Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

Post by Tyrant_Lizard_King »

I love Son of Kong. I actually prefer it to the original.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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I think the NGE rebuild time loop theory is the stupidest way to engage with the films and I'm tired of it taking over discussion of the rebuilds.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Jetty_Jags wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:43 pm I think the NGE rebuild time loop theory is the stupidest way to engage with the films and I'm tired of it taking over discussion of the rebuilds.
Why? Does it ruin the original for you?

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Jetty_Jags wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:43 pm I think the NGE rebuild time loop theory is the stupidest way to engage with the films and I'm tired of it taking over discussion of the rebuilds.
I'm curious, what do you mean time loop theory?
Kaltes-Herzeleid wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:44 am I love Final Wars. I praise Final Wars. Simple as.

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Warning pretentious alert: I'm usually pretty anti-elitist and against gate keeping particularly with media engagement, but this is my one of my few exceptions (read: I recognize my own hypocrisy and I just don't care)

It has more to do with my own personal engagement with films, particularly how my tastes and philosophies have developed over the past few years, and my frustration with (I presume mainly western) audiences only engaging on works on a narrative/conscious level. To me it stems from this mindset that art is supposed to be "figured out", like a jigsaw puzzle. This piece of symbolism goes here, this narrative ambiguity goes there, all to get the complete picture, and voila now you've "done art". It's the same reason we see youtube videos titled "the ending of X explained" (on a tangent, is particularly funny when it's a relatively straightforward work), this is what really happened in the movie, and that's that. This is worsened by the trend of trying to connect everything together, surely everything must be like the MCU, hence the equally goofy Disney Pixar universe theory. No real talk of the why or how, just a race to "figure out" a work of art, with (and this part is especially relevant to my hatred of the time loop theory) particular bias on the literal narrative explanation.

Suddenly, people watch a narratively confusing movie, say The Lighthouse, or Eraserhead, and feel left out like they are missing something. The only thing they want to do is understand what it means, particularly in relation to what "actually happens". To me this is just silly, I think trying to make narrative sense of The Lighthouse and Eraserhead (and of course the latter half of NGE and sequels) is operating contrary to why these films work so well, the sense of confusion is intentional and by design. The craft is in the ambiguity, the uncertainty, and the uncomforting feeling of isolation and alienation which arises from these works, I believe these are the intended emotions the films are supposed to evoke, and they do so excellently.

I don't have a problem with pointing out the Jungian references to Proteus and Prometheus in Eggers' film, but when all anyone wants to know is what "actually happened", and then the greek myth lens gets repeated as nauseum as the "true interpretation", I get frustrated, because to me what's actually happening is the least interesting thing in the film (no one wants to talk about how it uses a gothic atmosphere to build dread, how it is structurally similar to the works of Poe, how it weaves uncertainty and ambiguity to create unease). This mindset creates an unnecessary hierarchy where every aspect of a film is in service to its narrative, rather than recognizing that perhaps the narrative is in service to other aspects of the art (be it thematically, emotionally, or even subconsciously). An example would be people trying to explain a magic trick, but instead of focusing on the actual illusionary tactics going on in the background and how it evokes a sense of wonder in the audience (dissecting the technical aspects of the medium to understand how the experience was created in the first place), they try to pigeonhole together a pseudoscientific teleportation theory to make the understanding of the rabbit's position coherent. Instead of understanding the art of the illusion, it further digs into the voids of the illusion, which were never the focus point to begin with. To switch back to Eraserhead, I don't care what the bleeding chickens literally represents or the "canonical" reason they are bleeding, because what's interesting about the scene they are in is how great it is at abstracting and evoking the fear of meeting of a lover's parents for the first time and how it achieves this, not what it "actually means".

Similarly with Eva, I think the time-loop theory (here's an overview Major ssspielberg this one argues against a timeloop in favor of a reality loop/multiverse but my point still holds: https://www.reddit.com/r/evangelion/com ... time_loop/) unproportionally focuses on the literal in world narrative and shifts discussion away from the actual metacontextual elements of the rebuild series. Whether or not the series are sequels, simultaneously parallel universes operating in tandem and having limited interaction with each other, isn't interesting to me, because time and time again Anno builds the story to divert focus away from these elements or outright lampoon the inworld narrative understanding. It's not even that the narrative is secondary to the experience Anno wants to evoke, but rather it's a means of delivering that experience, and once it gets used up as much as it needs to, it is discarded. But no one wants to talk about how these elements are used to tell the story, to provide depth to the characters, to build in references to past works as a means of engaging and transforming the past, they just want to dig into what is discarded and figure out what the spear of Cassius and anti-universe mean in the "lore". I don't have a problem with this in isolation, if people want to theory craft let them theory craft, but when all the discussion turns to "Kaworu proves the timeloop theory explained..." I get annoyed.

