Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

[StardustGenius]

I think a simple edit of Godzilla blasting him with the full power ray could have worked. Also, I agree that the filmed scene looks unimpressive. This is just speculation, though maybe the VS Destoroyah perfection book could add some light to the intended scene. But if the scene was filmed as is, with all the optical printing effects added in you could probably make an effective scene of Godzilla engulfing Destoroyah in flames/energy and vaporizing him.

[miguelnuva]

My only problem with Destroyah is that we are told 3-4 times if he fights Godzilla he'll kill Godzilla. The characters say a OD is the only way to save the world and how badly they need one and how it's the only thing that ever stopped Godzilla. Then Destroyah appears and there is the OD just like Serisawa feared.

Only for the movie to backtrack and say nope Godzilla has become to powerful.

It doesn't bother me and I wouldn't changed the ending its just it seems like Toho even in the trailers were building up this epic last battle and then decided nope Godzilla going to walk through Destroyah.

Destroyah at that point could have been any kaiju. If you watch Gojira and then Destroyah I just feel like the threat level wasn't high enough.

Godzilla is done perfectly, Destroyah seems like Toho dropped the ball.

[StardustGenius]

My only problem with Destroyah is that we are told 3-4 times if he fights Godzilla he'll kill Godzilla. The characters say a OD is the only way to save the world and how badly they need one and how it's the only thing that ever stopped Godzilla. Then Destroyah appears and there is the OD just like Serisawa feared.

Only for the movie to backtrack and say nope Godzilla has become to powerful.

It doesn't bother me and I wouldn't changed the ending its just it seems like Toho even in the trailers were building up this epic last battle and then decided nope Godzilla going to walk through Destroyah.

Destroyah at that point could have been any kaiju. If you watch Gojira and then Destroyah I just feel like the threat level wasn't high enough.

Godzilla is done perfectly, Destroyah seems like Toho dropped the ball.

See I mostly agree with this, but I disagree that Godzilla just steamrolled Destoroyah. Godzilla was on the back foot for most of the fight. Destoroyah was still an overwhelming and powerful enemy. Its just Godzilla got stronger as the fight went on, and he was enraged at what happened to Junior. It was then when Godzilla started to overwhelm Destoroyah. Also, keep in mind Godzilla still takes damage from Destoroyah when he's getting the second wind. It might have been the movie staff's choice to show how furious Godzilla was during the fight. If it seems like Destoroyah panicked, well, I think that might have been the intention! Super overpowered monster character panicking when they start getting outmatched. Its not unique to Godzilla ya know.

[Follinollante]

See I mostly agree with this, but I disagree that Godzilla just steamrolled Destoroyah. Godzilla was on the back foot for most of the fight. Destoroyah was still an overwhelming and powerful enemy. Its just Godzilla got stronger as the fight went on, and he was enraged at what happened to Junior. It was then when Godzilla started to overwhelm Destoroyah. Also, keep in mind Godzilla still takes damage from Destoroyah when he's getting the second wind. It might have been the movie staff's choice to show how furious Godzilla was during the fight. If it seems like Destoroyah panicked, well, I think that might have been the intention! Super overpowered monster character panicking when they start getting outmatched. Its not unique to Godzilla ya know.

Earlier...

As for Godzilla getting pummeled and then pummeling Destoroyah, it's quite clear to me that it is at first a battle between an insanely powered bio-weapon vs. Godzilla, which transitions to said bio-weapon vs. enraged, heartbroken, flaming, nothing-left-to-lose Godzilla. I don't see that there's an issue with the tables getting turned.

I feel like this discussion is entering a vicious circle.

[edgaguirus]

Not the first time that's happened.

Destroyah was taking heavy hits from the atomic ray at the end of the fight. Who wouldn't try to retreat from that kind of situation? It's like in Godzilla vs Gigan. When Gigan was winning, he fought with glee. When it was clear he was going to lose, he flew away. Even kaiju have the instinct to survive.

[Follinollante]

Like any sport, game, argument, etc., for many, it's only fun when you're winning.

[OxygenFan1851]

I decided to make an account to weigh in on this debate here, since I probably disagree with all of you guys and think this qualifies as an "unpopular opinion".

Destroyah should've killed Godzilla. Furthermore the death should have been extremely brutal, like Destroyah should've ripped burning godzilla's head off and then taken a dump down his throat. Junior would also stay dead in this timeline.

