big spider, but the movie gave him his due. He was a force to be reckoned with, terrorizing the human cast, slaughtering a Kamacuras, panicking the formerly brave Minya, and fighting Godzilla to a standstill. And his puppetry execution was outstanding, too. You can't ask for much more.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by miguelnuva »

attilagodzilla wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 8:34 am
miguelnuva wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 4:03 am Ghidorah was treated well until 72 and even that wasn't the worst.
What was the worst?
If you don't mind me asking.

Also on ghidorah. I think he is cool but until kotm I never got why he is made out to be so dangerous.
I know that in gtthm it is said he destroyed, was it venus? but I feel he never seemed like a world destroyer on screen itself.
I mean his 72 portrayal while bad isn't as bad as its made out to be. Ignoring Toho's budget for the film.

Ghidorah is under control but unlike the previous two times he js being micro managed.

In MZ and DAM Ghidorah was taking orders but he was allowed to do the orders in a way he deemed so. In GvsG the tales are controlling him and Gigan's every single step.

That's the way I saw it.

Also it's better than Planet Eater Ghidorah.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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miguelnuva wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:29 pm Also it's better than Planet Eater Ghidorah.
That's not saying much
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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miguelnuva wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:29 pm I mean his 72 portrayal while bad isn't as bad as its made out to be. Ignoring Toho's budget for the film.

Ghidorah is under control but unlike the previous two times he js being micro managed.

In MZ and DAM Ghidorah was taking orders but he was allowed to do the orders in a way he deemed so. In GvsG the tales are controlling him and Gigan's every single step.

That's the way I saw it.

Also it's better than Planet Eater Ghidorah.
I don't see why Planet Eater needs to be brought into a conversation about exclusively Showa, but no. Planet Eater's Ghidorah has infinitely more presence in its film than Ghidorah does in vs. Gigan. Planet Eater's Ghidorah is worshipped and built up to the entire movie, and each time (besides the final confrontation with Godzilla) it actually appears, it lives up to the hype, eating people's heads from their shadows, twisting time so that the Aratrum's sensors tell the crew that they are already dead before Ghidorah destroys the ship.

In vs. Gigan, Ghidorah flies around a bit, shoots at some tanks, and all of its good shots are reused from older films while all the new shots unfortunately look atrocious. Even narratively, the film hardly makes use of Ghidorah in a way that renders Ghidorah unique. Ghidorah could have been any monster, and I would say the movie made Ghidorah seem weaker by having Ghidorah lose to Godzilla in a 2v2 as compared to prior films where Ghidorah was always fighting multiple monsters alone.

Just in case you're wondering, I don't prefer Planet Eater to vs. Gigan as a movie.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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attilagodzilla wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 8:34 am Also on ghidorah. I think he is cool but until kotm I never got why he is made out to be so dangerous.
In his first movie, he trashes Tokyo in mere seconds compared to what would have taken Godzilla and Rodan. Operating on the limited special effect budget and time constraints that it was, I think the movie pulled off the threat well with the best tools it had.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Fropston wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:00 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:29 pm I mean his 72 portrayal while bad isn't as bad as its made out to be. Ignoring Toho's budget for the film.

Ghidorah is under control but unlike the previous two times he js being micro managed.

In MZ and DAM Ghidorah was taking orders but he was allowed to do the orders in a way he deemed so. In GvsG the tales are controlling him and Gigan's every single step.

That's the way I saw it.

Also it's better than Planet Eater Ghidorah.
I don't see why Planet Eater needs to be brought into a conversation about exclusively Showa, but no. Planet Eater's Ghidorah has infinitely more presence in its film than Ghidorah does in vs. Gigan. Planet Eater's Ghidorah is worshipped and built up to the entire movie, and each time (besides the final confrontation with Godzilla) it actually appears, it lives up to the hype, eating people's heads from their shadows, twisting time so that the Aratrum's sensors tell the crew that they are already dead before Ghidorah destroys the ship.

In vs. Gigan, Ghidorah flies around a bit, shoots at some tanks, and all of its good shots are reused from older films while all the new shots unfortunately look atrocious. Even narratively, the film hardly makes use of Ghidorah in a way that renders Ghidorah unique. Ghidorah could have been any monster, and I would say the movie made Ghidorah seem weaker by having Ghidorah lose to Godzilla in a 2v2 as compared to prior films where Ghidorah was always fighting multiple monsters alone.

Just in case you're wondering, I don't prefer Planet Eater to vs. Gigan as a movie.
Who said I'm talking exclusively Showa?

As for who was treated better. 72 Ghidorah still acts like Ghidorah. It's the Nebula M hunter aliens that interfere as they are controlling him and Gigan down to the letter. And Ghidorah was 2v1. Ghidorah is defeated when Godzilla and Angurius get Gigan at the fight. While Godzilla fights him significantly better in this film it still requires two monsters to drive him away.