Now it seems when anyone brings up 3.0 + 1.0 it's about how their theory linking the rebuilds to the tv show was proved, or mostly right, or yada yada yada. It has dominated discourse on the film, and I think that's sad, particularly for a theory I personally find to be arduous at best. No talk about how 3.0 + 1.0 acts as a retrospective of the series itself, the prior rebuild films, and how it has changed the anime scene since its birth, no talk about how the Eva brand itself has gone through many iterations in different media not unlike the retelling of old myths and legends throughout the ages (albeit in a much more commercialized manner), nope Kaworu is literally talking about how he has experienced every universe which proves it's a sequel, no wait it's a multiverse, no wait it's a timeloop... so now we can move on to deciphering whatever the key of Nebuchadnezzar is supposed to do in universe.

Tldr: I'm annoyed that the theory dominates online discourse about the film towards narrative coherency (which I think is inherently futile), and away from evaluating the technical aspects of the work and their impact on the audience. Yes, this relies on the arrogant premise that "my reading/takeaway" of the film is better than someone else's, and to some extent that does make me hypocritical. But I'm not really arguing for my interpretation to be monolithic, just that narrative exclusionary discussions are myopic, and that I wished discourse moved beyond them.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Jetty_Jags wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:22 pm It has more to do with my own personal engagement with films, particularly how my tastes and philosophies have developed over the past few years, and my frustration with (I presume mainly western) audiences only engaging on works on a narrative/conscious level. To me it stems from this mindset that art is supposed to be "figured out", like a jigsaw puzzle. This piece of symbolism goes here, this narrative ambiguity goes there, all to get the complete picture, and voila now you've "done art". It's the same reason we see youtube videos titled "the ending of X explained" (on a tangent, is particularly funny when it's a relatively straightforward work), this is what really happened in the movie, and that's that. This is worsened by the trend of trying to connect everything together, surely everything must be like the MCU, hence the equally goofy Disney Pixar universe theory. No real talk of the why or how, just a race to "figure out" a work of art, with (and this part is especially relevant to my hatred of the time loop theory) particular bias on the literal narrative explanation.
I get what you mean 100%. I think a lot of this stems from, and originates how literature classes are taught in middle school and high school classes. Mathematical analysis is applied to books and movies. X means y, and Z is valuable because of Y. Some, but not all, of this thought process originates in western chauvinism, or dictation of elements of what “good literature/media” should contain. A lot of this connects to literature/media that connects to the audience via EMOTION and visuals, a disconnect from certain western critics. It’s why I personally gravitate towards a lot of magical realism works/non western literature, although clearly I am formed from the western cannon.

Novels by 1984 and Animal Farm by Orwell, are fantastic, monumental works, but being taught in the way they are, where literature and media must have symbolism and morals, are an increasingly frustrating notions.


Suddenly, people watch a narratively confusing movie, say The Lighthouse, or Eraserhead, and feel left out like they are missing something. The only thing they want to do is understand what it means, particularly in relation to what "actually happens". To me this is just silly, I think trying to make narrative sense of The Lighthouse and Eraserhead (and of course the latter half of NGE and sequels) is operating contrary to why these films work so well, the sense of confusion is intentional and by design. The craft is in the ambiguity, the uncertainty, and the uncomforting feeling of isolation and alienation which arises from these works, I believe these are the intended emotions the films are supposed to evoke, and they do so excellently.
I love a lot of David Lynch stuff, like Eraserhead, and get the subtext (it’s about becoming a father!), but some people can’t just appreciate unique or wild visuals. Sometimes people think that the subtext is so complicated, when it’s something simple, and they overthink it using the 1984 lens or animal farm lens, and it makes things frustrating for the viewer. I don’t know if the Lighthouse has meaning, beyond “isolation and strangeness” doing a difficult job, in an isolated time, but I love it.

