Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

[BrazilianKaiju]

I haven't seen '-1' yet (here in Brazil it premieres on the 14th), but I think this comparison is a little unfair.



Shin Godzilla was made by Japanese for Japanese. I didn't see it as an attempt to please the West. It's almost like an 'inside joke' (to the point where the film recreates scenes that appeared on Japanese news during the 2011 disasters).

Furthermore, it is the most 'non-standard Godzilla film' in the franchise. It's almost an experiment in new approaches. It's not an epic, it's not an adventure, it's not fiction, it's a political satire. And as another user mentioned, it's super stylized. Minus One seems to have intended to be more mainstream. Toho clearly intended to make a film that worked for everyone. The film is not so daring, it makes a safe bet, it brings back concepts that worked and the narrative is much more familiar and emotional.

I wouldn't say that '-1' is the 'anti-shin', but probably Toho, realizing that Shin was relatively successful and recognized in the West, dreamed bigger this time. Yamazaki seems to have intentionally made a film to please the public (while Anno didn't seem to care much about that, and wanted to tell his own story, with all the weirdness and innovations, regardless of how it resonated with the fandom). Yamazaki probably observed the criticism of Shin Godzilla and thought 'I will deliver the film they are wanting'.

This difference in intentionality between the two projects is what makes them difficult to compare. It's almost as if Shin wasn't intended to be a 'Godzilla' film as we know it, while '-1' was the film the fandom was asking for. It is logical that the second will tend to be better received. This is a fact. But perhaps those who didn't like Shin (despite all its creative and tonal shifts) could recognize the film's quality as a film. Is the movie very good. But it's not what you wanted it to be.

Another thing that could count against Shin here is the fact that Toho repeated the experimental approachand and and tried again in bold and strange reinterpretations in the animated trilogy and Singular Point.

After that, we had almost a decade where the most traditional Godzilla we had was from American productions. Everyone wanted a more familiar Godzilla made by Toho, and Minus One – intentionally –set out to do this. Was like offering water to someone who are dying of thirst. A positive response is almost inevitable.

[Godzilla165]

I haven't seen '-1' yet (here in Brazil it premieres on the 14th), but I think this comparison is a little unfair.



Shin Godzilla was made by Japanese for Japanese. I didn't see it as an attempt to please the West. It's almost like an 'inside joke' (to the point where the film recreates scenes that appeared on Japanese news during the 2011 disasters).

Furthermore, it is the most 'non-standard Godzilla film' in the franchise. It's almost an experiment in new approaches. It's not an epic, it's not an adventure, it's not fiction, it's a political satire. And as another user mentioned, it's super stylized. Minus One seems to have intended to be more mainstream. Toho clearly intended to make a film that worked for everyone. The film is not so daring, it makes a safe bet, it brings back concepts that worked and the narrative is much more familiar and emotional.

I wouldn't say that '-1' is the 'anti-shin', but probably Toho, realizing that Shin was relatively successful and recognized in the West, dreamed bigger this time. Yamazaki seems to have intentionally made a film to please the public (while Anno didn't seem to care much about that, and wanted to tell his own story, with all the weirdness and innovations, regardless of how it resonated with the fandom). Yamazaki probably observed the criticism of Shin Godzilla and thought 'I will deliver the film they are wanting'.

This difference in intentionality between the two projects is what makes them difficult to compare. It's almost as if Shin wasn't intended to be a 'Godzilla' film as we know it, while '-1' was the film the fandom was asking for. It is logical that the second will tend to be better received. This is a fact. But perhaps those who didn't like Shin (despite all its creative and tonal shifts) could recognize the film's quality as a film. Is the movie very good. But it's not what you wanted it to be.

Another thing that could count against Shin here is the fact that Toho repeated the experimental approachand and and tried again in bold and strange reinterpretations in the animated trilogy and Singular Point.

After that, we had almost a decade where the most traditional Godzilla we had was from American productions. Everyone wanted a more familiar Godzilla made by Toho, and Minus One – intentionally –set out to do this. Was like offering water to someone who are dying of thirst. A positive response is almost inevitable.

