Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by edgaguirus »

That blood scene reminds of the BF20,000F, but they take it to a whole new level.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by Legion1979 »

A lot of those dropped fight elements are so out there compared to what they were actually able to pull off. None of that stuff ever had a chance of making it into the movie, both from an effects standpoint and in terms of the tone of the film. Blood raining down on citizens? Really?

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by StardustGenius »

I think a triple gravity beam, or satellite lasers blasting Godzilla would be doable. It's what Kawakita was actually good at. That script element makes me wonder what they were trying to say. Reminds me of a first draft of Shin Godzilla, except replace American nukes with a orbital bombardment. Maybe its a continuation of the sentiment from The Return Of Godzilla. Or maybe it was just a cool idea that never made it into the movie.

Emmy and M-11 actually looked like 80s/90s future sci-fi people in the storyboards. I guess 80s hair metal future people would have been a bit much.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by Legion1979 »

I feel like when they were writing the Heisei scripts they just kept going "Let's do this! This would be cool! How about this? This would be badass! Add this cool thing!"...

...and then they actually made the movies and realized they couldn't do this stuff.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by StardustGenius »

Yeah, for sure. That's the case with tokusatsu films in general. One thing I'm still trying to figure out is how they did the super android running sequence. Was it some kind of blue/green screen? If it was, I couldn't tell compared to the usual Heisei blue/green screens. Did they actually have the actor running on the back of a speeding flatbed truck and film it that way?

It isn't the usual camera tricks in tokusatsu of the period. In the Metal Heroes series, when the android or armored hero would run and chase after a vehicle to catch or throw it, there were editing tricks to simulate it.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by Legion1979 »

It was probably some combination of speeding up the film and putting Robert Scott (MLM) Field on a moving platform.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Legion1979 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:06 pm Robert Scott (MLM) Field
Lmao dude you made me almost spit my coffee out on my nice sweater. Nice one
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

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Legion1979 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:06 pm It was probably some combination of speeding up the film and putting Robert Scott (MLM) Field on a moving platform.
What did Robert Scott Field do related to MLM schemes?
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by MaxRebo320 »

I've heard musings of Scott being involved in some sort of MLM, but I don't know/remember the details (something to do with solar panels and/or an energy drink?).

But what I do know is the guy is a pathological liar, still trying to milk his supporting-role in a 31-year-old movie. There's nothing wrong with embracing a role you played and interacting with fans, obviously, but man is he pathetic. But it seems he has no other skills but to lie. Be it claiming to have been offered roles in Shin Ultraman (or a role in anything besides a crappy fanfilm), to claiming to have received an award from the Emperor of Japan to awkwardly inserting himself (probably via MS Paint) in a photo with Robert Redford. He's a nonstop train of lies after lies.

When an unprofessional circus like G-Fest doesn't even want to deal with this guy anymore, you know he's bad.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

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MaxRebo320 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:05 am I've heard musings of Scott being involved in some sort of MLM, but I don't know/remember the details (something to do with solar panels and/or an energy drink?).

But what I do know is the guy is a pathological liar, still trying to milk his supporting-role in a 31-year-old movie. There's nothing wrong with embracing a role you played and interacting with fans, obviously, but man is he pathetic. But it seems he has no other skills but to lie. Be it claiming to have been offered roles in Shin Ultraman (or a role in anything besides a crappy fanfilm), to claiming to have received an award from the Emperor of Japan to awkwardly inserting himself (probably via MS Paint) in a photo with Robert Redford. He's a nonstop train of lies after lies.

When an unprofessional circus like G-Fest doesn't even want to deal with this guy anymore, you know he's bad.
Huh, well if true, that's dissapointing. I met him once, and he was nice to me. However, the conversation quickly shifted to "AFTER THIS I GOTTA GO TO MY EXERCISE WORKSHOP" or something.

