Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Gigantis
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by Gigantis »

The films early draft appeared on the main site today. I'm still reading it, but.. wow. Varan got cucked out of a movie AGAIN. :lol:
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Honestly, monster choices seem better. They're consistent. It's all Showa-Era dinosaurian monsters. No weirdness with Hedorah or King Shisa being forced in nonsensically. Also, there's less monsters so presumably each would have gotten a little more focus than what the final film had. Mothra seems to have a more thoughtout role in the film as well. Weird to having King Ghidorah and not Monster X, but okay. I wonder what the design differences between the two would be.

This seems slightly less ambitious than the final draft of Godzilla Final Wars, in a good way. No mutants, less monsters, and much more streamlined. I wonder if this really shows how much pull Kitamura had on the project.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by StardustGenius »

Makes me wonder about the aesthetics of this movie too. Very good work from the staff working on this! They have my many thanks.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by ebirahsmeg1 »

Very interesting stuff to read over in regards to the earliest scripts (I don't think even John Lemay covered any of these unused scripts in his books...the Hobby Japan Perfection/Completion Book series are often filled with great stuff like this). My comments below are only in regard to the first draft (I've just quickly skimmed over all the other drafts).

- Honestly, not sure if it's better/worst/equal when compared to what we ended up with. I do like how the silly Mutant stuff/"Neo The One" silliness with Ogata was cut...that nonsense has not aged well *AT ALL*. :keizer:

- While having the original King Ghidorah show up (with its astroid basically being the same as the Gorath astroid that unveiled Monster X in the actual film) and then transform into Keizer Ghidorah (as opposed to Monster X) sounds all fine and dandy on paper, the way it's written makes it seem like original KG has no interaction nor fight with Godzilla before being intercepted midair by Mothra. Lame. :monsterx:

- I'm assuming Baragon was penciled in since the suit was still available and in useable condition from GMK. Funny how they didn't put him in Paris instead of Anguirus...it would have been a nice nod to him missing out on the destruction in DAM. :Baragon:

- Varan gets the shaft again...he must have really pissed off some of the higher ups in TOHO. :gordon:

- Rumbling and Eclaire come off as worthy mecha alongside Gotengo in the first draft....in the actual film, they have reduced roles and are easily dispatched (wonder why they felt the Kayru ship needed to be added in the eventual film? :?: Perhaps due to the eventual larger monster cast).

Also, Godzilla's role seems even smaller compared to the actual film...there is no major arctic battle with Gigan or the Gotengo when he breaks free from his prison (the resin angle in general sounds silly...trapping him in ice, while not all that original, was the better route to go in actual film imo). He just frees himself, and then shows up in Tokyo Bay. On the positive side, the cutting back to him with his eyes opening inside the resin from time to time at least keeps his presence in our minds, where in GFW, he basically is never referenced nor mentioned for well over an hour after the film's opening.

Just only skimmed over this and the rest of the content....will comment more after I've read over all the various drafts more thoroughly (time zone difference + busy work week).
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by Follinollante »

In terms of kaiju choices, I'm not really sure I like all of them in either the early drafts or the final movie. The movie is a "monster mayhem" film, and monsters that are just large animals (like Manda or Kumonga) don't really end up being as fun as a kaiju that shoots lasers or acid or whatever.
In my opinion.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by Spuro »

https://youtu.be/8pbleZLv9Po?t=540
"Yumiko Shaku said that Godzilla Final Wars director Ryuhei Kitamura when she talked to him, she said he didn’t really like Godzilla. She said he wanted to “destroy all the other Godzilla films, which he did”"
I didn't expect to learn this little factoid today. Ironic that a movie that featured GINO getting destroyed by Godzilla would be made with just as much bad taste towards the franchise.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by Logan268 »

That contradicts the well known fact that Kitamura loved the Showa era of Godzilla films but disliked everything after Terror of Mechagodzilla
Last edited by Logan268 on Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by Giratina93 »

Logan268 wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:19 pm That contradicts the well known fact that Kitamura loved the Showa era of Godzilla films but disliked everything after Terror of Mechagodzilla
Directors can and have lied in the past to present as good a front as possible even when the truth is blatantly obvious (As seen with the production diaries for The Hobbit movies and literally everything that came out of DeKnight's mouth regarding Uprising).
Last edited by Giratina93 on Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Ryuhei Kitamura in various interviews contradicts himself and remains an enigma. He seems to be a nice guy, but one thing becomes incredibly clear, he really, really, really is less interested in Godzilla, and rather being part of "hollywood"/other movies. You can see it countless times here:

https://vantagepointinterviews.com/2019 ... inal-wars/
RK: It was not, but Tomiyama-san told me that we could use the Hollywood Godzilla. So I was like, “Oh, is it OK? We can use it?” “We are 100% OK.” Then that’s the thing that everybody wants to see – Japan versus America – so why don’t we do it? I really wish now I would have made that scene much longer. But again, I had to pick and choose all kinds of things. So I just made the decision that if I cannot do a full round, let’s just end it quick so that at least it gets a big laugh. So I made it like that.
Really though, I think Godzilla Final Wars is a Showa Tribute...just not what we expect. It's not a Showa Tribute to Mothra vs. Godzilla, it's a Showa tribute to Godzilla vs. Megalon or Mechagodzilla:
RK: Minya wasn’t part of the synopsis or the early script – I don’t remember. I just felt like we need that heart and soul for the movie because we knew this was more like a ‘70s Godzilla fun movie, which we were trying to make. We were not planning to do a reboot of the original Godzilla, which had that strong message. But still, I felt like we need to send out a message in our own way.