This was eloquently put. There just… Isn’t really a comparison to be made here between Shin and Minus One, aside from surface level aspects. They’re radically different takes on the IP that were created with two different mission statements. Minus One is an easier film for the common person to digest than Shin, yet that doesn’t in turn make the latter a bad movie nor demean its quality. One film is a radical, unconventional, and unorthodox approach to Godzilla, whereas the other is a safer film that nails all of the beats that makes Godzilla what it is. Neither approaches are bad, clearly, as we have two very great films that came from said differing stratagems.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

Pros of Minus One
- Much, much better characters. The main protagonist gets a full arc and the supporting cast feel like real people. Shin's main protagonist is pretty good but rather underdeveloped and the supporting cast is paper thin. Most interesting Shin character is Goro Maki, who never actually shows up onscreen (unless he IS Godzilla...)
- Better pacing. Shin grinds to a halt between its beautiful "atomic breath" scene and the climax. Minus One never loses steam.
- Better visual effects. The CGI in Minus One is near-flawless and quite impressive for the most part. Shin's CGI was more hit than miss, but with more awkward looking shots than Minus One.
- A much more thrilling climax. It's always more engaging to see our protagonists throw themselves into peril than to have them watch from a rooftop miles away.
- A better Godzilla design and portrayal. I like Shin's look, but it often looks lifeless in execution due to barely moving its upper body. Minus One not only has a better design but seemed much more animalistic and lifelike due to actually moving and using all parts of its body.
- It engaged me emotionally. I felt for the characters. I got invested in the plot. Shin kept me engaged but the only emotion I really felt was a sense of giddiness when Godzilla goes full god of destruction. I didn't really care about the characters, even though I liked Yaguchi well enough.
- Better music. As beautiful as "Who Will Know" is, Shin's other OST is rather forgettable and the use of stock Ifukube music felt out of place to me. On the other hand, Minus One has a solid OST and the use of stock Ifukube music actually fit where it was inserted.

Pros of Shin
- The "atomic breath" scene is better. Minus One's was still pretty awesome (love the spines jutting out before he fires) but Shin's is almost unbeatable, especially thanks to the beautiful music that accompanies it. That scene remains possibly my favorite in any Godzilla film.
- Better political commentary. Some have complained that Minus One seems to disregard everything going on outside of Japan and barely even makes mention of the USA. While that didn't bother me, Shin definitely goes deeper with its condemnation of Japanese bureaucracy as well as putting some focus on the nation's complex relationship with the US.
- More distinct visual style. To be clear, I think Yamazaki is an excellent director and Minus One was a beautiful film. But I feel that Shin's cinematography is slightly more memorable, thanks to Higuchi's distinctive touch. Maybe I'll change my mind after subsequent viewings of Minus One, I guess we'll see.

Minus One is the pretty clear winner here for me, though it'll ultimately come down to whether you prefer a character-driven Godzilla movie or one that's more focused on political satire. I'm just happy that both of Toho's most recent live-action Godzilla films have been winners. Definitely a return to form after two decades of mixed bags and then a whole decade of nothin'.

[Jomei]

Design-wise, I'd still give it to Shin, but Minus One is an excellent "safe" modern interpretation. I really have no negative notes for either, and they fit their films perfectly.

One other thing people have glossed over is the comparison of the "other" Godzilla forms. Kamata-kun's rampage is one of the very best sequences in Shin Godzilla, and although people somehow ignore this (I think just repeating things they've heard other commentators say), this scene shows a lot of on-the-ground destruction and its impacts on people.

And although I do like the Odo Island proto-G, Kamata-kun is far more iconic and unlike anything we've seen before. Minus One's little Goji is like a much better version of Godzillasaurus or... dare I say it? GINO! Both the premise and the execution are again reminiscent of other things, and while this take is an improvement, it's nowhere near Kamata-kun's level of impact, originality, and grotesque charm. (I'll set the middle stage aside, as it's cool but not as significant.)

[_JNavs_]

That is an interesting point, both protoforms of the character are one of the most talked about aspects in their respective films. With Minus One having a large emphasis from the fans for its jump-scare, terror-inducing Pre-Godzilla introduction. While Kamata-Kun slugging through the city while it's in obvious pain gave the fans a sense of gore and disgust which is an equally valid response.

[Omegamorph]

and it doesn't play the same mise en scene trick twice).

Vocabulary: expanded. What trick are you referring to?

I've counted at least three instances of Godzilla getting hit, or disappearing after a blast, cut to surrounding people saying "oh did we hit/kill him?" and then he pops up again and smashes something. Similarly, I felt that some moments could've had tighter editing. The continuous stream of reaction shots in the finale for each thing happening felt redundant. Overall, the vibe is that of an inexpert hand, although I'm sure that's not the case (not familiar with any of the director's other films). Shin was on the other hand made by a seasoned and proved filmmaker and does everything it wants to do expertly (of course not without certain things that could've been refined -- that's always the case with most films at large).

With that said Minus One goes in this direction that I always love, it turns Godzilla into a personal ID monster for the main character, whose internal struggles and angst are mirrored with Godzilla's rampage -- Godzilla is "his war". So the movie becomes a character study with Godzilla. Superb!

