Random Musings and Factoids Thread

[Janjira-York]

godzilla jr on the 98 series has a few instances of him being on ice, the knife head fight in PR was in alaska too

[LSD Jellyfish]

I was, at the very least, reffering to the "mainline Toho Godzilla entries" and was just pointing out that despite a lot of regions in Japan having extensive amounts of snow, actual snow in Japan in the Japanese theatrical films are exceedingly rare.

[Janjira-York]

oh for sure we have very little ice on the main series.

we need a raids again ending of ice tomb into being reawakened from ice like KKvG

[godjacob]

I always pop for cold fights. Godzilla Raids Again, Son of Godzilla, Godzilla Final Wars and Godzilla King of the Monsters, just really like the idea of a fight or moments on a frozen tundra or a blizzard.

[Breakdown]

Rewatched DAM the other day, and Godzilla actually bites Ghidorah in the back between the right head and wing hard enough to draw blood. At first I thought it may be an SFX error, but that blood splatter is consistently seen from thereon out. Never noticed that before.

[TheLastGezora]

I don't know if this is the right thread for this, but I figured it was the best fit. I found a Baragon sighting in, of all things, Gomer Pyle: USMC. A photograph of Baragon attacking Paris is hanging in a movie theater and the titular character complains that the scene "where the monster eats the Eiffel Tower" wasn't even in the movie.



I was shocked when I first saw this, and I thought that this must have been a production still from Destroy All Monsters, given that it's Baragon in Paris and the episode acknowledges that the scene wasn't in the movie. It blew my mind that this would be known (especially to Americans) back then and figured that somebody in the writer's room must have been a super fan. However, I looked it up and this episode was released in 1966, three years before Destroy All Monsters. Somebody must have taken a picture of Baragon from the then-recently released Frankenstein Conquers The World and superimposed it over Paris for this image. Still an insane coincidence when you consider the Baragon/Gorosaurus mix-up in DAM.

Notably, a photograph from 1961's Mothra also appears in a background shot during this episode, and Gomer Pyle describes a film where "this giant moth attacks Japan", though his description sounds nothing like the plot of Mothra and it's likely the writers never saw the film.

[JAGzilla]

^ That is a wild coincidence. It's also just interesting seeing FCTW, of all movies, referenced in an American production. It was recent at the time, as you said, but still. I'm accustomed to thinking of it as the ultra-obscure sideshow it is today.

[edgaguirus]

Speaking of DAM as well, in the film Rodan falls on Anguirus when the Kilak gas fills the island. In another kaiju mash up called GFW, Anguirus collides with Rodan. In both mash ups they hit each other, but the roles get reversed.

[JAGzilla]

Godzilla didn't really develop a distinct brand or series in Japan* until the 1970s. He had his original film and its direct sequel, GRA, and then that was it for a few years. Toho went in other directions, brought in new characters like Rodan, Varan, the Mysterians, and Mothra to star in their effects movies. Godzilla's next two appearances were in crossover 'vs' movies where he didn't even warrant top billing; King Kong and Mothra were the bigger names at the time, and they were the heroes defeating Godzilla.

The next movie was titled Three Giant Monsters: Earth's Greatest Battle, putting Godzilla on equal footing with Rodan and Mothra. Mega Monster War is an alien invasion movie first, a rehash of The Mysterians with monsters tacked on; Godzilla is equal to Rodan and kind of below Ghidorah in status. After that comes Godzilla, Ebirah, Mothra: Big Duel in the South Seas, which famously uses Godzilla as a last minute replacement for King Kong. Son of Godzilla puts the focus more on Minya. Attack of the Marching Monsters is obviously an ensemble movie with Godzilla as one of the gang. All Monsters Attack is, again, mostly about Minya. And, of course, through the '60s we get a steady supply of other Toho kaiju projects. Atragon, Dogora, Frankenstein vs. Baragon, War of the Gargantuas, King Kong Escapes.

Then things change in the '70s. The focus of each movie is now on Godzilla coming in to beat the new bad guy, maybe with help from a sidekick monster that is pretty clearly beneath Godzilla in status. Jet Jaguar and King Seesar might have dominated the plots of their movies, but they weren't the heroes when push came to shove. By the Heisei series, Godzilla had been reinvented as the center of the kaiju universe.

Obviously the declining state of the Japanese film industry was a factor in this transition. I assume competition with Gamera and Ultraman must have been important, too. They were both clear, central heroes of their respective series, and Godzilla seems to have changed to be more like them. It's pretty sad, even if we got some good movies and monsters out of the deal. It's like if the MCU collapsed inward to make everything about Spider-Man. No more Avengers, no more Guardians of the Galaxy, no more Dr. Strange. Maybe they'll show up in supporting capacities sometimes, but everything begins and ends with Spider-Man. Permanently.

