Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

[JAGzilla]

Godzilla is in a different place in Godzilla vs Kong. He supercharged on fusing with Mothra and he is the Alpha now.

People claim Godzilla was acting different but I'd argue the film just framed him differently because he was fighting Kong who we like not the Mutos or Ghidorah who were bad guys.

That first point just seems like it should make him more confident and chill. He took out Ghidorah, some monkey shouldn't be too big a deal.

The second point ignores the difference in behavior. He kept his composure while fighting 'the bad guys.' He lost his shit while fighting 'the good guy.' It wasn't the same attitude, which is the whole root of the problem here.

In any case, no offense, I don't want to endlessly debate this. Maybe I'm right, maybe you're right, it really doesn't matter. I need to rewatch the movie before I can speak with any authority on any of this. And as I said initially, I'm trying to let my continuity driven expectations go and treat this movie as a semi-standalone, the same way I would with the average Japanese movie.

[SpiderZilla]

^ Sure, except Godzilla wasn't nearly as animalistic and unhinged when he was up against his parasitic enemies the MUTOs or a high-level territorial rival in Ghidorah. He lost all composure against Kong and was acting like a rabid lizard. Logically we can guess at the reasons for that, but the movie doesn't let us feel them. We don't get into Godzilla's head at all. And... now that I phrase it that way... that might actually have been Toho's doing. Hmm. I wonder, now.

I think some hints were dropped about Godzilla’s feelings though. We know that Godzilla and Kong didn’t get into conflict until Kong left Skull Island which suggests Godzilla may have been honoring a long-standing truce until Kong trespassed on Godzilla’s territory. Godzilla also seems to have issues with the axe, which appears to be made from the remains of one of his ancestors and suggests past animosities between their two species.

[ShinGojira14]

The whole plotline of Godzilla's death being a world-ending event in Godzilla vs Destoroyah was really bland and should've been left out of the movie. Destoroyah should've been the real world-ending threat, and by extension the central conflict of the film.

[LSD Jellyfish]

The whole plotline of Godzilla's death being a world-ending event in Godzilla vs Destoroyah was really bland and should've been left out of the movie. Destoroyah should've been the real world-ending threat, and by extension the central conflict of the film.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but do you mean specifically the "world-ending" part, or the "death" part.

Honestly, I think the film is really strong, before it transitions between the big explosion, and melt-down. I always remember that the explosion, and the destruction of Japan, feels like a much more tangible and understandable threat. With the music, visuals accompanying it, and dialogue from the actors, it's a very frightening scenario. The world being destroyed is just a stupid escalation of stakes, that makes it all the more ridiculous. I know why they changed it, they wanted to have the visual of Godzilla melting, but they could have their cake and eat it too. Just explain that Godzilla melting down will make all of Japan unhinabitable. That tense problem they set up in the beginning never really pays off satisfyingly. They make a big deal about it, but then it turns out that just doing what they were already doing (throwing freezer weapons at it)+Junior absorbing all the radiation seems to do the trick.

Speaking of, another problem with the ending is while it's great on focusing on Godzilla, I'm unsure how really bad the damage was. Godzilla and Destoroyah mostly fight in Handea Aiport, which while part of Tokyo, and an important part of Japan's infastructure, is an airport... It's not like once again Godzilla destroying major financial districts or residential areas. It's stated by Miki, that Tokyo will be a ghosttown, or nuclear hell-hole, but we never see the full extent of this. I guess Junior somewhat mitigated all this, by absorbing the radiation, but it's a bit fuzzy to what extent the meltdown occurred and how we should feel as the audience.

[ShinGojira14]

The whole plotline of Godzilla's death being a world-ending event in Godzilla vs Destoroyah was really bland and should've been left out of the movie. Destoroyah should've been the real world-ending threat, and by extension the central conflict of the film.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but do you mean specifically the "world-ending" part, or the "death" part.

