The Godzilla Cringe Thread

[_JNavs_]

Like I mentioned, I don't really watch anime (I do want to change that soon), so I can't speak too much on it, and its kinda off topic anyway, but I've definitely seen a lot of....lets just say uneccessarily sexualized characters in anime. In that the shows aren't hentai or porn or anything but the female characters still seem to have a lot of emphasis on their boobs and body and what not. One Piece, that character's name is Nami, right? , was an example that comes to mind. Gurren Lagann and Kill La Kill also come to mind. To me, its very off putting, but I also have been making a lot of generalizations myself and thats why I want to give anime a fair chance.

Yeah I mean I'd highly recommend a lot of the action stuff. Maybe start with the more wide appeal stories first and work from there. One thing I've noticed is many women are actually super attracted to tons of guys and women in anime, be it Itachi, Sasuke, Kakashi, Naruto, Hinata, Sakura, etc. and that's just Naruto... Sky is the limit in terms of attractive people in anime because the animation styles are so appealing. I'd argue a focus on eye candy is something the Japanese love to keep in mind regardless of attraction. Which is why there's absolute machoism in shirtless guys like Guts from Berserk, Goku (and literally everyone else in DBZ), One Piece, etc. and the women finding themselves in the same target zone.

I'd recommend Cyberpunk Edgerunners as that show is unfathomably great for a short series on Netflix, but as it pertains to the Cyberpunk genre, it's inevitably going to have romanticized sexualizations (which I feel benefits the quality as opposed to detracts here)

But yeah the topic kinda got lost somewhere in the thread lol.

[edgaguirus]

It was years ago, but I read a letter in a weekend magazine that asked why competent and strong female characters in American crime shows still are featured in tight clothes or revealing a bit of cleavage. The short answer was that it helps sell the show to male viewers. Of course, these shows also feature handsome men for the other half. In entertainment, no matter what country, beauty/handsomeness will always be a factor.

[Executive Hamster]

Yeah but it definitely feels DIFFERENT for women, at least most of the time. Like OBVIOUSLY every show is going to have attractive characters, man and women, but on top of that it often feels like an extra layer of objectification is added to the women. This isn't always the case, but its just something Ive noticed.

[Spuro]

It's not necessarily Godzilla-specific but i figured it would fit the bill for this thread.

[CyberZilla]

Anytime I see posts about how humans shouldn’t be in the movies, I cringe. As much as the monsters are the stars, a solid human story goes a long way to enhancing the experience and narrative. The best and most acclaimed of the Godzilla movies have compelling or even great human stories. See Gojira, Shin Godzilla, GvsBiollante, the list goes on…

[LSD Jellyfish]

Anytime I see posts about how humans shouldn’t be in the movies, I cringe. As much as the monsters are the stars, a solid human story goes a long way to enhancing the experience and narrative. The best and most acclaimed of the Godzilla movies have compelling or even great human stories. See Gojira, Shin Godzilla, GvsBiollante, the list goes on…

Agreed wholeheartedly.

After the release of the Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire I started reading random comments on youtube videos, ign/public posting places, and yikes a lot of the comments were really stupid. Shit like, "stop wasting time on human characters" or "would be better without the humans". Really annoying to me personally, and it also sets up a weird either or situation where you can't have good monsters and good characters.

I considered and or am still in the process of writing up why the idea of the "Godzilla series doesn't have human characters" is largely based in a faulty view of western media criticism and what is "high art", but I keep losing the energy to full execute it.

[CyberZilla]

Anytime I see posts about how humans shouldn’t be in the movies, I cringe. As much as the monsters are the stars, a solid human story goes a long way to enhancing the experience and narrative. The best and most acclaimed of the Godzilla movies have compelling or even great human stories. See Gojira, Shin Godzilla, GvsBiollante, the list goes on…

Agreed wholeheartedly.

After the release of the Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire I started reading random comments on youtube videos, ign/public posting places, and yikes a lot of the comments were really stupid. Shit like, "stop wasting time on human characters" or "would be better without the humans". Really annoying to me personally, and it also sets up a weird either or situation where you can't have good monsters and good characters.

I considered and or am still in the process of writing up why the idea of the "Godzilla series doesn't have human characters" is largely based in a faulty view of western media criticism and what is "high art", but I keep losing the energy to full execute it.

If it’s any consolation, I would be very interested in reading a write-up like that!