Slight tangent, but from personal experience, reading various topics, and introspection, there's been a lot of grifters in Japan, who prior to the internet, and more easier accessible info, often build themselves up more than they are. Usually there's a flare of martial arts and/or EXERCISE going on in there. The most hyperbolic example I can think of is Steven Segal (seriously he's a POS, he married a Japanese woman, whose father owned some martial arts studio, and used it to claim he was some sort of "master", only to later abandon his wife and two kids), but it applies to many other people. Now to be fair, Japanese people (like everyone else in the world) are shitty to one another. Being a "foreigner", both in Japan and abroad, adds an extra layer of scrutiny, whether it's an intentional bias or not. Conversely, I imagine that when many of these people moved to Japan, self promotion was much more important, if not vital, to thriving. No one is going to view you as anyone but a tourist/foreigner unless you actively engage in everything around you and put in effort. That remains true to this day.

This isn't to talk badly of legitimately talented people like Nick Adams or Carl Dunham, but rather people who take advantage of their own unusual lives, and fill in the gaps with outrageous information to build themselves up. Often it ties into oreintalism and American stereotypes of Asian society ("He lived in Japan and learned kung fu! Wow wise sensei taught him!"). A lot of people, across cultures, are guilty of this type of thing, and it often undermines actually talented people, or people who do good work. I think acting is a unique circumstance though, as it doesn't really require hard credentials. But it certainly applies to other fields of employment.

There's always that adage, "fake it till you make it!"
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by JVM »

MaxRebo320 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:05 am I've heard musings of Scott being involved in some sort of MLM, but I don't know/remember the details (something to do with solar panels and/or an energy drink?).

But what I do know is the guy is a pathological liar, still trying to milk his supporting-role in a 31-year-old movie. There's nothing wrong with embracing a role you played and interacting with fans, obviously, but man is he pathetic. But it seems he has no other skills but to lie. Be it claiming to have been offered roles in Shin Ultraman (or a role in anything besides a crappy fanfilm), to claiming to have received an award from the Emperor of Japan to awkwardly inserting himself (probably via MS Paint) in a photo with Robert Redford. He's a nonstop train of lies after lies.

When an unprofessional circus like G-Fest doesn't even want to deal with this guy anymore, you know he's bad.
This is news to me! I had been wondering for his conspicuous absence from G-FEST after years of them including him basically every year, having him act as an official translator, and remarking upon it as a 'tradition' to have him present. This kind of awful behavior would definitely explain that.

EDIT: Just found more info on Facebook substantiating the photoshopped images and exaggerated connections. Yikes.
Last edited by JVM on Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by shadowgigan »

Watching this right after watching 54, 84, and Bio while studying. It seems immediately clear that this entry will be less “grounded” than the previous two entries in the series. Not saying those were incredibly grounded and realistic films, but definitely seemed more realistic than GvKG, and it’s a little jarring watching it immediately after Bio. Still love the film.

Edit: The time traveller plot is actually pretty cryptic at times. I love this movie, and I personally consider it a "great" film. However, I think the time travel element could have been handeled better. The threat of Godzilla basically destroying the world via attacking nuclear power plants seems...somewhat plausible, and I think it was a great idea.

Edit 2: Why exactly did the Futurians need help from the Japanese government? Im not exactly following that.

Edit 3: Yoshio Tsuchiya's performance is fantastic.
Last edited by shadowgigan on Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:22 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

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shadowgigan wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:43 am Edit 2: Why exactly did the Futurians need help from the Japanese government? Im not exactly following that.
It's glossed over but they needed Miki there to confirm that the creature they find (Godzillasaurus) is Godzilla, or what will turn into Godzilla. There's other tangential explanations, like wanting to know and learn more about modern day Japan, as well as just needing help locating Godzilla to begin with. Keep in mind they are time travelers operating off a book, so they aren't as familar with current Japan and to them WW2 was ancient history.

It's also implied that originally the plan wasn't to destroy Japan, but rather infiltrate it and change the time line more peacefully, as indicated by Emi's shock when they use King Ghidorah as a destructive tool. Therefore, pretending to solve a solution to a a major problem that didn't exist (Godzilla actually would've stayed dead/incapacitated due to the ANEB if it weren't for them) was a good way to earn their trust.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by Legion1979 »

Watching this on PlutoTV (because...duh) and the opening moments of Ghidorah's rampage are just...bad. Really bad. I feel like people rag on Kawakita's later effects but even as early as 1991 he was doing stuff that just didn't work. In only a minute of screen time we get..