Honestly, I think the film is really strong, before it transitions between the big explosion, and melt-down. I always remember that the explosion, and the destruction of Japan, feels like a much more tangible and understandable threat. With the music, visuals accompanying it, and dialogue from the actors, it's a very frightening scenario. The world being destroyed is just a stupid escalation of stakes, that makes it all the more ridiculous. I know why they changed it, they wanted to have the visual of Godzilla melting, but they could have their cake and eat it too. Just explain that Godzilla melting down will make all of Japan unhinabitable. That tense problem they set up in the beginning never really pays off satisfyingly. They make a big deal about it, but then it turns out that just doing what they were already doing (throwing freezer weapons at it)+Junior absorbing all the radiation seems to do the trick.

Speaking of, another problem with the ending is while it's great on focusing on Godzilla, I'm unsure how really bad the damage was. Godzilla and Destoroyah mostly fight in Handea Aiport, which while part of Tokyo, and an important part of Japan's infastructure, is an airport... It's not like once again Godzilla destroying major financial districts or residential areas. It's stated by Miki, that Tokyo will be a ghosttown, or nuclear hell-hole, but we never see the full extent of this. I guess Junior somewhat mitigated all this, by absorbing the radiation, but it's a bit fuzzy to what extent the meltdown occurred and how we should feel as the audience.

The world-ending part.

If the whole idea of "Godzilla dies via Critical Mass" was kept the same, I wouldn't have a problem with that—but what I do have a problem with is that they made his looming death a world-ending conflict. It plays a massive part of what made Destoroyah's presence in the film completely pointless. What should've happened was either A: Godzilla was on the path to exploding like a nuclear weapon, causing massive damage but not world-ending damage, or B: Godzilla was on the path to melting to a skeleton like he did in the finished movie, which would cause immense radioactive contamination to wherever he was where he died—but again, nothing that would end the world or cause a mass extinction.

Either way, Godzilla's death would still be looked at as a natural disaster that will come and go at worst, and a cause for celebration at best. And at the beginning of the film, G-Force prepares measures to counteract/mitigate/clean up the damage when his death actually happens.

But THEN, Destoroyah comes along during the First Act of the story, and as he grows bigger and stronger it turns out that he has the potential to end the world; thus, Destoroyah is the central threat of the film, and actually lives up to his reputation as "Godzilla's greatest final enemy," as opposed to one last punching bag for Big G to beat into that he was in the finished film.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Yeah, I agree. You've basically summarized the crux of all the issues of Godzilla vs. Destoroyah. Destoroyah, for being what it is, is one of the most clumsily handled monsters in the franchise relative to what it is in the narrative. The only contender for it, is Battra. Both are obstensibly built up as villains early on, before being dropped pretty hard threat wise. Now granted, Destoroyah does kill Godzilla Junior, but numerous decisions regarding the monster ruin it.

I honestly think the decision to cut the final bit with Godzilla vs. Destoroyah was a very poor editing choice. Having the Super X-3 blow Destoroyah out of the sky, for Godzilla to deliver the final blow mid-melt down, would've been perfect. The Super X-3 playing a role in the conclusion, is a great idea, but it essentially delivering the final blow is a bit difficult. There will would've been more than enough time to then just cut away to Godzilla and have the rest of the scene play out. Godzilla beats Destoroyah, triumphantly roars, and then the proper melt-down begins.

It also reminds me of the original Godzilla vs. Biollante sequence. Like Destoroyah, Biollante gets shafted in a weird way. In the final film, Godzilla is clearly the stronger of the two, blasting Biollante to death, but then suddenly becomes iundated by the ANEB. The fight sort of just stops, with Biollante dying/retreating into space, and Godzilla falling into the ocean. It's fine, because the ANEB was a major story element, but the original version had a final moment with Biollante and Godzilla, where Biollante attacked Godzilla, already affected by the ANEB, by growing huge and devouring him, before flying away. It's ultimately the same outcome (Godzilla temporarily defeated by the ANEB+Biollante) and Biollante's body destroyed/killed, but it gives Biollante a final moment of confrontation with Godzilla.

