The Disney Thread.

For the discussion of movies and TV shows not distributed by Toho.
Legion1979
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Re: The Disney Thread.

Post by Legion1979 »

miguelnuva wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:54 pm The Little Mermaid bad a lot of dumb changes that stopped it from being more successful as well as Spiderman being on its heels which is a shake because Hallie nailed Ariel.
Seems like Mermaids big problem was overseas box office.

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Re: The Disney Thread.

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Legion1979 wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:54 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:54 pm The Little Mermaid bad a lot of dumb changes that stopped it from being more successful as well as Spiderman being on its heels which is a shake because Hallie nailed Ariel.
Seems like Mermaids big problem was overseas box office.
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Re: The Disney Thread.

Post by LegendZilla »

Aaaand Wish is underperforming. If The Marvels brought Disney down to zero, this movie will bring them down to Minus One.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Disney Thread.

Post by ShinGojira14 »

LegendZilla wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:14 pm Aaaand Wish is underperforming. If The Marvels brought Disney down to zero, this movie will bring them down to Minus One.
No it won’t.
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miguelnuva
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Re: The Disney Thread.

Post by miguelnuva »

LegendZilla wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:14 pm Aaaand Wish is underperforming. If The Marvels brought Disney down to zero, this movie will bring them down to Minus One.
No it hasn't. The joke was funny but it was used in the wrong place.

Added in 1 minute 15 seconds:
And wish isn't underperforming.
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Re: The Disney Thread.

Post by Gojira-Fan »

miguelnuva wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:28 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:14 pm Aaaand Wish is underperforming. If The Marvels brought Disney down to zero, this movie will bring them down to Minus One.
No it hasn't. The joke was funny but it was used in the wrong place.

Added in 1 minute 15 seconds:
And wish isn't underperforming.
19.5 million 3 day weekend is underperforming.

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Angilasman
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Re: The Disney Thread.

Post by Angilasman »

You know, I watched a lot of Disney as a kid but I never developed this intense love that so many have of the brand. Like, for many Disney is equated with childhood in general. I intensely loved the old cartoons Cartoon Network showed (Looney Tunes, Tex Avery, Tom and Jerry, black and white Popeyes), Godzilla, dinosaurs, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Space Ghost Coast to Coast (which I loved even if I didn't quite understand)... maybe it's because I never went to the theme parks? Maybe that's the key to being enveloped in the womb of Disney?

The only Disney character that made that connection with me was Winnie-the-Pooh, which was my favorite character as a small child, but I never thought of that as a Disney property because I also grew up with A.A. Milne's original stories, so I knew Disney's was an adaptation.

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Re: The Disney Thread.

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Angilasman wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:54 am You know, I watched a lot of Disney as a kid but I never developed this intense love that so many have of the brand. Like, for many Disney is equated with childhood in general. I intensely loved the old cartoons Cartoon Network showed (Looney Tunes, Tex Avery, Tom and Jerry, black and white Popeyes), Godzilla, dinosaurs, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Space Ghost Coast to Coast (which I loved even if I didn't quite understand)... maybe it's because I never went to the theme parks? Maybe that's the key to being enveloped in the womb of Disney?

The only Disney character that made that connection with me was Winnie-the-Pooh, which was my favorite character as a small child, but I never thought of that as a Disney property because I also grew up with A.A. Milne's original stories, so I knew Disney's was an adaptation.
I see that you watched The Tex Avery Show on Cartoon Network. AFAIK there were two, and only two, other TV series on the channel at the same time with a similar format, The Bob Clampett Show and The Chuck Jones Show. Did you watch them, too?

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Re: The Disney Thread.

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^ I watched every classic toon package on CN. Don't forget Toonheads and Late Night Black and White!

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Rody
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Re: The Disney Thread.

Post by Rody »

The discussion about film budgets and box office returns feels even more poignant with Godzilla: Minus One in theaters to contrast with. Godzilla: Minus One is getting lauded by critics and general audiences alike, and is basically a guaranteed financial success with its $11 million US run and $30+ million global total so far (on an est. $15 million budget) - and yet those numbers look downright quaint compared to Disney's box office numbers. If Godzilla: Minus One broke $290 million, that would be an absolute sensation; meanwhile anything less than $300-$400 million for a Disney movie is regarded as a disaster.
I'm sure there are a myriad of reasons why there's such a vast difference in film budgets, but I have trouble believing there's any legitimately good reason for Disney/Hollywood movies to be THAT expensive.

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Re: The Disney Thread.

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Rody wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 5:35 pm The discussion about film budgets and box office returns feels even more poignant with Godzilla: Minus One in theaters to contrast with. Godzilla: Minus One is getting lauded by critics and general audiences alike, and is basically a guaranteed financial success with its $11 million US run and $30+ million global total so far (on an est. $15 million budget) - and yet those numbers look downright quaint compared to Disney's box office numbers. If Godzilla: Minus One broke $290 million, that would be an absolute sensation; meanwhile anything less than $300-$400 million for a Disney movie is regarded as a disaster.
I'm sure there are a myriad of reasons why there's such a vast difference in film budgets, but I have trouble believing there's any legitimately good reason for Disney/Hollywood movies to be THAT expensive.
The big points I always hear are as follows:

1: celebrity casting/actors. The more famous the name, the more moolah they claim.
2: reshooting. Lots of reshoots for most of these projects adds up.
3: CGI and visual effects.
4: overspending in general. Kind of loops in with the first three.

Now I don’t know why exactly it costs so much to make many of these movies, but these are certainly factors.
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Re: The Disney Thread.

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^I think at most, it will break $100 million worldwide.

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Re: The Disney Thread.

