Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Part 2 was just corny lol. The entire plot relies on a generic thematic narrative that is literally fisted down your throat from beginning to end, since Druckmann is a weirdo, and the resolution is even worse because it attempts to follow through and create a thematic tie up but fails because no one cares enough about one character and cares plenty about another. Plus most people would make a different choice than the one made by this point in the game.

I really hoped TLOU2 would be an original story, but with Druckmann at the helm, he’s already said it’ll remain faithful. So while I enjoyed Season 1, I will not be tuning in for Season 2.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Gigantis wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:58 am
godjacob wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:21 am The answer to the question is simple.
Spoiler:
"Morally ambiguous" characters get way too simplified by their fans as being misunderstood and downplay any of the actually bad/selfish things they do because they like them. You can see this with other characters like Walter White, Dexter or Tony Soprano.
Spoiler:
Like, Dexter's Laboratory Dexter?
Spoiler:
No the serial killer from the Showtime series Dexter. But believe me that was my first thought when I heard of the guy lol
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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godjacob wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:21 am
LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:17 am In regards to the Last of Us Discussion above. Do not click if you're enjoying the TV show and haven't played 2.
Spoiler:
I know that Joel dies, but I have zero context for why it happens or what happens, just that it pissed a lot of people off. I played 1, but not part 2. However, I don't know why it would piss so many people off. The whole series and plot was pretty much centered around people making the best of a bleak reality, and the conclusion of the first game was basically a confirmation that despite best efforts, everyone lives in a harsh and brutal world. Both the TV show and game made it clear that Joel is morally ambiguous and has killed/murdered innocent people before, just to prolong his own existence. I Likewise, there's dozens of times that Joel is put in precarious situations throughout the game. I'm confused why this is an issue, when it's clearly the type of game/media where characters living through to the end is a very unlikely scenario.

Funny enough, I have an interesting anecdote related to The Last of of Us Part 2. A few years ago, around the films release, I was living in a much more rural part of Japan. A former co-worker of mine, another American, invited to me to his home for a BBQ. I went, and I met his son, who was my age (awkward dynamic to begin with). We had a very casual conversation about videogames, and I mentioned being interested in getting LOTU2 but being dismayed because I didn't have a PS4 at the time, and he suddenly went into a very unhinged rant, spoiling Joel's death, and explicitly blaming feminism for it somehow (?). Like I kid you not he said verbatim, "Games were better when they didn't have feminism in them". It was a big red flag, one thing lead to another, and I quickly realized the co-worker and his family were a weird sect of Christians, all intent on converting me (and Japanese people around them) to whatever weird cult they were in. If you casually mention being interested in something, as a way of making small-talk to pass time with someone you just met, and they go on an unhinged rant, GET AWAY!
The answer to the question is simple.
Spoiler:
"Morally ambiguous" characters get way too simplified by their fans as being misunderstood and downplay any of the actually bad/selfish things they do because they like them. You can see this with other characters like Walter White, Dexter or Tony Soprano. As long as fans think you are "cool" and/or have a sad backstory you can get away with literal murder. Course this applies to dudes, try applying this to a female character and you'll get endless whine fests of them being "unlikeable" and ruining the experience or something.
Uh… Ada Wong, Daenerys, Kitana, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Scarlett Witch, Yennefer from the Witcher, Arya Stark, actually most of the GOT cast, Fennec Shand, Bo Katan, the list goes on quite significantly from Games to Books to Shows to Film.

So that’s a false equivalence
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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_JNavs_ wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:24 am
godjacob wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:21 am
LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:17 am In regards to the Last of Us Discussion above. Do not click if you're enjoying the TV show and haven't played 2.
Spoiler:
I know that Joel dies, but I have zero context for why it happens or what happens, just that it pissed a lot of people off. I played 1, but not part 2. However, I don't know why it would piss so many people off. The whole series and plot was pretty much centered around people making the best of a bleak reality, and the conclusion of the first game was basically a confirmation that despite best efforts, everyone lives in a harsh and brutal world. Both the TV show and game made it clear that Joel is morally ambiguous and has killed/murdered innocent people before, just to prolong his own existence. I Likewise, there's dozens of times that Joel is put in precarious situations throughout the game. I'm confused why this is an issue, when it's clearly the type of game/media where characters living through to the end is a very unlikely scenario.