We’re not going to do a dark and serious version like the original one because it has to be a fun movie. Still, we have to have that. So when I thought about that, it was a very important part of the movie. So I came up with this idea of the human boy and the Godzilla baby, basically, and their kind of connection and friendship. They are the ones who stop it in the end. That was very big for me. Godzilla is not really just about the monsters and the fight; it has to have the message.

I just had to find a way to send out the message in my own way. So when I came up with this, I was like, “We should have Minya.” I think we all agreed. I’m very proud of that. To me, I think that was a very brave and smart decision to decide to bring back Minya. That was far from the movies I’d been making! (laughs) No, no, no, I’m not that kind of director. I really want this human, heart-and-soul element in the movie, and Minya was the one.

So those for monsters – Minya, Gigan, King Caesar, and Hedorah – those were my choices.
I can imagine that Ryu Kitamura was being very honest when he said he liked the 70's Godzilla films. What's funny though, is that it might also be a bit too obvious that they're more films he liked as a child, rather than anything he really respects/liked. Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla came out when he was 5, so there's a good likelihood that's why he proclaims to love it so much...

If you also read the rest of the interview, it also becomes abundantly clear that Kitamura is incredibly self indulgent. The film is filled with cameos of actors from his other films, and the soundtrack was made by Keith Emerson pretty much because he pushed for it. Australia (And funnily enough NY) is in there basically because he lived there for a while and it was essentially his second home. He chose Don Frye because he was a big fan of MMA at the time. The overall picture I have of Kitamura is that he was less interested in Godzilla, and more the oppurtunity to make a big budget (for Japan) film, and use that to catapult him into Hollywood.

Added in 17 minutes 8 seconds:
Giratina93 wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:32 pm Directors can and have lied in the past to present as good a front as possible even when the truth is blatantly obvious (As seen with the production diaries for The Hobbit movies and literally everything that came out of DeKnight's mouth regarding Uprising).
Ohhh, what about Steven Deknight? What happened there?
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by Giratina93 »

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:30 pm Ohhh, what about Steven Deknight? What happened there?
Off the top of my head, I know that he said that Ron Pearlman couldn't come back as Hannibal Chau due to scheduling conflicts, only for Ron Pearlman to shoot that down as a lie, and that he got turned down from returning because the role was too minor to bother bringing him back.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by ShinGojira14 »

19 years.

It’s been 19 years since the third best Godzilla film ever made was released. Happy birthday to Final Wars.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by Gigantis »

Holy fuck I just realized this movie's gonna be twenty next year.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Gigantis wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:20 pm Holy fuck I just realized this movie's gonna be twenty next year.
Spoiled youth.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Time seems to go by so fast.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Gigan, my beloved

That is all :Gigan:

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Final Wars and Final Gigan are not doing very well here: viewtopic.php?t=34920
BIG FAN SURVEY 2023 --> viewtopic.php?t=34920
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Gailah 1966 wrote: Mon Dec 25, 2023 1:05 am Final Wars and Final Gigan are not doing very well here: viewtopic.php?t=34920
I never booked it to a forum so fast-

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by miguelnuva »

Kdm on Twitter is mentioning an interview he is doing. Final Wars bombed so bad according to his interview Toho was never going to bring Godzilla back. Banno getting G14 off the ground and Legendary Godzilla is what inspired them to start Shin Godzilla and Minus One. Take that as you will.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

miguelnuva wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 4:58 pm Kdm on Twitter is mentioning an interview he is doing. Final Wars bombed so bad according to his interview Toho was never going to bring Godzilla back. Banno getting G14 off the ground and Legendary Godzilla is what inspired them to start Shin Godzilla and Minus One. Take that as you will.
Not interested in speculation based on how bad GFW bombed was, but I’ve been meaning to compare GFW versus -1.0.

It’s an excellent example of how trying to “appeal” to audiences ends poorly. Kitamura was deeply inspired by western action flicks, and tried to appeal and make a Godzilla film that would be more accessible to American audiences. He included western actors, tried to make it “cool” and did other things like get Keith Emerson to do the soundtrack. But, as a result, he made a movie that was off putting to audiences both in Japan and abroad.

Meanwhile, Minus One just told a story, and was made with care and consideration. It’s a critical darling in America now and has done well financially. It shows that you never need to appeal to audiences, just do your best.

That being said, it should be mentioned that the world had changed in 20 years. People in America are more accustomed and accepting of Japanese media, even stuff that isn’t dubbed. GFW was a product of its time, and even if it’s not one of my favorites, I won’t deny that Kitamura clearly had a lot of wild creative energy that he tried to put into the film. I remember a time where GFW was THE NEW GODZILLA FILM, and to me at the age of 10, DA BEST. Now it’s just another movie. To GFW’s credit, it’s rather unique stylistically amongst the series, so I can see myself periodically revisiting it, and appreciating some of the things I think it did well.

Also, one last point, I got the impression that Japan’s movie industry was just dying in the mid 2000s. GFW wasn’t great, but it’s not the sole cause. It seems like until Shin, Japan just wasn’t interested in producing any “big budget” sfx heavy extravaganzas.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Sat Jan 06, 2024 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Anyone else feel like the 2004 Xiliens in their true form look like H.R Giger took a stab at designing an Ultraman? Yeah...

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