What religion are you?

[JVM]

I have no problem with UFO folkore and used to have a more personal interest for a long time as a kid, but there are absolutely corners of overlap between QAnon level conspiracies and "harmless" cryptozoology and UFOs. Take a look into Milton William Cooper, who started out in ufology and moved into the far right, as covered Rolling Stone. Vice has also shown connections between Ron Watskins and Ufology here, and Salon has an interesting piece discussing such connections as well. Of course, QAnon has rejected UFOs on occasion as well.

The link between "harmless" and "serious" conspiracies is the emphasis on the idea the truth is being hidden or covered up. I know from my experiences in cryptozoological circles plenty of people don't feel concerned about this aspect and can enjoy it quite peacefully, but for some people, once you might convince them the government is hiding one thing, it's easier for them to think it's hiding a whole lot of things.... not to mention, the majority of people do believe in similar things than that which are found in conspiracy literature. The amount of people who don't believe in QAnon officially, but happen to separately believe a cabal of pedophiles controls the world via Holllywood, is a lot higher than you'd think.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I have no problem with UFO folkore and used to have a more personal interest for a long time as a kid, but there are absolutely corners of overlap between QAnon level conspiracies and "harmless" cryptozoology and UFOs. Take a look into Milton William Cooper, who started out in ufology and moved into the far right, as covered Rolling Stone. Vice has also shown connections between Ron Watskins and Ufology here, and Salon has an interesting piece discussing such connections as well. Of course, QAnon has rejected UFOs on occasion as well.

The link between "harmless" and "serious" conspiracies is the emphasis on the idea the truth is being hidden or covered up. I know from my experiences in cryptozoological circles plenty of people don't feel concerned about this aspect and can enjoy it quite peacefully, but for some people, once you might convince them the government is hiding one thing, it's easier for them to think it's hiding a whole lot of things.... not to mention, the majority of people do believe in similar things than that which are found in conspiracy literature. The amount of people who don't believe in QAnon officially, but happen to separately believe a cabal of pedophiles controls the world via Holllywood, is a lot higher than you'd think.

I think that's a fair, insightful, and interesting analysis of the pipeline from soft conspiracies into hardcore nutters. I never really considered the whole "If the gov is covering up X they must be covering up y!".

But...to get real for a second:

Spoiler:

I think this was all some of the less religious members here just taking a fun jab and wanting to believe in something, spouting their beliefs in UFOs rather than a specific deity or belief in deity.

[JAGzilla]

^ There was a little bit of a joking tone to this, yeah. UFO belief as religion is a serious idea, though. Even academia is starting to explore it. Check out the book American Cosmic, by Diana Pasulka. She's a professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina. She avoided UFO discussion for years like any good academic, and when she blundered into actually looking at the phenomenon, it shook her whole worldview of what religion is and how it works.

[Jetty_Jags]

Ok, but to play devils advocate (I don’t consider myself a hardcore nutto, nor do I believe most conspiracy theories) the government (particularly the us but not exclusively) does a terrible job at preserving the image of not hiding/covering things up. Yes Hollywood and yellow journalism are partly to blame, but maybe if our government didn’t lie about, idk the Vietnam war, watergate, mk ultra/project paper clip, the Tuskegee syphilis experiments, wmds in Iran, the patriot act, that the ground air was safe for first responders at 9-11, maybe we wouldn’t have such a problem with conspiracy theories.

[StardustGenius]

I only learned about Tuskegee in 2009. Just horrifying. I answered earlier in this thread, that I'm a Christian Anarchist. Asking an anarchist to not be suspicious of the state is gonna be a firm no. Antivax nonsense made the pandemic worse. However a lot of the media (ESPECIALLY THE UK) is to blame for the antivax nonsense we see, for giving them the voice and running interference, but if Big Pharma and Big Science didn't prioritize making money off saving people's lives, then people wouldn't be as suspicious of them.

