Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Post by king_ghidorah »

HedorahIsBestGirl wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 6:51 am
Spuro wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:05 pm
Angilasman wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:57 pm Not since Godzilla vs. Biollante and not until Shin Godzilla would you have a film in the franchise so clearly a cut above in quality.
If you ask me, GMK is easily better than both. But I'd get eaten alive for that take, I'm sure.
GMK is easily better than Biollante. The flaws in GvB are far more numerous and detrimental than those in GMK. I'll take it over Shin, too, but I think that's more arguable. All three make my top ten at this point but, as much as I've warmed up to it in the last 5 years, GvB just barely makes #10.
Hard to rank them against each other. I’ll just say I love all three of them and they’re all in my top 10 or just outside my top 10.

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Post by Legion1979 »

A decent premise, a moody atmosphere and generally very good, experimental effects are all Biollante has going for it, but apparently that's enough for most fans today.

Otherwise the film is a mess. From the direction to the acting to the abundance of characters to the film and music editing, the whole thing doesn't come together as a competent film.

I really do like the movie, but I don't consider it top tier the way others do.

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Post by edgaguirus »

I enjoy both films. GMK and GvsB both have a family themed core to anchor the story. Biollante does it in a Frankenstein fashion, while GMK does it in a more traditional way.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

I started watching GMK on Japanese Hulu last night. Only made it about 30 mins in, but it looks absolutely fantastic. Not sure if this is the HD version or what.

The opening to the film is so powerful, with having the music line up so perfectly. Like how it transitions when the Admiral is walking down the hall, then into the news crew, and then Yuki in Shibuya looking up at the screen, before then going into the scene with the submarines. It's snappy and introduces us to the characters.

I know the film has some compositing issues later with Godzilla, but that scene where Baragon digs and attacks the bikers is really really effective. It really feels like Baragon is there, and it's a great.


I didn't realize it before, but the place that Baragon attacks, I think, is someplace similar/where I've been before. After living in Japan for a while now I can really visualize and understand the movement of the monsters and how everything clicks into place. Baragon isn't near Tokyo when the film begins. The old man is imprisoned in Yamanashi prefecture. Baragon travels from Niigata through Nagano. Also, many of the people who are killed by the monsters and have strange weird cameos are famous actresses and singers. An example is the girl/woman who survives the Godzilla attack only to later be killed by Godzilla's tail.

One thing I thought was funny was how the two men clearly hate each other. When I watched this in the past, with subtitles, I was too busy reading to notice the angry glance the BS Digital Q cameraman gave Yuki's probable boyfriend when he showed up at the barbecue place. Later on the train they give each other really annoyed glances.

I'll probably pick up where I left off, or restart the movie from the beginning. I stand by that GMK is probably better than the first two Gamera films and it will ultimately depend on preference or flare of whether Gamera 3 or GMK is better.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Wed Oct 25, 2023 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Post by HedorahIsBestGirl »

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 3:54 pm I stand by that GMK is probably better than the first two Gamera films and it will ultimately depend on preference or flare of whether Gamera 3 or GMK is better.
As someone who loves all four films, I agree with this. GOTU is a special movie for me because it was my first Gamera movie and one of the first Heisei era kaiju films I saw, as well as one of my childhood favorites. It's still a great movie, but GMK definitely has more to offer, from overall better effects to more developed characters to more impressive kaiju fights.

Legion and GMK are similar movies in many ways and I kinda feel like GMK is Legion done better. Both very much feel like "kaiju war" movies, with one of the principal characters being an officer in the JSDF and the films both placing heavy focus on coordinated military efforts to stop Legion/Godzilla. In both cases, they're ultimately forced to place their trust in guardian monster(s) to stop the big bad. Where GMK succeeds that Legion does not is, once again, the human element. Legion's characters are very forgettable, its biggest downfall; GMK's human cast is among its greatest strengths.