*America, however, seems to have recognized Godzilla as the central figure from early on. Godzilla vs. The Thing, Godzilla vs. Monster Zero, Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster. I wonder if that had any influence over Toho's changing priorities.

[StardustGenius]

I don't think its a 1:1 comparison, but I do get where you are coming from. I do think by the 70s, the branding caught on for sure. Also I suppose over stateside, the movies being on TV for decades probably helped shape the brand identity. A situation where things evolved similarly in two separate environments.

[JVM]

Godzilla didn't really develop a distinct brand or series in Japan* until the 1970s. He had his original film and its direct sequel, GRA, and then that was it for a few years. Toho went in other directions, brought in new characters like Rodan, Varan, the Mysterians, and Mothra to star in their effects movies. Godzilla's next two appearances were in crossover 'vs' movies where he didn't even warrant top billing; King Kong and Mothra were the bigger names at the time, and they were the heroes defeating Godzilla.

The next movie was titled Three Giant Monsters: Earth's Greatest Battle, putting Godzilla on equal footing with Rodan and Mothra. Mega Monster War is an alien invasion movie first, a rehash of The Mysterians with monsters tacked on; Godzilla is equal to Rodan and kind of below Ghidorah in status. After that comes Godzilla, Ebirah, Mothra: Big Duel in the South Seas, which famously uses Godzilla as a last minute replacement for King Kong. Son of Godzilla puts the focus more on Minya. Attack of the Marching Monsters is obviously an ensemble movie with Godzilla as one of the gang. All Monsters Attack is, again, mostly about Minya. And, of course, through the '60s we get a steady supply of other Toho kaiju projects. Atragon, Dogora, Frankenstein vs. Baragon, War of the Gargantuas, King Kong Escapes.

Then things change in the '70s. The focus of each movie is now on Godzilla coming in to beat the new bad guy, maybe with help from a sidekick monster that is pretty clearly beneath Godzilla in status. Jet Jaguar and King Seesar might have dominated the plots of their movies, but they weren't the heroes when push came to shove. By the Heisei series, Godzilla had been reinvented as the center of the kaiju universe.

Obviously the declining state of the Japanese film industry was a factor in this transition. I assume competition with Gamera and Ultraman must have been important, too. They were both clear, central heroes of their respective series, and Godzilla seems to have changed to be more like them. It's pretty sad, even if we got some good movies and monsters out of the deal. It's like if the MCU collapsed inward to make everything about Spider-Man. No more Avengers, no more Guardians of the Galaxy, no more Dr. Strange. Maybe they'll show up in supporting capacities sometimes, but everything begins and ends with Spider-Man. Permanently.

*America, however, seems to have recognized Godzilla as the central figure from early on. Godzilla vs. The Thing, Godzilla vs. Monster Zero, Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster. I wonder if that had any influence over Toho's changing priorities.

Great observations here. I think for me, that's a huge reason the early Showa series remains fascinating -- nothing feels so "purpose-built" as in the later films, and it feels like we're seeing a lot of major characters on close to equal footing rather than an obvious hierarchy. Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster feels like a bonafide crossover event put into historical context, something I imagine it loses to people who are used to viewing Mothra and Rodan as sidekicks. I also feel there's almost... less of a sense Godzilla is permanent and invincible when it feels like there are other monsters who might defend Earth at his side. The world feels bigger, and it doesn't feel like one hero's story. Incidentally, I think that's a huge reason I was drawn to Marvel. It didn't have to feel like it ended with one character. The spirit of cooperation in three of the five '70s films manages to preserve this sense of the universe, even as billing becomes more obvious, and ToMG feels somewhat more personal to offset it.

Godzilla vs. Hedorah, for how '70 it is, feels like the taste of what's to come in pitting Godzilla solo against a very purpose-built enemy.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

Since I don't count this as a confession or think it would be particularly unpopular, I'll just put this here.

Shin Godzilla is arguably the most culturally relevant Godzilla film since King Kong vs Godzilla back in 1962. Guess you could maybe argue Godzilla 98 but not sure if most would bother.

[JAGzilla]

The current wave of kaiju movies is monumentally significant in a way we aren't appreciating: it's the last. Take a good look around, boys. Enjoy your Shin and Monsterverse and crappy anime series. Cherish them. It's very possible that nothing like them, not in the current configuration, will ever exist again.

I was watching a new video by Joe Scott on YouTube, about the future of AI. That's obviously a ubiquitous topic right now, but he brought up something I hadn't considered: AI generated movies and TV shows. A program is coming, most likely well inside the next five years, that will allow anyone to type a prompt and have AI spit out a full length movie. Instantly. Probably for free. Think about the implications of that. What that's going to do to the entertainment industry and fandoms. When your mom says you can't go see the new Godzilla movie because we have new Godzilla movies at home, it will actually be true. They'll suck at first, but they'll be fully customizable. You don't want to put up with the boring people scenes? You don't have to anymore.