I've been vaccinated for covid several times already, and I don't plan to stop. But I am not a big fan of how big pharma wants to make money off this vaccine and is charging much higher than it should now, especially when its so important to ending this pandemic. Life saving vaccines should be free! Covid vaccines are harder to get in third world countries, and its still a problem there.

Being suspicious of hierarchies of power and influence is not wrong.

[Spirit Ghidorah 2010]

I only learned about Tuskegee in 2009. Just horrifying. I answered earlier in this thread, that I'm a Christian Anarchist. Asking an anarchist to not be suspicious of the state is gonna be a firm no. Antivax nonsense made the pandemic worse. However a lot of the media (ESPECIALLY THE UK) is to blame for the antivax nonsense we see, for giving them the voice and running interference, but if Big Pharma and Big Science didn't prioritize making money off saving people's lives, then people wouldn't be as suspicious of them.

I've been vaccinated for covid several times already, and I don't plan to stop. But I am not a big fan of how big pharma wants to make money off this vaccine and is charging much higher than it should now, especially when its so important to ending this pandemic. Life saving vaccines should be free! Covid vaccines are harder to get in third world countries, and its still a problem there.

Being suspicious of hierarchies of power and influence is not wrong.

I mean, it's more an indictment on profit-driven capitalism infiltrating medicine more than it is an indictment of medicine itself.

The polio vaccine going without a patent would never fly in today's society because that's sOcIaLiSm.

[JVM]

I was mostly focused on addressing the QAnon rabbit hole, the stuff about Trump being the savior of the human race; Tuskegee and Vietnam, stuff that is known to have happened, wasn't at the forefront of my mind in that moment.

To clarify: anyone who thinks they can trust the United States government, Hollywood, the medical community, the business class, capitalism, and so forth is a fucking idiot and a failed human being, that much is very clear. Human beings are fundamentally evil and anything that a lot of them are involved with is going to magnify that evil by a significant degree.

[StardustGenius]

I only learned about Tuskegee in 2009. Just horrifying. I answered earlier in this thread, that I'm a Christian Anarchist. Asking an anarchist to not be suspicious of the state is gonna be a firm no. Antivax nonsense made the pandemic worse. However a lot of the media (ESPECIALLY THE UK) is to blame for the antivax nonsense we see, for giving them the voice and running interference, but if Big Pharma and Big Science didn't prioritize making money off saving people's lives, then people wouldn't be as suspicious of them.

I've been vaccinated for covid several times already, and I don't plan to stop. But I am not a big fan of how big pharma wants to make money off this vaccine and is charging much higher than it should now, especially when its so important to ending this pandemic. Life saving vaccines should be free! Covid vaccines are harder to get in third world countries, and its still a problem there.

Being suspicious of hierarchies of power and influence is not wrong.

I mean, it's more an indictment on profit-driven capitalism infiltrating medicine more than it is an indictment of medicine itself.

The polio vaccine going without a patent would never fly in today's society because that's sOcIaLiSm.

Profit driven capitalism is just one aspect of hierarchical systems (its arguably the worst kind). Big Science/Big Pharma/etc have their own things they want to protect. Horizontal power structures will always form these problems.

Added in 1 minute 44 seconds:

I was mostly focused on addressing the QAnon rabbit hole, the stuff about Trump being the savior of the human race; Tuskegee and Vietnam, stuff that is known to have happened, wasn't at the forefront of my mind in that moment.

To clarify: anyone who thinks they can trust the United States government, Hollywood, the medical community, the business class, capitalism, and so forth is a fucking idiot and a failed human being, that much is very clear. Human beings are fundamentally evil and anything that a lot of them are involved with is going to magnify that evil by a significant degree.

Human beings are human beings, we're not fundamentally evil. Often in times of crisis human beings rally together to help one another. Tranquilo, man!

[Executive Hamster]

I've been doing some reflecting and have since decided to consider myself agnostic, from now forward. I've left the satanic temple and satanism, honestly finding that despite how much I appreciate the literary element, overall it just sort of felt like a gimmick. There was nothing genuine for me. I wanted to portray myself in a way that wasn't honest to who I am. So yes, I consider myself agnostic now.