Funny enough, I have an interesting anecdote related to The Last of of Us Part 2. A few years ago, around the films release, I was living in a much more rural part of Japan. A former co-worker of mine, another American, invited to me to his home for a BBQ. I went, and I met his son, who was my age (awkward dynamic to begin with). We had a very casual conversation about videogames, and I mentioned being interested in getting LOTU2 but being dismayed because I didn't have a PS4 at the time, and he suddenly went into a very unhinged rant, spoiling Joel's death, and explicitly blaming feminism for it somehow (?). Like I kid you not he said verbatim, "Games were better when they didn't have feminism in them". It was a big red flag, one thing lead to another, and I quickly realized the co-worker and his family were a weird sect of Christians, all intent on converting me (and Japanese people around them) to whatever weird cult they were in. If you casually mention being interested in something, as a way of making small-talk to pass time with someone you just met, and they go on an unhinged rant, GET AWAY!
The answer to the question is simple.
Spoiler:
"Morally ambiguous" characters get way too simplified by their fans as being misunderstood and downplay any of the actually bad/selfish things they do because they like them. You can see this with other characters like Walter White, Dexter or Tony Soprano. As long as fans think you are "cool" and/or have a sad backstory you can get away with literal murder. Course this applies to dudes, try applying this to a female character and you'll get endless whine fests of them being "unlikeable" and ruining the experience or something.
Uh… Ada Wong, Daenerys, Kitana, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Scarlett Witch, Yennefer from the Witcher, Arya Stark, actually most of the GOT cast, Fennec Shand, Bo Katan, the list goes on quite significantly from Games to Books to Shows to Film.

So that’s a false equivalence
Seem to miss a lot of discourse of these characters if you list these as unquestioned non-contentious examples.

Also I defiantly would not call Catwoman the same type of example as say Walter, Tony or those kind of more truly morally ambiguous characters.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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godjacob wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:32 am Seem to miss a lot of discourse of these characters if you list these as unquestioned non-contentious examples.

Also I defiantly would not call Catwoman the same type of example as say Walter, Tony or those kind of more truly morally ambiguous characters.
Small-time discourse amongst communities is one thing, that’s inevitable for any character in any fandom. Daenerys struck nerves because her story took an abrupt left turn and book-readers disagreed with the choice, and Arya was hailed as a saving grace of the entire show. Harley suffers near to no discourse besides her character being treated as completely unintelligent as of the New 52 onward, and her new persona as a poster child for DC in response to Deadpool.

Scarlet Witch suffers discourse because of her small fanatics who make themselves known on social media, but besides that there is very little whining about her existence as she’s one of the few respectfully written characters of the modern MCU.

As far as Catwoman goes, I mean she’s like the defining morally gray Batman character. Tony, Walter, etc. do what they do because they feel they have too for their families, regardless of legalities. They let their emotions get the best of them and step away from the light when the opportunity presents itself, these are characteristics of Catwoman as well. Selina tries to protect those like her, and even her sometimes live-in best friend.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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_JNavs_ wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:54 am
godjacob wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:32 am Seem to miss a lot of discourse of these characters if you list these as unquestioned non-contentious examples.

Also I defiantly would not call Catwoman the same type of example as say Walter, Tony or those kind of more truly morally ambiguous characters.
Small-time discourse amongst communities is one thing, that’s inevitable for any character in any fandom. Daenerys struck nerves because her story took an abrupt left turn and book-readers disagreed with the choice, and Arya was hailed as a saving grace of the entire show. Harley suffers near to no discourse besides her character being treated as completely unintelligent as of the New 52 onward, and her new persona as a poster child for DC in response to Deadpool.

Scarlet Witch suffers discourse because of her small fanatics who make themselves known on social media, but besides that there is very little whining about her existence as she’s one of the few respectfully written characters of the modern MCU.

As far as Catwoman goes, I mean she’s like the defining morally gray Batman character. Tony, Walter, etc. do what they do because they feel they have too for their families, regardless of legalities. They let their emotions get the best of them and step away from the light when the opportunity presents itself, these are characteristics of Catwoman as well. Selina tries to protect those like her, and even her sometimes live-in best friend.
Except these rarely are just small time discourse. Harley Quinn being a female Deadpool has been the main talking point about her for years now and her being put in so many things has only added to that toxic attitude to her, Arya seemed to draw more scorn the more capable she became and Deanerys already had people on her case even before GOT general writing tanked for the show after her "break the wheel" speech.