I didn’t know anything about the Prometheus theory, or the Jungian stuff. It’s fascinating.
Tldr: I'm annoyed that the theory dominates online discourse about the film towards narrative coherency (which I think is inherently futile), and away from evaluating the technical aspects of the work and their impact on the audience. Yes, this relies on the arrogant premise that "my reading/takeaway" of the film is better than someone else's, and to some extent that does make me hypocritical. But I'm not really arguing for my interpretation to be monolithic, just that narrative exclusionary discussions are myopic, and that I wished discourse moved beyond them.
AND THATS JUST A THEORY, a FILM THEORY.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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I see what you mean Jetty and I'm with you 110%. I'll have more thoughts later I have to formulate them properly but tldr I think this issue you're expressing (like LSD said) is rooted in the way we're taught in the west to digest works in school.
I for one HATE the obsession with writing stories in a bog standard way, particularly the heroes journey. I feel like a lot of expectations for stories to play out a certain way (like the heroes journey) come from a such a western place, as does the expectation for stories to be able to be broken down into essays, if that makes sense. My second and third student films were written specifically to thumb my nose at the expectations people have for traditional narratives (whether I succeeded at either attempt is up for debate :lol:) but I hope that people come around to just ENJOYING their entertainment sometimes rather than trying to conjure up a hot take to feel special on the internet for twenty minutes.
Kaltes-Herzeleid wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:44 am I love Final Wars. I praise Final Wars. Simple as.

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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I can't put into words as to why, but my absolute least favorite 'Batman: The Animated Series' episode is 'See No Evil'.
Last edited by Leviarex on Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Leviarex wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:59 pm I can't put into words as to why, but my absolute least favorite 'Batman: The Animated Series' episode is 'See No Evil'.
Man the slander against such an iconic villain like Lloyd Ventrix. SMH lol

Far as DCAU unpopular opinion goes, I hate the Justice League Unlimited Episode "The Little Piggy", we get one of Wonder Woman's biggest antagonists in Circe...and the episode has Wonder Woman turned into a damsel pig of all things for Batman to rescue. An utter waste as the episode.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:21 pm I love Son of Kong. I actually prefer it to the original.
Certainly, the former has the better human characterization, but when it comes to the stop-motion sequences, it's no contest as to which one takes home the cake.
Last edited by Leviarex on Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

Post by Tyrant_Lizard_King »

SoK looks phenomenal when you consider just how fast O'Brien had to churn those effects out.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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They should lay the original continuity of Star Wars to rest and with a reboot. They same goes for Power Rangers after the untimely passing of JDF. Also, Akira Toriyama should step down at being the sole creative authority of Dragonball.

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Jetty_Jags wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:43 pm I think the NGE rebuild time loop theory is the stupidest way to engage with the films and I'm tired of it taking over discussion of the rebuilds.
lol yeah I'm not even gonna read the mega-post. I mean, it's sorta fun nerd-wank, but it's much more interesting (IMO!) to view them metafictionally (especially the final film).

But yeah, it reminds me a bit of the silliness of continuity conversations in the Godzilla realm. Mildly amusing in a pointless way but missing the broader picture.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Spoiler alert for people who haven’t played The Last of Us games or don’t know why TLOU Part II is so infamous.
Spoiler:
I hope Abby murders Joel at some point in HBO’s The Last of Us, just to spite all the mentally unstable asshats that gave Laura Bailey hell following The Last: Part II.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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ShinGojira14 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:52 pm Spoiler alert for people who haven’t played The Last of Us games or don’t know why TLOU Part II is so infamous.
Spoiler:
I hope Abby murders Joel at some point in HBO’s The Last of Us, just to spite all the mentally unstable asshats that gave Laura Bailey hell following The Last: Part II.
Spoiler:
Yeah anyone who sends death threats to a real person just cause they don't like the development in a game can go to hell.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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godjacob wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:12 pm
ShinGojira14 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:52 pm Spoiler alert for people who haven’t played The Last of Us games or don’t know why TLOU Part II is so infamous.
Spoiler:
I hope Abby murders Joel at some point in HBO’s The Last of Us, just to spite all the mentally unstable asshats that gave Laura Bailey hell following The Last: Part II.
Spoiler:
Yeah anyone who sends death threats to a real person just cause they don't like the development in a game can go to hell.
Spoiler:
People who genuinely can’t tell the difference between a fictional character and reality genuinely scare me.

Like, when The Walking Dead: A New Frontier came out and killed off my personal favorite character in the franchise, I was sad as fuck about it—but even I know the difference between fiction and reality.

Criticizing media that one personally doesn’t like is one thing…but directly attacking those involved with its creation based solely on what happens in the story?

