Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

For the discussion of Shin Godzilla, Godzilla -1.0, the anime trilogy, Godzilla Singular Point and Toho produced and distributed films after 2015. Includes US movies financed by Toho like Detective Pikachu.
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Dyrakro
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Dyrakro »

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:16 pm If this is your takeaway after what Jomei said, I really don't know what to say.

It's genuinely frustrating how people equate in their minds "Many meeting scenes=bad", and don't move the needle in any productive angle in the discussion. No discussion how rapid fire the scenes are, with fantastic cinemotagraphy, editing, and music to elevate. No discussion and how new information, character development, mystery and drama intersect and disperse these scenes. No mention how it's all rooted in the backdrop of Godzilla attacking, thus providing stakes, and tension to all the scenes. No mention of what is actually being discussed.

Again, I get if people don't like Shin Godzilla, because it's not what they particularly wanted out of a new film. But I'm starting to get annoyed where how people parade it around and act like it's 2 hours of people in a conference, with neutral TV lighting, shot flatly with nothing going on. Things are ALWAYS going on in Shin Godzilla, and each moment is pretty vital in progressing the plot or character development.
This. I feel like Shin Godzilla is a very close spiritual successor to Godzilla 1954 - meaning also it's not that kind of movie you just watch at the go and for the action only. It's a drama taking it's time and shining with it's story, characters and the overall development of it all. Acting like it's a boring and dull movie is just naive. It's a movie not suiting any kind of occassion and mood, but just because it's easier and may seem more fun to watch any other G movie most of the time, that doesn't mean the movie has bad pacing or consists of uninteresting scenes/plots.

if one just wants to see some action and have a some good fun, just go watch Godzilla Final Wars which has rouhly the same duration. Or most of the other Godzilla movies.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Jomei »

LegendZilla wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:32 pm
Jomei wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:41 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:16 pm I've just noticed something about this movie. Shin Godzilla has something in common with the Star Wars prequel trilogy of all things. To be specific, both follow a narrative that puts a heavy emphasis on bureaucratic ineptitude when dealing with crises. The difference is that one gets lauded for it, while the other is one reason why it's mostly criticized. Anyone care to elaborate why that's the case?
It's not what you say. It's how you say it.

It's not the subject that's interesting but the manner of its handling. That's why True Detective can enthrall with a car conversation but [insert your least favorite action sequence here] can bore despite having ostensibly exciting content.

Shin Godzilla isn't lauded simply for including this theme. It's lauded because of the stylish, funny way it explores bureaucratic ineptitude and how it weds that thematic content with its genre.
Were the scenes being as long and drawn out as possible intentional?
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But yes, a good director controls the pacing of scenes to deliberate effect. Not to give Anno toooooo much credit, of course, because other excellent directors have long before used pacing to humorously reveal the inane workings of bureaucracy.
Last edited by Jomei on Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Jetty_Jags »

I'm also confused about the long and drawn-out comments. I rewatched the film about a year ago and was surprised with how brisk I found it to be. It's far from long and drawn out, and there are films that are far slower in pacing, shot composition, and plot development. The way people talk about this film makes it sound like Tarkovsky's Solaris (a film I enjoy btw).
Last edited by Jetty_Jags on Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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Eh, in Legend's defense, pacing can be subjective. Case in point, 65. I felt like it whipped right past and was almost too short. My brother said it felt twice as long as it was. I can definitely see Shin dragging if you aren't engaged with what's going on.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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JAGzilla wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:00 pm Eh, in Legend's defense, pacing can be subjective. Case in point, 65. I felt like it whipped right past and was almost too short. My brother said it felt twice as long as it was. I can definitely see Shin dragging if you aren't engaged with what's going on.
Engagement def affects how pacing feels. There’s an element of pacing that’s more objective, I think, but a lot of it comes down to if you’re really engaged or if you’re bored out of your mind.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by miguelnuva »

My biggest issue with Shin Godzilla isn't the meeting scenes it's that while I won't say something stupid like it's not Godzilla Shin doesn't feel like Godzilla to me. Using Godzilla vs Biollante for an example even when Godzilla is the bad guy and you know he needs to be stopped a part of you still binds and roots for him.

He's like the cool bad guy trope. When I see Shim I feel like this is a new creature that saw Godzilla out at sea and is now trying to turn into Godzilla.

I also got the whole Shin doesn't fit in this world and is in pain angle but like the video I posted last page, even that message kinda gets lost of me when you realize Shin is a God. He can remake himself to better fit the world and he was going to remake the world to better fit him.