[Gigantis]

The current wave of kaiju movies is monumentally significant in a way we aren't appreciating: it's the last. Take a good look around, boys. Enjoy your Shin and Monsterverse and crappy anime series. Cherish them. It's very possible that nothing like them, not in the current configuration, will ever exist again.

I was watching a new video by Joe Scott on YouTube, about the future of AI. That's obviously a ubiquitous topic right now, but he brought up something I hadn't considered: AI generated movies and TV shows. A program is coming, most likely well inside the next five years, that will allow anyone to type a prompt and have AI spit out a full length movie. Instantly. Probably for free. Think about the implications of that. What that's going to do to the entertainment industry and fandoms. When your mom says you can't go see the new Godzilla movie because we have new Godzilla movies at home, it will actually be true. They'll suck at first, but they'll be fully customizable. You don't want to put up with the boring people scenes? You don't have to anymore.

You're only considering AI movies and shows now? People were kind of talking about that for a while.

Quite honestly, I'm still not expecting AI films to be anything beyond "passable", even if they wind up turning out to be good enough that the scripts they write can genuinely work. Nearly every time a plot is written by ChatGPT or whatever, it lacks the same... spark, or something that human films always have, even the ones that are terrible. It's like a good movie is THERE, but there's something constantly missing that drags down the experience.

[JAGzilla]

It's going to be a long time before AI can make a good movie. If it will ever be able to. That requires some actual understanding of art. All I'm worried about for now is that it can slap together something good enough and the novelty and convenience will yank people away from conventional media. This is going to be a big step towards that future dystopia scenario where everyone can just retreat into their personalized VR bubble and not have to deal with the imperfections of the real world.

[John Pannozzi]

The current wave of kaiju movies is monumentally significant in a way we aren't appreciating: it's the last. Take a good look around, boys. Enjoy your Shin and Monsterverse and crappy anime series. Cherish them. It's very possible that nothing like them, not in the current configuration, will ever exist again.

I was watching a new video by Joe Scott on YouTube, about the future of AI. That's obviously a ubiquitous topic right now, but he brought up something I hadn't considered: AI generated movies and TV shows. A program is coming, most likely well inside the next five years, that will allow anyone to type a prompt and have AI spit out a full length movie. Instantly. Probably for free. Think about the implications of that. What that's going to do to the entertainment industry and fandoms. When your mom says you can't go see the new Godzilla movie because we have new Godzilla movies at home, it will actually be true. They'll suck at first, but they'll be fully customizable. You don't want to put up with the boring people scenes? You don't have to anymore.

I have to imagine that Toho would try to crack down on Ai-generated Godzilla movies made without their permission, so things might not quite proceed like you're picturing.

[LSD Jellyfish]

This is why what is going on with the Writer's Guild Strike is very important. Standards on using AI need to be established in creative mediums. I'll say that if I find out something is written by AI, I have zero interest in watching or supporting it, regardless of quality. Part of the reason why I like art is the human intent and what led to it's creation. It's why were are fascinated by figures and careers of Honda and Tsubaraya.

[StardustGenius]

I have little interest in AI generated images, be they movies, animation, and far less AI generated stories. WGA has my support in this strike.

[CyberZilla]

Well, that whole bit about enjoy this era while it lasts felt very defeatist. Maybe you didn’t mean it to the extreme that I interpreted it, JAGzilla, because it is indeed a fair warning about the future of filmmaking to consider what AI brings to the table. If anything it may bring more opportunities for these kinds of films to be made. It’s a big fat question mark right now. We just don’t know. Hopefully this WGA strike (definitely supporting!) will help set some guidelines, boundaries, and whatnot. At the end of the day, AI is going to be a tool, and like any tool, it vastly depends on who’s wielding it and for what purpose it is used.

[JAGzilla]

Well, that whole bit about enjoy this era while it lasts felt very defeatist. Maybe you didn’t mean it to the extreme that I interpreted it, JAGzilla, because it is indeed a fair warning about the future of filmmaking to consider what AI brings to the table.

No, I meant it. I get the feeling this is very quickly going to become one of those situations where once the genie is out of the bottle, and it already is, you can't put it back in. We're already struggling to make sense of the internet, smart phones, social media, streaming services, and video sites like YT or TikTok. The sudden spread of technology that can create and make things on its own with minimal human input and little to no pay or resources required is going to be too much to handle, I think, at least in the short term. We'll probably reign it in and restore a semblance of tradition at some point, but not before a lot of damage is done.

I'd love to be wrong, of course.