Scarlet Witch discourse certainly isn't "small fanatics" as many people feel she is this irredeemable monster who deserves death with MOM only sparking those flames all over again, these same people also love to talk how much they enjoy Loki.

Catwoman in most incarnations is a literal cat thief who is occasional ally for Bruce and a foil most other times, she generally avoids doing much that would raise any larger moral concerns and if anything Red Hood when he first came back was the true moral grey character among the Batman mythos.

Either way seemed to miss my general point of it being part of the reason for the reaction to TLOU II discourse.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Gigantis wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:58 am
godjacob wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:21 am The answer to the question is simple.
Spoiler:
"Morally ambiguous" characters get way too simplified by their fans as being misunderstood and downplay any of the actually bad/selfish things they do because they like them. You can see this with other characters like Walter White, Dexter or Tony Soprano.
Spoiler:
Like, Dexter's Laboratory Dexter?
Spoiler:
no not that Dexter,I think he means Dexter from Dexter. Wrong Dexter.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Major sssspielberg! wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:10 pm
Gigantis wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:58 am
godjacob wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:21 am The answer to the question is simple.
Spoiler:
"Morally ambiguous" characters get way too simplified by their fans as being misunderstood and downplay any of the actually bad/selfish things they do because they like them. You can see this with other characters like Walter White, Dexter or Tony Soprano.
Spoiler:
Like, Dexter's Laboratory Dexter?
Spoiler:
no not that Dexter,I think he means Dexter from Dexter. Wrong Dexter.
Spoiler:
Sorry, didn't realize they were so many Dexter's Dextering around. Hard to keep track of all these Dexters.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Gigantis wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:27 pm
Major sssspielberg! wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:10 pm
Gigantis wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:58 am
Spoiler:
Like, Dexter's Laboratory Dexter?
Spoiler:
no not that Dexter,I think he means Dexter from Dexter. Wrong Dexter.
Spoiler:
Sorry, didn't realize they were so many Dexter's Dextering around. Hard to keep track of all these Dexters.
Spoiler:
Into the Dexterverse when? XD
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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1. The Katana blade is over-exposed in pop-culture. We deserve to see more historical weapons represented.
2. Similarly to #1, I think oversized swords like the ones that Guts and Cloud Strife use are also overexposed. In addition to being impractical, I think they look dumb.
3. Like Zombies, it is time to move on from Superhero movies and TV shows.

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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LegendZilla wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:04 pm 1. The Katana blade is over-exposed in pop-culture. We deserve to see more historical weapons represented.
2. Similarly to #1, I think oversized swords like the ones that Guts and Cloud Strife use are also overexposed. In addition to being impractical, I think they look dumb.
3. Like Zombies, it is time to move on from Superhero movies and TV shows.
I mean, more to the point, the Katana is not as crazy-good as some people or media make it out to be. I think more awareness of the efficacy of Katanas would be good.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Scarlet Witch discourse certainly isn't "small fanatics" as many people feel she is this irredeemable monster who deserves death with MOM only sparking those flames all over again, these same people also love to talk how much they enjoy Loki.
That's definitely there! It's also complex than that because Scarlet Witch has been a character in the Marvel film universe for many years but there was never a lot of excitement or interest in her as a hero (I was one of the few) until the possibility of her having a villain arc came up and suddenly sparked interest. This is amplified a lot by her most famous comics moment before 'no more mutants', something that is both divisive and unforgivable to a huge chunk of audiences, but is seen as iconic by many comic fans... but it's so much baggage. She's been a slasher movie villain who threatens kids and responsible for genocide. Those are both huge red lines for people, and I personally feel once you have a character threaten the life of a child, you're permanently crossing a line for some of your audience. I know people who were uncomfortable with Black Widow based on this as well.

It's also worth noting that Multiverse of Madness alters the metatext of Wandavision considerably. The show caught a lot of fire when it aired because it was very open to interpretation and differing readings, and the complexity of her character didn't fit too neatly into a box, but now that we know where she is in the film, it can only be read a descent. I've seen firsthand in discussions with friends who argue the series is indicting the sitcom format by showcasing that nostalgia leads to extremism... rewatching with that in mind takes away from the scenes that build sympathy for her, considering the sitcom element especially is woven back to her own childhood; turning that into a representation of her poor mental health turns her into a ticking time bomb.