And yes, I do genuinely think this would've been a good choice and a better option than what we got. The reason is because I think Godzilla vs Destroyah is a massively disappointing movie in general. Other users have commented about godzilla's death and the movie being all about that but really I don't think that holds any weight. I guess it's kind of difficult to explain but that whole thing they were going for was way too generic, forced, and shallow to actually create any emotion. Like "boo hoo big lizard burns some calories and dies" is never going to trigger any kind of emotional reaction in me, it's just too normie-esque and non-subtle.

So instead of this by-the-books tearjerker attempt toho was going for, they should've shifted to a more inflammatory, Jodorowsky-esque style of filmmaking by doing something in the vein that I propose. Keep the earlier parts of the story similar, make it seem like the movie is going to be an emotional tale about godzilla and his final death and then just rob that dignity. I've noticed (and I'm sure you guys have too) in stuff like the JP/JW and starwars fandoms where there's this weird obsession with treating beloved characters with the "respect" they deserve, which is a notion I think should be attacked. I'd equate this to the spino v. rex fight in JP///, that was a massively awesome and courageous decision, and people where whining about it for the better part of 15 years. There's a certain epicness to basically going "okay, this is my epic OC, and it's literally MORE awesome than *insert beloved franchise icon* so it's going to effortlessly kill it". In a sense when one has the nerve to do a scene like that it does validate it to some degree and make it true. Spinosaurus is now an iconic park of JP's legacy much more so than if it had lost, for example. I'd be willing to explain this part in more detail if anyone likes because I do think it's fascinating.

So yeah that's a quick summary of my thoughts on this matter. I'd like to hear other people's as well.

I also have a bunch more, more general unpopular godzilla related opinions that I think are going to be pretty unliked, so I'll share those later if people are interested.

[miguelnuva]

I decided to make an account to weigh in on this debate here, since I probably disagree with all of you guys and think this qualifies as an "unpopular opinion".

Destroyah should've killed Godzilla. Furthermore the death should have been extremely brutal, like Destroyah should've ripped burning godzilla's head off and then taken a dump down his throat. Junior would also stay dead in this timeline.

And yes, I do genuinely think this would've been a good choice and a better option than what we got. The reason is because I think Godzilla vs Destroyah is a massively disappointing movie in general. Other users have commented about godzilla's death and the movie being all about that but really I don't think that holds any weight. I guess it's kind of difficult to explain but that whole thing they were going for was way too generic, forced, and shallow to actually create any emotion. Like "boo hoo big lizard burns some calories and dies" is never going to trigger any kind of emotional reaction in me, it's just too normie-esque and non-subtle.

So instead of this by-the-books tearjerker attempt toho was going for, they should've shifted to a more inflammatory, Jodorowsky-esque style of filmmaking by doing something in the vein that I propose. Keep the earlier parts of the story similar, make it seem like the movie is going to be an emotional tale about godzilla and his final death and then just rob that dignity. I've noticed (and I'm sure you guys have too) in stuff like the JP/JW and starwars fandoms where there's this weird obsession with treating beloved characters with the "respect" they deserve, which is a notion I think should be attacked. I'd equate this to the spino v. rex fight in JP///, that was a massively awesome and courageous decision, and people where whining about it for the better part of 15 years. There's a certain epicness to basically going "okay, this is my epic OC, and it's literally MORE awesome than *insert beloved franchise icon* so it's going to effortlessly kill it". In a sense when one has the nerve to do a scene like that it does validate it to some degree and make it true. Spinosaurus is now an iconic park of JP's legacy much more so than if it had lost, for example. I'd be willing to explain this part in more detail if anyone likes because I do think it's fascinating.

So yeah that's a quick summary of my thoughts on this matter. I'd like to hear other people's as well.

I also have a bunch more, more general unpopular godzilla related opinions that I think are going to be pretty unliked, so I'll share those later if people are interested.

You took me out of the post when you said rip his head off and took a dump down his throat.

[SpiderZilla]

So instead of this by-the-books tearjerker attempt toho was going for, they should've shifted to a more inflammatory, Jodorowsky-esque style of filmmaking by doing something in the vein that I propose. Keep the earlier parts of the story similar, make it seem like the movie is going to be an emotional tale about godzilla and his final death and then just rob that dignity.

You took me out of the post when you said rip his head off and took a dump down his throat.

I like OxygenFan1851’s reasoning but miguelnuva makes a good point about the eloquence.