I do favor Iris over GMK but not by a huge margin. Iris is my #2 kaiju film of all time and GMK is like... fourth, probably. I think you were the one who made the post about how it's a somewhat unfair comparison since Iris was able to build off two films, while GMK had to tell a standalone story. Definitely a fair point; Iris is great but it's less great without the foundation of the first two films. As standalone kaiju films go, I really think GMK is the best since 1954.

I know some others have recently voiced that GMK is overrated but, respectfully, I strongly disagree. If anything, it's overhated by the vocal minority who reject this movie because of soulless Godzilla and good guy Ghidorah. I feel its many merits vastly outweigh the same few flaws that people are always picking apart. :Baragon:
The wisest words ever spoken on TK: "When I Saw The Showa Movie's white My Friend's They seid WTF is This Your showing Me to Men Fighting In suit's they found At party city Butt when I Showed Them The Heisei film's they thoght They where pritty fun To Watch"

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

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Finished this last night. I want to note I watched some really high quality version.

I've alluded to this before, noting that the film borrows a few select shots from Varan pretty much 1:1, but there's also what might be some references to older Showa stuff. For example, when Baragon attacks the prison, there's a cop that starts firing a hand pistol at the monster. The framing is very similar to something similar that happens in The Mysterians. When Baragon is fighting Godzilla, after the helicopter crash, there is a moment where the area is lit aflame, and it's evocative of the ending of Frankenstien vs. Baragon, when the forest is on fire. Also, I can't believe it took me this long, but the Q part of BS Digital Q is probably a homage to Ultra Q.

I thought there were some compositing and effects issues, but other than a weird CGI warship, and a brief moment where the fishing boat falls in front of Godzilla, the film's effects are so so good. Monsters look very big in moments, like when King Ghidorah rises in front of the ghostly old man, or Baragon is seen through the destruction of the prison. Honestly, some parts of the movie, like when Godzilla is shown through a taxi-drivers car, look "real".

This time around I realized how subdued the film is. Continuing the comparisons to Heisei Gamera, while Godzilla is clearly one of the most destructive things on Earth, and could possibly destroy all Japan, the stakes are much lower than Hyper-Evolving Mutant Reptiles breeding and destroying the world, or Space Insects colonizing and transforming the Earth. Likewise, the monsters are smaller, as are the locales. The monsters early on cause trouble in smaller locales. Godzilla attacks a port city, rampages a bit, and then winds up in Yokohama. While Yokohama is a big city, it's not as big as Tokyo or even Osaka. Godzilla, in comparison to the Heisei incarnation, or even any of the later Showa takes, isn't so powerful on paper. He has a standard atomic breath (with good aim!), but no nuclear pulse. He appears to be vulnerable more to conventional weaponry. I think this works towards the films benefit though, as everything is appropriately "scaled" towards that threat. What makes this Godzilla very nasty is that it seems to have some sort of "psychic awareness" of its surroundings and might be one of the most intelligent Godzillas. Godzilla fakes out Mothra twice, aware that it's creeping up from him from behind. Godzilla seems to be aware that the submarines are targeting him, and angles it so the D3 missiles hit one of Ghidorah's necks. It seems that King Ghidorah's lighting beams really did start to injure Godzilla, but Godzilla quickly realized how to deal with it and absorbed KG's energy, mimicking how KG re-directed Godzilla's energy back at it earlier in the film. I swear the first few times I watched this I didn't understand how Godzilla defeated Godzilla and now it feels very purposeful. I watched a high quality copy, and you can see Godzilla's spines absorb the energy, and then the beam he fires has a golden tinge to it.

Likewise, Baragon, Mothra, and even King Ghidorah are kind of pathetic. Baragon at most temporarily deters Godzilla by digging tunnels and giving him a good chomp. Likewise, all Mothra can do is fire projectiles and scratch Godzilla which seems to not do more than mildly annoy him. Ghidorah was the only monster that was able to actually attack Godzilla, and it's the only monster in the film capable of actually wounding Godzilla in any substantial way. On top of that, King Ghidorah needs not one, but two power boosts. Once from Mothra's energy gathering around Ghidorah, and another from Yuri's stone. None of this is a complaint or detracts from my enjoyment of the film. It really adds to it. The military is pretty small too. The military has like main ships, some jets, and a platform armed with D-3 weaponry. A crucial part of the final act is waiting and setting up to launch a counter offensive.