[edgaguirus]

One way to include SX3 in that scene would be to have Destroyah hit by both. As Destroyah tries to flee, Godzilla hits it with his powerful breath. At the same moment, The SX3 opens fire. Destroyah is overwhelmed by the combo and is destroyed. Destroyah still lives up to his image as "the greatest final enemy" as it takes an out of control kaiju and human tech to finish Destroyah off.

[miguelnuva]

Godzilla vs Destoroyah's main problem is it's a finale for Godzilla and thus Toho decided to send him off strong. They make him the main conflict, they over power him in the film and then they let him have his solo meltdown.

Godzilla vs Godzilla Jr might have actually fit better with the Destroyah plot.

[StardustGenius]

Godzilla is in a different place in Godzilla vs Kong. He supercharged on fusing with Mothra and he is the Alpha now.

People claim Godzilla was acting different but I'd argue the film just framed him differently because he was fighting Kong who we like not the Mutos or Ghidorah who were bad guys.

That first point just seems like it should make him more confident and chill. He took out Ghidorah, some monkey shouldn't be too big a deal.

The second point ignores the difference in behavior. He kept his composure while fighting 'the bad guys.' He lost his shit while fighting 'the good guy.' It wasn't the same attitude, which is the whole root of the problem here.

In any case, no offense, I don't want to endlessly debate this. Maybe I'm right, maybe you're right, it really doesn't matter. I need to rewatch the movie before I can speak with any authority on any of this. And as I said initially, I'm trying to let my continuity driven expectations go and treat this movie as a semi-standalone, the same way I would with the average Japanese movie.

You're viewing this from a logical nuts and bolts perspective.

Not a pro wrestling angle, or even a major crossover battle. I think the motivations are pretty clear when looking at it that way.

This is going to be long winded and an excuse to write about pro wrestling, but bear with me here. There is a reason for this.

This absolutely feels like the encounter Kazuchika Okada (34), one of the greatest wrestlers alive, if not the best wrestler in the world, and Kaito Kiyomiya (26) had earlier this year. For reference, Okada is the biggest star in Japan. The Ace (think The Rock, Hulk Hogan, John Cena, Ric Flair, etc) of New Japan Pro Wrestling (one of the big three major league wrestling companies). The dude's sold out Madison Square Garden a few years ago when the company toured the US back in 2019. He's the top of the mountain and nearly unbeatable. A few years back he had a 2 year world title reign where it seemed nobody could beat him. Beating him is a feat in of itself. He is a star and a draw. He is the brand. Even tho he can be arrogant as hell sometimes, he never cheats and wins clean. Dude never loses his cool. He is loved by the fans of NJPW. Who gives a flying flip what fans of everything else say? He is Godzilla.

Kaito Kiyomiya is the Ace of Pro Wrestling NOAH, a company that used to be really damn big back in the 2000s but has fallen down due to mismanagement and horrible booking of their champions. NOAH is now considered a small league company. Kaito is inheriting a legacy and has a lot on his shoulders because he is pretty young. He is great athlete and wrestler, but because of poor booking, and his lack of charisma (maybe pushed too soon when he wasn't ready?) he has a credibility issue, despite calling himself the next generation, or the future supernova. He is the much more sympathetic figure here. He is Kong in this comparison.

Back in 2022 when the two encountered each other in a Crossover show between NJPW and NOAH, Okada took him to school in a tag match. Then to rub it in, told him to stop crying and to get the hell out of his ring.

Why did Okada do that, despite usually being the brand favorite and shiny golden poster boy? Because "fuck this little twerp upstart!" that's why! This is his kingdom and nobody's is gonna dare challenge him for that.