[Spirit Ghidorah 2010]

So instead of this by-the-books tearjerker attempt toho was going for, they should've shifted to a more inflammatory, Jodorowsky-esque style of filmmaking by doing something in the vein that I propose. Keep the earlier parts of the story similar, make it seem like the movie is going to be an emotional tale about godzilla and his final death and then just rob that dignity.

You took me out of the post when you said rip his head off and took a dump down his throat.

I like OxygenFan1851’s reasoning but miguelnuva makes a good point about the eloquence.

Speak for yourselves. I'd pay good money to see a kaiju pull a Gunnery Sgt Hartman.

[OxygenFan1851]

You took me out of the post when you said rip his head off and took a dump down his throat.

That's kind of the idea though, it needs to be something drastic, irreverent, and "disrespectful". Something that would literally make people in the theatre start seething with rage and anger.

Anyway I intend to do a lightning round post of more controversial opinions, which I consider far more important than this one and will hopefully open up some much needed discussion on those topics. Nevertheless I don't have time now and must retreat to my chambers so I may have a healthy and restful sleep.

[Follinollante]

I don't see that being different just to be different is by nature a good idea. Being cliche is one thing, but following norms is acceptable. Secondly, I guess I don't see the problem with Godzilla dying a relatively natural death. I'll take you up on your offer and ask you to elaborate on why you think Godzilla should have been killed.
Also, regarding the whole "respect" thing, why shouldn't Godzilla be treated with respect? Or, rather, why should he be treated with disrespect? Not that main characters shouldn't ever be killed off, but what makes dissing important or beloved characters an inherently good choice? (I get what you say about awesome OCs; it makes me sad sometimes when they get whooped, never to return.)
Also, what would happen to Destoroyah after he kills Dad and Junior?

[Legion1979]

I cant help but feel like someone joined yesterday just to be "the guy with the crazy opinions". Because, woof, ripping off Godzilla's head and shitting down his neck? No thanks. Talk about completely ruining a movie. If his other ideas on how to improve these movies are anything like that then...yikes.

[CyberZilla]

I get the IDEA of difference being interesting. But this reads like a Michael Bay kind of idea, where he gives a Cybertronian literal wrecking ball nuts. It feels different in the sense that it’s edgy and gross for the sake of it, to make the audience give a visceral reaction, but not necessarily for a good story reason. The idea of Destoroyah killing Godzilla is a novel one, and there is story potential there, I’ll give credit where that’s due. But NOT in the way you described it. That’s just obscene in a way that drowns the movie’s story potential on the spot. That’s without delving into the fact that the movie’s entire premise hinges on the death of Godzilla. Whatever your problems with the film are, the death scene really is well executed and given its proper weight and focus. I don’t see any reason why replacing that with Destoroyah literally shitting on Godzilla would do anything good for the movie.

[JAGzilla]

You can stay, new guy. You're going to generate some fun conversations.

There's definitely a place in film for edge, shock value, subversion, and irreverence. I think it has to be used sparingly and wisely, though. Choose movies and contexts where it won't be too glaringly inappropriate.

Case in point, we're talking about Godzilla's 40th anniversary, the end of the Heisei series, and quite possibly the final Japanese Godzilla film. The capstone on a long, proud legacy with millions of fans. How would it benefit fans or anyone else for that movie to take a nonsensical turn, yell "GOTCHA, BITCH!", and walk away forever? Why would that be a superior finale? The final scene with a beloved character?

And for the record, I do see the problem with excessive respect. The Walking Dead fell apart because the characters stopped being random survivors with unpredictable fates and became beloved heroes that couldn't die unless that death is loudly telegraphed multiple episodes in advance and we have ample time to say goodbye and pull our shattered emotions back together. That shit sucked. There's definitely a balance to be struck.

The Last Jedi made a good effort. Nothing about that movie was perfect, but I appreciate that they took Luke in an unexpected direction that actually made a lot of sense within the larger Star Wars context. His nonviolent final confrontation with Kylo Ren was probably the best part of the Sequel Trilogy.

Destoroyah randomly shitting on Godzilla because fuck you? I dunno.