1) A very stiff flying Ghidorah puppet worse than anything Tsuburaya did in the 1960s.
2) The first of Kawakita's lame shadow effects, where a perfect black silhouette of a monster passes over fleeing crowds in a way that shadows do not in real life.
3) Terrible, terrible matted explosions over location footage, which are practically transparent and you can see nothing is actually happening to the buildings they're matted over. It didn't look good when Tsuburaya did it in the '50s and it absolutely didn't look good in 1991.
4) Special effects matted behind location footage, which would look okay if the cars on the bridge parallel to Ghidorah's rampage weren't casually traveling in both directions.

Godzila VS King Ghidorah is still a lot of fun, but it's really lucky it (like all the other 90s films and Biollante) didn't get a theatrical release here. It would have been laughed right off the screen.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by UltramanGoji »

The jet fighter scene later on is also pretty terrible. It looks like the jets and Ghidorah are flying in a big sky box and the Ghidorah prop is horrendously stiff.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Legion1979 wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 2:00 pm 1) A very stiff flying Ghidorah puppet worse than anything Tsuburaya did in the 1960s.
2) The first of Kawakita's lame shadow effects, where a perfect black silhouette of a monster passes over fleeing crowds in a way that shadows do not in real life.
3) Terrible, terrible matted explosions over location footage, which are practically transparent and you can see nothing is actually happening to the buildings they're matted over. It didn't look good when Tsuburaya did it in the '50s and it absolutely didn't look good in 1991.
4) Special effects matted behind location footage, which would look okay if the cars on the bridge parallel to Ghidorah's rampage weren't casually traveling in both directions.
Without having to look up anything you've described, I know EXACTLY what you're referencing. And, you've also summed up pretty much all the main problems with the Heisei effects. The shadow effects are really bad.

I know this is a discussion thread for Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, but other than the shadows, #3 and #4 unfold in in the opening Hong Kong sequence in Godzilla vs. Destoroyah 1995. I can forgive a stiff Ghidorah prop, but it really is immersion breaking whenever you see a highway where things appear to be completely normal. It happens multiple times in the Heisei series, another egregious moment being in Mothra's rampage in 1992. They're bad, because once you notice it, it really is distracting. Often now, when I see these scenes, instead of trying to enjoy the monster action or rampage, I'm looking at the highway and for flaws. Tsubaraya has the benefit of the doubt that in the 50s and 60s, perhaps he didn't think people would be able to so easily rewatch and notice things like that, but the Heisei series gets no such allowances.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by Legion1979 »

The very worst example of #4 is right after the title card of Godzilla VS Destroyer where Godzilla is rampaging through Hong Kong and people are just walking around in the street like absolutely nothing is happening. That sequence should have ended right after the main title. Everything else totally breaks the immersion.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by edgaguirus »

UltramanGoji wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:01 pm The jet fighter scene later on is also pretty terrible. It looks like the jets and Ghidorah are flying in a big sky box and the Ghidorah prop is horrendously stiff.
When the jets and KG are on screen together, it looks stiffer than the Mothra prop in BftE.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

Post by HedorahIsBestGirl »

The glaring special effects issues are one of the biggest reasons I object to GvKG being grouped in with its two predecessors as one of the Good Heisei Films™. All of the effects failures that plagued the later 90s movies first reared their ugly heads here. When I did my whole chronological rewatch of the series about half a year back, it was flat out embarrassing watching GvKG after Return of Godzilla and Biollante. The effects quality downgrade is honestly staggering.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991)

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HedorahIsBestGirl wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:44 pm The glaring special effects issues are one of the biggest reasons I object to GvKG being grouped in with its two predecessors as one of the Good Heisei Films™. All of the effects failures that plagued the later 90s movies first reared their ugly heads here. When I did my whole chronological rewatch of the series about half a year back, it was flat out embarrassing watching GvKG after Return of Godzilla and Biollante. The effects quality downgrade is honestly staggering.
And yet ironically Kawakita won an academy award for SPX for Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah while Bio did not.
GVK: TNE is a modern day 70s Showa Godzilla movie. Being a massive budget modern blockbuster CGI film instead of traditional 70s tokusatsu techniques doesn't change that. Fight me.

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