That’s a red line, there.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Spoiler:
^Joel's death should be better handled in the TV show. He should at least put up a good fight before a heroic sacrifice on his part.
Last edited by UltramanGoji on Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Seriously, you see everyone putting spoiler tags around something and you just don’t even bother yourself? Fuckin’ ponderous, man.

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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In regards to the Last of Us Discussion above. Do not click if you're enjoying the TV show and haven't played 2.
Spoiler:
I know that Joel dies, but I have zero context for why it happens or what happens, just that it pissed a lot of people off. I played 1, but not part 2. However, I don't know why it would piss so many people off. The whole series and plot was pretty much centered around people making the best of a bleak reality, and the conclusion of the first game was basically a confirmation that despite best efforts, everyone lives in a harsh and brutal world. Both the TV show and game made it clear that Joel is morally ambiguous and has killed/murdered innocent people before, just to prolong his own existence. I Likewise, there's dozens of times that Joel is put in precarious situations throughout the game. I'm confused why this is an issue, when it's clearly the type of game/media where characters living through to the end is a very unlikely scenario.

Funny enough, I have an interesting anecdote related to The Last of of Us Part 2. A few years ago, around the films release, I was living in a much more rural part of Japan. A former co-worker of mine, another American, invited to me to his home for a BBQ. I went, and I met his son, who was my age (awkward dynamic to begin with). We had a very casual conversation about videogames, and I mentioned being interested in getting LOTU2 but being dismayed because I didn't have a PS4 at the time, and he suddenly went into a very unhinged rant, spoiling Joel's death, and explicitly blaming feminism for it somehow (?). Like I kid you not he said verbatim, "Games were better when they didn't have feminism in them". It was a big red flag, one thing lead to another, and I quickly realized the co-worker and his family were a weird sect of Christians, all intent on converting me (and Japanese people around them) to whatever weird cult they were in. If you casually mention being interested in something, as a way of making small-talk to pass time with someone you just met, and they go on an unhinged rant, GET AWAY!
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:17 am In regards to the Last of Us Discussion above. Do not click if you're enjoying the TV show and haven't played 2.
Spoiler:
I know that Joel dies, but I have zero context for why it happens or what happens, just that it pissed a lot of people off. I played 1, but not part 2. However, I don't know why it would piss so many people off. The whole series and plot was pretty much centered around people making the best of a bleak reality, and the conclusion of the first game was basically a confirmation that despite best efforts, everyone lives in a harsh and brutal world. Both the TV show and game made it clear that Joel is morally ambiguous and has killed/murdered innocent people before, just to prolong his own existence. I Likewise, there's dozens of times that Joel is put in precarious situations throughout the game. I'm confused why this is an issue, when it's clearly the type of game/media where characters living through to the end is a very unlikely scenario.

Funny enough, I have an interesting anecdote related to The Last of of Us Part 2. A few years ago, around the films release, I was living in a much more rural part of Japan. A former co-worker of mine, another American, invited to me to his home for a BBQ. I went, and I met his son, who was my age (awkward dynamic to begin with). We had a very casual conversation about videogames, and I mentioned being interested in getting LOTU2 but being dismayed because I didn't have a PS4 at the time, and he suddenly went into a very unhinged rant, spoiling Joel's death, and explicitly blaming feminism for it somehow (?). Like I kid you not he said verbatim, "Games were better when they didn't have feminism in them". It was a big red flag, one thing lead to another, and I quickly realized the co-worker and his family were a weird sect of Christians, all intent on converting me (and Japanese people around them) to whatever weird cult they were in. If you casually mention being interested in something, as a way of making small-talk to pass time with someone you just met, and they go on an unhinged rant, GET AWAY!
The answer to the question is simple.
Spoiler:
"Morally ambiguous" characters get way too simplified by their fans as being misunderstood and downplay any of the actually bad/selfish things they do because they like them. You can see this with other characters like Walter White, Dexter or Tony Soprano. As long as fans think you are "cool" and/or have a sad backstory you can get away with literal murder. Course this applies to dudes, try applying this to a female character and you'll get endless whine fests of them being "unlikeable" and ruining the experience or something.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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godjacob wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:21 am The answer to the question is simple.
Spoiler:
"Morally ambiguous" characters get way too simplified by their fans as being misunderstood and downplay any of the actually bad/selfish things they do because they like them. You can see this with other characters like Walter White, Dexter or Tony Soprano.
Spoiler:
Like, Dexter's Laboratory Dexter?
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