Back in January, at another crossover show, Kaito and Okada met each other again. This time, both as the respective world champions of their companies. And Kaito legit shoot kicked (AS IN FOR REAL) Okada in the face. Okada legit then beat the crap out of him.

Blurring the motions of reality. Was it real? Was it a work? Well that busted forehead the world champ took, and the pummeling the younger man took sure were real!

When the big rematch happened at the Tokyo Dome last month in another crossover show, with a gigantic audience, Okada fought a tougher, more focused Kaito. This was it. The big Ace VS Ace match. Coke VS Pepsi. Superman VS Goku. Yankees VS Redsox. Godzilla vs Kong. And it was going to be at a show Kaito's company was headlining. It was the home team.

https://youtu.be/dpxnOE9EBek

And then, Okada beat him in 15 minutes, and humiliated him after beating him. Why? Because "fuck that shit, this is your show, but the Tokyo Dome is MY WORLD, MY HOME." Okada sees in Kaito, how he was 10 years ago (young and hungry, and seen as the future of the company). Except Okada 10 years ago was still leagues ahead of Kaito is today. When the time came for the bout to happen, just on entrances and presence alone you could clearly see who the bigger star was. But not just that, who had the presence. Okada (thankfully) is not a WWE world champ, but he is a legit star and world champ in a major league company, in a crowded and niche world that is wrestling.

Sometimes in sports and IRL there will be rivalries where one side or both sides just irrationally hates the other despite being quite similar. Therefore, why SHOULDN'T there be intense rivalries between fictional characters.

Why is Godzilla so hostile to Kong? Because there can only be one on the top here. That's why. "Fuck this twerp dweeb Kong!" That's the sentiment in the movie, and that's the motivation it needs to be. Just like Okada, even though Godzilla was the aggressor and huge a-hole to Kong, I rooted for Godzilla and Okada anyway. Why? Because I like Godzilla more than King Kong, that's why!

And of course, they mentioned pretty quickly that their species were rivals back in the day. So...

I think its all within the realm of believability for the story they were telling.

[edgaguirus]

KK vs G said the same thing about Kong and Godzilla. Dr. Arnold called the two monsters instinctive rivals. No other explanation was offered as to why they fight.

The MV offers a little more explanation with the cave painting that shows a history between the two species. This is a feud older than recorded history, which likely ended with Kong's race ruling Skull Island while Godzilla claimed the rest of the world. Besides, I think most people aren't looking for a deep reason for the two to fight; They just want to see them slugging it out.

[miguelnuva]

I've seen humans do more to each other for less than what Godzilla did to Kong. Just imagine you think your greatest enemy that you almost died to and lost the planet to is finally dead and now you start sensing him again. At the same time another Alpha Titan that you are also a rival too is now leaving.his territory wandering around where he isn't suppose to be.

From Godzilla's pov Kong and Ghidorah are both running around and could cause the other Titans to stray again.

[JVM]

I think audiences respected that GvK didn't offer any explanations or background to the fight. It's interesting that KSI seemed to set up this bullshit 'monkey and lizard are fated rivals' thing and GvK basically set up that Mechagodzilla drew them together entirely by accident; it's a big change from the previous three MV movies heavily relying on all this overhype of 'ancient rivals'.

[CyberZilla]

I think audiences respected that GvK didn't offer any explanations or background to the fight. It's interesting that KSI seemed to set up this bullshit 'monkey and lizard are fated rivals' thing and GvK basically set up that Mechagodzilla drew them together entirely by accident; it's a big change from the previous three MV movies heavily relying on all this overhype of 'ancient rivals'.

I wouldn't say they were brought together by accident. Part of it was coincidence, sure, but there were other circumstances that made their clash inevitable in the story. The Apex Mechagodzilla/Ghidorah stuff already ticked Godzilla off, and Kong and Godzilla's species had a past with one another, on top of Kong being another "alpha" that then left his territory and encroached on what Godzilla considered his "realm." There was background as part of the story that helped explain the stakes of the fight for both sides.