[StardustGenius]

Okay y'all, but in the context of the Transformers movies, I WOULD LIKE MORE FOCUS ON THEM, which is what this meme was originally about. I dunno about you, but I would like more focus on the Transformers.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Okay y'all, but in the context of the Transformers movies, I WOULD LIKE MORE FOCUS ON THEM, which is what this meme was originally about. I dunno about you, but I would like more focus on the Transformers.

That's true, but I also think thats a fundamental difference between Transformers and Godzilla. The Transformers are defintitvely the protagonists and speak. While human characters do exist, they aren't super common and you can completely remove humans from the equation. Funnily enough this is why Transformers and Godzilla are apples and oranges.

[JVM]

Okay y'all, but in the context of the Transformers movies, I WOULD LIKE MORE FOCUS ON THEM, which is what this meme was originally about. I dunno about you, but I would like more focus on the Transformers.

That's true, but I also think thats a fundamental difference between Transformers and Godzilla. The Transformers are defintitvely the protagonists and speak. While human characters do exist, they aren't super common and you can completely remove humans from the equation. Funnily enough this is why Transformers and Godzilla are apples and oranges.

This, ironically, is why I find myself much less interested in Transformers -- giant mechs, robots and the like tend to have really human-like characteristics while kaiju tend to lean towards animals and have to rely on non-verbal cues.

[CyberZilla]

Okay y'all, but in the context of the Transformers movies, I WOULD LIKE MORE FOCUS ON THEM, which is what this meme was originally about. I dunno about you, but I would like more focus on the Transformers.

For sure. Transformers is all about the giant sentient robots. The humans can be charming but we’re here for the stories of Optimus and co. For them, the humans aren’t always necessary components.

It’s hard to compare it to Godzilla or King Kong because the monsters are excellent parallels and foils for humans. Their stories are so intrinsically involved with humans (and sometimes, aliens) because of the nature of their origins thematically. That, and the monsters don’t speak, so the humans help give necessary context with dialogue for the audience. It’s not impossible to do a kaiju story without humans, but I think the reason the best Godzilla and Kong films succeed is because the human story complements the monster side. Both sides, ideally, fulfill one another thematically and work in tandem.

[edgaguirus]

Humans or human like characters give the audience something they can relate to. It's possible to relate to a kaiju in certain situations, but not all the time. Besides, the best movies always have a good human storyline that adds to the kaiju excitement. G vs the Sea Monster wouldn't be as good as it is if it wasn't for our band of heroes. The same goes for Monster Zero and others.

[LSD Jellyfish]

One thing that people seem to constantly overlook is that kaiju movies are just honestly hard to write scripts for and develop compelling human characters. The writing for KotM isn’t THAT atrocious. Besides a few lame misplaced jokes, there wasn’t anything blatantly terrible IMO.

Handsome Shrek, I want to preemptively apologize to you. What you said here isn’t cringey, and I understand exactly what you’re getting at. However, it’s a good example of what ties into the above conversation and is easy for me to address.

To me, I don’t believe that that it’s anymore difficult to write human characters for kaiju media than any other genre. There’s a lot of emotion and drama that can be drawn out from having a disaster happen to you or how to address the aftermath of said destruction. Likewise the genre lends itself nicely to addressing wider social and political issues. HOWEVER, the issue is that by default, many of genre human protagonists tend to appear to be more passive than what might be an action hero. It’s my personal opinion that the reason why the adage “kaiju films don’t have good characters” is thrown out a lot, is because of this perceived passivity. It’s a tropic idea thrown out by people who feel that anytime human drama isn’t 100% always the focus, or where there isn’t “character development/growth” automatically equates to poor character writing and goals.

I need to give KOTM another watch. I’ll still dislike a lot of it, particularly the nukes and FOUL POTTY HUMOR
, but I’m more inclined to believe I’ll resonate with the “cli-fi elements” and take Maddison’s mother more seriously as an antagonist.

[JVM]

You know I almost typed up about how LSD was in the wrong thread, because I just posted a reply to this in the GvK thread, but I'm inclined to see LSD posted it here intentionally based on his apology for it not being cringey.

I'm going to try to avoid duplicating my post in the other thread about the same subject, but I think while dedicated kaiju fans can name several films that prove it is possible to write a great human story, I still feel on the whole it is quite difficult.

