Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

For the discussion of Shin Godzilla, Godzilla -1.0, the anime trilogy, Godzilla Singular Point and Toho produced and distributed films after 2015. Includes US movies financed by Toho like Detective Pikachu.
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WHICH IS BETTER

Shin Godzilla
12
15%
Godzilla Minus One
70
85%
 
Total votes: 82

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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by Cookson »

Godzilla165 wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:21 pm They’re just entirely different films, with the only outward similarities between being they both have Godzilla in them, and they’re both set in Japan. Shin Godzilla is just as good to me as the first time I saw it in theaters, and the consecutive rewatches since then. Having seen Minus One now, it doesn’t change my feelings on Shin, because it can’t; they’re too different to compare without me personally feeling disingenuous.

What we have in our hands now, from my point of view, are two modern Toho-produced Godzilla films that are genuinely excellent, and for different reasons. One is a thought provoking political satire, while the other is a thought provoking and moving character piece. I can still sit down with Shin post-Minus One and enjoy it thoroughly, not sitting there comparing it to the latter in an attempt to pick through it (not saying that’s what anyone here is doing).

Both films are excellent!
Exactly my thoughts.

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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by Kaijucifer »

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 7:50 pm
Kaijucifer wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 7:33 pm You know how this fandom works lol. Nothing is safe. Even Shin can be brought to its knees if the fandom feels like turning its back on it. Dont be too sure that it will be fine. We rival Spider-Man fandom with how much we backpedal on shit. Though some of us remain consistent, that wont always last. I dont think even Minus One as amazing and well crafted as it is, is safe from fandom revisionism.
Speak for yourself.

The fandom has been pretty consistent with their feelings on things historically actually. Godzilla 1998 is still widely disliked, and despite some defenders on here (myself included) Godzilla’s Revenge remains a film to clown upon. Major shifts in opinions are attributable just to being able to see the movies in better quality/the original version.
Perhaps I've been on twitter for too long then because man its tough seeing all these people coming in with hot takes about films the fandom has universally praised.
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by Showa Gyaos »

There's no contest. Minus One does it better because it healthily wraps drama, emotion, terror, and atmosphere in a box with a neat bow.

That being said, I also feel that this is an apples and oranges situation. Shin was somewhat satirical in its delivery. I didn't get that vibe with Minus One. They're different pictures.
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by Saturndusk »

Both movies excel in their targeted approach, it’s just they’re on different ends of the spectrum for what that target is. I think the more personal time with the cast in Minus One gives it the edge though. And the fact that Godzilla in Minus One does have a personality and is anger incarnate is more interesting to me compared to Shin’s bag of evolution tricks.
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by JAGzilla »

Kaijucifer wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 7:11 pm
JAGzilla wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 1:55 pm Minus One almost seemed to be making a conscious effort to be the Anti-Shin. They're just opposite movies in a lot of ways. Each does its own thing very well, and it's hard to even compare them.

Even in terms of personal enjoyment I would have a hard time picking one over the other. No... I don't think I will.
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Yamazaki seems to respect Shin and Toho SURE AS HELL respects Shin. Minus One was absolutely not taking shots at it. It just took an opposite approach in a lot of ways so it could tell a very different story with the solo Godzilla movie concept. And yes, I'm sure it was making an effort to appease people who didn't approve of Shin Godzilla's lack of personality or the cast of politician characters. It was doing things Shin didn't in that regard.

But not because it was dunking on Shin in any way. Shin is one of the the closest things to an objectively good Godzilla movie whether it meets your personal criteria or not.

And I think it's a lot less that the fandom is revisionist and more that tastes change over time. People who were in love with the edgy badassery of the Heisei series as teenagers in the '90s grew up and see the shoddy production values as adults. People who recoiled from the kiddiness of Godzilla's Revenge when they were younger grew up to appreciate its interesting subject matter and whimsical execution. And perspectives shift as more movies are added to the lineup and we're exposed to more new takes and ideas.
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by miguelnuva »

Rewatched Shin today as my family wanted to see it after loving Minus One.

I've now come around on the film. It's a decent Monster film when nice characters and a horrible portrayal of Godzilla imo.

Glad for everyone that likes Shin and I can see a lot of reasons why after a rewatch but that portrayal of Godzilla knocks the film way down for me.

Minus One blows Shin out the wter just like a hypothetical fight between them would go. Minus One might end up being the beat Godzilla film yet in addition surpassing Mothra vs Godzilla as what I feel is the best Godzilla film personally.

As for Shin I don't know why Shin fans act like the film is universally praised. While the majority in Japan loved it t was more mixed with the western fandom which is one reason

Legendary vs Shin took off the way it did in 2016/17.