[miguelnuva]

KOTM actually helps GvsK out in that we know what happens if Godzilla is no longer Alpha and Godzilla in his mind is being challenged by two at the same time in GvsK. He didn't have time to play around with Kong or the potential Ghidorah returning.

[JVM]

I think audiences respected that GvK didn't offer any explanations or background to the fight. It's interesting that KSI seemed to set up this bullshit 'monkey and lizard are fated rivals' thing and GvK basically set up that Mechagodzilla drew them together entirely by accident; it's a big change from the previous three MV movies heavily relying on all this overhype of 'ancient rivals'.

I wouldn't say they were brought together by accident. Part of it was coincidence, sure, but there were other circumstances that made their clash inevitable in the story. The Apex Mechagodzilla/Ghidorah stuff already ticked Godzilla off, and Kong and Godzilla's species had a past with one another, on top of Kong being another "alpha" that then left his territory and encroached on what Godzilla considered his "realm." There was background as part of the story that helped explain the stakes of the fight for both sides.

I mean, yes, there's a background, but is it really part of the story? I don't really think Kong being an alpha is really in the film and Godzilla and Kong's species having a history is paid some quick lip service, but none of that has to do with the actual plot as it unfolds. Godzilla's behavior is 100% driven by Apex/Mechagodzilla/Ghidorah/whatever and Kong is in the way. The alpha and ancient history stuff is filler, it's window dressing, and it's not something the majority audience cares about.

KOTM actually helps GvsK out in that we know what happens if Godzilla is no longer Alpha and Godzilla in his mind is being challenged by two at the same time in GvsK. He didn't have time to play around with Kong or the potential Ghidorah returning.

The only help KOTM offers GvK is the presence of Ghidorah's skulls, which are necessary for Mechagodzilla. I maintain that I really don't think the alpha stuff matters to people.

[StardustGenius]

It isn't like Godzilla and Kong's fight isn't given set up. They're pretty clear about it. That's where I take issue when folks say "that they're fighting for no reason", even though its given a quick line (that doesn't need to be expanded upon either).

[JVM]

It isn't like Godzilla and Kong's fight isn't given set up. They're pretty clear about it. That's where I take issue when folks say "that they're fighting for no reason", even though its given a quick line (that doesn't need to be expanded upon either).

I misspoke, I realize. My intent was not so much to erase the film's effort to suggest some reasoning so much as to emphasize that I think the audience treated those explanations as unnecessary and superfluous and proved they were not necessary or even desired. The majority of the audience is fine with the idea monkey and lizard fight and don't need the level of background the filmmakers made an honest effort towards including. I leaned into a very hyperbolic choice of words but that's sort of what I meant in saying I felt the audience respected it that way.

[edgaguirus]

Your average movie viewer came into G vs K mainly to see Kong and Godzilla fight. That was the draw.

[Amp87]

There are many unpopular opinions out there, and in my experience some come from the notorious fanboys who don't know much this is just a small list of examples I have seen over the years. This is not an extensive list by any means, there is much more false information being spread out there, but i just wanted to list small examples.

• Composite Godzilla is invincible FYI he doesn't exist, he is fan made not official from Toho.

• Minilla is Godzilla's actual son which is false he is adopted, we don't know who the parents of Minilla is.

• Godzilla can solo any universe including MCU, DC, and DBZ that is false he can't.

• Godzilla Jr is the one from the short that featured him when he faced off against Gigan Rex, which is false.

• Heisei Godzilla's are the most untouchable versions which again is false they have flaws that can be exploited

• Godzilla vs Godzilla debates in general.

• Claiming Destoroyah is the most powerful enemy Godzilla has ever faced, which again is false.

[StardustGenius]

Godzilla is still Minilla's dad so what's got you riled up?

Also there's nothing to confirm Godzilla Jr is or isn't the one in the Gigan Rex short. Its entirely up to the viewer, so F A L S E is also false.