The design is also growing on me, although there are things that are a bit hit-and-miss (such as the proportions of the torso, and I'm not sure how I feel about the piston plates) I love that they got that Heisei-like head, and the spines don't bother me as much as they did when I first saw it. Loved that the pre-mutation version was more dinosaur-like and reverse engineered from the final stage Godzilla. Some of the animation was far too fast and looked cartoony, but then again Shin also suffered from two or three instances where the animation was clunky, and the overall effects work is absolutely more interesting and entertaining to watch than the Legendary versions (or any modern high end film).

[Jomei]

TWhile Kamata-Kun slugging through the city while it's in obvious pain gave the fans a sense of gore and disgust which is an equally valid response.

[The Zilla in Manila]

I CAN'T CHOOSE. I LOVE THEM BOTH OH SO MUCH.

[miguelnuva]

Kamata-kun nearly made the rest of my family turn Shin off, I had to reassure them the deformed Turkey wasn't going to be on screen long. They did like the build up to Kamata-kun and the government's reaction.

With Proto G the only problem they had was why is he bent over like G98 until I explained that he hasn't transformed yet.

Somone told me a long time ago and I think this statement stuck with me, Shin looks like a creature that saw Godzilla out at sea and then decided it wanted to turn into Godzilla.

It could also be Anno's style as he likes Gods appearing and then not explaining where they came from where as I like knowing as much about characters as possible.

[gottatalktothefake]

Minus one is far and away the better option IMO. I’ve never been this engaged with human characters in a kaiju movie before

[tbeasley]

Have to say never thought I'd see 'literal theropod dinosaur mutates into Godzilla' again after Heisei. But I don't think Minus One was meant to act as the 'anti-Shin' so much as they knew that film did one thing, so they had to do another, much like Shin itself after the 2014 film.

- Shin had a fairly grotesque Godzilla, so they went with a more traditional look, albeit with its own flair.

- Shin had artillery fire literally bounce off Godzilla, while this one can take damage but heals quickly.

- Shin had a brutal, drawn-out atomic breath sequence, reminiscent of a firebombing, while Minus One has a faster (yet equally brutal) 'in the blink of an eye' effect of an actual atomic bomb. This could also act as a nod to the mushroom cloud scene in GMK.

- Another nod to GMK could be the movable fins (you can barely see it, but the GMK suit could wiggle its fins around), but it also made me think of fuel rods being removed from a reactor, allowing Godzilla to go ‘fully nuclear.’

[BrazilianKaiju]

This was eloquently put. There just… Isn’t really a comparison to be made here between Shin and Minus One, aside from surface level aspects. They’re radically different takes on the IP that were created with two different mission statements. Minus One is an easier film for the common person to digest than Shin, yet that doesn’t in turn make the latter a bad movie nor demean its quality. One film is a radical, unconventional, and unorthodox approach to Godzilla, whereas the other is a safer film that nails all of the beats that makes Godzilla what it is. Neither approaches are bad, clearly, as we have two very great films that came from said differing stratagems.

Thanks!

Design-wise, I'd still give it to Shin, but Minus One is an excellent "safe" modern interpretation. I really have no negative notes for either, and they fit their films perfectly.

One other thing people have glossed over is the comparison of the "other" Godzilla forms. Kamata-kun's rampage is one of the very best sequences in Shin Godzilla, and although people somehow ignore this (I think just repeating things they've heard other commentators say), this scene shows a lot of on-the-ground destruction and its impacts on people.

And although I do like the Odo Island proto-G, Kamata-kun is far more iconic and unlike anything we've seen before. Minus One's little Goji is like a much better version of Godzillasaurus or... dare I say it? GINO! Both the premise and the execution are again reminiscent of other things, and while this take is an improvement, it's nowhere near Kamata-kun's level of impact, originality, and grotesque charm. (I'll set the middle stage aside, as it's cool but not as significant.)

Shin is almost my definitive Godzilla design. I really liked how they brought back the concept of portraying an atomic bomb victim. I like that his skin is made of keloids instead of scales, and that the silhouette of his head resembles the nuclar mushroom when Shin is viewed from the front.

I also like the idea of it being a creature suffering the effects of the radiation that gives it power. It's tragic and highlights the 'human guilt' factor, which is one of the most important messages that the original Godzilla brings: he is the consequence and personification of a human atrocity.

The only thing I would change about him would be his arms, which I see no reason to be atrophied, the red cracks in his skin (it would be better if this only appeared in a state of overheating, referring to Godzilla on fire) and his eyes which are very artificial (a black dot on a white background).

Minus one design is also in the top 3. Here(as far as I've seen, without having seen the film) we don't have this approach to Godzilla as a suffering victim. It looks more natural/healthy. Still, it's a very good design, and I could easily accept that Shin's next form would come close to this.

The only thing they both fail in is the absence of an ears!

[G.H.B]

Have to say never thought I'd see 'literal theropod dinosaur mutates into Godzilla' again after Heisei.

