Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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godjacob
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by godjacob »

HedorahIsBestGirl wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:06 am She definitely died. The credits just showed footage of all the kaiju from the film, some of which was unused footage (like with Hedorah).
It's actually unclear if the shot at the end with Mothra is just random stock or meant to indicate she survived and is returning to Infant Island. It isn't conclusive.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by MogeGoji1994 »

Considering the footage at the end of the film showcases all the actors smiling and waving, as opposed to the Xiliens just being villainous, as well as the final climactic shots of Godzilla at the end, I always interpreted the final Mothra shot as at the very least showing that in the end of this movie's story/universe, she will continue to live on, as she always does, or just flat out survived somehow, as that would be a happy ending.

Further, it feels weird that they would make the point of not killing Anguirus, Rodan, and King Caesar because they were Godzilla's allies only to kill Mothra in a CGI fireball.

Lastly, that shot of her is definitely with that specific Mothra puppet, which was also used in Tokyo SOS. I don't recall Tokyo SOS heavily featuring Infant Island, and more importantly, most of the movie is one fight and Mothra was planned to die at the end, so there would likely not have gone to the effort to film that shot, meaning it must have been shot for FW. So it was at least bare minimum planned for Mothra to survive FW, if not outright implied or shown
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by HedorahIsBestGirl »

Even if Mothra did somehow resurrect, the film treated her takedown of Gigan as a sacrificial death. Which wasn't moving because Mothra was in the movie for about a minute, and also had already blown up twice in the past three years.

I stand by what I said. Mothra gets blown up too damn much lately, and her death in RoM was handled much better than her various fiery demises in the last twenty-three years of Godzilla media.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Legion1979 »

There's a shot of Hedorah during the credits, a monster that was definitely blown to kingdom come earlier in the film. So I don't know why anything would take the credits as being canon to the films story.

Mothra was blown up in GMK abd Tokyo SOS. Why would it be hard for anyone to believe the same was true for this movie as well? How exactly would Mothra even come back from her finishing move against Gigan anyway?

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Mothra’s death in GFW was most likely intended to be an allusion to the Phoenix, a creature that continually dies and is resurrected and continually reborn. It’s not something that was in the original film, or even the 1964 film, but it’s definitely something GFW leaned into at the very least. Mothra died at the end of GFW, but worrying about Mothra living (or not) is sort of a nonissue: of course in pretty much entry/continuity with Mothra, maybe sans GMK, Mothra will be reborn and continue to exist on in some capacity.

Mothra is another monster that I completely forget is in GFW. I remember she swoops in and knocks Monster X and Gigan over, and then kamikazes Gigan. It’s painfully short and really they should’ve focused more on the 2v2 before separating the monsters.

It’s pretty clear that a lot of footage in the credits from GFW was cut footage, or at least B-roll, which doesn’t mean anything. Hedorah’s brief shots was most likely intended to be during the the big “monster rampage montage” or right before Ebirah is blasted into it (id need to check the buildings in the background to know conclusively). It wouldn’t surprise me if at one point Mothra was intended to make it out alive, but someone realized how stupid and nonsensical it was. The only other thing to soft-support this is a MMS figure, of “Fire Mothra”. Perhaps at one point, Mothra is as able to transform/harness the fire, and dive bomb Gigan with force, still killing him, but allowing Mothra to live, sort of similar to how the Fire Dragon worked in DAM. That would also be another half-assed reference in the film. However someone probably realized this was too sudden and stupid, so they left it as is.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:40 pm The only other thing to soft-support this is a MMS figure, of “Fire Mothra”. Perhaps at one point, Mothra is as able to transform/harness the fire, and dive bomb Gigan with force, still killing him, but allowing Mothra to live, sort of similar to how the Fire Dragon worked in DAM. That would also be another half-assed reference in the film. However someone probably realized this was too sudden and stupid, so they left it as is.
Please don’t take this paragraph too seriously. I don’t want people suddenly quoting me and saying LSD THINKS THAT FIRE MOTHRA IS CUT CONTENT
To be fair, "Fire Mothra" is a popular theory I've seen crop up in the fandom. It's been used as an attack in fan-made games and gets argued for as being a special power in FMs. I'd be curious to see what Toho's official word on it is.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by edgaguirus »

Just looking at the scene it's clear that Mothra died in that last attack.