Post by Angilasman »

It's only partially Disney because it encompasses WB/DC as well, but it's pretty amazing how quickly and resoundingly audience appetite for superhero movies has plummeted.

I mean, high saturation followed by audience exhaustion is a tale as old as time, but it's wild to experience.

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Re: The Disney Thread.

Post by Tyrant_Lizard_King »

I think the Disney Plus series is when things really went off the rails for the MCU.
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Re: The Disney Thread.

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Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:55 pm I think the Disney Plus series is when things really went off the rails for the MCU.
That's what killed it for me. The idea that you'd HAVE to pay a subscription to a streaming service in order to understand the stories of the year's biggest blockbusters really rubbed me the wrong way. It's a gross, audience-unfriendly business decision.
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Re: The Disney Thread.

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Spuro wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:14 pm
Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:55 pm I think the Disney Plus series is when things really went off the rails for the MCU.
That's what killed it for me. The idea that you'd HAVE to pay a subscription to a streaming service in order to understand the stories of the year's biggest blockbusters really rubbed me the wrong way. It's a gross, audience-unfriendly business decision.
The fact that they’re also much more of a commitment is a pretty big deal too. I never minded watching a 2 hour super hero films 2-3 times a year. But suddenly when there’s like 8 episodes staring at me, with one season being pumped out after another it no longer feels palpable.

I think the fact that Marvels requires you to watch like 4 television shows is a reason why it flopped.
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Re: The Disney Thread.

Post by JAGzilla »

I was totally on board with the MCU until these D+ shows started being shotgunned out. It instantly diluted the brand into this lake of forgettable mediocrity I really don't feel like wading through just to have context for the next passable popcorn movie. I've fallen way behind and don't care to catch up. It's not fun anymore.
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Re: The Disney Thread.

Post by StreamOfKaijuness »

Angilasman wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:03 am It's only partially Disney because it encompasses WB/DC as well, but it's pretty amazing how quickly and resoundingly audience appetite for superhero movies has plummeted.

I mean, high saturation followed by audience exhaustion is a tale as old as time, but it's wild to experience.
There has been a lot of online discourse about "superhero fatigue" for at least the past 12 years. I remember back in 2011 when Thor, X-Men: First Class, Green Lantern and Captain America: The First Avenger all opened in the same summer. There was plenty of talk back then about how that unprecedented glut of superhero movies would cause audiences to turn on the whole subgenre in short order, but what was true then is still true now: audiences are not a monolith and it all comes down to how many people want to go out and see specific movies on the big screen.

In 2011, Thor and Captain America both did solid but not spectacular, X-Men: First Class slightly underperformed and Green Lantern flopped.

In 2023, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 and Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse were both hugely successful; Ant-Man and The Wasp: Quantumania performed in line with its predecessors outside of China but was way too expensive for that to be good enough; and The Flash, The Marvels, Blue Beetle and Shazam: Fury of the Gods all flopped.

There were more superhero movies released this year than in 2011, with Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom still to come, but the bottom line hasn't changed. If there's actual audience demand for a particular film, whether it's a superhero movie or not, people will turn out for it, otherwise they won't.

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 4:15 am
Spuro wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:14 pm
Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:55 pm I think the Disney Plus series is when things really went off the rails for the MCU.
That's what killed it for me. The idea that you'd HAVE to pay a subscription to a streaming service in order to understand the stories of the year's biggest blockbusters really rubbed me the wrong way. It's a gross, audience-unfriendly business decision.
The fact that they’re also much more of a commitment is a pretty big deal too. I never minded watching a 2 hour super hero films 2-3 times a year. But suddenly when there’s like 8 episodes staring at me, with one season being pumped out after another it no longer feels palpable.

I think the fact that Marvels requires you to watch like 4 television shows is a reason why it flopped.
That is absolutely the biggest anchor weighing down The Marvels. Disney deeply miscalculated by putting all of their eggs in the Disney+ basket ever since the pandemic. They especially damaged the viability of their animated movies by conditioning parents to avoid taking their kids to the theater and instead wait just a month or two to stream the latest animated Disney flicks at home. Marvel Studios managed to avoid that pitfall up until now by keeping each of their film franchises focused on its own characters, keeping them accessible to all audiences, but they really killed the viability of the Captain Marvel sequel by making it just as much a sequel to the Disney+ shows Miss Marvel and WandaVision.

There are 334 million people in the United States, where Disney+ still only has 46 million subscribers, less than two-thirds as many as Netflix. That in itself excluded the majority of the American populace from wanting to go out to theaters to see a sequel to any Disney+ shows. Then factor in how not even all of the people who are subscribed to Disney+ have watched WandaVision, and even fewer subscribers have watched Miss Marvel, and the pool of people who are caught up enough to watch The Marvels is even smaller. Then of course, when the only people to whom a new theatrical Marvel movie might appeal are a specific subset of existing Disney+ subscribers, what's to stop them from waiting just a month or two to stream this latest Marvel flick at home?
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miguelnuva
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Re: The Disney Thread.

Post by miguelnuva »

The Marvels never had a chance.

You have people that were fans of the mcu that didn't want to see it because they want to call it woke.

You have fans like me that still like the mcu but are far behind because we either don't have D+ or don't want to watch that many shows to catch up.

And finally a group that either will wait for the film to be on D+ or doesn't like Captain Marvel enough to see it at theaters.
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Re: The Disney Thread.

Post by OrnithopodaistheBest »

Disney got too overconfident with Plus. Now they're basically licensing some of their titles to Netflix again. Also, having to watch whole ass streaming shows just to learn why Blorko will be a major character and team up with the New Avengers to beat Kang is certainly a turn-off.

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