Minus One has unified the fanbase in a way the Reiwa era had yet to do.

It's great for the franchise we had both films and you can't take away Shin's achievements but it's Minus One's time.
Last edited by miguelnuva on Sun Dec 03, 2023 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

I think one thing I can see and more easily empathize with are people who did not like the portrayal of Godzilla in Shin Godzilla. After seeing Minus One I can understand that people wanted a more animated and lively creature. I disagree that Shin is bad because of its choice to have a Godzilla that is more of moving fortress that simply can’t be deterred, but I don’t think that’s a fault of the film.

I like the purple beam, how it cuts and slices through rows and rows of buildings. I like the transforming, the gnarly teeth and weird body structure. I like the movement of the tail swinging around. If you don’t dig that, that’s fine.

At the same time, please don’t pretend that Shin doesn’t have its hype moments. I can’t tell you if I prefer the minus one big atomic breath scene or shins. They’re very similar but also very different. That goes for the third act too; both have a long stretch where a strategy is devised to stop Godzilla, as well as develop the characters. Depending on your preferences, one will click one for you more than the other.
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by G.H.B »

Kaijucifer wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:34 pm
LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 7:50 pm
Kaijucifer wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 7:33 pm You know how this fandom works lol. Nothing is safe. Even Shin can be brought to its knees if the fandom feels like turning its back on it. Dont be too sure that it will be fine. We rival Spider-Man fandom with how much we backpedal on shit. Though some of us remain consistent, that wont always last. I dont think even Minus One as amazing and well crafted as it is, is safe from fandom revisionism.
Speak for yourself.

The fandom has been pretty consistent with their feelings on things historically actually. Godzilla 1998 is still widely disliked, and despite some defenders on here (myself included) Godzilla’s Revenge remains a film to clown upon. Major shifts in opinions are attributable just to being able to see the movies in better quality/the original version.
Perhaps I've been on twitter for too long then because man its tough seeing all these people coming in with hot takes about films the fandom has universally praised.
Man Twitter is literally the place where bad takes and derangement go to fuck. Get off there for your mental health. Even if I agree with someone there I’ll still tell them off themselves on pure principle lol.

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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Something else I wanted to mention: Shin Godzilla paved the road for -1.0, as in Shin Godzilla did so well that it financed Godzilla -1.0’s production and can be considered to have laid the tracks for the modern Godzilla era to succeed and be where we are now. (The MV also helped too!).
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by JAGzilla »

Shin had the better atomic breath scene because it got there first. It elevated the unleashing of the beam to a new height of "oh shit" moment (following a trend that dates back to GMK at least) and GMO was stuck trying to follow it up for sheer spectacle.
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

JAGzilla wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 2:39 am Shin had the better atomic breath scene because it got there first. It elevated the unleashing of the beam to a new height of "oh shit" moment (following a trend that dates back to GMK at least) and GMO was stuck trying to follow it up for sheer spectacle.
And that beam leads to the lowest point for the characters in the film! It’s very similar in that regard.

Another apples and oranges scenario is that a bulk of Shin Godzilla’s action is ground level on land. Two of -1.0s major moments take place in the ocean.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Sun Dec 03, 2023 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by Spuro »

JAGzilla wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 2:39 am Shin had the better atomic breath scene because it got there first. It elevated the unleashing of the beam to a new height of "oh shit" moment (following a trend that dates back to GMK at least) and GMO was stuck trying to follow it up for sheer spectacle.
Following that logic, shouldn't we consider the atomic breath scene from LPG to be the best? It was the trendsetter. It was with that film, and that scene, that the movies really started to make the atomic breath a scene of build up and spectacle. Shin and Minus One followed in its footsteps, and where they failed to implement the same sense of sheer build up, they more that compensated for that in the scope of destruction that the atomic breath could unleash.
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

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Spuro wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:09 am Following that logic, shouldn't we consider the atomic breath scene from LPG to be the best? It was the trendsetter. It was with that film, and that scene, that the movies really started to make the atomic breath a scene of build up and spectacle. Shin and Minus One followed in its footsteps, and where they failed to implement the same sense of sheer build up, they more that compensated for that in the scope of destruction that the atomic breath could unleash.
Depends on what you're looking for, I guess. G14 may have had better buildup (I don't remember because I haven't seen it since 2016) but Shin definitely had good buildup of its own, and then the awe inspiring destruction eclipses the comparatively moderate impact G14's beam had on the Female MUTO.
Last edited by JAGzilla on Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by miguelnuva »

Minus one's Heat Ray felt more devastating every time it was used for me personally even more so than Shin.