You seem to be talking about how the monster effects the plot and importance to the film.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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JAGzilla wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:57 am Kumonga had 'presence' and 'overwhelming' locked down. He gets overlooked for theoretically being only a big spider, but the movie gave him his due. He was a force to be reckoned with, terrorizing the human cast, slaughtering a Kamacuras, panicking the formerly brave Minya, and fighting Godzilla to a standstill. And his puppetry execution was outstanding, too. You can't ask for much more.
Not to mention that Kamacuras met both criteria to begin with, making Kumonga, a monster that can destroy such a threat, even more deadly.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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miguelnuva wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2023 2:59 am Who said I'm talking exclusively Showa?

As for who was treated better. 72 Ghidorah still acts like Ghidorah. It's the Nebula M hunter aliens that interfere as they are controlling him and Gigan down to the letter. And Ghidorah was 2v1. Ghidorah is defeated when Godzilla and Angurius get Gigan at the fight. While Godzilla fights him significantly better in this film it still requires two monsters to drive him away.

You seem to be talking about how the monster effects the plot and importance to the film.
I briefly skimmed and didn't notice the question in the post you were responding to that asked which Ghidorah was the worst.

As for acting like Ghidorah, how is that defined? What unique Ghidorah characteristics are shared by all the Ghidorahs except Planet Eater? Maybe I'll rewatch all of the films with Ghidorah and make a post comparing each iteration of Ghidorah, but the only thing I can immediately think of that I don't remember Planet Eater ever doing is shooting out Gravity beams.

To be quite honest, the monsters' narrative importance is generally much more important to me than any of the, I guess the word would be aesthetic elements. Not that such things are unimportant, but everyone's got their priorities/preferences.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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JAGzilla wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:57 am Kumonga had 'presence' and 'overwhelming' locked down. He gets overlooked for theoretically being only a big spider, but the movie gave him his due. He was a force to be reckoned with, terrorizing the human cast, slaughtering a Kamacuras, panicking the formerly brave Minya, and fighting Godzilla to a standstill. And his puppetry execution was outstanding, too. You can't ask for much more.
Kumonga is actually the most terrifying kaiju if you were unlucky enough to be cursed with arachnophobia....
Last edited by ShadowCloud on Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Follinollante wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:10 am
JAGzilla wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:57 am Kumonga had 'presence' and 'overwhelming' locked down. He gets overlooked for theoretically being only a big spider, but the movie gave him his due. He was a force to be reckoned with, terrorizing the human cast, slaughtering a Kamacuras, panicking the formerly brave Minya, and fighting Godzilla to a standstill. And his puppetry execution was outstanding, too. You can't ask for much more.
Not to mention that Kamacuras met both criteria to begin with, making Kumonga, a monster that can destroy such a threat, even more deadly.
Huge insects and related creatures are a staple of sci fi and horror, and the jungle setting created a believable world where they rule. The Kamacuras had a presence and were an effective danger, but Kumonga had a creep factor to go with that.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Remember, Kumonga had Godzilla on the ropes in a very believable way, until Minya saved Godzilla. It took the combined effort of Godzilla and Minya to stop Godzilla. Kumonga was no slouch, and had two deadly abilities that were actually able to injure Godzilla: the poison and webbing. To make matters worse, Kumonga is probably one of the smarter showa monsters and demonstrates this when it sets multiple traps on Godzilla.

It's it's subsequent appearance in Godzilla's Revenge (an edited down battle with different context), Godzilla Final Wars, and a lot of movies and comics that pushed Kumonga into being a jobber/extra monster.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:12 pm Remember, Kumonga had Godzilla on the ropes in a very believable way, until Minya saved Godzilla. It took the combined effort of Godzilla and Minya to stop Godzilla. Kumonga was no slouch, and had two deadly abilities that were actually able to injure Godzilla: the poison and webbing. To make matters worse, Kumonga is probably one of the smarter showa monsters and demonstrates this when it sets multiple traps on Godzilla.

It's it's subsequent appearance in Godzilla's Revenge (an edited down battle with different context), Godzilla Final Wars, and a lot of movies and comics that pushed Kumonga into being a jobber/extra monster.
Kumonga also didn't run from Ghidorah from what that is worth. That's one thing about the 60's showa films. Other than Ghidorah all the monsters were about the same strength level.
Last edited by miguelnuva on Mon Dec 11, 2023 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:12 pm It took the combined effort of Godzilla and Minya to stop Godzilla.
If even Godzilla needed help to stop Godzilla, what chance do we have? :(


Sorry, being a smartass. :P Kumonga actually scared the hell out of me when I was a kid. The way he crept up slowly on his webbed prey, stinger jabbing with excitement....brrr! And that move where he reared up and flung himself directly into Godzilla blew my mind. That was an awesome marionette. :D

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by attilagodzilla »

I will forever remember kumonga as spiga because the subtitles call him that in son of godzilla and it has kinda stuck with me.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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In Italy, he was called Smegor.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Nuclear level hot take:

Godzilla's Revenge is actually a pretty wholesome movie with a good moral lesson, that being standing up for yourself. It's not the best movie by any means, but it's far from the unwatchable trash people make it out to be
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Breakdown wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:50 pm Nuclear level hot take:

Godzilla's Revenge is actually a pretty wholesome movie with a good moral lesson, that being standing up for yourself. It's not the best movie by any means, but it's far from the unwatchable trash people make it out to be
Preach on!

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