[StardustGenius]

As long as your beliefs or who you are don't involve hurting or discriminating against people, they are ultimately your own business and no one else's. Being comfortable in your own skin is usually good.

[JAGzilla]

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything is worthy of praise, dwell on these things.

I feel like that's one of the most important lines in the whole Bible. Or anywhere, really. Just plain good advice. It's so easy to get caught up in anger or frustration or negative thoughts in general, and just stew in them without being self-aware. That, or just look for the negatives in any given situation and fixate on them. It's important to step back and look at the positive. It's usually there, somewhere.

The Buddhist idea of impermanence is also good to bear in mind. Every phenomenon that exists in the material world is temporary. Every thought, every sensation, every emotion, every action, every event, every life, whatever. They come, and then they go.

I've found myself kind of more inclined toward a religious mindset lately. It's weird. That whole conversation from a few months back about the morality of Hell and God being apparently evil... I'd had that line of thought in mind for years. It tended to dominate my views on Judeo-Christian religion. But once I actually had a public discussion about it, it was gone. It was one of those things that enters your mind and just fucking sits there. You know it's stupid and wrong, but your brain won't let it go until you say it out loud. And then it's just exorcised.

I think the best thing to do where religion is concerned is just look for whatever is good. Don't get bogged down in the dogma and the theology of any one belief system, but take good ideas where you find them and try to incorporate them into your life. I feel like there is a benevolent higher power of some sort. Maybe it's God, maybe it's Kami, maybe it's my inner Buddha. Doesn't matter. It's there, and it's willing and able to help you help yourself. Be positive but objective, and be thankful . I know too well how easy it is to look around at the world's problems and ask why I should thank anyone for them, but that's wrong. Every experience is a lesson, if you recognize it and let it teach you. That's what you give thanks for. That little opportunity for self-improvement God/whoever provides.

Not saying I always take those opportunities, of course...

[Gojira18]

I was raised Roman Catholic but I've since realized that the Bible is full of stuff that either makes no sense, is very hypocritical, or just flat out reprehensible. I was agnostic for a while but now I'm a full-on Atheist.

[LegendZilla]

I was raised Roman Catholic but I've since realized that the Bible is full of stuff that either makes no sense, is very hypocritical, or just flat out reprehensible. I was agnostic for a while but now I'm a full-on Atheist.

As someone raised in a non-religious environment my whole life, I feel the same.

[Voyager]

While I’ve been gone from TK I’ve definitely delved deeper into my religious side and been engaging with theological debates and ideas.

Right now I can firmly say I’m a Protestant, somewhere between Anglican, Reformed and Baptist. I believe Faith Alone Saves, and that sacraments, rituals, etc that other denominations (particularly the Catholic and Orthodox Churches) do won’t contribute because it is unbiblical. I’m also not a very big fan of the veneration of Mary.

[JAGzilla]

I’m also not a very big fan of the veneration of Mary.

I don't pretend to know much about it, but the veneration of Mary and the saints is fascinating to me. It's essentially polytheism lite thriving inside one of THE big monotheistic religions. I can see why it would generate controversy in Protestant circles, but I feel like there are selling points to it. These people who devoted their lives to God in such strong ways should be held up as examples for believers to follow. And then if you believe that they're alive in Heaven, asking them for advice and support is a logical next step. It's not hard to see how this system would have developed.

[Voyager]

I’m also not a very big fan of the veneration of Mary.

I don't pretend to know much about it, but the veneration of Mary and the saints is fascinating to me. It's essentially polytheism lite thriving inside one of THE big monotheistic religions. I can see why it would generate controversy in Protestant circles, but I feel like there are selling points to it. These people who devoted their lives to God in such strong ways should be held up as examples for believers to follow. And then if you believe that they're alive in Heaven, asking them for advice and support is a logical next step. It's not hard to see how this system would have developed.