While he has a theropodesque stance, I think the “Protogodzilla” or “Gojira” is something far weirder than a giant theropod. Even before the mutation he comes off like something preternatural and otherworldly. The healing factor alone is low key Eldritch.

[Jomei]

and his eyes which are very artificial (a black dot on a white background).

I mean, certain details are meant to directly evoke the original.

They did make the eyes smaller, though, probably to add creepiness and avoid any shred of cuteness the old suits had.

[MC_Lovecraft]

Shin is a creature I love as a monster but hate as a Godzilla. Yes, I think it looks like a giant sea cucumber made of cancer and teeth, but my issue is the personality, or lack thereof. Even in the original, at his most evil, Godzilla was an character, whereas Shin is an event. Now obviously, that's the whole point, but I think it's lead Toho to attempt to reproduce that success with their other "emotionless strider" Godzillas devoid of Shin's context. Fortunately, Minus One has broken that streak. I look forward to a series of mad-as-Hell Godzillas now.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Design-wise, I'd still give it to Shin, but Minus One is an excellent "safe" modern interpretation. I really have no negative notes for either, and they fit their films perfectly.

One other thing people have glossed over is the comparison of the "other" Godzilla forms. Kamata-kun's rampage is one of the very best sequences in Shin Godzilla, and although people somehow ignore this (I think just repeating things they've heard other commentators say), this scene shows a lot of on-the-ground destruction and its impacts on people.

And although I do like the Odo Island proto-G, Kamata-kun is far more iconic and unlike anything we've seen before. Minus One's little Goji is like a much better version of Godzillasaurus or... dare I say it? GINO! Both the premise and the execution are again reminiscent of other things, and while this take is an improvement, it's nowhere near Kamata-kun's level of impact, originality, and grotesque charm. (I'll set the middle stage aside, as it's cool but not as significant.)

That's a great point. I know it's brief, but many people also tend to ignore the first and third form's destruction as well. The first form inflicts damage on the Tokyo Aqualine, a major transportation passage and leads to the grounding of one of the busiest airports in Japan. Likewise, while the third form mostly stands still, I absolutely love that moment where it retreats into the sea and smashes through the buildings.

I agree that the -1.0 pre-nuke form is a better version of GINO/Godzillasaurus.

Just to point out another similarity, Shin Godzilla and Godzilla -1.0 both have Godzilla "fight" apex military vehicles for their time. While very different in execution, in both films advanced military weapons appear (Takao and Stealth Bombers) and for a moment seem to save the day. It's a brief fight, and few people mention the stealth bombers action scene. I think the -1.0 Takao scene, is a lot more dynamic, and immensely exciting in the moment, but the Stealth Bombers scene is something that doesn't get brought up enough. It's very exciting to see Godzilla engage with them. If we include the tanks in -1.0 in this discussion its all very similar. I mention all these scenes of Shin destroying things and fighting with stealth bombers because people seem to act like Shin has no action or hype moments.

[Spirit Ghidorah 2010]

As much as I love the shit out of Minus One, I found that I need to be in a specific state of mind to watch it. The movie is heavy and emotionally draining, and I kinda need to watch a cartoon or play a game as a palate cleanser else I'll be low-key depressed for the rest of the day.

Shin-Godzilla isn't like that. It also deals with heavy themes and has its own share of sobering moments, but it's also something I can watch to unwind after a hard day at work. The black humor, rocking soundtrack, and the absence of main characters getting their shit ruined absolutely helps.

This is in no way a criticism of Minus One. If I had a hypothetical essentials collection to show someone who's interested in the franchise, Minus One would probably make that list instead of Shin. But in terms of just sheer happiness and good feelings, Shin would be the one I'd pop in.

Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san. I'm sure someone's gonna take that out of context.

[HeiseiGodzilla117]

Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san. I'm sure someone's gonna take that out of context.

Noooo. I don't think anybody would do something like that.

[NSZ]

I would hardly count a series of nameless, one-off extras that all cease to exist the moment the camera cuts away as actual characters providing a civilian perspective. Shin's actual characters (and boy, am I being generous with "actual characters" for some of them) are 95% exclusively politicians (many of whom never actually end up in Godzilla's path at any point), and getting me to give a rat's ass about that many Suit & Ties is a Herculean Task, and Anno ain't Herc.

[Jomei]

I'm not sure who said it shows "the civilian perspective." LSD and I did discuss sequences that show "the impact on civilians." You're right that those are different in important ways. Shin Godzilla... quite clearly focuses on the perspectives of the government and military and how they'd respond in a contemporary Godzilla attack. That is the entire premise of the film.

I have no love for IRL government whatsoever. I guess I can just set that aside for fiction.