HOWEVER, the issue is that by default, many of genre human protagonists tend to appear to be more passive than what might be an action hero. It’s my personal opinion that the reason why the adage “kaiju films don’t have good characters” is thrown out a lot, is because of this perceived passivity. It’s a tropic idea thrown out by people who feel that anytime human drama isn’t 100% always the focus, or where there isn’t “character development/growth” automatically equates to poor character writing and goals.

This is so interesting, because this reminds me a lot of things I've though or said before, but it's also a position I've been reconsidering a lot lately. I definitely feel like audiences currently lean into both of those hallmarks -- an active preference for a dramatic human storyline, a dislike of passive protagonists, and the belief that a lack of growth is inherently poor writing. I think how audiences approach characters has transformed a lot. I felt as a kid there was a definitely more allowance to say 'I like this character for a superficial or design reason [but not a story reason]' and nowadays there is a lot more emphasis on story reasoning, and an increasing tendency in some communities to view characters with less screentime as inherently lacking depth or interest because of their lack of story role, rather than recognizing untapped potential. I don't know how much of this affects this community but I've seen it across multiple, unrelated ones.

By those lofty standards, I do think it's fair to say writing compelling human characters in these films is a difficult task, but if I follow along with the idea none of those things are requirements, then yeah, it's definitely not nearly as difficult.

I need to give KOTM another watch. I’ll still dislike a lot of it, particularly the nukes and FOUL POTTY HUMOR
, but I’m more inclined to believe I’ll resonate with the “cli-fi elements” and take Maddison’s mother more seriously as an antagonist.

Completely serious here -- how much potty humor was in the film? I remember the mating joke and the gonnorhea joke, and I feel like I'm probably missing one.

I viewed the mating joke, in context, as sort of intentionally crass, that the character was being crass to exhibit his disrespect for the Senate panel, and in that respect I thought it was an interesting bit of characterization for someone who otherwise had a fairly straightforward role in the movie. The gonnorhea joke is much poorer and I haven't a thought towards it. But I don't recall a lot of other crass jokes. I am almost certainly forgetting one but as someone who tends to enjoy crass humor (though not necessarily in straightforward science fiction!) I feel like I'd remember if it was more than that.

I'm not saying this to trivialize/debate, genuinely asking if I've missed something.

[JAGzilla]

^ The only other one I can think of is, "He's looking for food, a fight, or a f-"

I don't mind that one, really. It was slightly funny, and it makes sense in-universe, given that they didn't know Ghidorah's motivation and some previously active Titans actually had been looking for a f-.

[Dv-218]

The real question is, would that be considered a foursome?

[Gojira18]

The real question is, would that be considered a foursome?

Or a 1 and 3 halves....some?

[Dv-218]

The real question is, would that be considered a foursome?

Or a 1 and 3 halves....some?

A one-some by design, a four-some by the state of mind(s).

However, one must also account mathematics into this. Ghidorah’s design operates on the multiplication of body parts- he has three heads, and two tails. Now, if you go from bottom to top like an arching mountain, you can see a pattern of one body part added to the respective set- 2 becomes 3 in this case. So if we presume the same applies to the direction of the necks downwards….
Make of that as you will. And have fun sleeping at night.

[Gojira18]

The real question is, would that be considered a foursome?

Or a 1 and 3 halves....some?

A one-some by design, a four-some by the state of mind(s).

However, one must also account mathematics into this. Ghidorah’s design operates on the multiplication of body parts- he has three heads, and two tails. Now, if you go from bottom to top like an arching mountain, you can see a pattern of one body part added to the respective set- 2 becomes 3 in this case. So if we presume the same applies to the direction of the necks downwards….
Make of that as you will. And have fun sleeping at night.

Talking about a dumb line in a Godzilla movie and somehow I'm getting PTSD of my college math classes

[JVM]

^ The only other one I can think of is, "He's looking for food, a fight, or a f-"

I don't mind that one, really. It was slightly funny, and it makes sense in-universe, given that they didn't know Ghidorah's motivation and some previously active Titans actually had been looking for a f-.

Yeah, it really comes back to the Gonnorhea joke just being so bad it creates the perception the film is overflowing with such humor. The other two both make just enough sense in context to feel like character bits rather than audience pandering.

There's a lot of action and science fiction films in recent years that had only enough jokes you could count on one hand but were stereotyped as too comedic because the jokes weren't particularly good.