Before all of that though, there was and still is within the bigger sea of discourse, a group of Tony Stark fanatics who will never, ever forgive her for the vision she gave him in Age of Ultron and how it "traumatized" him, because anyone who does Tony wrong in the smallest way is going to be the worst person imaginable to them.

If you want a good example of a small group of online fanatics though, there ae many who chime in on every Mandalorian discussion just to insist Bo-Katan is an egotistical, prissy, stuck-up bitch, usually citing off-screen events or smaller interactions from the previous series set twenty years earlier-plus, even though in the context of this show she's really not really done anything egregious here and is still clearly playing a supporting role.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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LegendZilla wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:04 pm 1. The Katana blade is over-exposed in pop-culture. We deserve to see more historical weapons represented.
2. Similarly to #1, I think oversized swords like the ones that Guts and Cloud Strife use are also overexposed. In addition to being impractical, I think they look dumb.
3. Like Zombies, it is time to move on from Superhero movies and TV shows.
Katana is one of those customary symbols much as a weapon, basically the iconography of the Samurai which are popular choices. So don't think we'll see it go away anytime soon.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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_JNavs_ wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:54 am Tony, Walter, etc. do what they do because they feel they have too for their families, regardless of legalities.
Err no... Walter White didn't do what he did for his family. Sure, he tells himself that all throughout the series but it's almost always a veiled excuse to appease his power fantasy.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Plus, Breaking Bad also makes it clear that a large part of White's actions are part of a larger revenge fantasy against people that screwed him over. I believe early on, that Walter probably did partially believe, and rationalized that what he was doing was right, but the show makes it clear that Walter is more concerned by embarassment (car wash) than really his family. It's never really outright stated, and it's a nasty thought, but it's clear to some extent that Walter is embarassed by Walt Jrs. disability despite being a well-adjusted and normal, if not slightly awkward teenager.

In regards to Tony Soprano, the show makes it very obvious throughout that Tony is a self-serving psychopath. He cares about Meadow and AJ, sure, but only as a way to keep appearances. There's a trend in the Sopranos for something major to happen, and Tony to seemingly change, only for him to revert very quickly to EXACTLY how he was in a couple of episodes.

Pretty big spoilers for Sopranos, a show that is still worth watching if you never had. Actually yeah, don't read this if you haven't seen the show:
Spoiler:
Melfi, pretty much confirms that Tony is a sociopath, and other than the ending of the show, the final conversation that Tony and her have, is basically the climax. In all instances, Tony is shown to have something major happen to him, be very temporarily affected by it, and then revert to the status quo of being a self-serving murderer.

When another goon, Coco I thin, sexually harasses Meadow, Tony is, understandably outraged. However, a part of that is less to do with someone he loves being insulted, but rather someone insult "MY daughter". Tony is a POS to Carmilla throughout the show, with Tony repeatedly cheating on her. Once again, it's clear that if Carmilla ever cheats on him, which does happen but isn't found out, said person will be murdered. In fact, this culminates with Furio fleeing, because Tony suspects that he and Carmilla have feelings for one another. I forget exactly how it plays out, but AJ's attempted suicide is futher evidence of this. Tony embraces AJ, and it seems like Tony will finally care about Tony more, but instead scenes in later episodes just show it all being the same shit over again.

And to be clear, I'm not claiming that Tony doesn't "love" his family, just that a large part of that love is based in keeping up self-serving appearances. Tony doesn't do what he does for his family, at all. If he did, he wouldn't be involved in the Mafia.

Let's not forget about what happens to Tony Blundento, or Christopher Moltisanti, two supposed members of the family.The instant someone isn't useful to Tony, and is a problem, Tony has no issue getting rid of them.