Shin's breath is more devastating but Minus One we see what happens to people including two characters we care for.
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by Godzilla165 »

It’s another apple to banana comparison with the atomic breath sequences for G14 vs Shin and Minus, in my opinion. G14 was indeed the trendsetter for the modern films in terms of making Godzilla’s breath more of an event, and giving it a sense of spectacle because of how frugal he is with it. Both Shin and Minus One took inspiration from that, from the long build up that creates tension in the viewer, to Minus One literally having the charge up start from Godzilla’s tail and working its way up.

Where the apples to bananas comparison comes in is how these sequences make the viewer feel while watching them. Obviously, the atomic breath in G14 is going to have the same destructive presence as Shin or Minus One, because it wasn’t really supposed to. Godzilla wasn’t using it to utterly annihilate the city in G14, but to turn the tide of battle against a powerful foe. It’s an entirely different sensation for the viewer, as we’re supposed to be rooting for Godzilla to use his ultimate attack, feeling increasingly excited as he charges it up and that tension builds more and more.

In both Shin and Minus, although the atomic breath will always be awesome by virtue of it being what it is, we’re still actively rooting against Godzilla successfully using it in either film because of the implications and consequences that will come after. It’s much less a feeling of giddy excitement that those films were presenting, and more of a sense of increasing dread from the viewer, confusion from the characters, and both shock and horror immediately after Godzilla used it for the first time.

For me, the initial atomic breath scenes in all three films are only similar in their long, tension growing build ups, with G14 and Minus having the most similarities between them. The executions and directions they all took after said build up, from the moment that stream of radiation left Godzilla’s mouth, are entirely different. All 3 are pretty unique and can honestly stand on their own. They’re wonderful sequences for entirely different reasons, and served different purposes, so I don’t really consider one, “better” than the other, personally. I love all three for different reasons.
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by Omegamorph »

They're entirely different films, but on a personal level Shin gets the edge (an admittedly difficult one to get!) because of technical superiority when it comes to script, editing, and maybe direction (it certainly doesn't have three thousand slow reaction shots for each dramatic event, and it doesn't play the same mise en scene trick twice). I'm also partial to Anno weirdness. This isn't to diss on Minus One - amazing film
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by MC_Lovecraft »

JAGzilla wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:19 am
Spuro wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:09 am Following that logic, shouldn't we consider the atomic breath scene from LPG to be the best? It was the trendsetter. It was with that film, and that scene, that the movies really started to make the atomic breath a scene of build up and spectacle. Shin and Minus One followed in its footsteps, and where they failed to implement the same sense of sheer build up, they more that compensated for that in the scope of destruction that the atomic breath could unleash.
Depends on what you're looking for, I guess. G14 may have had better buildup (I don't remember because I haven't seen it since 2016) but Shin definitely had good buildup of its own, and then the awe inspiring destruction eclipses the comparatively moderate impact G14's beam had on the Female MUTO.
I'd have liked Shin's better if I hadn't already seen almost literally the same thing in NGE. ;)

I consider G'14 the gold standard of atomic breath scenes, but that might be because of the sound system I first experienced it with. That theater was vibrating during the charge up. 8-)

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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

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Omegamorph wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 6:14 am and it doesn't play the same mise en scene trick twice).
Vocabulary: expanded. What trick are you referring to?
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by _JNavs_ »

Minus Ones atomic breath scenes are nothing short of breath-taking. To the point where the breath itself was almost its own character. It was certainly its own destructive force.

A laser beam light show is amazing, and those are points surely deserved by Shin. But just by the very nature of it, straight lasers are not as interesting as an anti-gravity beam of pure atomic energy that completely eliminates the sound barrier and then redistributes the energy as a nuke wherever it stops.

Where Shin excels is the sound design of said lasers. But again, the absence of sound is much more impactful when the boom finally hits.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Sun Dec 03, 2023 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla Minus One VERSUS Shin Godzilla - Who Does It Best - SPOILERS

Post by Jomei »

I'm clearly known for being Shin Godzilla's hype man, but I'm not going to say Shin's beams are "better" than Minus One's. I do think the overall scene in which it happens is more powerful. Visually, it's just one of the coolest sequences and most chilling scenes in Godzilla history. And this is the most destruction Godzilla has ever wreaked in one single scene. "A god incarnate."

But Minus One's beam attack is also impressive for obvious reasons: in the context of the film, it is literally like another atomic bomb denotation at least for the people around Ginza. And the small scale of the creature lets us see more of what happens on the ground, which works super well for that film's approach with Godzilla as the incarnation of the bomb.
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