[ShinGojira14]

I've noticed (and I'm sure you guys have too) in stuff like the JP/JW and Star Wars fandoms where there's this weird obsession with treating beloved characters with the "respect" they deserve, which is a notion I think should be attacked. I'd equate this to the spino v. rex fight in JP///, that was a massively awesome and courageous decision, and people where whining about it for the better part of 15 years. There's a certain epicness to basically going "okay, this is my epic OC, and it's literally MORE awesome than *insert beloved franchise icon* so it's going to effortlessly kill it". In a sense when one has the nerve to do a scene like that it does validate it to some degree and make it true. Spinosaurus is now an iconic park of JP's legacy much more so than if it had lost, for example. I'd be willing to explain this part in more detail if anyone likes because I do think it's fascinating.

So yeah that's a quick summary of my thoughts on this matter. I'd like to hear other people's as well.

The literal thought process of those who currently write many classic franchise IP's.

[OxygenFan1851]

So to quickly address the points and questions brought up I would first reference what CyberZilla said and disagree there on an important matter. The movie's story has no potential, and the death is not done well, and what you call it being given its "proper focus" is actively a detriment overall. JAGzilla made a similar point too, and what I would say is that that kind of film (i.e. death of a beloved character after so long, given lots of attention, focus, and respect) can never really be a good or interesting movie. It's simply too self-serious, risk-averse, cinematic, and self-aggrandizing.

The first and less important reason I propose what I do is because it breaks this idea of untouchability (this applies on two levels, both within and outside the film's story). One negative thing fandoms do is create a sort of mythological aura around their characters wherein they are seen, especially amongst younger, more impressionable viewers, as epic, untouchable masterpieces. That no one could possibly do any better or create anything similar yet superior. But OF COURSE it's possible to make a better kaiju than Godzilla, it isn't even that difficult for a reasonably intelligent and creative person. This is a broad matter and applies to a lot, not just characters. Gojira is my favorite godzilla film but it's wrong to treat it like it's perfect or that to critique it is somehow folly, there are indeed notable flaws, and of course someone could do better. That's what I was getting at with the JP/// comparison, "stating" that something is better than another character is actually like 50% of the battle in terms of making it true. Let's pretend I published some story ideas that featured kaiju and some people read them. More than likely they would automatically be perceived as subservient to the "main" show, the main big-budget movies and established characters, regardless of their actual quality. But if I dramatically announced that they were far better than any pre-existing manifestation of the concept of kaiju in any work of fiction whatsoever, most people would scoff, but the idea would be planted in their head. They would already consider it a possible option where's if such a statement had not been made it would take far longer (probably until someone ELSE said it) for them to even imagine such a thing. That's how it goes. That which is centered shall become peripheral and that which is at the periphery shall become the center. So doing extreme things like that that break this illusion of superiority would enable a greater creative flourishing and would restore the conditions that actually lead to the creation of something iconic like godzilla in the first place.

The second instance of breaking untouchability is that it would also break this sense of "cinematic correctness" that the film had been crafting. It's a little hard to describe but I think most people know what I mean by that: this sort of phenomenon where the "right" choices are made in filmmaking and things aren't subverted and all is done to make the plot as polished, shiny, and normal (artificial) as possible. That leads to a type of film I at least do not care at all for because it quickly loses the ability to say anything about reality and descends to shallow and unsatisfying escapism. In a sense destroyah killing godzilla and then desecrating his body is more true to life than the alternative and it actually forces the viewer to confront a difficult contradiction (instead of how "correct", speilberg-esque films tend to avoid such moments like the plague). Godzilla lost. His enemy proves superior and, as can happen often in real life, shows no respect or sensitivity and uses the moment to inflict as much humiliation as possible, something the average audience member would perceive to be a cinematic impossibility. What now? Well, we STILL like godzilla, he has touched our hearts in such a way that even the worst possible outcome cannot extinguish that. So everything annoying about the narrative has been destroyed and the emotion is actually preserved more than it was before, because instead of occurring in some sanitized, perfectly created conditions that tell you what emotions to feel and when it occurs in a very real and difficult situation where you have to actually confront and rationalize what happened and how you feel about it.

As for what should happen after, Destroyah should withstand the freezing weapons and destroy Japan's military, then break open a jail and free the worst criminals, who would then walk alongside him and ride on his back. Destroyah would then destroy the city with the implication being that humanity will be eliminated while "Stayin' Alive" plays over the credits.

Also Godzilla vs Hedorah should've ended with Godzilla ripping up Hedorah's corpse until he finds his suit actor and pulls him out (full size).

[OxygenFan1851]

Okay now I'm going to get to the main content so to speak where I'll list some unpopular opinions more or less unrelated to the current point of discussion. I'm not sure what the rules are on double posting but if this gets merged so be it, though I think this is a natural dividing point.