The genius of The Sopranos, is that it manages to make Tony an interesting, and likeable character, who people want to follow and learn more about.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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While part of me wished it had, ultimately it's okay that Prehistoric Planet didn't follow the "story" driven angle that Walking With Dinosaurs did. It makes it feel all the more like most Nature documentaries do; it took a more "Documentary about Ecosystems" route as opposed to the "Documentary about one species/clade/order" path.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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I'll be honest, even if a documentary about CGI dinosaurs, I don't watch one for a story I watch it to learn about these amazing real life creatures and what they were like. There is a place for sensationalized dinosaurs and programs like Prehistoric Planet that just go for a full nature doc vibe.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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I don't like stories in my nature documentaries to begin with. They're usually fabricated. You shoot a bunch of random footage of lions (any lions; no one will notice if you swap different prides out) doing lion things for months on end, and then you pick out a bunch of cool or noteworthy snippets and cobble them together into a 'story' to tell over the course of 45 minutes. You caught some footage of the pride killing a zebra? Great, that's the intro where the pride is at the height of their power and The Old Female is leading them to glory. You have some footage of lions laying around looking miserable in the summer heat, and maybe The Old Female isn't around for a few shots? She died, and now they're all starving and desperate. Bonus points if there's footage of routine squabbling with hyenas and a mother calling for her cubs; you can really squeeze drama out of that. Footage of another successful kill? Now The Young Female has risen up to lead them to glory again! Roll credits.

Or if you just want a quick action scene in a larger doc but don't actually have any good footage to use, just BS something. Show a monkey screeching, a monkey jumping through the trees, a monkey running from something, baby monkeys looking like they're watching something, more screeching, and some calm monkeys. String it together and have the narrator dramatically walk us through the Alpha Male's harrowing battle to save the troop from the Trespasser. This stuff is everywhere, if you pay attention.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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JAGzilla wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:16 pm I don't like stories in my nature documentaries to begin with. They're usually fabricated. You shoot a bunch of random footage of lions (any lions; no one will notice if you swap different prides out) doing lion things for months on end, and then you pick out a bunch of cool or noteworthy snippets and cobble them together into a 'story' to tell over the course of 45 minutes. You caught some footage of the pride killing a zebra? Great, that's the intro where the pride is at the height of their power and The Old Female is leading them to glory. You have some footage of lions laying around looking miserable in the summer heat, and maybe The Old Female isn't around for a few shots? She died, and now they're all starving and desperate. Bonus points if there's footage of routine squabbling with hyenas and a mother calling for her cubs; you can really squeeze drama out of that. Footage of another successful kill? Now The Young Female has risen up to lead them to glory again! Roll credits.

Or if you just want a quick action scene in a larger doc but don't actually have any good footage to use, just BS something. Show a monkey screeching, a monkey jumping through the trees, a monkey running from something, baby monkeys looking like they're watching something, more screeching, and some calm monkeys. String it together and have the narrator dramatically walk us through the Alpha Male's harrowing battle to save the troop from the Trespasser. This stuff is everywhere, if you pay attention.
To say nothing of how often the sound effects are edited in there—sometimes originating from completely different animals (something Hollywood is no stranger to). Like a documentary about lions but with leopard sounds added in to make them sound mightier.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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ShinGojira14 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:46 am
JAGzilla wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:16 pm I don't like stories in my nature documentaries to begin with. They're usually fabricated. You shoot a bunch of random footage of lions (any lions; no one will notice if you swap different prides out) doing lion things for months on end, and then you pick out a bunch of cool or noteworthy snippets and cobble them together into a 'story' to tell over the course of 45 minutes. You caught some footage of the pride killing a zebra? Great, that's the intro where the pride is at the height of their power and The Old Female is leading them to glory. You have some footage of lions laying around looking miserable in the summer heat, and maybe The Old Female isn't around for a few shots? She died, and now they're all starving and desperate. Bonus points if there's footage of routine squabbling with hyenas and a mother calling for her cubs; you can really squeeze drama out of that. Footage of another successful kill? Now The Young Female has risen up to lead them to glory again! Roll credits.

Or if you just want a quick action scene in a larger doc but don't actually have any good footage to use, just BS something. Show a monkey screeching, a monkey jumping through the trees, a monkey running from something, baby monkeys looking like they're watching something, more screeching, and some calm monkeys. String it together and have the narrator dramatically walk us through the Alpha Male's harrowing battle to save the troop from the Trespasser. This stuff is everywhere, if you pay attention.
To say nothing of how often the sound effects are edited in there—sometimes originating from completely different animals (something Hollywood is no stranger to). Like a documentary about lions but with leopard sounds added in to make them sound mightier.
The worst has to be when they add roars and weird vocalizations to reptiles that can really only hiss if they're in full defensive mode.
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