The Fire Mothra thing may also be influenced by the shot of Mothra leaving her island. She flies out of the mountain as a streak of light that solidifies as the big moth. I can see how that could convince some that Mothra might be able to use energy and fire, and later be seen going back to the island.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by MechaGoji Bro7503 »

I'll just DM Ryuhei Kitamura on Instagram to find the truth about "Fire Mothra" :P
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:49 pm I'll just DM Ryuhei Kitamura on Instagram to find the truth about "Fire Mothra" :P
Oh that's pretty cool!
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster's kinda weak compared to stuff from the previous, or immediate years

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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StardustGenius wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:43 am Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster's kinda weak compared to stuff from the previous, or immediate years
For clarification, does this mean A) just the Godzilla films that preceded it or B) all of the Toho sci-fi films from the 50s and early 60s? If it's A, I agree with you, though I still hold Ghidorah in higher regards than most following Godzilla films. If it's B, I disagree.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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StardustGenius wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:43 am Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster's kinda weak compared to stuff from the previous, or immediate years
Okay I know this site has a "actually Ebirah is underrated" attitude but if you are honestly trying to suggest it is a better film than Ghidorah than I cry heresy.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Legion1979 »

Man, that's an interesting opinion that really needs some elaboration.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by StardustGenius »

That period of the early to mid 60s was Toho's finest era of making sci-fi content. Monster Zero used a "less is more" take compared to Ghidorah, focusing on more interesting characters, which is why I found it a more interesting and better film. Frankenstein was also a year later, and I found it better for those reasons. Mothra vs Godzilla, Matango, The Last War, and Gorath I found to be more impressive on either the character, or technical level compared to Ghidorah. I like Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster. I just think its weak compared to the other movies of this period. Also, I just like Yosuke Natsuki a bit more in Siege Of Fort Bismark than here (though he did great).

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by HedorahIsBestGirl »

StardustGenius wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:52 am Monster Zero used a "less is more" take compared to Ghidorah, focusing on more interesting characters, which is why I found it a more interesting and better film.
I prefer Ghidorah's characters over Monster Zero's, which is probably an unpopular opinion. Shindo and Naoko have a believable sibling dynamic, and Princess Salno's possession was interesting; I find all of them more engaging than the main cast of MZ. Glenn is most memorable for being one of the only American protagonists in a Toho sci-fi film while Fuji's character can be boiled down to "I don't like my sister's boyfriend." Then there's Namikawa; the "tragedy" of her death feels unearned because she received no character development and very little screentime. That scene is well-acted - in fact, all of the cast do a respectable job throughout - but I never felt a real connection to Namikawa or Glenn, so it didn't have the impact it should've. I was much more invested in Shindo and Naoko's efforts to protect Salno and get to the bottom of her trance-like behavior than I was in any of the "human stuff" going on in MZ. On a technical level, though, I do think Monster Zero has slightly more impressive effects than Ghidorah does.
Last edited by HedorahIsBestGirl on Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by StardustGenius »

I think GTTHM has more ambitious effects than Monster Zero, but Monster Zero pulled off smaller set pieces a lot better. Planet X fight looks great. That isn't to say GTTHM didn't have any, I like the brief harbor shot, and Gravity Beam spam. That cut dock sequence looked really damn good. See Godzilla's scale real well next to those ships in the harbor.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Legion1979 »

HedorahIsBestGirl wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:08 am Glenn is most memorable for being one of the only American protagonists in a Toho sci-fi film
Wait what? Dogora, Frankenstein, Gargantuas, King Kong Escapes and Latitude Zero all have at least one American actor in a lead role.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by StardustGenius »

Nick Adams is just too memorable. I wish they had brought him back for more. All three of his Toho genre outings were better because of him. If someone can track down The Killing Bottle, please watch it. It's real fun!
Last edited by StardustGenius on Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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I tend to be more biased for GHidorah over Invasion of the Astro Monster just cause of Ghidorah's characterization. Invasion began the trend of "mind control stooge" that would define Ghidorah through the rest of the Showa Films and I've never been a fan of that characterization.

I do agree that GTTHM's human cast is underrated even if I think IOTAM has a stronger human cast.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by StardustGenius »

GTTHM's ensemble cast feels like a proto Toho disaster movie (nothing wrong with that, and again I said I liked this movie). Back in those days you had to squeeze as much star power as you could into these movies to get a draw (Takashi Shimura's casting here, for example!). And that ensemble cast feel is also why I feel Toho should have got Rikidozan for at least one Godzilla movie while he was still alive! Back to the issue, I like a smaller more focused crew in MZ/IOTAM more.

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