He's a true apocalypse, humanity can't learn to live with him, one has to destroy the other. He is for all intensive purposes an angel like Adam and Lilith from Eva.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Dv-218 »

Actually…that is somewhat of a fair point. While I don’t quite dislike it I did feel like the intent to portray Godzilla as both a nuclear aberration deeply rooted in actual dangers of atomic energy and at the same time a divine entity with all sorts of wack, god-like capabilities created a bit of a tonal dissonance at times- which was unsettling, so it succeeded in that regard.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by CyberZilla »

It’s almost like this nuclear aberration creates something that is able to reshape nature around it and usurp humanity’s role in it. Sort of like a twist on the original Godzilla concept as well as that of the Frankenstein novel. It’s an interesting spin on what Godzilla represents for nature and humanity. Almost a funhouse mirror version of humanity where it, too, is able to advance and change, even influence its surroundings, but instead of being human, it’s a creature. Like nature is mocking humanity by having Shin Godzilla evolve and eventually almost take humanoid forms… am I reading too much into this? Maybe. But I like the train of thought.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by ShinGojira14 »

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:16 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:32 pmWere the scenes being as long and drawn out as possible intentional?
If this is your takeaway after what Jomei said, I really don't know what to say.

It's genuinely frustrating how people equate in their minds "Many meeting scenes=bad", and don't move the needle in any productive angle in the discussion. No discussion how rapid fire the scenes are, with fantastic cinemotagraphy, editing, and music to elevate. No discussion and how new information, character development, mystery and drama intersect and disperse these scenes. No mention how it's all rooted in the backdrop of Godzilla attacking, thus providing stakes, and tension to all the scenes. No mention of what is actually being discussed.

Again, I get if people don't like Shin Godzilla, because it's not what they particularly wanted out of a new film. But I'm starting to get annoyed where how people parade it around and act like it's 2 hours of people in a conference, with neutral TV lighting, shot flatly with nothing going on. Things are ALWAYS going on in Shin Godzilla, and each moment is pretty vital in progressing the plot or character development.
I dare say that some of the most ominous scenes of the movie come from the meeting scenes—one in particular detailing Godzilla’s animated severed tissue.

To say nothing of “So what did he do in the end?”
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by ShinGojira14 »

A really interesting idea came to my head:

What if, like the original 1954 film before it, Shin Godzilla branches off into several different continuities, with multiple sequels all exploring their own unique experimental ideas involving what happened after Japan’s first encounter with Godzilla?

Sometimes humanity finds a way to coexist with Godzilla, sometimes they don’t, sometimes Godzilla dies, sometimes Godzilla takes down civilization and terraforms the world into whatever wacky, weird ideas the writer has. Sometimes Godzilla’s the bad guy, sometimes he’s the good guy, sometimes he’s shades of grey in-between. Just use this film as a branching point for different writers to explore and execute a whole number of experimental visions regarding this universe and its incarnation of Godzilla.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Godzilla21 »

I still remember a week or two before the release of the film and it was either Higuchi or Anno saying they were still working on the film in post production and it was taking a while. The fans declared doom and how much of a disaster it was going to be and Toho was just cashing in on the Legendary films.

Then it turned out to be top tier Godzilla.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Jomei »

Then there were the claims of "no advertising" because Toho didn't like the film and wanted to make it tank.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Gojira18 »

I remember (Don't remember if it was Anno or Higuchi) saying they had a lot of pressure to make this a good movie. I'd say they aced it haha
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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Godzilla21 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 7:57 pm I still remember a week or two before the release of the film and it was either Higuchi or Anno saying they were still working on the film in post production and it was taking a while. The fans declared doom and how much of a disaster it was going to be and Toho was just cashing in on the Legendary films.

Then it turned out to be top tier Godzilla.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by LegendZilla »

Does anyone think it would be easier to appreciate and understand this film one sets aside their western-centric perspective of storytelling?
Last edited by LegendZilla on Fri May 19, 2023 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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Why do I feel like this discussion appeared on this thread multiple times already?
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Dv-218 wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 8:57 am Why do I feel like this discussion appeared on this thread multiple times already?
Yeah. I'm personally getting annoyed by it, to the point where I'm just going to ignore it, after this remark. Legendzilla is repeatedly misunderstanding what we are saying, or being purposefully obtuse about it, and just throwing out weird straw men and statements. He's twisting it into some weird thing where people are stating Shin Godzilla is impossible to understand unless you're Japanese, which no one is saying. Really tedious.

I'd like to shift the conversation somewhere else. Because of the upcoming Godzilla film, I've been thinking a lot of specific scenes in Shin Godzilla that stick out to me 7 years (!) later that aren't related to the titular monster. One is when Yaguchi's team assembles. I forget the exact dialogue, but it's something to the effect of, "We've assembled you all, freaks, geeks, public officers etc...". I feel like that's Anno personally calling out his audience, a mainly "otaku" audience or those that are aware of his conventions.

Another moment that strikes out to me is the "Godzilla worshippers" that are chanting outside of the offices while Yaguchi and others are trying to create a solution to stop the monster. That scene reminded me of a moment in Akira, and it also makes the film seem more real and believable.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by MechaGoji Bro7503 »

Alright people, who wants to go steal the Shin Godzilla animatronic with me? Not everyone will make it through Anno's mansion, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 11:31 am Alright people, who wants to go steal the Shin Godzilla animatronic with me? Not everyone will make it through Anno's mansion, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
Just note that if he's not polishing it, it's gonna be just as beat down and broken as a withered FNAF animatronic. :P
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Oh you know I'm in. No way Anno let that boi rot. When are we droppin boys?
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