I'm not quite sure how to format this since a lot of these ideas are related. But in large part these points have to do with discussions of "toxicity" in the fandom.

1. I think 95% of complaints about the fandom being "toxic" are either overhyped nonsense or completely misdirected. Like who tf cares if 12 years olds are screaming at each other about how their tastes are superior. Matter of fact it's actually more inspiring to see that in a child than being super meek and passive, because it means they're willing to fight and have intense passion for their preferences.

2. The "we need to be respectful of others' opinions" mantra has gone too far and has gotten to the point where it stifles actual discussion. Opinions can and should be challenged and it's a basic necessity for in-depth discussion, otherwise you just get discord servers where people list their opinions on things and where nothing further happens.

3. Many in the fandom tend to treat films as entirely subjective things from which no accurate appraisal of quality can be made. I think this largely comes from a place of insecurity about their own preferences and a desire to validate themselves and what they believe without having to think about why or come up with any reasons. It also actively removes any incentive for higher standards or more intelligent stories. To be clear I think the quality of stories is both objective and subjective.

4. The people complaining about toxic fans tend to be far worse of a problem than the people they critique. Like if someone has really elitist opinions and is constantly insulting others or trying to put them down like, who cares? Either you ignore them or you fight them and either win or learn something about your own opinions in the process. I think being able to deal with people and situations like that is a basic thing people need to learn to be comfortable with as fundamental as swimming.
The people who complain about these people however, I have not fully characterized so I will attempt to do so here. But they seem incredibly self-serious, humorless, egotistical, dry, and sensitive. Like they tend to take their participation in a godzilla subreddit, server, or forum as some hugely prestigious and formal occasion. They are VERY quick to interpret joking or light teasing as "trolling" (whatever that means) and they generally have little to no tolerance for irreverence or dark humor. I think a lot of such people might have the compulsive personality disorder. I'm just speculating here but I think it's possible that many of them are teenagers who like to think of themselves as very mature and moral. Of course it's mostly just sad because they get super upset and indignant in discussions revolving around a giant lizard and react tyrannically to anything that could possibly be interesting. Needless to say such people are very often enabled by places with heavy moderation. They seem like types of people who, when someone makes a joke at their expense, would get extremely sullen and demoralized instead of just laughing and moving on. It's quite tiresome and it's a major blot on the Godzilla community.

That's it for community-related ones I think. I'll do some movie based ones now I guess.

5. The 70s, which I've heard called the "dark ages" of Godzilla, was actually the decade that produced great Godzilla films the most consistently. Not a single bad or even average movie in there.

6. I like the stupid hand puppet in Gojira

7. Heisei and Monsterverse series are some of the worst things to happen to mankind and aside from Shin Godzilla everything post-final wars has been hot garbage

8. Legion is basically destroyah done better

9. It severely, severely bothers me that kaiju can't be real (barring a few workarounds I found that most would consider "cheating") and this has actually significantly diminished my interest in all kaiju-related media.

10. I hate King Kong with a burning passion

11. Toy collectors, when it goes beyond maybe 1-3 figures they really, really want (and I'd call even that too much) have a genuine problem. The community should not encourage or enable them and the situation should be managed like one would a heroin addict, with an impetus on eliminating the behavior as soon as possible.

[Legion1979]

......ooooookaaaaaay

[Follinollante]

I'll assume that just those last couple of lines are jocular, and not the rest of the post.

But OF COURSE it's possible to make a better kaiju than Godzilla, it isn't even that difficult for a reasonably intelligent and creative person.

I gotta say, it's a little harder than you might think to singlehandedly develop, design, and cinematically render a character who is immediately better than a character which has had a successful movie career lasting decades and a dedicated fanbase which spans generations and people of multiple cultures and countries.

The movie's story has no potential, and the death is not done well, and what you call it being given its "proper focus" is actively a detriment overall.

No potential? None whatsoever? The movie had a plot unique among Godzilla movies (i.e., Godzilla's health is in such a critical state that he will both die and take humanity with him. Meanwhile, the weapon that killed him almost half a century ago is suddenly manifested as a monstrous, sadistic animal.), and to say that it has absolutely no potential (more so than one animal pooping on its victim?) doesn't make any sense.
Whether the death has been done well is, and probably always will be a subject of debate.
Also, what do you consider the "proper focus" to be in this case, and what do you think it should have been?