The D-3 weaponry and the Satsuma sub are the only "special" weapons that the military has at their disposal, and I can imagine something like the D-3 weapon really working and existing if it doesn't already. The sense of "this is modern real-world Japan juxtaposes nicely with the ghost-story like elements of the first half.

Also, there's been a lot of debate over a subtitled word, "souls of those lost during WW2", and historically I've seen this re-interpreted in the worst possible ways. This time, watching it RAW, the person who says that lists out a few groups, "Americans" (米国), people who died during the atomic bomb, victims of Japan, and what I think was a reference to Imperial Japanese soldiers themselves. The idea is that the lingering resentment and negative energy, not the actual actions and or motivations, lead to Godzilla, being resurrected. Some might recall a Godzilla manga from the Godzilla Comic, Warning From G, and that comic I believe may have inspired this film, or Kaneko or someone drew inspiration from the same source. In that, the negativity from the "spirit world" spilled over into our reality and resurrected Godzilla. Kaneko seemed to be interested in Japanese occultism and new age doomsday movements in late 90's, and it certainly plays a role in Gamera 3. But, Godzilla, Mothra, King Ghidorah: Giant Monsters All Out Attack fully embraces these ideas and mysticism.

I have to say, I realized upon this rewatch this movie might have the most satisfying conclusion of any Godzilla film. The military and guardian monsters gradually weaken Godzilla down, but the tension remains. No matter if Godzilla is temporarily pushed back up, he gets up and swats Mothra away or tosses KG away. The decisive blow is Ghidorah getting energy from Mothra to blast Godzilla into the ocean, so that the Satsuma can enter and launch an attack from the inside. Meanwhile Ghidorah is continually rising up, only to be blown back. Right when everything seems absolutely hopeless, the guardian monsters launch some weird attack on Godzilla*. Yuri, through projection* saves her father who prepares to attack from the inside. Godzilla rising up from the ocean, getting ready to blast Yuri and her boyfriend is the height of extreme tension contrasted with relief. Tachibana saves his daughter and contributes, if not lands the final blow. I really think the way the film in like the last five minutes ends on the apex of tension, only for a solid victory that was well earned and built up to, makes it one of the best defeats of Godzilla to date.

*I've always wondered what exactly is going on there, but I think my latest interpretation is that the spiritual energy, even after the body is destroyed, is trying its hardest to attack Godzilla. If you at the moment after Godzilla is hit with that strange attack, he seems to be reacting to things around him, almost as if souls are pulling him back into the sea. Likewise, after Tachibana explodes Godzilla's shoulder and the beam comes out, it's almost as though the beam has pushed Godzilla back into the water, and that the Gaurdian monsters/souls can drag him down to the depths. The victory is definite, but exactly what happens is slightly up to interpretation without detracting from the action or emotional stakes.

*I wondered this time if we were supposed to take Yuri being in the submarine as literally, or if this is just a case of Tachibana hallucinating in a moment before death. Obviously, Yuri isn't actually there, but the mystical elements call into question of the film do lend to the possibility that somehow Yuri, after believing in the guardian monsters throughout the film, has somehow been able to astral project her soul and save her father. This is a film filled with ghosts and spirituality so I don't think it's impossible. Either way, it's a great moment.

A lot of the other Godzilla films unfortunately fall victim to lackluster and or poor conclusions to otherwise great fights and sequences of fights. While there might be reasons why these choices are made, the climactic fight of Godzilla vs. Destoroyah ends in a lame way. Many Godzilla films end with Godzilla being dragged back into the sea, and while that sort of happens here, it's much more unique and visually exciting. Everything clicks together in such a nice fashion, both the Guardian Monsters, Yuri and Tachibana, and even the people Yuri met along the way.