On paper it sounds decent but when you delve into it it’s very unchristian. Not too sure about Orthodox but it’s within Catholic theology that Mary was a perfect sinless woman. This comes into conflict with one of the biggest points of Christianity, that being Jesus being the only sinless human there ever was and ever will be, as He was God in the flesh. Mary being sinless and perfect makes her equal to God.

To me, Mary is in heaven, absolutely, but she has no status over anyone else there, as she like everybody else was a sinner that needed the gift of God’s grace.

[Follinollante]

This comes into conflict with one of the biggest points of Christianity, that being Jesus being the only sinless human there ever was and ever will be, as He was God in the flesh.

I'm a Catholic, so yeah, I'm gonna have views on this topic.
Where does one find this "big point of Christianity?" Christ was unique as a person in more ways than one, but being the only sinless human ever doesn't sound right to me.
Also, John the Baptist was technically sinless. We Catholics believe that Mary was conceived without sin, but we also believe that John was born (but not conceived) without sin. Also (also), what are we defining as "sinless?"

To jump topics, I noticed some people above felt that the Bible sometimes "made no sense." Whoever felt that way, could you elaborate? I'm curious to see what parts felt trippy to you.

[Voyager]

This comes into conflict with one of the biggest points of Christianity, that being Jesus being the only sinless human there ever was and ever will be, as He was God in the flesh.

I'm a Catholic, so yeah, I'm gonna have views on this topic.
Where does one find this "big point of Christianity?" Christ was unique as a person in more ways than one, but being the only sinless human ever doesn't sound right to me.
Also, John the Baptist was technically sinless. We Catholics believe that Mary was conceived without sin, but we also believe that John was born (but not conceived) without sin. Also (also), what are we defining as "sinless?".

Romans 3:23-24 posits that all man are sinners, but it is through God’s grace we gain eternal life. To exclude Mary and John the Baptist would disagree with this.

Mary and John being sinless is unbiblical and elevates them to a higher level than the rest of mankind.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

To jump topics, I noticed some people above felt that the Bible sometimes "made no sense." Whoever felt that way, could you elaborate? I'm curious to see what parts felt trippy to you.

The big thing for me that always threw me off, even as a little church-going kid, is that God is a completely different character between the Old Testament and the New. In the Old Testament, he's a frightening deity who's prone to summon an apocalypse on a whim or torture his own loyal worshippers to test their loyalty. In the New Testament, he's a being of pure love who sent his only son (who may also be him?) to die for humanity's sins so that everyone with faith can enjoy a blissful afterlife. This dissonance in the portrayals of God between different chapters of the Bible has never made sense to me and every justification I've heard for it has felt like desperate straw-grasping. Then there's the stuff that just plain makes no sense, like Eve being made from Adam's rib or two of every animal fitting on one boat and somehow repopulating the planet (how did the predators eat during that time?). There are plenty of other contradictions throughout the Bible as well.

As a non-religious person, I look at the Bible as I do mythology. The stories are fascinating and some of them contain worthwhile parables but it also often promotes outdated values. Genocide, war, slavery and misogyny, among other nasty things, are all condoned at some point or another in the Bible. Taken as stories, and nothing more, many of them are worthy reads. But I don't believe pretty much any of it happened literally, and I'm annoyed to no end by how many people use their interpretations of these stories as justifications for shitty behavior.

[Executive Hamster]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Specifically the people that believe Noah's Ark actually happened frustrate me. If every species on earth got genetically bottlenecked to just two individuals, the results would be absolutely devastating. Probably very few species would survive past a handful of generations due to the extreme inbreeding. Same reason why Adam and Eve makes no sense, ignoring the piles of fossil evidence that disprove that story completely.

My thoughts have always been that, frankly, with a book that old we have no way to guarantee its authenticity. There is no possible way to prove that, for example, the people who wrote it weren't intentionally righting fictional stories that somewhere along the line began to be interpreted as truthful. If you want to believe it, more power to you, but to LEGISLATE off of those unprovable principals is absurd and that's a very real problem in my country.