I think GMK is in the running for the best Godzilla film, and it's definitely one of my favorites. I don't think it's an easy argument to say if it's better than Gamera 3, but I could very easily understand people thinking this is their favorite Godzilla film or holding it up for high praise. The only other recent Godzilla film that comes close is Shin Godzilla, and it'll largely depend on your preferences if that film is better or worse to you.

Anyways, Godzilla Minus One is out next week for me. If it can be at least half as good as GMK I'll be happy.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Post by king_ghidorah »

Love your thoughts man.

On another note. Do you guys think GMK is a collective consciousness orrrrr….is the anger and souls of the WW2 dead what fuels him, similar to what radiation does in most films.

I think it’s the later personally…

Also. We desperately need a 4k of this. The blu ray still has a dvd like image.
Last edited by king_ghidorah on Fri Oct 27, 2023 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

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Great review, LSD. Lots of insight there, and puts parts of the movie in a new light for me. It's been a minute since my last viewing, and I really want to rewatch it now and re-evaluate some of the things I never paid attention to or appreciated. I agree that the finale is handled well and everything wraps up very satisfyingly. It's also cool to finally have someone who understands Japanese clear up the fog around the identity of the spirits possessing Godzilla.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Post by edgaguirus »

Some people believe negative energy can effect a location. If Kaneko is interested in that subject, he made good use of it here.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Post by king_ghidorah »

I’m glad this film is having to grow in some people. I was kind of meh on it originally. Over time though I’ve grown to like it more and more

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

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Just watched this again to prep for Minus One. I don't know if I ever realized how presciently a post-9/11 movie this is for a movie that must've had most if not all the filming done before 9/11 even happened. The constant emphasis on news coverage put me right back at being 13 and watching just news coverage for like three years. The Guardian Beasts protecting the 'homeland' (or rather, the Japanese term this is translated as) reminds me of the quasi-mythical gloss the Bush administration explicitly and not-so-explicitly threw over the war on terror when using the term.

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

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I like how Yuri's story plays out in this one. We've had journalist characters before, but her performance is more personal than other reporters are. She starts out making pseudo news about the unknown, and then comes across something bigger that soon effects everyone. Like an embedded reporter, she risks her life to keep the people informed as well as helping the guardians. The close relationship with her father is a great touch as well.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

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edgaguirus wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:43 pm I like how Yuri's story plays out in this one. We've had journalist characters before, but her performance is more personal than other reporters are. She starts out making pseudo news about the unknown, and then comes across something bigger that soon effects everyone. Like an embedded reporter, she risks her life to keep the people informed as well as helping the guardians. The close relationship with her father is a great touch as well.
Not sure if this is intentional, but I just realized there’s surface level similarities between her and Audrey from 1998. Her story arc of not being a legitimate journalist and trying to thrust herself into the action Is very similar.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Post by MC_Lovecraft »

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:47 pm
edgaguirus wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:43 pm I like how Yuri's story plays out in this one. We've had journalist characters before, but her performance is more personal than other reporters are. She starts out making pseudo news about the unknown, and then comes across something bigger that soon effects everyone. Like an embedded reporter, she risks her life to keep the people informed as well as helping the guardians. The close relationship with her father is a great touch as well.
Not sure if this is intentional, but I just realized there’s surface level similarities between her and Audrey from 1998. Her story arc of not being a legitimate journalist and trying to thrust herself into the action Is very similar.

I wish we'd go back to the journalist-as-protagonist tradition Toho had for a while. As people whose job it is to find the truth and bring it to the masses, I think it'd be a very appropriate thematic approach for modern Godzilla films, what with the world and the profession the way it is these days.

Now how's this for a controversial take? GMK is simultaneously the best and most overrated of the Millennium Series. :P

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Post by goji4ever »

Still one of my favorite Godzilla films.. Visually its great, once you get over pudge godzilla the framing of the shots coupled with the effects are outstanding.. Perhaps later films in the millenium series had higher budgets and more “advanced” effects but the execution and creative cinematography of GMK keeps it clear above its peers..at most I would remove the shot of Godzilla swatting Baragon through the air (or edit it differently) as it stands in stark contrast to everything else in the film.
After all this time its still amazing how Kaneko managed to create such a great product despite the miserably short turn around time he we was given by Toho… with sufficient post production time this film had the chops to be head and shoulders above what the franchise accomplished (in many ways it still is)….
Given how much the director of Minus One reveres this film it wouldnt be too surprising if he treads a similar path as GMK if given the chance to make another film where he introduces even more monsters.

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

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Hey so it looks like the main site staff got a bunch of stuff translated! This is awesome. I've only now gotten a chance to look at it:
https://www.tohokingdom.com/blog/godzil ... nslations/

I have a lot to say, but I'd first like to discuss the base proposal, which all drafts begin with, and even GMK seems to have. The main thing is that while the events of 1954 did happen people have begun to forget about them, and most importantly...1998 definitely happened. In the actual finalized GMK, there's that brief snippet of a Godzilla-like creature attacking NY. I've always argued in the past this doesn't mean much, but rather perhaps just an inside joke or playful jab. Now it's pretty clear: GMK of all things, is weirdly a loose sequel to Godzilla (1998). I understand, probably for legal and commercial reasons, this probably will never be officially acknowledged, but this is incredibly fascinating.

It's not just a playful joke either, it seems like Kaneko had a very specific reason for doing this: Godzilla 1998 starts a fresh slate for monsters appearing in the world after the large gap from 1954. And, while the fantasy/ghost story was added later, 1998 makes more sense in the context of the M drafts. From my loose understanding, it also seems like the 2002 M draft would use this to have a strong Godzilla, but one that was still SOMEWHAT vulnerable to conventional weaponry.

Now, I still, internally consider GMK a standalone film that can be enjoyed entirely on it's own. But, GMK has more contextual and overt references to the events of 1998 being "cannon" then some of the crazier and more outlandish Godzilla continuities. It means that if you wanted to, you could watch a bizarre "technical" trilogy of films of Godzilla (1954), Godzilla (1998), and GMK (2001). Finally, the ultimate Godzilla trilogy!
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:12 pmThe main thing is that while the events of 1954 did happen people have begun to forget about them, and most importantly...1998 definitely happened.
Yeah I found that to be the biggest shocker from Joshua and Noah's work on those proposals. The reference to GODZILLA 1998 in GMK always felt like a throwaway gag, and a sly way to reference it without technically referencing it. From that standpoint, it's fascinating how early on in the proposal work that Kaneko envisioned a connection between his movie and the 1998 one.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

The Virgin Kiryuverse vs CHAD Kanekoverse

I love the idea of Dr Niko Tatapopalous, Victor "Animal" Palotti, Daisuke Serizawa and Kyohei Yamane existing in the same world which, by 2001, has concrete evidence of the Yamata No Orochi being objectively real.
Last edited by Major sssspielberg! on Mon Feb 26, 2024 8:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
Kaltes-Herzeleid wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:44 am I love Final Wars. I praise Final Wars. Simple as.

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Post by Chaos Reincarnation »

If we're entertaining the idea, Kaneko had the chance to beat Final Wars to the punch having the last surviving baby at the end of G98 challenge Godzilla as a full grown adult.

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Post by Handsome Shrek »

Wtf lol

Well... I still don't include Godzilla 1998 in my headcanon for GMK, but that's kinda funny lol

Added in 3 minutes 18 seconds:
So wait, does this mean that GMK and 1954 are canon to Godzilla 1998!? Or is this a "Sony Spiderman" situation where Tom Holland's Spiderman is canon to Venom and Morbius, but Venom and Morbius aren't canon to the Tom Holland films?

Either way, I still don't include it in my headcanon, but it's neat
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